Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

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    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD :      Please specify your "swings and misses" on defense, over the past 3 years.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Of course that excludes this recent draft. By miss I mean a high draft pick that did not do any more than be a ho hum starter - if that. Those aren't the kind of player defenses that can win a SB are made of.

    Cunningham, Spikes, Chung, Brace, Butler, Wheatley, McKenzie and Crable would be misses.

    McCourty and Mayo would be hits.

    That's 91% of a defensive 11, drafted high in 3 straight drafts (72% if you subtract Crable and McKenzie, 3rd rounders.)

    That is also a 20% success rate of choosing outstanding players with high draft picks over that time (or 25% if only rounds 1 + 2).

    Despite throwing immense resources at the problem (which is only a problem because of failures even further back in time) the defense is not of SB quality by any means. The 4 years prior to that the D was largely ignored with only Wilfork and Merriweather to show for it. Guys like Kareem Brown, Hobbs and Hill were sprinkled in during that dearth. No wonder the D has gone to hell.

    And despite this we just went through a draft loaded with front 7 guys and we come away with an iffy CB, nothing for the front 7 at all and are drafting OLs too high plus a QB we don't need. That isn't the skill of a genius. Frankly, I suspect the average fan could have done as well, or better - that's how lame it is.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : Of course that excludes this recent draft. By miss I mean a high draft pick that did not do any more than be a ho hum starter - if that. Those aren't the kind of player defenses that can win a SB are made of. Cunningham, Spikes, Chung, Brace, Butler, Wheatley, McKenzie and Crable would be misses. McCourty and Mayo would be hits. That's 91% of a defensive 11, drafted high in 3 straight drafts (72% if you subtract Crable and McKenzie, 3rd rounders.) That is also a 20% success rate of choosing outstanding players with high draft picks over that time (or 25% if only rounds 1 + 2). Despite throwing immense resources at the problem (which is only a problem because of failures even further back in time) the defense is not of SB quality by any means. The 4 years prior to that the D was largely ignored with only Wilfork and Merriweather to show for it. Guys like Kareem Brown, Hobbs and Hill were sprinkled in during that dearth. No wonder the D has gone to hell. And despite this we just went through a draft loaded with front 7 guys and we come away with an iffy CB, nothing for the front 7 at all and are drafting OLs too high plus a QB we don't need. That isn't the skill of a genius. Frankly, I suspect the average fan could have done as well, or better - that's how lame it is.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    "And despite this we just went through a draft loaded with front 7 guys and we come away with an iffy CB, nothing for the front 7 at all and are drafting OLs too high plus a QB we don't need. That isn't the skill of a genius. Frankly, I suspect the average fan could have done as well, or better - that's how lame it is. "

    i'm just laughing...
    the thing about humor is, its funny when there's some truth in it.
     
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    n Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]I agree with these guys http://60maxpowero.com/draftermath3.html http://60maxpowero.com/draftermath1.html http://60maxpowero.com/draftermath2.html
    Posted by dna53[/QUOTE]

    I have a tendency to think grading the draft just by the players picked is faulty.  Remember that during 2003, 2004 2005 we were in contention for a SB.  Who during these years are you going to cut on D and replace with a 3+ round draft pick?  We retooled in 2006 and 2007 due to the new Napolian rules and were 2 minutes away from winning another SB in 2007, so did BB's draft system work?  Was Moss & Welker worth the picks we gave for them?  And by giving away the draft picks for Moss & Welker did our draft for 2007 suffer? 

    I would rather be a contender every year then be told we had a great draft!

    I think BabePqarilli does have a point thought.  Just look at what his team the yets have done over the last 4 or 5 drafts.  They are by far the better drafters.  And it really shows in all of the Division titles, Conference championships and Super Bowls that they have won over that time.
     
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    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : Of course that excludes this recent draft. By miss I mean a high draft pick that did not do any more than be a ho hum starter - if that.
     
    RESPONSE: The Patriots are a perennial playoff team. Any draft pick who becomes a starter for them must be considered a success.

    Those aren't the kind of player defenses that can win a SB are made of. Cunningham, Spikes, Chung, Brace, Butler, Wheatley, McKenzie and Crable would be misses.
     
    RESPONSE: Cunningham a "miss"? He was a low second round draft choice, who ended up starting at year end...and showed signs of being an effective pass-rusher. Yet, after have such a rookie season, you advocate writing him off? 
         Brandon Spikes became a starting ILB. He has the physical attributes 3-4 teams look for in a inside LB. He's big, tough, and has a  mean streak. The only question about him is his off-field antics. But, for a low second round pick...you want to write him off, too?
          No one has been more critical of Patrick Chung than I. But, there's no denying that the guy made huge strides last season. He was the Patriots' answer to Troy Polamalu, until leg injuries hampered his effectiveness. over the second half of the season.
          No ready to write off Brace yet. But, he needs to step this year. Darius Butler., Terrence Wheatley, McKenzie and the forgettable Shawn Crable were busts.   


    McCourty and Mayo would be hits.
     
