No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--will-pats-later-sign-emmanuel-sanders-to-longer-deal--210519500.html;_ylt=AuwgbQuYLK9sFv_MJdcJNbU5nYcB;_ylu=X3oDMTQ0aThqN20wBG1pdANGRUFUVVJFRCBNZWdhdHJvbiBTUE9SVFMgRlAEcGtnAzE0NjQ3YWYyLWNhYTMtMzdlYS04NTk4LTA5OWVlMmM3ZjJjZARwb3MDMgRzZWMDbWVnYXRyb24EdmVyAzkwNmI1MTQzLWEyMjgtMTFlMi04YmZmLTg3N2E0ZGRmYTJjNg--;_ylg=X3oDMTFpNzk0NjhtBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3

     

    Maybe I missed it amongst the almost 200 posts over 2 other threads, but Jason Cole makes some fantastic points.

    The biggest being that the Pats could, and likely, have a long-term deal in place. There is no language in the CBA prohibiting it. 'Poison Pills' like the NYJ used with Martin, and MIN used with Hutchinson a few years back ARE illegal (Hutchinson's was comical - MIN offered the tender, and it said if played 2 HOME games in the state of WA, he would get an insane bonus).

    Basically, a long-term deal may be more attractive for the Steelers franchise, but the one-year tender makes it extremely uncomfortable for them to do so for 2013, and offers no guarantees for 2014 and beyond.

    I agree totally. BB is not giving up a 3rd round pick for one year of a player who is unproven...he'd simply draft a guy if that's what he wanted, and keep him for 4 seasons.

    I think people will look back at this and say "HA! BB did it AGAIN!"

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    The Pats used a poison pill with Welker. Kraft felt bad and gave Hizinga a seventh rounder along with the second rounder.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    yep they did Phil but poison pills are now illegal with the new CBA.

    Yeah it was a smart move but it wouldn't be the first time BB used a draft pick for a single years worth production. I'm hoping they have a handshack agreement but how the tender works I'm not sure they can extend him this year after he signs they might have to wait until next offseason to do a deal. I forget the specific rules for RFA signings and time wise so that teams can't do specifically what the Pats are doing. Overall Sanders would be a very good #2 WR, if he understands the system, and by the contract and pick given up that's about his value in both cases. I just hope this doesn't prevent them from targetting another X wr in the draft or better yet a Z

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    I think he def. had a verbal agreement for multi year deal and the 1 year offer is just so Pitt cant match it.

    I think BB's statement was very telling and on par with what I said earlier. When you are evaluating a player already in the NFL it is much easier to project him into your system, when you can see him running NFL routes against NFL defenders. The learning curve for a rookie is so much greater that you could draft a better prospect but it may take 3 years for him to get up to speed where as the other guys just needs to learn YOUR system but knows how to play in the NFL. This is esp. true with Wideouts and even more true with the Pats system known for being hard to grasp and our bad luck drafting, this is no brainer

    Only question now is if BB feels comfy with this group. 2 stud TE's, with a plethora of # 2 type wideouts that can play inside and out. I actually like it because its what we had in the SB years. Some fans still want that 1st rd WR, but I actually think it should all or mostly defense from here on out. Health is what is needed on our WR corp now , so just pray for that. No need to get a prima donna 1st rd pick to mess up chemistry and demand touches.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    I think he def. had a verbal agreement for multi year deal and the 1 year offer is just so Pitt cant match it.

    I think BB's statement was very telling and on par with what I said earlier. When you are evaluating a player already in the NFL it is much easier to project him into your system, when you can see him running NFL routes against NFL defenders. The learning curve for a rookie is so much greater that you could draft a better prospect but it may take 3 years for him to get up to speed where as the other guys just needs to learn YOUR system but knows how to play in the NFL. This is esp. true with Wideouts and even more true with the Pats system known for being hard to grasp and our bad luck drafting, this is no brainer

    Only question now is if BB feels comfy with this group. 2 stud TE's, with a plethora of # 2 type wideouts that can play inside and out. I actually like it because its what we had in the SB years. Some fans still want that 1st rd WR, but I actually think it should all or mostly defense from here on out. Health is what is needed on our WR corp now , so just pray for that. No need to get a prima donna 1st rd pick to mess up chemistry and demand touches.




