Patriots' Recent "Success" Due To Weak Division?

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    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    anonymis....  accept the fact the Pats ARE THAT GOOD and they are the cause for a bad division, not that a bad division is the cause of a VERY GOOD Pats team.  Patsbandwagon stats prove that out.

    Where did I say that the Patriots weren't good?

     



    anonymis..  you may not have come right out and said the Pats "weren't good" but, the nature of your post calls into question just how good the Pats are given the division they are in.  You are trying to rationalize the success of the Pats in these last 10 - 12 years as possibly being the end result of being in a "weak" division.  You are trying to rationalize their success or give a plausible reason for it other than they are simply a VERY GOOD TEAM.  You've succeeded in gaining attention. 

     




    actually, it's how a reader reads between the lines.  As stated elsewhere, I'm actually very excited about this years team.  And, you're right - it is slow since there is no football being played right now.

    And again, I'm not trying to diminish what the Patriots have done - as they still have to play and win games. However, that being said - I think there are benefits that the Patriots are reaping from playing 6 games in a weak division. There's nothing wrong with admitting that. If it means fewer playoff games to play and increasing the chances of making it to the SB - I'll take it.

     
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    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    If anything this team is underrated by many of it's fans. To expect the dominance we had a decade ago is silly. Those teams won 10 straight playoff games. That comes once in a lifetime if you're lucky.

    Even so, this team came so close in 2007 and 2011 and were among the best again last year. Injuries have also plagued us in recent years.



    agreed.  Injuries to key players during playoff games certainly didn't help the outcome of recent SB appearances.

     
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    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to AZPAT's comment:

    In response to anonymis's comment:

     

    Everyone knows that making it to the Superbowl is pretty tough as it is.  BB obviously has to put a new team together every year.  Part of the equation to making it deep into the playoffs (SB) is the regular season record. The AFC East is not really a powerhouse - some might say its actually a weak division. 

    Which leads to the question - how much of the regular season success is due to playing in a weak division? And, how does that affect the Patriots' playoff success? 

    Are the Patriots an over-rated team?

     



    DUH!

     

    They have a slam dunk/9-10 automatic wins (between their 6 division, and two other division's 3rd and 4th place teams) per season, and go flat as Kansas in the playoffs agains REAL contending teams. Overrated? Well, when the much bally-hooed Brady led offense goes 0-2nd half or 0-4th quarter, yeah.  There is no longer an "Us againt the world", fire in their belly attitude.

    Complacency does that to you. This bunch have become my "new" Red Sox of old..... I wait till the 4th qtr to see how badly they scru things up. They are not disappointing me on this, in recent playoff opportunities. Love all those e'come from in front wins" last season, including the AFCCC when they mailed it in right before halftime.

    Will I watch 'em? Oh, yes. Still entertaining. Do I hope they win? Yeah, but they have a long way to go to recapture that early 2000's emotion. But, come playoff time, it's not a matter of "if", but "when" they will play horribly.



    I've always thought that winning a SB means going into the playoffs with 1) momentum, 2) good game plan 3) excecution/timely playmaking 4) luck

    Yes, the Patriots have always been entertaining - even when they didn't have a decent record.  I'm definitely enjoying the ride while it lasts - once Brady is gone, I suspect the Patriots will become just another average team until another franchise QB comes along the way.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

    Everyone knows that making it to the Superbowl is pretty tough as it is.  BB obviously has to put a new team together every year.  Part of the equation to making it deep into the playoffs (SB) is the regular season record. The AFC East is not really a powerhouse - some might say its actually a weak division.

    RESPONSE: So what? The Yankees have won pennant after pennant by playing .500 ball against the good teams, and dominating the bad teams. To win a championship, a team has to be both good, and lucky. Since 2006, the Pats have been good...but very unlucky. Half their defense seemingly missed the AFC title game in Indy with injuries...with Rodney Harrison going down in the 2006 season finale. There was that blasted helmut catch by David Tyree in 2007, the Brady injury in 2008, the Welker injury in the season finale in 2009, the Gronk injury in 2011, and, again, in 2012...along with losing Aqib Talib in the second half of the loss to the Ravens. The 2010 team, playing poorly and losing to the Jets at home, was the exception. That was a loss due solely to poor play.    

    Which leads to the question - how much of the regular season success is due to playing in a weak division? And, how does that affect the Patriots' playoff success?

    RESPONSE: It matters little. A team that has the perfect storm of being healthy, and playing their best ball at playoff time, usually wins the championship.   