    RESPONSE: Goes without saying. But, remember, McCourty was a very unpopular pick...much as Logan Mankins was in 2005: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mccourty-remembers-not-being-a-popular-patriots-pick/

    That's 91% of a defensive 11, drafted high in 3 straight drafts (72% if you subtract Crable and McKenzie, 3rd rounders.) That is also a 20% success rate of choosing outstanding players with high draft picks over that time (or 25% if only rounds 1 + 2).
     
    RESPONSE: As I indicated above, I challenge these stats. I don't consider Cunningham, Spikes, and Chung as "busts", or "failures".

    Despite throwing immense resources at the problem (which is only a problem because of failures even further back in time) the defense is not of SB quality by any means.
     
    RESPONSE: But isn't this what you were calling for this year...for the Pats to throw their immense draft resources at their problems on defense? Isn't their failure to do that your main criticism of their 2011 draft?

    The 4 years prior to that the D was largely ignored with only Wilfork and Merriweather to show for it. Guys like Kareem Brown, Hobbs and Hill were sprinkled in during that dearth. No wonder the D has gone to hell.
     
    RESPONSE: Your view of the attempts by the Pats to rebuild their "D" is warped. There are three ways to strengthen a team...through the draft, through free agency, or through trade. The Pats' "D" in the decade from 2001-2011 was built around former #1 pick Ty Law, and former top 10 overall, #1 picks, Richard Seymour and Willie McGinest. The rest of the "big contributors" came from various sources: #1 picks Wilfolk and Ty Warren, draft picks Lawyer Milloy, TeBucky Jones, Asante Samuel, Jarod Mayo, Brandon Meriweather, James anders, Patrick Chung, Ellis Hobbs, free agent signees Mike Vrabel, Rosevelt Colvin, Rodney Harrison, Ted Washington, Keith Traylor, Leigh Bodden, Rob Ninkovich, Adalius Thomas, Gerrard Warren, and Roman Pfieffer. You will note that the keystones of the Pats' "D" were former top 10 picks Seymour and McGinest, and #1 pick Ty Law. Aside from Mayo in 2008, the Pats haven't had a top 10 pick in a decade.      

    And despite this we just went through a draft loaded with front 7 guys and we come away with an iffy CB, nothing for the front 7 at all and are drafting OLs too high plus a QB we don't need. That isn't the skill of a genius. Frankly, I suspect the average fan could have done as well, or better - that's how lame it is.

    RESPONSE: Sorry...but you're not making sense. Job one on this team is to protect Tom Brady. The Pats badly needed a LT, with Matt Light an UFA, and 33 years old. At pick #17, who would have been a better selection than Nate Solder? 
         The trade of the 28th pick for the 56th overall pick and the Saints' #1 in 2012 represented good value. Apparently, the Pats felt better about making this deal, than in taking DE Muhammad Wilkerson, from Temple. 
          Taking CB Ras-I Dowling at #33 addressed the defense, though not the pass-rushing problem. Obviously, BB thought that Dowling was a better prospect than either Brooks Reed, or Jabaal Sheard. From that point on, outside of the off-field challenged Justin Houston, there were no other top pass-rush prospects available. 

          What it all comes down to is this: do you advocate that the Pats draft an OLB because they need one, and pass on a higher rated player on their board, in so doing? The Pats have been a "take the best player available" type team, rather than a team that drafts solely for need. This to me seems to be the best way to approach a draft. The alleged "experts who gave the Pats high draft grades seemed to judge the Pats'  draft on the players they selected, without regard to need...while the Mel Kipers of the world view the draft primarily as a vehicle to fill needs. 
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    1st 2 picks=A
    5th round pick=A
    The rest of the picks=FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    RESPONSE: The Patriots are a perennial playoff team. Any draft pick who becomes a starter for them must be considered a success.

    Being a success is nice. But it don't win SBs. Being good does.
     
    RESPONSE: Cunningham a "miss"? He was a low second round draft choice, who ended up starting at year end...and showed signs of being an effective pass-rusher. Yet, after have such a rookie season, you advocate writing him off? 
         Brandon Spikes became a starting ILB. He has the physical attributes 3-4 teams look for in a inside LB. He's big, tough, and has a  mean streak. The only question about him is his off-field antics. But, for a low second round pick...you want to write him off, too?
          No one has been more critical of Patrick Chung than I. But, there's no denying that the guy made huge strides last season. He was the Patriots' answer to Troy Polamalu, until leg injuries hampered his effectiveness. over the second half of the season.
          No ready to write off Brace yet. But, he needs to step this year. Darius Butler., Terrence Wheatley, McKenzie and the forgettable Shawn Crable were busts.   


    I didn't say I was writing anybody off. I'm saying they have not proven to be worth their high draft choice to this point (which is all we have to go by, right?).
     
    RESPONSE: Goes without saying. But, remember, McCourty was a very unpopular pick...much as Logan Mankins was in 2005: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mccourty-remembers-not-being-a-popular-patriots-pick/

    What does it matter if they were popular or not? We are talking about results here, not about if fans liked the picks.
     
    RESPONSE: As I indicated above, I challenge these stats. I don't consider Cunningham, Spikes, and Chung as "busts", or "failures".

