Odrick or Williams

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from N464Mex-N460A. Show N464Mex-N460A's posts

    Odrick or Williams

    If there's a question whether Odrick can play DE in the 3-4 at a high level the patriots might trade up for williams.
    What differences do you think we'd see between these two players? Who would you compare these guys to?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    Between the 2, Williams for sure.  More powerful, stronger. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    Williams seems like a much better prospect.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    Whatever you do don't watch tape of Suh and  McCoy and then watch Williams or Odirick. You will walk away thinking Odirick and Williams are 4th round draft prospects, thats how good Suh and McCoy are. I'll tell yeah, if you get one of those guys your entire defense changes. Either one would be worth what you would give to move up.

    I'd give up our first, and two of our seconds to land one of these guys. It takes two people to block these guys and even then they are still making plays. It'd be like you were drafting two players with one pick anyways. Plus the guy you take  later in the draft to be an outside olb pass rusher will actualy have a chance to be successful.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsFanGermany. Show PatsFanGermany's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    Odrick
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    Geathers in either the second round or 3rd round should they acquire a 3rd rd pick.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjaycee. Show jjaycee's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    ODRICK- WILLIAMS IS REPORTED AS NO PASS RUSHER, AS ARE NOT- WILFOLK, WARREN, AND WRIGHT.  ODRICK IS, AND SHOULD BE PATRIOT'S # 1 IN THE DRAFT, THE TEAM'S # 1 NEED.  
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    I have searched youtube for video of Odrick.

    To my un-trained eye, I cannot see what the hoop-la is over Odrick.

    The guy is not a playmaker. Far and away Williams is the better pick.

    Odrick @53 would be OK.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtg5017. Show gtg5017's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    In Response to Re: Odrick or Williams:
    I have searched youtube for video of Odrick. To my un-trained eye, I cannot see what the hoop-la is over Odrick. The guy is not a playmaker. Far and away Williams is the better pick. Odrick @53 would be OK.
    Posted by pats-fan-2007


    What are you talking about??? Odrick had 7 sacks this year, playing INSIDE in a 4-3 and most of the time being DOUBLE-TEAMED...not quite sure how you can conclude he's not a playmaker. Odrick also has a longer frame at 6'5" than Williams (6'2"), and thus, would probably fit better into the Pats' scheme at the end position. Not sure why you would be comparing these guys because Williams will play NT no question, while Odrick would play end in the Pats' system. We don't need a NT. Go with Odrick.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    In Response to Re: Odrick or Williams:
    In Response to Re: Odrick or Williams : What are you talking about??? Odrick had 7 sacks this year, playing INSIDE in a 4-3 and most of the time being DOUBLE-TEAMED...not quite sure how you can conclude he's not a playmaker. Odrick also has a longer frame at 6'5" than Williams (6'2"), and thus, would probably fit better into the Pats' scheme at the end position. Not sure why you would be comparing these guys because Williams will play NT no question, while Odrick would play end in the Pats' system. We don't need a NT. Go with Odrick.
    Posted by gtg5017


    Since when are nose tackles 6'5" ?  Richard Seymour is 6'6".  Ty Warren is 6'4"  DE's need to be taller to contend with the height of the offensive tackles with whom they're frequently confronted (I think every tackle is at least 6'4" nowadays).

    I don't think the Pats need a defensive lineman nearly as badly as they need an outside linebacker who can beat a tackle to the QB and cover reasonably well.  I think the team can get by with Wilfork, Warren, and a filler.

