Parcells Quits Yet Again

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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    In Response to Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again : perhaps, but equally so maybe you have been "spoonfed" by both the NE press and the authors of the books you read...and I never said he learned "everything" from Parcells-of course not
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

    No.  David Halberstam was not in the Boston media.   That's one example.  

    How are facts and the exact things that happened, sourced by the writers who interview the people who were involved as primary sources not be what you would want as a reader?

    That's not spoonfed.   Not at all.   You're putting a media spin above actual fact with sourced components to support it.  That's just wrong to do that. 

    A sensationalist media angle to drive a story, in this case, the drama of a protege spurning his mentor (so to speak), and not being collared yet again, is a lot different than getting actual sourced facts from Belichick as to what happened.

    Or, the idea that Parcells was entertainment for a media that enjoyed good quotes to add to their pieces also should have no bearing on the facts.

    Now, Belichick could be lying about why he left the Jets and how he did it, but he would be opening himself up to lawsuits galore, so I don't believe the information shared about him wanting to free himself from the parcells/Jets mess was a lie in any of the books. 

    The reality is, he had to accept the Jets job, legally, to be able to take a better job in NE.

    These facts have also shown up in 2 other books Pats fans know of (Patriot Reign and Pats Management Secrets Vol 1 and 2).

    So, "spoonfed" is not really a good word here unless you think a guy (BB) who cares about his image would lie in print in order to somehow spin this to curry favor with the public, which, as we know, is not anywhere near what BB does.

    Spoonfed is a very good word for the apparent media delivery and love affair that we've seen with Parcells for years. Again, last year's ESPN "who is a better GM thing" proves this.  

    As does every single fact of BB's resume in comparison to Parcells's.

    Parcells is not remotely close to BB as a GM if you compare resumes.  It's insulting to BB and his consistent resume and otherworldly accomplishments.  Parcells is also not really close to BB in terms of coaching success either.

    BB has coached in 7 SBs.  Parcells?  3.

    People see the old school Parcells and look at his pre cap SB championships and for some reason connect to the present day.  This is like saying Aerosmith is the same band they were in 1976.  lol

    The Jets story makes a lot of sense and it matches up as to why he had to accept the job and then resign, too. 

    It also matched up to Parcells being GM once he resigned.   Parcells is a control freak. He's always been a bully to the media, yet the media apparently thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread, because in the end, it gets them what they want.

    This idea is likely tied directly as to why Parcells is propped up and BB is not.

    And, as we know, the fact is, Parcells was nowhere as successful as a coach without BB at his side, as opposed to BB at his side in NY, NE or with the Jets.

    In fact, in each case, BB immediately turned the teams around, not Parcells.  Parcells may have started a process, but BB was the clear final reason from a coaching standpoint.

    He joined Parcells in 1985 as Def Coordinator (had other roles prior to that) and had them in the playoffs and a SB Champ within in 2 years, in NE in 1996 (SB appearance), and he had the Jets in AFC title game because of the improved D in just 2 years.

    Look at the pattern.  It's legendary.  BB, far more so than Parcells.  Funny how D wins championships and he took the same or maybe slighly different personnel and IMMEDIATELY changed the culture of the team. 

    Each time, the differentiator added to the equation, was BB, not Parcells.

    The media is a very dangerous thing sometimes.  They become brainwashed to sell and therefore end up saying the same thing over and over again until people believe it.
     
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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    You continue to put words in my mouth.

    I didn't say "BB was repsonsible for Baltimore's 2000 SB Championship".

    I said what he was trying to do in Cleveland laid the groundwork for Baltimore's new organziation, allowing them to transition easier.

    That's a fact. 

    Also, Testaverde made the Pro Bowl in 1996, after Belichick fought to bench Kosar when MOdell wouldn't allow him to.

    Another fact.

    The premise stands:

    BB had a handle on how to create and maintain a winning formula in the cap era, LONG BEFORE MOST GMs did.

    He's spawned like 4 or 5 quality GMs in this league from his time in Cleveland.

    In 3 seasons BB had Cleveland at 12-4 and then Modell made the announcement to move the team.

    IN 3 season in Miami, Parcells has Miami regressing.  lol
     
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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    What was their record in the playoffs in 1994? "Claim"?  What is the "claim"? The fact is he was improving the mess Schottenheimer left at the dawn of the cap era in 1993.

    Edit:

    Oh, my mistake.  11-5.  I think Laz had it wrong in his original post.  11-5.  Still trending up 3 years in.

    Yeah, that really throws off the crux of the premise.

    Dear Phat Rex,

    Don't apply to law school.

    lol
     
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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    Actually, I think Laz was including the 12 wins within the playoff win. 

    Christ, you're so dumb. If you think your deflections give you some kind of leverage in these debates, you're even more stupid than we realized.

    Modell himself said he scapegoated BB.  He wasn't fired for "failing".  At all.

    He was a scapegoat so Modell could take pressure off himself for being a crook.

    Read books much?  Live life much? Have you ever left home? Like, ever?