    I said he missed on the picks considering how high they were. I didn't say anybody was a bust.
     
    RESPONSE: But isn't this what you were calling for this year...for the Pats to throw their immense draft resources at their problems on defense? Isn't their failure to do that your main criticism of their 2011 draft?

    I have been calling for him to fix the D for years. FIX IT. Not draft warm bodies that put on the uniform.
     
    RESPONSE: Your view of the attempts by the Pats to rebuild their "D" is warped. There are three ways to strengthen a team...through the draft, through free agency, or through trade. The Pats' "D" in the decade from 2001-2011 was built around former #1 pick Ty Law, and former top 10 overall, #1 picks, Richard Seymour and Willie McGinest. The rest of the "big contributors" came from various sources: #1 picks Wilfolk and Ty Warren, draft picks Lawyer Milloy, TeBucky Jones, Asante Samuel, Jarod Mayo, Brandon Meriweather, James anders, Patrick Chung, Ellis Hobbs, free agent signees Mike Vrabel, Rosevelt Colvin, Rodney Harrison, Ted Washington, Keith Traylor, Leigh Bodden, Rob Ninkovich, Adalius Thomas, Gerrard Warren, and Roman Pfieffer. You will note that the keystones of the Pats' "D" were former top 10 picks Seymour and McGinest, and #1 pick Ty Law. Aside from Mayo in 2008, the Pats haven't had a top 10 pick in a decade.      

    It is your view that is warped. It is you that make the excuses for BB not acquiring optimun players. He is the one that keeps trsding down his picks to stockpile 2nd rounders that he will use to draft warm bodies or busts.

    RESPONSE: Sorry...but you're not making sense. Job one on this team is to protect Tom Brady. The Pats badly needed a LT, with Matt Light an UFA, and 33 years old. At pick #17, who would have been a better selection than Nate Solder? 
         The trade of the 28th pick for the 56th overall pick and the Saints' #1 in 2012 represented good value. Apparently, the Pats felt better about making this deal, than in taking DE Muhammad Wilkerson, from Temple. 
          Taking CB Ras-I Dowling at #33 addressed the defense, though not the pass-rushing problem. Obviously, BB thought that Dowling was a better prospect than either Brooks Reed, or Jabaal Sheard. From that point on, outside of the off-field challenged Justin Houston, there were no other top pass-rush prospects available. 

          What it all comes down to is this: do you advocate that the Pats draft an OLB because they need one, and pass on a higher rated player on their board, in so doing? The Pats have been a "take the best player available" type team, rather than a team that drafts solely for need. This to me seems to be the best way to approach a draft. The alleged "experts who gave the Pats high draft grades seemed to judge the Pats'  draft on the players they selected, without regard to need...while the Mel Kipers of the world view the draft primarily as a vehicle to fill needs.


    You are not giving enough importance to the Brady factor. That factor makes drafting for value somewhat less viable at present. Because the last half decade, when drafting for value was more viable has been squandered on too many blah high draft picks, the window for BB screwing around has closed.
     
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    [QUOTE]I am still laughing at him mentioning Kareem Brown and Marquise Hill. As if Hill (who passed away) was supposed to supplant Seymour, Warren or even Jarvis Green? Maybe he would have, but we'll never know. Kareem Brown was a late rd pick in a weak draft. This is like being angry that Kade Weston isn't an All Pro.  You can always tell a troll when they are totally irrational throwing crap at the wall.  I find it fascinating watching Babe Parilli and other trolls scramble in desperation trying to support their mentally disabled premise. It's only when you call them out, do they look completely stupid. Like, in this case here. lol
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    You truly are the poster child for why Pat's fans are so reviled. You have zero objectivity and make excuses beyond the pale of all reason.

    I mentioned Brown and Hill in the context of meager attempts over a 4 year period to retain quality in the Pat's D.  But it is entirely impossible for you to admit to one sloitary thing no matter how honestly presented that would scratch the surface of your mindless and childish notion that BB is the greatest football mind that ever was in every aspect of running a team. He isn't and only an idiot would not at least see a glimpse of that.

    But at least fans of other teams can see that there are a few, a precious few, of us Pat's fans that can actually admit BB was a fool for spygate, that every scrub on our team is not an all-pro just waiting to happen and some of us do realize we can't keep living off the glory of a SB run that was 6 long years ago.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : You truly are the poster child for why Pat's fans are so reviled. You have zero objectivity and make excuses beyond the pale of all reason. I mentioned Brown and Hill in the context of meager attempts over a 4 year period to retain quality in the Pat's D.  But it is entirely impossible for you to admit to one sloitary thing no matter how honestly presented that would scratch the surface of your mindless and childish notion that BB is the greatest football mind that ever was in every aspect of running a team. He isn't and only an idiot would not at least see a glimpse of that. But at least fans of other teams can see that there are a few, a precious few, of us Pat's fans that can actually admit BB was a fool for spygate, that every scrb on our team is not an all-pro just waiting to happen and some of us do realize we can't keep living off the glory of a SB run that was 6 long years ago.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE] Troooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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    Regarding the "Brady factor", Mike Reiss has a good point,

    Joe Strachan (Bedford): What do the Patriots need to change to start winning in the playoffs? We had one of the better teams going into the playoffs and we couldn't even win one game. Has it become a psychological thing losing three straight or are we not preparing enough?

