Ocho is here to stay

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ocho is here to stay : Did Hannah have Kraft owning the team and BB running things? lol Comparing a Sullivan/rotating GM and coach context to what Brady has had here, is ludicrous. My god, dude.  Hannah is WIDELY considered, hands down, the best OL in NFL history. As much as I love Brady, he's not widely considered the best. Many would say Otto Graham, Montana, Peyton Manning, Dan Marino and so forth.  If he had a better postseason this year, you might have more of a leg to stand on with your premise. Only Brady can control how his legacy holds up.  He's had 2 chances to make your statement pretty much a fact.   Unfortunately, right now, he's in no way definitively the best QB ever.  Stinks to admit, but I care more about the team than just Brady anyway.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    Brady will end his career as at least a top 5 QB, maybe top 3. He is top 7 right now.

    The top 10-12 QB's of all time all deserve a higher place on the 'greatest ever' lists than even the best O-lineman ever. Sorry to burst your bubble on that.

    but the experts who made the definitive documentary on the top 100 players ever TWO years ago already knew Brady was ahead of Hannah. Now the gap has widened as he had two of the greatest years by any QB EVER since that list came out.

    Attempting to prop Hannah up with the weak 'GM/ownership/coaches around him were bad' is grasping at straws and the type of excuse-making those who have already lost an argument resort to.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ocho is here to stay :    Nice!
    Posted by passfirst[/QUOTE]

    yeah it is pretty easy to poke the guy full of holes and prove him wrong

    this argument should have its own thread and not 'ruin the Ocho one' but I do have one more point to make.

    You can have the greatest O-lineman ever (Hannah for argument sake) for a career, over say Matt Light, a top 5 guy a few years and maybe top 15 over his 13-15 year career... and the performance on the field by the team will not be drastically altered by going from excellent to just very good at the LT spot.

    But if you take away a Montana, Brady, Manning or Young and replace them with a Matt Light caliber QB (Cutler, Matt Ryan, Flacco, Hassellback, Schaub) over a career, then you are going to take a big step down and drop in wins and playoff performance

    So yeah, that's why the best 10-12 QB's of all time are all greater than Hannah... ad why Tom, as already the 6th or 7th best QB ever, is clearly the greatest Patriot of all-time.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ocho is here to stay : Did Hannah have Kraft owning the team and BB running things? lol Comparing a Sullivan/rotating GM and coach context to what Brady has had here, is ludicrous. My god, dude.  Hannah is WIDELY considered, hands down, the best OL in NFL history. As much as I love Brady, he's not widely considered the best. Many would say Otto Graham, Montana, Peyton Manning, Dan Marino and so forth.  If he had a better postseason this year, you might have more of a leg to stand on with your premise. Only Brady can control how his legacy holds up.  He's had 2 chances to make your statement pretty much a fact.   Unfortunately, right now, he's in no way definitively the best QB ever.  Stinks to admit, but I care more about the team than just Brady anyway.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    A better post season????



    POSTSEASON STATS7511187867.67.916184100.4


    He completed 68% of his passes for 8 tds and a 100.4 QB rating. He lead a one dimensional offense that doesn't like to run to his 5th Super Bowl appearance in 10 seasons as a starter. He has the highest winning % in NFL history.

    Has the whole damn world gone crazy?


    And what kind of an argument is "did Hannah have Kraft"??? Brady plays in the FA era, he was successful with a bunch of midget receivers from 01-04, then he was successful with NO receivers in 06, then he turned in the best season statistically in NFL history the first time he was given weapons in 07. Then we switched to a 2 TE set and he threw 36 tds to only 4 interceptions which may have been his finest season.

    Anyway I don't expect you to concede a point so lets not turn this into a 9 page back and forth.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ocho is here to stay : A better post season???? POSTSEASON STATS 75 111 878 67.6 7.91 61 8 4 100.4 He completed 68% of his passes for 8 tds and a 100.4 QB rating. He lead a one dimensional offense that doesn't like to run to his 5th Super Bowl appearance in 10 seasons as a starter. He has the highest winning % in NFL history . Has the whole damn world gone crazy? And what kind of an argument is "did Hannah have Kraft"??? Brady plays in the FA era, he was successful with a bunch of midget receivers from 01-04, then he was successful with NO receivers in 06, then he turned in the best season statistically in NFL history the first time he was given weapons in 07. Then we switched to a 2 TE set and he threw 36 tds to only 4 interceptions which may have been his finest season. Anyway I don't expect you to concede a point so lets not turn this into a 9 page back and forth.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I'm content knowing he has 100% lost the argument, others he brought facts

    a real man can admit when he is wrong

    Brady is the greatest Patriot of all time
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Ocho is here to stay

