Patriots/Colts Comparison

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Patriots/Colts Comparison

    So yesterday was the tipping point. Up until yesterday's victory against the Jets, I did not recognize the Colts as an elite team. I thought they barely won many of their games and while that's also a good thing, I just didn't give them much credit. So many of those games were losses until the opposing team made one mistake that killed them. I guess you can also say that that's part of the Colts way of playing football: get you to play perfect, which nobody ever really does. Peyton's great and I know it but I won't fawn over him right now. Maybe we'll all appreciate his greatness once he's gone for good from the NFL.

    I still couldn't help but wonder exactly how the Colts made it to the Super Bowl again while the Patriots almost look like has-been's. Have they drafted that much better than us? Have they been better at signing the right pieces through free agency? Is it management? Both organizations started their run at almost the same time and it seems like the Colts have sustained it while we're almost in a heavy re-building mode.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Caesar1177. Show Caesar1177's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    Simple - if one receiver has 123 receptions, you are cooked. It shows a lack of diversity. Take the Colts of 2002. Marvin Harrison had over 140 catches. And the Colts lost 41-0 ton the Jets. 

    The Pats D stunk this year. But they still could have won 12+ games with that defense if the offense wasn't so predictable and stale. Look at the numbers for Garcon and Collie during the year. Far better than what the Pats had for their 3-4 receivers. More options creates problems for even the best Defense. Think about the NO game - they took Moss and Welker out of the game. So we had to go to Aiken. He had 7 catches for 90 yards, most of them coming on one catch. Yesterday, the Jets took Wayne and Clark out of the game - and Collie and Garcon killed them.

    So the Pats need more WR's
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    CaptainZdeno, very good point about the trenches. And I think so many times this year I realized the Patriots aren't too far off if they could develop some consistency on both lines.

    Caesar, another good point. I think Hoody tried to address that but did so economically and conservatively by getting Galloway and Lewis. Galloway never got on the same page with Brady and a lot of that can be attributed to Brady's comfort level at the beginning of the season. I think the loss of Gaffney is still monumental at this point. You can't overlook the chemistry he had developed with Brady.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    "Any thoughts?"

    Those boobs in your avatar aren't real, but if I were in BB's shoes, it wouldn't bother me in the least.

    "I still couldn't help but wonder exactly how the Colts made it to the Super Bowl again while the Patriots almost look like has-been's."


    Seriously?

    Colts Draft History
    Pats Draft History

    "Have they drafted that much better than us?"

    Yes.

    "Have they been better at signing the right pieces through free agency?"

    Yes.

    "Is it management?"

    Yes.

    "Both organizations started their run at almost the same time and it seems like the Colts have sustained it while we're almost in a heavy re-building mode."

    Wrong. Indy didn't "get it" until 2005, when 5 of their first 6 draft picks that year were on defense.

    Indy's 4-3 system is simple and can be staffed quite easily. While Indy was improving their D, BB was still looking for the tall, big, fast, can-handle-Olinemen-superhuman LBs that came once in a blue moon.

    The Pats need to rediscover the FB, the 2-TE formations, and the pass rush. This 75% shotgun crap must cease. Not only does it make the offense predictiable (gee, think TB is gonna try to throw to Moss?), it's getting TB killed. Brady is taking too many hits in this stage of his career.

    At least they fired (yes fired) Dean Pees. That was a good start.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Calmy. Show Calmy's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    The Colts D never gets much credit but they are a sound group.  They are able to get good pressure with 4 (Mathis, Freeney) which allows them to drop 7 and that allows them to make lots of playes in the passing game.  The Pats do not have that kind of consistent pass rush.  The Colts also seem to do a much better job plugging WR in and having success.  Maybe that is a result of drafting, maybe it is coaching but the way Garcon,Collie and Gonzalez(last year) came out of nowhere, they are clearly doing something right.