    Mike Reiss: Joe, I'd start at quarterback. While there is no other quarterback I could imagine the Patriots want than Tom Brady, his last three playoff performances haven't been up the high standard he's set. Another year of experience for some of the younger players on the roster should help as well.
     
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    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]Regarding the "Brady factor", Mike Reiss has a good point, Joe Strachan (Bedford) : What do the Patriots need to change to start winning in the playoffs? We had one of the better teams going into the playoffs and we couldn't even win one game. Has it become a psychological thing losing three straight or are we not preparing enough? Mike Reiss: Joe, I'd start at quarterback. While there is no other quarterback I could imagine the Patriots want than Tom Brady, his last three playoff performances haven't been up the high standard he's set. Another year of experience for some of the younger players on the roster should help as well.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    As usual, Reiss is off the mark.

    Certainly Brady's performance in the SB against the Giants was not steller largely due to the abysmal O-line play. Yet he did drive the team to what would be a winning score when the game was on the line, only to see the D allow a mediocre QB to drive his team down the field and score a TD to take away the win.

    The game against the Ravens was certainly one of Brady's worst playoff performances ever. But then the whole team stank out the stadium that day and blaming Brady alone for the loss makes little sense.

    His performance against the jets this last season was statistically in line with his career playoff numbers which are among the best, so blaming him for that when the D allowed a 70 career passer to throw up a 127 seems way of the mark as well.

    In essence Reiss' assessment seems deeply flawed and simply an attempt to avoid mentioning the real problem. That is, the D has been allowed to become a shadow of its former self through the unwise player choices of the Pat's GM.
     
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    Babe, I believe you are overstating the problems on defense. It is extremely hard to get to the Super Bowl let alone win the darn thing. Even with the number one ranked defense in 2003 they allowed 29 points to Delhomme and the Panthers. They were fortunate to win those trophys even when they had a dominant D. They won because they were a great team not because they had a great D. They won because players like Vinatieri, Branch, Brady, Rodney and Willie made plays when they needed to be made.

    To get back to the Super Bowl and win it they'll need players to step it up when it matters most. In the last two playoff games they have been prone to making too many mistakes. And that includes Brady. He's not the reason for the playoff losses, there plenty of blame to go around, but he needs to play better as does the rest of the team, offense, defense and special teams alike.
     
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    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : As usual, Reiss is off the mark. Certainly Brady's performance in the SB against the Giants was not steller largely due to the abysmal O-line play. Yet he did drive the team to what would be a winning score when the game was on the line, only to see the D allow a mediocre QB to drive his team down the field and score a TD to take away the win. The game against the Ravens was certainly one of Brady's worst playoff performances ever. But then the whole team stank out the stadium that day and blaming Brady alone for the loss makes little sense. His performance against the jets this last season was statistically in line with his career playoff numbers which are among the best, so blaming him for that when the D allowed a 70 career passer to throw up a 127 seems way of the mark as well. In essence Reiss' assessment seems deeply flawed and simply an attempt to avoid mentioning the real problem. That is, the D has been allowed to become a shadow of its former self through the unwise player choices of the Pat's GM.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Babe - I realize it's useless for me to waste my time trying to respond to you as it's obvious, as others have already pointed out, that you are either clueless or a Jets troll.  But I will take one shot at it and state a few points. 

    Ever hear of "any given Sunday?"  It's even more true in the playoffs.  If you have followed football as long as you have (I never saw the Babe play, Joe Kapp was QB when I started following the Pats), you should know how difficult it is to win a SB - it takes Talent, Skill, Coaching and LUCK.  NFL playoff team are all talented and skilled and have good coaching (exception Jets) and sometimes the ball doesn't bounce your way and the other team wins.  Just think, if the Giants don't punt to Jackson at the end of their game, the Packers don't even make the playoffs, and thus don't win the SB.  That's how luck plays in the equation.  And I could list dozens of other examples (like Hamilton's inadvertant roughing penalty).

    As has been said ad nauseum, SB 2007 was not the fault of the defense!   They gave up 17 points!  The last NY drive was luck and the bounce of the ball (and don't blame the drive on the last play).  I won't repeat again all of what happened on that last drive but there were many plays the defense played correctly but didn't get the corrosponding results (like the blatent OPI not called on 4th down that would have ended the game).  Again, the Jets loss was more the breaks of the game and not that the Jets were the better team. 

    And again, as has been repeated over and over, all three losses were primarily caused by weak OL play (how many more times will Suggs strip sack Brady).  So BB, you know the guy with the most wins the past decade, addresses the OL problem, and you're having a cow.

    So I have a suggestion for you.  I know you're an amatuer GM so get a job as GM for any team not named the Patriots (when you get the job let us know who you are so we can be sure to follow your success).  I'm not sure what is your criteria for success (as a Jets fan it's obviously isn't SB wins, conference titles, etc. I'm assuming it's high draft grades from Mel Kieper).   Then continue to visit this forum as we will be sure to give you the advice you need to succeed. 