    I preemptively vote for Sergio Kindle.  He seems like he's fast enough to be reasonable in the flats and big enough with a good enough rip move to get the edge on a blocker and turn the corner.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    In Response to Re: Odrick or Williams:
    Whatever you do don't watch tape of Suh and  McCoy and then watch Williams or Odirick. You will walk away thinking Odirick and Williams are 4th round draft prospects, thats how good Suh and McCoy are. I'll tell yeah, if you get one of those guys your entire defense changes. Either one would be worth what you would give to move up. I'd give up our first, and two of our seconds to land one of these guys. It takes two people to block these guys and even then they are still making plays. It'd be like you were drafting two players with one pick anyways. Plus the guy you take  later in the draft to be an outside olb pass rusher will actualy have a chance to be successful.
    Posted by mthurl


    I think it would be almost impossible to trade up that high to get either guy and I don't think they'd be worth the investment in money ($$$), considering the team already has cash tied up to Wilfork and Warren already.  If a salary cap came back, the team would have ~20-25% of its money invested in 3 d-linemen.

    Also, where would they play?  McCoy is a 4-3 one-gap defensive lineman who would have to learn new technique.  Suh would also lose something if he were asked to engage a blocker or two in a two-gap system as opposed to wreaking havoc in a different system where he's set loose.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    As far as I'm concerned the Lewis (Green's clone) signing is all about drafting an elephant type which Kindle, Hughes and/or Sapp could be.  Odrick might replace Seymour of the past 3 years.  He's not the old Big Sey and he's not a legit pass rusher.  

    I suspect the Pats might draft two DE/OLB types.  Although a more sizable pass rusher like Dunlap could be interesting if still an option at 22.  Graham obviously would be.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams


    As much as I love Williams, I don't think I trade that far up to get him given his position. We are already stacked at the DL position, and Williams primary role (NT/DT), we have VW and Brace, and possibly even Wright as a backup NT. I think it would take us to move to 10 to get Wiliams, where Odrick should be had at 22 if we like him. Odrick has prototypical size for a DE in a 3-4, and believe he can play the 5. I like Odrick, but don't love him.

    In all honesty, I am thinking taking neither. We won't move up for Williams, and I think we can have a good DE in round 2 or later such as Alualu, Carrington, Wooten, Joseph, Geathers. Alualu has played 3-4 DE at Cal, and personally I like him over Odrick based on where we could get him..plus he has a great motor, can play the pass and run well, and should open things up for our LB's to make plays.

    Use the 22nd on Graham for sure if he is there. I would not use it on Kindle or Sapp. Other possibles at 22 if you are considering defense are Griffen and Dunlap. Sleeper pick here could be Weatherspoon as well. 
    I would not be surprised to see the Pats revert back to their old selves and draft Gresham (TE) with that pick either, or possibly move the pick down into later round 1, or into round 2 to grab a 3. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    In Response to Re: Odrick or Williams:
    In Response to Re: Odrick or Williams : I think it would be almost impossible to trade up that high to get either guy and I don't think they'd be worth the investment in money ($$$), considering the team already has cash tied up to Wilfork and Warren already.  If a salary cap came back, the team would have ~20-25% of its money invested in 3 d-linemen. Also, where would they play?  McCoy is a 4-3 one-gap defensive lineman who would have to learn new technique.  Suh would also lose something if he were asked to engage a blocker or two in a two-gap system as opposed to wreaking havoc in a different system where he's set loose.
    Posted by NickC1188


    McCoy is a one gap guy that faces double and triple teams most of the time and plays well. Very rarely does this guy play against lets say a guard and just shoot through without any attention paid to him. I think he can handle a two gap at end responsibility. Suh, is being compared to Seymore and if you watch tape you can see why. Seymore was a one gap DT in college, so was Wilfork for that matter. As a matter of fact your going to have a real hard time finding a d lineman in college that is a true 2 gap player. Not saying no teams do it, but most of these guys are asked to covert and there is projection there.

    As for the money, you get what you pay for. In my opinion these guys are worth top 5 money, certainly more than others that get the riches in the draft. Nothing is a sure thing for sure. Either one of these guys could be busts, it's just that guys like this are hard to find and don't come around very often.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from datdude401. Show datdude401's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    I'd take Williams if the choice was b/t these 2. Williams would cause havoc in run defense. He wouldnt give you the pass rush Seymour gave you but Odrick wouldnt either. He's just taller. Watching what footage we have of him, Im not that impressed with ODrick but he is solid.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    This is the deepest draft ever for DTs.  The player who is most likely to be as good as Richard Seymour is Suh and you'd have to move up to #2 to get him.  If you want to take a flyer at 119 there's Clifton Geathers at 6-8, 299, and ran a 4.98 with a 36" vertical!!  He's only 20 and come out early against the advise of the NFL Advisory Committee.  He played in the SEC and was getting better every game.  He has the potential to be the next Too Tall Jones.