    Agreed. Take 2 DT's with 1 and 2 if theres good ones there. We're going to need them in a few years. If its rich now grab them. IMO a good D line makes the rest of the D look a lot better.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    The more I learn about the BB offer the more I absolutely agree - this is classic BB.  Places the Steelers in a very tough spot in order to match.  Wouldn't surpise me at all if the time lag between Sanders initial visit to the NE and the actual offer wasn't Sanders agent and the Pats working out the details of a longer term deal.

    I am also warming to the composition of the receiver corps should Sanders end up in a Pats uniform.  Lots of quality targets for TB providing they can keep everyone reasonably healthy.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now..."

    NOT TRUE. This from reiss this morning "This reminds me of the 2004 offer sheet that Steelers restricted free agent defensive lineman Rodney Bailey signed with the Patriots (one year, $1.3 million, $650,000 guaranteed). The Steelers didn’t match and received the Patriots’ sixth-round draft choice in return."

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    Wait - where's Russ with a statement about Belichick waiting in the weeds?

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    I think he def. had a verbal agreement for multi year deal and the 1 year offer is just so Pitt cant match it.

    I think BB's statement was very telling and on par with what I said earlier. When you are evaluating a player already in the NFL it is much easier to project him into your system, when you can see him running NFL routes against NFL defenders.

     




    That's correct but RKrap is on the other Sanders thread saying it's dumb because the draft is WR rich. lol

     

     

     



    And our scouting dept. has been broke for quite some time. Money Mouth   I'll take the sure shot over potential All Day.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    I think Pitt can match this deal if they want to. It is in the range where they probably don't like either option - matching or taking the draft pick - but 2.5M or really the extra 1M above their original offer is not something that will prevent them from matching and at the moment they can match without any adjustments to other contracts. They are going to have to make some adjustments anyway, so it is nothing new, just adds a small amount to the total adjustment they need to make.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    And our scouting dept. has been broke for quite some time. Money Mouth   I'll take the sure shot over potential All Day.

     



    With the Pats, no WR is a sure shot. For some reason they just have issues evaluating WR's in general. Combine that with Brady not giving looks and developing players if they don't immediately click and I think it's an all around failure. Not ragging on Brady, but he does have a tendency to stop giving players looks if early in the season they drop a couple of balls or don't have the instant mind meld. Even if they are seasoned vets

    I do think Sanders has a better shot of meshing. Don't forget though, Sanders was also a player they heavily looked at before the draft and if not for a WR run I think he was someone the Pats would have drafted over Price. So, I wouldn't discount that sure shot over potential yet.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BuzyDizzyIzzy. Show BuzyDizzyIzzy's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    There are very few RFA's signed because teams normally value cap savings and draft picks vs. a higher dollar signing for a player that may or may not work out.

     

       But this year's draft class is TERRIBLE........I think the Patriots have known that for a few years too.........notice how they basically dumped off half their draft picks THIS YEAR for veteran players from the past few years, even though alot of em didnt work out? IMO they also feel the same way about this draft class. It SUCKS. So they probably feel the benefit/reward for sanders and a modest offer far outvalues their 3rd round pick.

     

       I personally think that if they don't get Sanders, then they should seriously consider trading out their top 3 picks this year IF they don't get who they specifically target for draft picks in NEXT year's draft class which will have ALOT more talent.

     

       Now that the Deannrd issue is resolved in the Patriots favor, IMO they only have 2-3 DEPTH holes to fill, 2 of which can be filled in via a veteran free agent signing.

     

      Load up the draft picks for next year, when they will be alot more valuable to the Patriots. This year, they really don't need much so don't waste picks if the talent they are targeting is not there.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    I think he def. had a verbal agreement for multi year deal and the 1 year offer is just so Pitt cant match it.

    I think BB's statement was very telling and on par with what I said earlier. When you are evaluating a player already in the NFL it is much easier to project him into your system, when you can see him running NFL routes against NFL defenders.