    By the way, the reason the Jets are the Jets (no titles in 30 years), is because they let Kieper determine their draft picks, with corrosponding results.


     
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    In Response to Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]     Of course, without seeing the players selected perform on the field, it's silly to access a draft class. But, on a basis of value, here is my accessment:  1.) PICK #17: OT Nate Solder, Colorado:   http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=2431      Though it's true that the Pats have a great need at DE, there was an equal or, arguably, a greater need at LT. Matt Light is an UFA, and turns 33 in June. At this stage of his career, he's not worthy of the big money that he may be demanding. So, when BB had a shot at  Solder, a 6'8", 319 pound dancing bear of a man, with all the attributes you look for in an top NFL LT, he took him. The LT is of vital importance to a successful offense, second only to QB. GRADE: A; 2.) PICK #28: Traded to Saints for the 56th overall pick in 2011, and the Saint's #1 pick in 2012: The question here is, whether BB got sufficient value for this pick? The Pats dropped 28 spots in making this deal. A look at the NFL draft-value chart shows that the numerical value for the 28th overall pick is 660 points. The 56th overall selection is valued at 340 points. What's the Saints' #1 pick in 2012 going to be worth? Likely the same as the 56th overall pick is today. Why? Because when a team waits a year to make use of a pick, the present value of a #1 pick in 2012 is considered to be worth a second rounder today...a seconder rounder in 2012 is considered to be worth a 3rd rounder today, and so on. So...in making this trade, it appears that the Pats did nothing more than break even.      That being the case, why did the Patriots pass on a much needed 3-4 DE, Muhammad Wilkerson? Wilkerson would have filled a major need, and would not have gone to their chief rival, the New York Jets. The answer must be the BB did not think much of Wilkerson as a player. If Wilkerson flops in NY, the trade should be rated as a good one. But, if Wilkerson pans out, this trade could be a disaster.      As for Mark Ingram, the Patriots had no intention of taking him at #28. BB determined that there was equal or greater value at RB in the second and third rounds. Ingram is another player that bears watching, in order to determine whether the Pats got value in this trade. The bottom line is that the Pats apparently didn't view  any player available to them at the 28th pick, including Ingram and Wilkerson, to be worthy of such a high pick. Time will tell. GRADE: C; 3.) PICK #33: CB Ras-I Dowling, Virginia:   http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2156        Dowling wasn't ranked nearly as high as he was selected. But, he has all the attributes a team looks for in a starting CB. He's tall, standing over 6'1", has good speed, and good ball skills. The rub on him is that he's injury prone. He's suffered through a fractured left ankle, a hamstring strain, and an injury to his right knee. The first thing that popped into my head when the Pats chose him was former Pats' second round pick, Terrence (steel rod in wrist) Wheatley...and we all painfully remember how he turned out.       In taking Dowling, BB passed on edge rushers, OLB/DE Brooks Reed (taken by Houston, at #41), and DE/OLB Jabaal Sheard (taken by Cleveland, at #37). If either Reed or Sheard evolves into the second coming of Clay Matthews, depending on how well Dowling plays, this pick must go down as a disaster...and could cost the Pats a championship or two. Due to his horrid injury history, Dowling is a major gamble. It seems that that Pats could have gotten more value for so high a pick.    GRADE: D 4.) PICK #56: RB Shane Vereen, California:   http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2703          Say goodbye to Kevin Faulk. But, this was inevitable. Faulk is 34 years old, and needed to be replaced. What made Vareen a Patriot is that he's an excellent receiver, coming out of the backfield. He hauled in 74 passes during his career at Cal.. But, didn't the Pats have Faulk's replacement already, in Danny Woodhead? All purpose power RB Mikel Leshoure was available at #56, and was taken by the Lions at pick #57.  Couldn't Leshoure have been the second coming of Corey Dillon? Couldn't he have backed up, or eventually replaced, BLGE? Couldn't Vareen had been had at pick #60?      