    Read up, son:

    http://www.patriotsbook.com/SAMPLES/Management_Secrets_Vol_1_Belichick.pdf
     
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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    Cleveland won a total of 12 games in 1994.  That's a fact.  I didn't realize he was including that 12 wins with the playoff win in his original post.

    It doesn't change his premise or mine.

    BB had them trending up. FACT

    I just,yet again, pasted in a series of quotes from NFL people who also reinforce that premise.

    You refuse to read it because you fear the facts and reality.

    Too easy. Way too easy.  I do my homework, you don't.  It's that simple.

    You aren't even a college graduate and you pretend you can talk down to me?  Really?  lol





    Monday, January 19, 2009

    Baltimore's Playoff Run Revived Echoes of What Might Have Been for Cleveland

    Hall of Fame tight end Ozzie Newsome spent his entire 13 year NFL career with the Cleveland Browns. After he retired, then-Browns Coach Bill Belichick hired him to be a scout. Newsome steadily worked his way up in the organization and by the time Owner Art Modell moved the franchise to Baltimore prior to the 1996 season Newsome was the team's director of player personnel, meaning that he was in charge of deciding who the Ravens would draft. Newsome's first two choices--Ray Lewis and Jonathan Ogden--became perennial Pro Bowlers and the cornerstones of the 2000 Super Bowl champions. Newsome became Baltimore's General Manager in 2002.

    I have often told anyone who would listen that Bill Belichick was in the process of turning the Browns into a Super Bowl team when Modell ruined everything by announcing in the middle of the 1995 season that he planned to move the team, turning the final half of that campaign into a nightmare scenario for Belichick and his players. Modell "rewarded" Belichick's hard work and loyalty by unceremoniously firing him right after that season. Belichick had taken over a team that went 3-13 in 1990 and by 1994 the Browns were an 11-5 squad that won a playoff game (sadly, the Browns have not won a playoff game since then). No coach could have had a successful season under the circumstances that Belichick and his players had to endure in 1995 but I always believed that the next time Belichick got a head coaching job he would lead that team to a Super Bowl win. Obviously, Belichick has done that and more since arriving in New England.

    With Belichick winning three Super Bowls as a head coach and his former scout Newsome winning a Super Bowl as an executive, it is only natural to wonder how many Super Bowls Belichick and Newsome would have won in Cleveland. Someone asked Newsome that very question prior to Baltimore's 23-14 loss to Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship Game and Newsome replied, "Would we have had the opportunity to get to a Super Bowl once, maybe twice? I'd say yes, we would have." The most bizarre thing about Modell's tenure as Browns owner is that he managed to not only drive his team to the brink of financial ruin but he also was on the verge of personal bankruptcy by the time he accepted the huge windfall offered by Baltimore--and despite all of that largesse he was in such dire financial straits just a few years later that he was forced to sell the team to Steve Bisciotti. Ironically, Modell had claimed that one of the reasons he left Cleveland was that he had wanted to keep ownership of the team in his family but despite the king's ransom he received to turn his back on loyal Browns' fans the team ultimately did not stay in the hands of the Modell family.

    There have been plenty of bad NFL owners who put losing products on the field year after year but it is almost impossible to own an NFL team and lose money because the league is almost socialistic in the way that it divides up its various revenue streams (something that Dallas owner Jerry Jones has always resented, because he feels like his marquee franchise is generating more revenue than other teams and thus should get a bigger piece of the pie). Maybe someday someone will track down the real story of what Modell did with all of his money to go broke as an NFL owner not once, but twice; you can make fun of the Bengals, Lions or whoever else all you want but the owners of those and other sad sack NFL teams are laughing all the way to the bank with big profits: the only other modern NFL owner I can think of who went broke was Leonard Tose and he was a compulsive gambler.

    Although some people say that the infusion of cash from Bisciotti enabled Baltimore to win the Super Bowl, Newsome disagrees with that assessment: "Those (cash) problems we endured in Baltimore, we were able to overcome those (before Bisciotti's infusion). We built this team in the first three years. We were operating off the same budget when we drafted Jonathan (Ogden), Ray (Lewis), Peter Boulware, Chris (McAlister)...The ownership didn't change until 2000." Therefore, Newsome insists that if Modell had not moved the team and had kept Belichick around then the Browns would have become a Super Bowl contender: "I'm saying we would have remained a good football team because it would have started with Belichick. And all of us were there together. You can't write the story without adding Belichick to it." The "all of us" who Newsome referred to is the top notch coaching and scouting staff that Belichick assembled in Cleveland, including not only Newsome but also Nick Saban, Phil Savage, and Scott Pioli--guys who have been involved in building championship programs in the NFL and/or college.

    Since the Browns returned to the NFL in 1999, they have been a soft outfit on both sides of the ball, unable to control the line of scrimmage. That is exactly the opposite of the blueprint required to be successful in the AFC North, let alone to win a Super Bowl, as Newsome explains: "One thing you have to understand is the ability to control the line of scrimmage late in the season in this division, and I mean on both sides of the ball. Because the weather becomes a big factor. If you can't control the line of scrimmage, then you're going to have trouble winning."