     




    That's correct but RKrap is on the other Sanders thread saying it's dumb because the draft is WR rich. lol

     

     

     

     



    And our scouting dept. has been broke for quite some time. Money Mouth   I'll take the sure shot over potential All Day.

     

     




    It's not scouting. It's Brady's incredibly high threshold for "trust" and our complex offense which makes the jump for a college player so intense. Some of it is on Brady, too.  He can't be off in LA all offseason with new picks or FAs in here.

    I'd rather they go mid rounds to try to bring a guy along the first year on the back end of the roster, keep burying one on the PS, and do that v.s. hoping a phsically gifted player from the NCAA works in RD 2 or 3, this year's draft not necessarily withstanding.

     

    Hence, why this approach with Sanders is a good one.   I wish we could bid on a FA WR ever 2-3 years too, but BB will never do that for obvious reasons.

    The only other option would be a trade, which we know he's done. 

    Lloyd is the only example in FA in recent years and he took less to play here. 

    One from FA, one likely in the draft, probably early. Plus, you need younger vets to bring the draft pick along anyway.

    If the offseason at WR is Amendola, Donald Jones, Michael Jenkins, Sanders and DeAndre Hopkins, call me a very happy Pats fan.



    I dont want to go down this road really, but IMO, yes Patseng is right, They have had problems in general. I am not gonna put it all on Brady but I believe he is to blame on GAME Days! Brady is a great QB, but he isnt payed to coach. So  I blame Brady only for having tunnell vision during games but really he hasnt had much options so can I really get mad at him for Ocho cathing 9 balls when he was taken off the field after every catch? was that Brady changing personell? NO. So now back to Russ' point. He said its not scouting but thats false because why didnt Chad Jackson catch on in any other offense?? I think  its very hard to ask a WR to be able to read defenses like a QB coming out of college. I could evne point to Rusty in the past saying Pitts offense was Simple and if so, why would Sanders fit right  in. Dont discount personality and ability to mesh on the field as well. Brady to Wes was great but would it have been if They werent Great Friends?!?! 

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    In response to BuzyDizzyIzzy's comment:

    There are very few RFA's signed because teams normally value cap savings and draft picks vs. a higher dollar signing for a player that may or may not work out.

     

       But this year's draft class is TERRIBLE........I think the Patriots have known that for a few years too.........notice how they basically dumped off half their draft picks THIS YEAR for veteran players from the past few years, even though alot of em didnt work out? IMO they also feel the same way about this draft class. It SUCKS. So they probably feel the benefit/reward for sanders and a modest offer far outvalues their 3rd round pick.

     

       I personally think that if they don't get Sanders, then they should seriously consider trading out their top 3 picks this year IF they don't get who they specifically target for draft picks in NEXT year's draft class which will have ALOT more talent.

     

       Now that the Deannrd issue is resolved in the Patriots favor, IMO they only have 2-3 DEPTH holes to fill, 2 of which can be filled in via a veteran free agent signing.

     

      Load up the draft picks for next year, when they will be alot more valuable to the Patriots. This year, they really don't need much so don't waste picks if the talent they are targeting is not there.



    Not sure where you feel the draft is terrible. From everything I see it's one of the best drafts for WR's and CB's in day 2. The top end talent is extremely weak but that day 2 talent and mid level talent is pretty deep. Now mind you most if not all of these guys won't be pro-bowlers but they all have the potential to be #1's or at least solid #2's. Sanders looks like a solid #2 and they liked him in the 10' draft so it makes sense given the late 3rd pick they had but this draft doesn't suck and those mid round picks they spent? I'd much rather have guys with potential on the team right now they the lot they got for those picks, wouldn't you?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    I think he def. had a verbal agreement for multi year deal and the 1 year offer is just so Pitt cant match it.

    I think BB's statement was very telling and on par with what I said earlier. When you are evaluating a player already in the NFL it is much easier to project him into your system, when you can see him running NFL routes against NFL defenders.

     




    That's correct but RKrap is on the other Sanders thread saying it's dumb because the draft is WR rich. lol

     

     

     

     



    And our scouting dept. has been broke for quite some time. Money Mouth   I'll take the sure shot over potential All Day.