The tandum of Vereen and Woodhead could serve to prolong each others' careers. But, the Pats were in a position where they could have strengthened their RB position immeasurably, by adding both Vereen and Leshoure. WR was also a need...and guys like Torrey Smith (taken at #58 by the Ravens), Randall Cobb (taken at #64  by the Packers), and Greg Little (taken at #59 by Cleveland), all were available at pick #56. Vereen is a good player. But, he likely could have been had in the third round. BB could have, and should have, gotten a lot more value out of this pick: GRADE: D; 4.) PICK #60: Traded To the Houston Texans, for the 73rd and 138th overall picks: Pats could have taken a top WR, or RB Mikel Leshoure at #56. Then, they could have used this pick to draft Shane Vereen: GRADE: D; 5.) PICK #73: RB Stevan Ridley, LSU: http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2839         The Pats could have taken RB Leshoure, or a quality WR, as described above. Ridley is a power runner, who may turn out to be a good player. But, he likely could have been had in the 4th or 5th round. Again, BB could have, and should have, gotten more value for this pick: GRADE: D;        6.) PICK #74: QB Ryan Mallett, Arkansas: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/michael_rosenberg/04/26/ryan.mallett/index.html         I have always felt that Mallett was the best QB in this draft class. But, there's got to be a compelling reason why the QB starved teams have passed on him. There likely are some serious, yet unpublicized issues, involving this kid. Nonetheless, he's  a kid,  who may be salvageable. If so, the Patriots have drafted the heir apparent to Tom Brady. Mallett has loads of talent, and physical attributes that can't be coached. An excellent gamble, at this point in the draft; GRADE: A;  7.) PICKS #92 & #125: Traded to the Oakland Raiders, in return for the Raiders' 219th overall selection, and their second round draft choice in 2012: This trade, along with BB's decisions on picks #33, 56, and 60 above, indicates that he sees the 2011 draft class as weak. BB could have used this selection on a needed OG/C. But, a second round draft choice is a valuable chip for next season.  GRADE: B; 8.) PICK #138: OG/OT Marcus Cannon, TCU: Huge man, who should become an eventual starter at RG for the Pats. Health concerns pushed Cannon back to the 5th round. But, there supposedly is a 90% chance that Cannon will experience a complete recovery. The Pats might "redshirt" Cannon this season, by placing him on the physically unable to perform list...much as they did with Brandon Tate. Excellent value on this 5th round selection, that fills a need: GRADE: A;    9.) PICK #159: TE Lee Smith, Marshall:   http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2628      In Smith, the Pats hope they found another Christian Fauria...a good back-up with dependable hands, who doesn't mind blocking. Solid 5th round pick; GRADE: B; 10.) PICK #194: DE/OLB Markell Carter, Central Arkansas: http://cdsdraft.com/profile.php?id=5676        At last, BB drafts a 3-4 OLB! Borderline prospect, as one would expect with such a low pick. Was not expected to get drafted. Why not throw away the pick, if you're going to waste it? TE Virgil Green, a Aaron Hernandez type, would have been worth a look; GRADE: C-;  11.) PICK #219: DB Malcolm Williams, TCU: http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2011/04/analysis_of_7th.html      Yawn!! This guy couldn't even start for TCU! GRADE: F;       SUMMARY:  I wish BB had gotten more value in the second round, as I described above. Had he done so, this could have been a monster draft for the Pats. Solder and Dowling must develop into quality starters in order for this draft to be labeled as a success. Far more damage could have been done with picks #56 and 60. The addition of a deep threat like Torrey Smith, or a Deion Branch clone, like Randall Cobb, would have made a lot of sense. From the standpoint of value only, this draft appears to be somewhat of a disappointment. It will be interesting to see how players the Pats could have had, but passed on, such as Muhammad Wilkerson, Mark Ingram, Jabaal Sheard, Brooks Reed, Mikel Leshoure, Torrey Smith, and Randall Cobb, evolve.      That said, I loved the Ryan Mallett pick!! Mallett could be the heir apparent to Tom Brady...or could be traded at a later time for a high draft choice. The kid, under the tutorage of BB and Tom Brady, simply has too much talent to fail. As an added bonus, this pick could motivate Tom Brady to even greater heights...if that's possible!       BB also scored in round 5, landing RT/OG Marcus Cannon and Lee Smith. His selections late in round 6 and round 7 were gargantuan reaches.      Yes...the Pats did add the Saints' #1, and the Raiders' seconder rounder for 2012...which oif course adds value. But, the Pats should have gotten more mileage out of picks #56 and 60. Oh well...it is what it is!: GRADE: B-   
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Patriots going to teach Mallet how to "cheat" too?!?!?!?!?!
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    Actually a lot of those sacks vs the Jets this year were on Brady. Ie not throwing hot off an unblocked blitzer. (all 5 linemen had picked up a guy) or just held onto the ball too long.
    One was an interior linemen being beat, but a few of those were on Brady.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : RESPONSE: The Patriots are a perennial playoff team. Any draft pick who becomes a starter for them must be considered a success. Being a success is nice. But it don't win SBs. Being good does.
     
