Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    In response to DelGriffith's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Rerun85's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Our Defense has also lost that ability. I would like to see the Defense that played against the Titans show up this weekend. It's tough watching them lose like this because we were all used to seeing them pull games out in the same manor years ago. However, The season is young and we haven't come close to playing our best football yet.

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    Are you comparing the Tagliabue era with the Goodell or no?  We see more defenses around the NFL in general like that, not just the Pats.

    The league has changed. It's much easier to put up points, yards, etc, now with how Goodell wants the games called. It's that simple.   Ol Rogie wants to sell this game in London and maybe elsewhere.  He's gone beserk, in a nutshell. He's using this kind of thinking to tailor the game for high scores because in his mind, that's what sells. 

    I started watching the NFL in the early 1980s and the way it's called now is nowhere near to how games used to be called or played. Much, much easier to play consistent, high end D in 1987 than it is now. Not even close.

    Just look at how little the offenses are called for holding. You have faster, stronger players on D, yet somehow, magically, there is less holding going on? Please.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm actually comparing the Defense that played last night to the Defense that played the first Game of the season. A Defense the stops the run and applies some pressure on the QB. I'm comparing good with Bad.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    Okay, the offense has lost the ability to end games. Brady ain't what he used to be.

     

    Where do we go from here? You know where the buck stops.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    God forbid the Patriots lose a close game to a worthy opponent in a hostile environment with incompetent refs.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    In response to DelGriffith's comment:
    [QUOTE]lmao

    God forbid is right. Hey Digger, did you hear Arrington "can't turn his hips" because Torrey Smith pushed off in the end zone?
    [/QUOTE]

    I just wish the Patriots had shutdown corners like all the other 31 teams have.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    In response to patriotsfan96's comment:
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    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
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    Umm it's our defense that  has lost the ability to close it out,  think McGinest with the sack, Harrison with the interception. 

    Blame the offense for the Super Bowl loss, putting up 17 points, and you have an argument. How many points do you expect our offense to score?

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe you are right. Overall we are not as clutch like we used to be.

    [/QUOTE]

    sb39 aside, both you and 96 are holding on to myths about what made the pats successful in the past. your myth is bigger than his.

    on both sb36 and sb38, it was tb and vinnatieri who bailed out the d.

    in sb36, the so called great closing d gave up 14 pts in the fourth. tb led the drive for a winning fg.

    in sb 38, the pats' excellent closing d gave up 19 pts in the fourth. with help from kasay, tb led the team again to set up the game-winning fg. on each game, the did not really have to close the game.

    there was no big stop by the d. in fact on both games, the d could not stop the opponent in the 4th.

    on 96's part, the myth was that the o never had been able to win with a td. i actually do not remember a game when tb scored a td on the last 2 mins to win a game. if it did happen, it was much less frequent than it did not.

    here's the thing, when you look at sb 39, the d actually did not do much better either. phi just were bad early int he game, but ultimately, that pats d gave up 324 yards.

    i actually like what is happening - even with the loss last night. it forces the team to figure out a way to win tough games. the real success factor back in the sb years was their ability to grind it out for 60 mins. remember that game against sd that was already lost due to a fumble but (i can't remember if it was brown or branch) forced a fumble on the same play? 

    last night, the play that i really could not stomach was gronk not blocking on back to back plays that resulted in a sack and a hit. it showed lack of effort to recognize what needed to be done at that moment.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ytsejamer1. Show Ytsejamer1's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    The offense has lost the ability to close out games when it's really needed...especially big games.  The defense has over the years, lost the ability to stop anyone...especially when it's needed in big games.  Both arguments are 100% correct.

     

    The issue from my perspective (which isn't worth much) is that the team just can't seem to play complimentary football when it needs to or as often as it needs to....ESPECIALLY  in big games.  We haven't seen much smart situational football, but there has been some.  I'll give a recent example.

     

    Against the Titans, Hasselbeck had come in and started whipping the ball all over the field...he marched the Titans down and they got a FG to get them within one score.  The Pats offense came out and marched right down the field...chewing up six or seven minutes...ending the drive with a FG.  They essentially wiped about 10 or 12 minutes of game clock off the map with no net gain for the Titans.  That drive right there, is smart, situational football.  Guys stayed in bounds, they kept getting first downs, etc.

     

    I can't explain it too well but I know we've been seeing with this recurring pattern over and over and over and over and over again.  There's a sputtering fourth quarter offense giving the ball back to the oppositon with a couple minutes left.  At that stage, we can only watch the defense allow them to march down the field, take all the time off the clock, and score a game-winning number of points.  Both squads...offense and defense get the blame.