    Colts also do a better job in pass protection than the Pats.  Peyton deserves some credit for that, as he really is the best in the league at reading blitzes and adjusting protection.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    On one had, Indy has been better at drafting and developing talent to fit their schemes, on the other hand their coaching and personnel staffs haven't been raided on a regular basis like it has been in NE.....
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hooterdawg. Show hooterdawg's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    The Colts go to the SB the first year Dungy is gone. One-and-Dungy held the Colts back with his conservative approach to the game. The Colts are MVP Manning's team, and the new HC Caldwell just stays out of the way as much as possible. Polian and Manning provide stability to that team...while the Pats have suffered attrrition in presonnel from the front office to the roster.  The Patriots are not a stable team right now.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from can-pats-fan. Show can-pats-fan's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    I think all the Manning Brady comparisons will finally be over.  Manning can lead, breathes football and controls an offence.  Brady has lost it, can't lead any longer, heck Edleman had more passion tham Brady did this past playoffs.  Comparison over.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison


    Well can-pats-fan,
    I have to respectfully disagree.  When Manning had his little Bursa sack problem, he couldn't win a game.
    Brady on the other hand has played this whole year with knee, shoulder, finger and rib injuries.  Please also add the depleted talent issue to that list.
    I'd still take Brady any day.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bdcjoker. Show bdcjoker's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    what is there to compare? the pats svck and the colts are great. what is funny today?....congress?, your life?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    Whats with the "Brady was injured" excuse.  Didn't Belichick refute that claim?  And Brady's knees are no excuse either.  Pats fans were on this board in February/March gushing about Brady running and throwing without issue.  Everyone said Brady would be 100% ready and the pundits agreed.  The pats were the odds on favorites to win the superbowl at the beginning of the year. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    There's a similar discussion going on about Pats/Colts with some very good answers there also.

    Remember in 1990 when the Pats went 1-15, our lone victory was over the Colts. Thank you Colts!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

         I was going to post on this subject...but I don't think I can improve on this post by Cuban Pete: 

    "Any thoughts?"

    Those boobs in your avatar aren't real, but if I were in BB's shoes, it wouldn't bother me in the least.

    "I still couldn't help but wonder exactly how the Colts made it to the Super Bowl again while the Patriots almost look like has-been's."


    Seriously?

    Colts Draft History
    Pats Draft History

    "Have they drafted that much better than us?"

    Yes.

    "Have they been better at signing the right pieces through free agency?"

    Yes.

    "Is it management?"

    Yes.

    "Both organizations started their run at almost the same time and it seems like the Colts have sustained it while we're almost in a heavy re-building mode."

    Wrong. Indy didn't "get it" until 2005, when 5 of their first 6 draft picks that year were on defense.

    Indy's 4-3 system is simple and can be staffed quite easily. While Indy was improving their D, BB was still looking for the tall, big, fast, can-handle-Olinemen-superhuman LBs that came once in a blue moon.

    The Pats need to rediscover the FB, the 2-TE formations, and the pass rush. This 75% shotgun crap must cease. Not only does it make the offense predictable (gee, think TB is gonna try to throw to Moss?), it's getting TB killed. Brady is taking too many hits in this stage of his career.

    At least they fired (yes fired) Dean Pees. That was a good start. 

    RESPONSE: As usual, words of wisdom from that wily ol' sage from Havana, Cuban Pete. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SteveWright. Show SteveWright's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    Wow ap, i can't help but feel someone hijacked your identity. in case it's really you, though, i'll add my 2 cents ...

    1. coaching. colts have had consistency over the years, whereas pats coaching staff has been cherry picked. it's hard to put a value on that. don't sell caldwell short. he fired the DC and special teams coach, and look how much better the colts are for it. his coaching is the reason the colts didn't flop after resting for the last month of regular season.
    2. draft picks. or maybe pick. it's almost a crap shoot, you never know how your picks will pan out. maroney was just a bust. people talk this and that about addai but he can block, and also run when the D allows it and the o-line decides to perform. maroney was just a bust, and that's really nobody's fault.
    3. depth. out of necessity, the colts have to develop talent, they're small/medium market. they can't bring in a moss or welker or peppers when competing with the sexiness (and $) of larger markets. so when gonzalez goes out, there is someone ready to take his place.
    4. polian knows his stuff. as already mentioned, he took bills to 4 super bowls. he's an old-timer who knows how to build and sustain a franchise.
    5. manning has matured. before, teams could get into his head. after a million snaps at qb it's hard to pull the wool over his eyes.