     

     




    It's not scouting. It's Brady's incredibly high threshold for "trust" and our complex offense which makes the jump for a college player so intense. Some of it is on Brady, too.  He can't be off in LA all offseason with new picks or FAs in here.

    I'd rather they go mid rounds to try to bring a guy along the first year on the back end of the roster, keep burying one on the PS, and do that v.s. hoping a phsically gifted player from the NCAA works in RD 2 or 3, this year's draft not necessarily withstanding.

     

    Hence, why this approach with Sanders is a good one.   I wish we could bid on a FA WR ever 2-3 years too, but BB will never do that for obvious reasons.

    The only other option would be a trade, which we know he's done. 

    Lloyd is the only example in FA in recent years and he took less to play here. 

    One from FA, one likely in the draft, probably early. Plus, you need younger vets to bring the draft pick along anyway.

    If the offseason at WR is Amendola, Donald Jones, Michael Jenkins, Sanders and DeAndre Hopkins, call me a very happy Pats fan.

     



    I dont want to go down this road really, but IMO, yes Patseng is right, They have had problems in general. I am not gonna put it all on Brady but I believe he is to blame on GAME Days! Brady is a great QB, but he isnt payed to coach. So  I blame Brady only for having tunnell vision during games but really he hasnt had much options so can I really get mad at him for Ocho cathing 9 balls when he was taken off the field after every catch? was that Brady changing personell? NO. So now back to Russ' point. He said its not scouting but thats false because why didnt Chad Jackson catch on in any other offense?? I think  its very hard to ask a WR to be able to read defenses like a QB coming out of college. I could evne point to Rusty in the past saying Pitts offense was Simple and if so, why would Sanders fit right  in. Dont discount personality and ability to mesh on the field as well. Brady to Wes was great but would it have been if They werent Great Friends?!?! 

     

     



    Regarding Chad Jackson, BB went around the scouting's recommendation on that one with the Urban Meyer thing.  So, that's on BB.

     

    I never said Pitt's offense was simple under Arians.  I actually think Haley's is a bit more involved than Arian's, and more comparable to ours, so they're probably looking at a lot of game film from him in 2012.

    But, yes, I think Arian's offense is pretty basic.

    I've said this before here, but I would be looking at only high IQ guys in the draft. I don't care if they have Moss like freakish abiltities, if the football IQ isn't there, no drive to get better, etc, then just stay away.

    People can mock the Donald Jones signing all day, but if you look at his scouting report, the first thing that is mentiond is football IQ.

     



    Yea I still think BB got enamored by watching too many Florida practices and went crazy thinking they were all NFL ready but I do appreciate him getting Spikes and Hernandez.

    I actually like the D.Jones signing. This is because I am projecting his skillset here, not his numbers while playing with a QB who was just dumped a year into a big contract. We saw the Gaffney affect and I think if Jones is healthy he may have the biggest Impact due to his I.Q. unless Amendolas limited time with Josh gives him that leg up, but good thing is all these WRs are interchangable and not one trick ponies.

    Just like the 03 WR corps

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BuzyDizzyIzzy. Show BuzyDizzyIzzy's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to BuzyDizzyIzzy's comment:

     

    There are very few RFA's signed because teams normally value cap savings and draft picks vs. a higher dollar signing for a player that may or may not work out.

     

       But this year's draft class is TERRIBLE........I think the Patriots have known that for a few years too.........notice how they basically dumped off half their draft picks THIS YEAR for veteran players from the past few years, even though alot of em didnt work out? IMO they also feel the same way about this draft class. It SUCKS. So they probably feel the benefit/reward for sanders and a modest offer far outvalues their 3rd round pick.

     

       I personally think that if they don't get Sanders, then they should seriously consider trading out their top 3 picks this year IF they don't get who they specifically target for draft picks in NEXT year's draft class which will have ALOT more talent.

     

       Now that the Deannrd issue is resolved in the Patriots favor, IMO they only have 2-3 DEPTH holes to fill, 2 of which can be filled in via a veteran free agent signing.

     

      Load up the draft picks for next year, when they will be alot more valuable to the Patriots. This year, they really don't need much so don't waste picks if the talent they are targeting is not there.