    Williams I believe can play the 5 technique but his real value is as a NT and he would cost us a 2nd to move up to get.

    Or, we could stay put and take Odrick at 22.  He is faster, has more of the size you want for a 34 DE but his engine doesn't run as hot as Williams.

    Or, we could take Alualu who actually played the 5 technique or 34 DE at Cal.  He's faster than all the guys we've been talking about.  His broad jump, vertical, 40, 10, cone and shuttle times are better than Suh's.  He needs to spend more time in the gym because his 21 reps aren't good but that's easily and quickly corrected.  Alualu should be available at 44 or 48.

    If you want to wait until the 4th or 5th (which we don't have) there's Linvall Joseph who is just a beast at 6-5, 328, 5.09 and 39 reps.  His 40, 20, 10, broad, and shuttle times are better than Williams.

    There are a ton of other late round prospects too like Woods, Peters, Deaderick that could be had in the 6-7 rounds.  For me, unless you are getting Suh or Williams why not address other needs at the top and pick up one of these other guys later on who could end up being as good if not better than Odrick?  I think we signed Lewis because we wanted a guy who can start now while we groom a young player to take over.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    One thing I worry about with Williams is his weight. He was around 380 when he arrived at Tennessee. He lost the weight, but it makes you wonder if he gets his money, will he gain the weight back? If he does, there goes his quickness and his ability to play end. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sveltics. Show Sveltics's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    In Response to Re: Odrick or Williams:
    As much as I love Williams, I don't think I trade that far up to get him given his position. We are already stacked at the DL position, and Williams primary role (NT/DT), we have VW and Brace, and possibly even Wright as a backup NT. I think it would take us to move to 10 to get Wiliams, where Odrick should be had at 22 if we like him. Odrick has prototypical size for a DE in a 3-4, and believe he can play the 5. I like Odrick, but don't love him. In all honesty, I am thinking taking neither. We won't move up for Williams, and I think we can have a good DE in round 2 or later such as Alualu, Carrington, Wooten, Joseph, Geathers. Alualu has played 3-4 DE at Cal, and personally I like him over Odrick based on where we could get him..plus he has a great motor, can play the pass and run well, and should open things up for our LB's to make plays. Use the 22nd on Graham for sure if he is there. I would not use it on Kindle or Sapp. Other possibles at 22 if you are considering defense are Griffen and Dunlap. Sleeper pick here could be Weatherspoon as well.  I would not be surprised to see the Pats revert back to their old selves and draft Gresham (TE) with that pick either, or possibly move the pick down into later round 1, or into round 2 to grab a 3. 
    Posted by PatsLifer



    Good Post...I agree with ya.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    My preference would be to take a flyer or two on some late round types.  We have 6 DL that appear to be roster locks and usually that's all a 34 team will carry.

    Or, I'd try to make a play for Suh if he slips past DET.  Might be able to get him with our 22, 44 and the Raider 2011 first round pick.  I realize this sound like a lot to give up but Suh is that good.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jsppro1. Show jsppro1's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    Pats Nation, remember the jobs of the Defensive line, to tie up o-lineman and let the linebackers work.  With that being said. Oddrick has the power and strenght.  He's also 6-5.  Seymor was the a demon in the pass ruch either.Here's a sleeper Dunlap of Flordia.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Odrick or Williams

    Faucet, I know Suh seems great, but many here felt that way about Dwayne Robertson I think it was, the loser the jets traded up and got.  We were a hot team in the rumormill in regards to trading up and getting him.  He was also a one every 10 yrs DL etc. Look how he turned out.   I think it is just wayyy too much.
     

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