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ocho is here to stay : A better post season???? POSTSEASON STATS 75 111 878 67.6 7.91 61 8 4 100.4 He completed 68% of his passes for 8 tds and a 100.4 QB rating. He lead a one dimensional offense that doesn't like to run to his 5th Super Bowl appearance in 10 seasons as a starter. He has the highest winning % in NFL history . Has the whole damn world gone crazy? And what kind of an argument is "did Hannah have Kraft"??? Brady plays in the FA era, he was successful with a bunch of midget receivers from 01-04, then he was successful with NO receivers in 06, then he turned in the best season statistically in NFL history the first time he was given weapons in 07. Then we switched to a 2 TE set and he threw 36 tds to only 4 interceptions which may have been his finest season. Anyway I don't expect you to concede a point so lets not turn this into a 9 page back and forth.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Why do I need to concede a point when my opinion is simply different for different reasons?  Just because Hannah plays a less sexy position, doesn't mean Brady is the best Patriot ever.   Stop acting all incredulous.  It's very reasonable for any Pats fan to choose the great Hannah over Brady.  I would change my mind if Brady improves his postseasons.

    And yes, Brady has had BB and Kraft alongside him while Hannah had horrendous ownership (arugably the worst in the NFL), GMs and coaches overall.  So, even though this is a FA era, BB's incredible stewardship as coach and GM has evened out any pre cap era rhetoric in Hannah's time.

    Again, Hannah is WIDELY considered THE BEST OL of all time.  Brady, while in the discussion, has not earned that status yet. Maybe he will?  But, not right now. He just had 2 chances in 4 seasons to support your premise.

    Brady was on his way to the best ever in 2007. He got hurt in 2008.  Came back in 2009. Was amazing in 2010 with a subpar postseason game.

    In 2011, he was very inconsistent, torched an 8-8 Denver club and then proceeded to suck (his own words) against Balt and then to stumble in the 4th qtr of SB 46.

    This is exactly what has happened. He was a better QB earlier in his career.   His stats went  up with better offensive personnel, but his postseason play has gone down. This latter points is unequivocally not debatable.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ocho is here to stay : Yeah, I'm content knowing he has 100% lose the argument, others he brought facts a real man can admit when he is wrong Brady is the greatest Patriot of all time
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    I "lost an argument" because I feel Hannah is the best Patriot ever because he's the best OL ever?

    There is no way you're 30 years old. You sound 12.
     
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    Re: Ocho is here to stay



      if you are starting a team, and you can only pick one of them, who are you taking?


      If you Say Hannah, then you are crazy.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ocho is here to stay : I "lost an argument" because I feel Hannah is the best Patriot ever because he's the best OL ever? There is no way you're 30 years old. You sound 12.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    again, ur being childish and confrontational

    All I said was you lost this argument, its true, the better supported argument using facts and link and stats wins out

    you are allowed to argue that Hannah is the greatest O-lineman ever

    but that does not make him the greatest Patriot ever, and the national experts who compile lists of the top players agree with that 100%.

    There are a dozen QB's in the history of the game considered greater players than Hannah and Brady is somewhere in the middle of that pack of QB's, with a chance to be in the top 3-5 EASILY

    you are entitled to your opinion, in your mind somehow you have convinced yourself Hannah is a greater player... but in the statistically proven REALITY of the sport, franchise, players, etc. he is not, Brady is obviously superior

    end of story
     
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    [QUOTE]  if you are starting a team, and you can only pick one of them, who are you taking?   If you Say Hannah, then you are crazy.
    Posted by passfirst[/QUOTE]

    Ha, like I said earlier, you can win multiple super bowls with matt light, a guy who in his prime was probably never more than the 4th best LT in any season, and sometimes not even in the top 10. You don't start a team with the greatest LT ever. That is why there are a dozen QB's in the top 25 players ever and all are 'better' than Hannah b/c you start your team with them over him 10/10 times.

    Unless you have the Ravens defense of '00, you need a top QB to win, and you need a HOF QB to average over 10 wins a season for 10 years, and John Hannah or whoever else on ur line would mean diddly if you are throwing a middle of the pack QB or even the 'Matt Light of QB's' out there.
     

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