     

    I didn't watch the last two minutes of the game...i knew exactly how it was going to end.  I didn't need to see it.  I'd already seen how that movie ended...it stinks every time.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    i agree that the can't close teams out like they used too but I am not convinced the defense has a strong history of saving the teams bacon recently. In the final minutes they give up huge yardage quickly. Unlike the Giants the Ravens were not dumb enough to try to score a TD to give the Pats a chance. The offensive line was all but useless on that final drive for the Pats much like in the past 2 super bowls. The Pats usually win by a lot so it is a semi phony argument here. The Pats have won 27 games over the last two years and several of them were impressive comebacks with clutch offense. At the end of the first half last night the Pats had an epic drive that few teams could have accomplished in that noise and with the Raven's momentum. The Pats offense has underachieved compared to last year (McDaniels has been to cute in my opinion so far) but if they can figure out what they are actually good at they should be a force come december.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from richpats. Show richpats's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Okay, the offense has lost the ability to end games. Brady ain't what he used to be.

     [/QUOTE]

    With all due respect to Tom, in these situations the ball shouldn't even be in his hands.  If we had a guy that could pound for 10 yards in 3 plays then we'd be set.  But since Dillon we haven't had that, and the D's know it, and they know Tom is thinking short-yardage so it gets even easier for them. 

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LJB064. Show LJB064's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    In response to richpats's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I was going to post something similar to this.  Since the 2006 AFC title game, Brady has been in 10 situations against quality teams (above .500) where he had a one-score lead and the ball in the final few minutes:

    2006 Colts (AFC Title); 2007 Colts; 2009 Colts ("4th and 2"); 2009 Ravens (Reg season); 2010 Chargers; 2010 Packers; 2010 Colts; 2011 Ravens (AFC Title); 2011 Giants (SB46); 2012 Ravens

    You know how many times the offense converted a first down to ice the game?  ONCE (Indianapolis 2007).  In the 9 situations where the defense needed to make a stop they were successful on 5 occasions.  In these situations, if the offense is only closing 10% of the time and the defense is closing 55.5% of the time, then the liability is clearly the OFFENSE. 

    I think the Pats' issue is that they become too conservative on offense and cannot convert first downs as easily as they do during the course of a game.  Then they go so far as to go for it on FOURTH down when they don't have a good play for it (Indy 2009, SD 2010). 

    The defense is also liable for letting each team march into NE territory and threaten to score but they are more effective at limiting the opposition to FG attempts (which some are missed) and turning it over on downs. 

    If the offense was a little more aggressive and effective in these situations then the defense wouldn't be asked to make as many critical stops. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Richpats:

    Thanks for collecting and posting those stats.  I agree that conservatism is what defeats us in those situations. 

    Of course, Bill caught hell for going for it on 4th and 2 against the Colts (because he knew what would happen if Indy got the ball back).  To this day, I still say that Kevin Faulk made that first down.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    In response to richpats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Okay, the offense has lost the ability to end games. Brady ain't what he used to be.

     [/QUOTE]

    With all due respect to Tom, in these situations the ball shouldn't even be in his hands.  If we had a guy that could pound for 10 yards in 3 plays then we'd be set.  But since Dillon we haven't had that, and the D's know it, and they know Tom is thinking short-yardage so it gets even easier for them. 

    [/QUOTE]


    It's hard to remember the last time we had an effective run game to close out a close one.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    In response to jri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Let's see.

    The D gives up 7 plays of over 15 yards in the 4th qtr (non-penalty plays) doesn't have a sack or a QB pressure in the entire game, give up 500 yards and blow a 9 point lead and the offenses is to blame for only scoring 30 points on the road.

     

    YUP

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    But they held the Ravens to only 5 yards a carry and Flacco to a measley 117 passer rating with 70%+ completions.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    vince wilfork said it best, it was something like "the offense played their tails off and we hung them out to dry".....they could have picked up another first down, but 30 points is more than enough to win, espescially when you are playing against flacco.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    In response to richpats's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Okay, the offense has lost the ability to end games. Brady ain't what he used to be.

     [/QUOTE]

    With all due respect to Tom, in these situations the ball shouldn't even be in his hands.  If we had a guy that could pound for 10 yards in 3 plays then we'd be set.  But since Dillon we haven't had that, and the D's know it, and they know Tom is thinking short-yardage so it gets even easier for them. 

    [/QUOTE]

    With all due respect, they did take the ball out of Toms hands and that is the problem.

    Running and killing the clock is fine with a big lead and competant backs but we had neither.

    Josh's determination to incorporate the run is failing at this point has cost them the last 2 games.  I can't understand forcing it at this point.  Do it when you are comfotable, not with the freaken game on the line.  They will get better with reps but the timing of those forced runs has been disasterous.