    RESPONSE: What??? Don't you have to be "good" to become a starter on a 14-2 team?

    RESPONSE: Cunningham a "miss"? He was a low second round draft choice, who ended up starting at year end...and showed signs of being an effective pass-rusher. Yet, after having such a rookie season, you advocate writing him off?       Brandon Spikes became a starting ILB. He has the physical attributes 3-4 teams look for in a inside LB. He's big, tough, and has a  mean streak. The only question about him is his off-field antics. But, for a low second round pick...you want to write him off, too?       No one has been more critical of Patrick Chung than I. But, there's no denying that the guy made huge strides last season. He was the Patriots' answer to Troy Polamalu, until leg injuries hampered his effectiveness. over the second half of the season.       Not ready to write off Brace yet. But, he needs to step this year. Darius Butler., Terrence Wheatley, McKenzie and the forgettable Shawn Crable were busts.    I didn't say I was writing anybody off. I'm saying they have not proven to be worth their high draft choice to this point (which is all we have to go by, right?).
     
    RESPONSE: Please state who you would rather have seen the Pats draft with those late second rounders, than Spikes and Cunningham? What NFL rookies drafted after them performed better?  

    RESPONSE: Goes without saying. But, remember, McCourty was a very unpopular pick...much as Logan Mankins was in 2005: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/mccourty-remembers-not-being-a-popular-patriots-pick/ What does it matter if they were popular or not? We are talking about results here, not about if fans liked the picks.
     
    RESPONSE: Yes we are talking about results. Which team had better results from their 2010 draft class than the Patriots?

    RESPONSE: As I indicated above, I challenge these stats. I don't consider Cunningham, Spikes, and Chung as "busts", or "failures". I said he missed on the picks considering how high they were. I didn't say anybody was a bust.
     
    RESPONSE: Again...who did you want the Pats select in the past drafts, in which Chung, Spikes and Cunningham were selected? What better prospects were selected after them? 

    RESPONSE: But isn't this what you were calling for this year...for the Pats to throw their immense draft resources at their problems on defense? Isn't their failure to do that your main criticism of their 2011 draft? I have been calling for him to fix the D for years. FIX IT. Not draft warm bodies that put on the uniform.
     
    RESPONSE: You can't "fix" the defense by merely wishing it to be fixed. It's hard to add stud players when, every year, your selecting at the bottom of every round? Again, the cornerstones of the Pats' formerly great defense, Richard Seymour and Willie McGinest, were top 10 picks. Ty Law was a #1 pick. Mike Vrabel and Rodney Harrison were brilliant free agent acquisitions. BB is building his current "D" around top 10 pick Jarod Mayo, and former #1 picks, Vince Wilfolk, and Devin McCourty. You keep whining about who the Pats should have gotten. Other than the Clay Matthews whine, who could BB have gotten to significantly improve his "D"...and at what cost?   

    RESPONSE: Your view of the attempts by the Pats to rebuild their "D" is warped. There are three ways to strengthen a team...through the draft, through free agency, or through trade. The Pats' "D" in the decade from 2001-2011 was built around former #1 pick Ty Law, and former top 10 overall, #1 picks, Richard Seymour and Willie McGinest. The rest of the "big contributors" came from various sources: #1 picks Wilfolk and Ty Warren, draft picks Lawyer Milloy, TeBucky Jones, Asante Samuel, Jarod Mayo, Brandon Meriweather, James anders, Patrick Chung, Ellis Hobbs, free agent signees Mike Vrabel, Rosevelt Colvin, Rodney Harrison, Ted Washington, Keith Traylor, Leigh Bodden, Rob Ninkovich, Adalius Thomas, Gerrard Warren, and Roman Pfieffer. You will note that the keystones of the Pats' "D" were former top 10 picks Seymour and McGinest, and #1 pick Ty Law. Aside from Mayo in 2008, the Pats haven't had a top 10 pick in a decade.       It is your view that is warped. It is you that make the excuses for BB not acquiring optimun players. He is the one that keeps trsding down his picks to stockpile 2nd rounders that he will use to draft warm bodies or busts.
     
    RESPONSE: Again...please specifically describe how BB has missed the boat? What "great" players could he have drafted, other those that he did, to improve the defense?

    RESPONSE: Sorry...but you're not making sense. Job one on this team is to protect Tom Brady. The Pats badly needed a LT, with Matt Light an UFA, and 33 years old. At pick #17, who would have been a better selection than Nate Solder?       The trade of the 28th pick for the 56th overall pick and the Saints' #1 in 2012 represented good value. Apparently, the Pats felt better about making this deal, than in taking DE Muhammad Wilkerson, from Temple.        Taking CB Ras-I Dowling at #33 addressed the defense, though not the pass-rushing problem. Obviously, BB thought that Dowling was a better prospect than either Brooks Reed, or Jabaal Sheard. From that point on, outside of the off-field challenged Justin Houston, there were no other top pass-rush prospects available.        What it all comes down to is this: do you advocate that the Pats draft an OLB because they need one, and pass on a higher rated player on their board, in so doing? The Pats have been a "take the best player available" type team, rather than a team that drafts solely for need. This to me seems to be the best way to approach a draft. The alleged "experts who gave the Pats high draft grades seemed to judge the Pats'  draft on the players they selected, without regard to need...while the Mel Kipers of the world view the draft primarily as a vehicle to fill needs. You are not giving enough importance to the Brady factor. That factor makes drafting for value somewhat less viable at present. Because the last half decade, when drafting for value was more viable has been squandered on too many blah high draft picks, the window for BB screwing around has closed.

    RESPONSE: Please cut the generalities, and tell us specifically how the Pats screwed up? Who, other than Clay Matthews, did they miss out on by trading down? As a result of the Matthews deal, the Pats ended up with TE Rob Gronkowski, CB Darius Butler, and WR Brandon Tate. Gronk looks like a budding pro-bowler. Tate needs to step up. Butler has terribly disappointed, and looks to be a bust.   
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]


    Agree with everything you said Tex. And I would say that it appears (and appearance is about as much as we can say till the players prove their worth one way or the other) that this draft was a very strong one. Yes it is likely that they missed on a really good player that would help fill the pass rushing needs but they must have thought the players they chose or the picks they traded for were either just better value or more reliable value - which when you are dealing with probabilities ends up being about the same thing.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    One opinion not shared Tex: and thast is about Butler. He had a good rookie year - not great but good. He had a poor second year till the last third of the season or so. At that point he started to work his way back onto the field. That means he was beginning to "get it" and BB was giving him some playing time.