    just like draft picks, it was a convergence of good fortune for the colts. what do the pats need to do to get their mojo back? they've already started by getting rid of pees, but the pats need to do a full top-to-bottom evaluation of their systems and come up with a long-term (five-year?) plan for where they want this team to be. and then they need to implement it and stick to it. only then will they restore the luster to the franchise. because make no mistake, the jets look like they'll be for real for the next few years, the afc east won't be a gimme anymore for the pats like it has been lately.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    Dogggggggggggggggggggg
    What are you talking about?  Brady's injuries were listed every week on the report.
    What BB was refuting was the Report that Brady had 3 broken ribs.  Maybe he only had 1 or 2.
    What does the Pats being picked to win the SB have to do with any thing?
    All I was stating was that when Manning had his Bursa sack problem, which is a very minor problem, he lost his first 4 games last year.  And yes, it was mentioned numerous times as an excuse.  Brady had been playing with numerous and severe injuries and there's where there is no comparison.  The reconstructed knee compared to a bursa sack is no comparison.  Do you get it now?
    BTW, Where did Peyton learn that drop to the ground in the fetal position move, prior to even being touched?  LMFAO
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SMEngmann. Show SMEngmann's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    1)  Coaching Staff consistency.  Manning has had the same OC his entire career, Brady has essentially had 3.  NE has had 3 defensive coordinators over the same period, 2 ST Coaches, and only Pepper Johnson, Scarnecchia and Fears have been here Belichick's whole tenure.  Lots to be said on that, NE's 2 10-6 seasons came with new coordinators.

    2)  Rigid enforcement of Illegal Contact and DPI rules: It happened in 2004, before that was enforced, NE always had the advantage, after, Manning's been more-or-less unstoppable.  It has also, IMO, led to the NE passing offense evolving as it has

    3)  Immediate impact in draft:  Hard to fully evaluate BB's drafts considering much of the body of work is yet to come in the form of impact picks this year and next, and the fact that Welker and Moss came by way of traded picks.  But it's clear that Colts picks have had more immediate impact early on.

    I think the Colts success is somewhat of a red herring in terms of how they do things organizationally, because Peyton Manning is so good at what he does and the league is built for him.  Take away Manning, and this Colts team is lucky to win 5 games.  Last year, NE proved the strength of the organization and the quality of the coaching staff by putting together 11 wins with Matt Cassel running the show.  I don't think Indy could've done that without Manning.  So I don't think Indy's the model organization by any means, I still think it is NE, and I think addition by subtraction in dropping Pees will help as will the development of the offensive coaching staff.  To say NE is in "rebuilding" mode when they won 10 games, and probably could've easily won 13 or 14, is wrong.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    Love how a bunch of Pats fans are having an intelligent discussion about the strengths of the Colts organization and its the lone Colts fan in the discussion that wrecks it with a trollish focus on Brady's injuries (it's called major knee surgery in case you were confused). The thread is about the Colts, troll, try to keep up. 

    Back on the topic of the thread, agreed on all counts regarding the Colts better drafting, that much is not open to question. Colts have a better D line and O line. Being able to apply a pass rush without blitzing is huge. 

    Those who are amazed the Colts keep winning should remember that Pats were once in that same group. I fully expect the Colts to win the Super Bowl also.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: Patriots/Colts Comparison

    BTS - Yes, blame me.  Here's the point.  You guys allow yourselves every excuse to explain your loss while every other team is not allowed them. 

    Now to the comparison - Don't get ticked. 

    1.  Generally, I would say the Pats have had the best personnel record over the last decade, but for the pats it is not all about drafting.  The pats have nearly every year (maybe every year) made selective veteran free agent acquisitions.  Over the years this has worked really well because hungry skilled vets mixed in with core vets has been a good recipie.  In my opinion, it did not work this year because (at least on D) the core vets are gone except for Warren and Wilfork.  The additions couldn't be team leaders because they didn't have history and the the chemistry caved. 

    2.  the colts rely almost exclusively on drafting.  The veteran fa's of any significance that they have picked up over the decade are: Corey Simon (didn't work), Anthony McFarland (to take simon's place- worked), vinateri (worked), Stover (worked).  Because the colts draft and keep their players (at least until they are let go via fa), the chemistry will always be there whether the talent is or not.  It also means no immediate fixes if some area is somewhat lacking. 

    3.  the pats had something really special with their core d over the decade and that cannot be easily replaced. 

    4.  everyone wants to talk about the great receivers manning has had and I won't deny it, but there have been plenty of first round busts at WR - between 2000-06 about half of the 1st rd WR's did not deliver to their draft status.  I am not sure Gonzalez ever will.  Its all about integrating these guys into the system, and Manning does that.  I don't know if Brady does.
     

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