    Very similar to last week .

    From Reiss;

    The final two drives Sunday night tell the story. In those "got to have it" situations, when one truly finds out the identity of an offense, what did we see?

    The Patriots couldn't run the ball -- a Danny Woodhead rush for a loss of 4 yards contributed to killing the drive that followed a big fourth-down stop on defense. On the second got-to-have-it drive, there were rushes of 1, 3 and 1 yards. Not enough forward momentum.

    So the Patriots were forced to go to the air, what they've done best in recent years, but the execution was surprisingly shoddy in critical situations.

    [+] EnlargeDanny Woodhead Mitch Stringer/US PresswireWhen push came to shove, Danny Woodhead and the Patriots running game were little help with the Ravens game on the line.

     

    On the first got-to-have-it drive, on second-and-14, a quick pass to receiver Deion Branch was stopped for no gain when receiver Wes Welker couldn't execute his block to spring the play, then an incomplete pass on third-and-14 followed when quarterback Tom Brady was moved out of the pocket by pressure coming up the middle.

    On the ensuing drive, the lack of forward momentum provided by the running game ultimately set up a second-and-9 in which Brady, operating out of the shotgun, was sacked on a Ravens five-man blitz. Brady didn't have a chance on the play, nor did he on third-and-16 when the Ravens rushed only four but overloaded the offensive right side and forced a quick throw.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from painter. Show painter's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    Conservative play-calling, to much Woodhead not enough Ridley (or another genuine running threat, which they don't have), no Randy Moss-type, and a porous secondary make watching frustrating.  With a QB like Brady - seasoned, smart, gun for an arm, they don't take chances and settle for too many three-and-outs.  Is it McDaniel?  I for one don't know where the problem lays, but I'd sure like to see better performances from key guys and changes where guys aren't performing.  This doesn't add much execept my simplistic take.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to richpats's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Okay, the offense has lost the ability to end games. Brady ain't what he used to be.

     [/QUOTE]

    With all due respect to Tom, in these situations the ball shouldn't even be in his hands.  If we had a guy that could pound for 10 yards in 3 plays then we'd be set.  But since Dillon we haven't had that, and the D's know it, and they know Tom is thinking short-yardage so it gets even easier for them. 

    [/QUOTE]

    With all due respect, they did take the ball out of Toms hands and that is the problem.

    Running and killing the clock is fine with a big lead and competant backs but we had neither.

    Josh's determination to incorporate the run is failing at this point has cost them the last 2 games.  I can't understand forcing it at this point.  Do it when you are comfotable, not with the freaken game on the line.  They will get better with reps but the timing of those forced runs has been disasterous.

    Very similar to last week .

    From Reiss;

    The final two drives Sunday night tell the story. In those "got to have it" situations, when one truly finds out the identity of an offense, what did we see?

    The Patriots couldn't run the ball -- a Danny Woodhead rush for a loss of 4 yards contributed to killing the drive that followed a big fourth-down stop on defense. On the second got-to-have-it drive, there were rushes of 1, 3 and 1 yards. Not enough forward momentum.

    So the Patriots were forced to go to the air, what they've done best in recent years, but the execution was surprisingly shoddy in critical situations.

    [+] EnlargeDanny Woodhead Mitch Stringer/US PresswireWhen push came to shove, Danny Woodhead and the Patriots running game were little help with the Ravens game on the line.

     

    On the first got-to-have-it drive, on second-and-14, a quick pass to receiver Deion Branch was stopped for no gain when receiver Wes Welker couldn't execute his block to spring the play, then an incomplete pass on third-and-14 followed when quarterback Tom Brady was moved out of the pocket by pressure coming up the middle.

    On the ensuing drive, the lack of forward momentum provided by the running game ultimately set up a second-and-9 in which Brady, operating out of the shotgun, was sacked on a Ravens five-man blitz. Brady didn't have a chance on the play, nor did he on third-and-16 when the Ravens rushed only four but overloaded the offensive right side and forced a quick throw.

    [/QUOTE]

    God Pezz, you can't pass your way through a 4 minute drive. You have to run, but as I have said all this year and last, WHY is Woody the guy trying to run out a clock......because he is the shotgun back! Use power run formations, Brady and the offense will have a learning curve because O'brien was so 1 dimensional but when they come together we will be ready for post season success.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Our offense lost the abiliry to end games

    It took the whole team offense and defense to win the three Super Bowl Championships.

    On these forums, it always turns into offense vs defense or Brady vs Belichick, but the team as a whole has failed to produce another championship over the past seven seasons. 

     

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