    I am not saying he is a solid player. I am saying to write him off as a bust he premature. He could take the next step this year. He could just be decent. He could be a bust. If he is decent then there has been improvement but still unsure as to whether he should remain on the team. This is a big year for him. Especially considering the added competition from the rookie.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : One opinion not shared Tex: and thast is about Butler. He had a good rookie year - not great but good. He had a poor second year till the last third of the season or so. At that point he started to work his way back onto the field. That means he was beginning to "get it" and BB was giving him some playing time. I am not saying he is a solid player. I am saying to write him off as a bust he premature. He could take the next step this year. He could just be decent. He could be a bust. If he is decent then there has been improvement but still unsure as to whether he should remain on the team. This is a big year for him. Especially considering the added competition from the rookie.
    Posted by portfolio1[/QUOTE]

         Hope you're right, Port. But based on what I've seen and heard...the guy is a bust. He is the reason why BB felt compelled to select CB Ras-I Dowling with the 33rd overall pick last April. 

         The selection of Butler with the 41st overall pick in 2009 draft will challenge the Chad Jackson selection in 2006 as the worst draft selection of the BB era. It really hurts when a team blows a first round, or high second round pick.

         Here are some articles on Butler's many shortcomings: http://www.patspulpit.com/2010/10/30/1781788/indefense-of-darius-butler; and http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/End-of-Season-Patriots-Report-Card-28642938 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

     
    RESPONSE: What??? Don't you have to be "good" to become a starter on a 14-2 team?

    As you are well aware, the Pat's O was perhaps the best in the league featuring the first ever unanimous MVP as well. So claiming that a highly drafted player who  can make the starting lineup over the likes of a scrub such as Guyton on a defense much inferior to the "14-2" team's offense as being "good" is classic spin, and classic Pat's fan "excuses for Hoodie".


    RESPONSE: Please state who you would rather have seen the Pats draft with those late second rounders, than Spikes and Cunningham? What NFL rookies drafted after them performed better? 

    Laurinaitis, Cox, Barwin, Byrd and Smith have all performed better than the 3 guys we took in the second for 2009. Dunlap, Angerer, Spivey, Verner and P Cox have done more than either of them for 2010.


    RESPONSE: Yes we are talking about results. Which team had better results from their 2010 draft class than the Patriots?

    Not sure why you are harping on 2010 as that is clearly one of his best drafts. But I have already addressed the lack of impact the 2nd round LBs have had,
     
    RESPONSE: Again...who did you want the Pats select in the past drafts, in which Chung, Spikes and Cunningham were selected? What better prospects were selected after them? 

    see above


    RESPONSE: You can't "fix" the defense by merely wishing it to be fixed. It's hard to add stud players when, every year, your selecting at the bottom of every round? Again, the cornerstones of the Pats' formerly great defense, Richard Seymour and Willie McGinest, were top 10 picks. Ty Law was a #1 pick. Mike Vrabel and Rodney Harrison were brilliant free agent acquisitions. BB is building his current "D" around top 10 pick Jarod Mayo, and former #1 picks, Vince Wilfolk, and Devin McCourty. You keep whining about who the Pats should have gotten. Other than the Clay Matthews whine, who could BB have gotten to significantly improve his "D"...and at what cost?   

    If you leep trading down you are correct - it's hard to add stud players.
     
    RESPONSE: Again...please specifically describe how BB has missed the boat? What "great" players could he have drafted, other those that he did, to improve the defense?


    see above and note the constant trading down mentioned.

    RESPONSE: Please cut the generalities, and tell us specifically how the Pats screwed up? Who, other than Clay Matthews, did they miss out on by trading down? As a result of the Matthews deal, the Pats ended up with TE Rob Gronkowski, CB Darius Butler, and WR Brandon Tate. Gronk looks like a budding pro-bowler. Tate needs to step up. Butler has terribly disappointed, and looks to be a bust.


    Would you trade those 3 for Matthews? I would. But I doubt GB would make the trade.

    The problem has been too much trading down and not selecting the best players with the picks we did have. see above
     
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]Babe, I believe you are overstating the problems on defense. It is extremely hard to get to the Super Bowl let alone win the darn thing. Even with the number one ranked defense in 2003 they allowed 29 points to Delhomme and the Panthers. They were fortunate to win those trophys even when they had a dominant D. They won because they were a great team not because they had a great D. They won because players like Vinatieri, Branch, Brady, Rodney and Willie made plays when they needed to be made. To get back to the Super Bowl and win it they'll need players to step it up when it matters most. In the last two playoff games they have been prone to making too many mistakes. And that includes Brady. He's not the reason for the playoff losses, there plenty of blame to go around, but he needs to play better as does the rest of the team, offense, defense and special teams alike.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    It is difficult. Having a HOF QB is half the battle though. The D that was manned by several clutch players not of BB origin made the difference in winning big games and not.
     

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