    Belichick and Newsome are long gone from Cleveland. They have made their bones elsewhere and are not coming back. Browns fans can only hope that new Coach Eric Mangini--who was on Belichick's Cleveland staff in the early 1990s--will be able to build the kind of team that Belichick put together a decade and a half ago before Modell broke Cleveland's heart by ripping away the team that is the city's pride and joy.
     
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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    Game, set and match. lol

     
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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    Ask Laz.  He originally posted 12 wins in 1994. 

    In 1994, BB had the Browns winning 12 games (11 in the regular season).

    Focus on the fact you just got owned, not semantics with total wins or regular season wins in 1994, or whatever deflectionary tactic you want to use next. lol

    Just read the last column I pasted here. That's all you need to do.

    EXPOSED

    BADLY


    Therefore, Newsome insists that if Modell had not moved the team and had kept Belichick around then the Browns would have become a Super Bowl contender: "I'm saying we would have remained a good football team because it would have started with Belichick. And all of us were there together. You can't write the story without adding Belichick to it." The "all of us" who Newsome referred to is the top notch coaching and scouting staff that Belichick assembled in Cleveland, including not only Newsome but also Nick Saban, Phil Savage, and Scott Pioli--guys who have been involved in building championship programs in the NFL and/or college.

     
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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    Game, set and match.  Tears!
     
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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    Super!  Belichick acknowledges Parcells did some good things in his career.

    He's still not better than BB.  This is the point.

    You lost.  Now go back to your Tuna Parcells blow up doll and enjoy, Phatty!

    We always thought you liked the love handles.
     
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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    In Response to Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again : Shocking, some loser that claims he shivers and his knees get weak when he sees Tom Brady, is now crying after taking a beating on a forum.  Run to mommy.
    Posted by PhatRex[/QUOTE]

    Therefore, Newsome insists that if Modell had not moved the team and had kept Belichick around then the Browns would have become a Super Bowl contender: "I'm saying we would have remained a good football team because it would have started with Belichick. And all of us were there together. You can't write the story without adding Belichick to it." The "all of us" who Newsome referred to is the top notch coaching and scouting staff that Belichick assembled in Cleveland, including not only Newsome but also Nick Saban, Phil Savage, and Scott Pioli--guys who have been involved in building championship programs in the NFL and/or college.

    lol!!

    Apparently, there are a lot of loser Pats fans who will be tuning into ESPN next week at 8PM with "weak knees".

    I'd rather be a sports fan with weak knees than be a loser Jets fans who has no idea what on earth it feels like to follow winners.

    Tears!
     
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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    Oh please. Now is not the time to backpedal. I said repeatedly that 2010's ESPN poll of who is the better GM (Tuna or BB) was a joke.

    And my premise of him being overrated as GM in the cap era comes from that.

    You're such a little turd phony.

    I don';t need to boost BB by discounting Parcells. That's laughable. It's the other way around.  That's what you do because BB scorned the Jets. lol!!

    LOSER

    You just can;t take the fact the Jets are a laughingstock, 2nd rate organization that no one wants to work for.

    It's high time Parcells's GM resume is exposed for being what it is: OVERRATED

    He can think George Young with the Giants and everything else he's done as a guy who drafts or signs FAs, has been OVERRATED with little to no results.

    His record in Dallas was .500.  What's he done in Miami except for bring in a slightly better coach v.s. Cam Cameron?

    He also quits when his ego isn't rewarded fast enough. FACT.

    You lost this little debate a long, long time ago.  Your issue is you scrambled around trying to defend Parcells and/or bring down BB with his time in Cleveland and it backfired. lol

    Imagine if BB had carte blanche in Cleveland?    The bottom line is, BB had it right in Cleveland with economics, bloated contracts, how to allocate, where to invest and how to build and he's proven it in NE with total control.

    When Parcells had total control, he's never proven it.

    You lost.

     
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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    Of course you'd "take the loss". That's what you and the team you follow are good at for the past 40 years. 

    You enjoy being duped. I don't.

    lol!!

    At least my team was in a SB 3 years ago, too. Yours looks like a Pop Warner team in AFC title games two years in a row, failing to punch the ball in at the goal line on 4 tries.

    Tears!

    Nice legacy!
     
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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    How about, this idiot just simply stops stalking me on a Pats board?

    I'd say he's the one with the issues. 
     
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    Re: Parcells Quits Yet Again

    False. The only reason why Miami got the tiebreaker in 2008 for the division was because Brady went down.

    So, he's not really doing anything but taking an awful team and making it mediocre.

    Dallas was MEDIOCRE when he coached there without BB.

    Parcells improved Miami from a 1-15 team.  Wow!  They improved from 1-15? How did they ever accomplish not losing 15 games again with such poor coaching, that's all because of Parcells. lol

    How is Chad Henne working out for Billy P in Miami these days?

    Miami was not a "perpetual" loser at all. They are poorly managed by the ownership group.

    I remember when they were desperately interviewing Carroll on some island before hiring Sparano.

     
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