     




    It's a fairly deep draft, so I am not sure the word should be terrible. I think if you're a team that stinks and is rebuilding, it's actially a great draft to pull a lot of good talent from at once.

     

    DT and WR is petty deep.

    QB is awful, yes.

    If you have a 5 pick or 40, it's essentially the same talent, so if that is "terrible", then I agree.

     

    BIg misconception that this is a deep draft.....as I previously stated MOST of the 1st/2nd round picks this year would be at best mid round picks last year. And the mid to back end draft picks? Alot would be undrafted free agents if they were in last years class or some of the other notable strong draft classes from the past. I have watched alot of college ball this past winter/fall. Not very many impressive players. But compared to last years top 64 picks, I count only 7 from this years class that I would have taken in the first round or 2 from last year.


     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    I think he def. had a verbal agreement for multi year deal and the 1 year offer is just so Pitt cant match it.

    I think BB's statement was very telling and on par with what I said earlier. When you are evaluating a player already in the NFL it is much easier to project him into your system, when you can see him running NFL routes against NFL defenders.

     




    That's correct but RKrap is on the other Sanders thread saying it's dumb because the draft is WR rich. lol

     

     

     

     



    And our scouting dept. has been broke for quite some time. Money Mouth   I'll take the sure shot over potential All Day.

     

     




    It's not scouting. It's Brady's incredibly high threshold for "trust" and our complex offense which makes the jump for a college player so intense. Some of it is on Brady, too.  He can't be off in LA all offseason with new picks or FAs in here.

    I'd rather they go mid rounds to try to bring a guy along the first year on the back end of the roster, keep burying one on the PS, and do that v.s. hoping a phsically gifted player from the NCAA works in RD 2 or 3, this year's draft not necessarily withstanding.

     

    Hence, why this approach with Sanders is a good one.   I wish we could bid on a FA WR ever 2-3 years too, but BB will never do that for obvious reasons.

    The only other option would be a trade, which we know he's done. 

    Lloyd is the only example in FA in recent years and he took less to play here. 

    One from FA, one likely in the draft, probably early. Plus, you need younger vets to bring the draft pick along anyway.

    If the offseason at WR is Amendola, Donald Jones, Michael Jenkins, Sanders and DeAndre Hopkins, call me a very happy Pats fan.

     



    I dont want to go down this road really, but IMO, yes Patseng is right, They have had problems in general. I am not gonna put it all on Brady but I believe he is to blame on GAME Days! Brady is a great QB, but he isnt payed to coach. So  I blame Brady only for having tunnell vision during games but really he hasnt had much options so can I really get mad at him for Ocho cathing 9 balls when he was taken off the field after every catch? was that Brady changing personell? NO. So now back to Russ' point. He said its not scouting but thats false because why didnt Chad Jackson catch on in any other offense?? I think  its very hard to ask a WR to be able to read defenses like a QB coming out of college. I could evne point to Rusty in the past saying Pitts offense was Simple and if so, why would Sanders fit right  in. Dont discount personality and ability to mesh on the field as well. Brady to Wes was great but would it have been if They werent Great Friends?!?! 

     



    I am not on another thread saying it is dumb...

    I questioned trading a 3rd rounder for Sanders if the deal is for 1 year

    I also questioned if signing Sanders for 3/$10-$12 with $4 guaranteed is a good idea based on the scout reports and his production for the Steelers.

    If the draft was not WR rich, I can understand...but the Pats can get a stud WR for much less that Sanders is commanding

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: No RFA has EVER been signed to a one-year offer! Until now...

    I keep coming back to this - if the Steelers wanted him back then tender him at the 2nd rd. level and make it less likely that he signs an offer sheet.  A 3rd for a WR entering his prime years is not a bad deal, esp. if they rip up the contract and sign him to a loner tersm, team-friendly deal.  Given that Sanders has been relatively productive the contract and pick are a worthy gamble to get a guy with some upside. 

    If the Steelers don't match, the sad part is that a number of posters here are gonna be all over BB the first time he has a bad game.  I can hear it now! 

     

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