    Are the Patriots an over-rated team?

    RESPONSE: No. Quite the contrary. With the exception of the 2010 seaon, some bad luck and untimely injuries to key players have really taken their toll in the play-offs. Had the Pats won one or both of those SBs in 2007 and 2011, would we even be having this conversation?


     

     



    Tex,

     

    Love ya, man, but ya gotta stop with the excuses. There is NO excuse for the alleged "Iron" of ther team, Brady & Co, doing absolutely nothing in the post season when it REALLY matters. Miraculous catches by opposing WR's and Gronk's injury are excuses. They played well and won when Gronk was out, so we can't blame/excuse a post season loss on "if he was healthy..." proposition. Missing Gronk didn't make the Pats for 0-2nd half vs the Ravens, especially with Welker and Lloyd still available. Luck? As my HS baseball coach once said, you make your own luck. If you wait for it, it'll never happen, and you'll be going home unhappy.  "Luck" has no uniform number, so it can't be blamed, good or bad.


    Another point is that the Yankess, for the most part, actually win when they get to the post season. When they don't, it's not because they blew away the AL with 110 wins and then died in the 2nd round, a la Pats. baseball is not a good comparrison, as the NFL plays 10% of a MLB regular season schedule. A four of 5 game losing streak in MLB isn't nearly disasterous as the same in the NFL. fact is, a GOOD team in the playoffs need not depend on luck (good or bad) to advance. The players make it happen, rather than "let" it happen. Leaving a WR uncovered when the entire world knows they're going to get the ball is totally unacceptable. Severely undertthrowing an injured/not 100% TE down the middle of the field is NOT a good play to be called. Not scoring a single blessed point in the 2nd half of the AFCCC with a much ballyhooed, All World offense is NOT a good thing. They didn't have the fire, they didn't seem to be ready, and they got beat.

    Watching teh Pats in teh post season is like watching the old Sox...... 7th inning, they have a lead, and the first two opposing batters get walks..... 8th inning, 2 outs, pitcher gives up a ground rule double on an 0-2 pitch.... 9th inning, up by a run, the opposition gets the bases loaded with 2 out and score 3 runs when the pitcher should have been pulled.  The Pats move well, and then end up punting the ball multiple times from inside the Ravens 40 yard line..... not good, taking potential points off the board.  Same/same....... 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to AZPAT's comment:

    Love ya, man, but ya gotta stop with the excuses. There is NO excuse for the alleged "Iron" of their team, Brady & Co, doing absolutely nothing in the post season when it REALLY matters. Miraculous catches by opposing WR's and Gronk's injury are excuses. They played well and won when Gronk was out, so we can't blame/excuse a post season loss on "if he was healthy..." proposition. Missing Gronk didn't make the Pats for 0-2nd half vs the Ravens, especially with Welker and Lloyd still available. Luck? As my HS baseball coach once said, you make your own luck. If you wait for it, it'll never happen, and you'll be going home unhappy.  "Luck" has no uniform number, so it can't be blamed, good or bad.


    Another point is that the Yankess, for the most part, actually win when they get to the post season. When they don't, it's not because they blew away the AL with 110 wins and then died in the 2nd round, a la Pats. baseball is not a good comparrison, as the NFL plays 10% of a MLB regular season schedule. A four of 5 game losing streak in MLB isn't nearly disasterous as the same in the NFL. fact is, a GOOD team in the playoffs need not depend on luck (good or bad) to advance. The players make it happen, rather than "let" it happen. Leaving a WR uncovered when the entire world knows they're going to get the ball is totally unacceptable. Severely undertthrowing an injured/not 100% TE down the middle of the field is NOT a good play to be called. Not scoring a single blessed point in the 2nd half of the AFCCC with a much ballyhooed, All World offense is NOT a good thing. They didn't have the fire, they didn't seem to be ready, and they got beat.

    Watching teh Pats in teh post season is like watching the old Sox...... 7th inning, they have a lead, and the first two opposing batters get walks..... 8th inning, 2 outs, pitcher gives up a ground rule double on an 0-2 pitch.... 9th inning, up by a run, the opposition gets the bases loaded with 2 out and score 3 runs when the pitcher should have been pulled.  The Pats move well, and then end up punting the ball multiple times from inside the Ravens 40 yard line..... not good, taking potential points off the board.  Same/same....... 



    Losing the two most recent SB appearances was about not executing 1-2 plays in all 3 phases of the game, a poor game plan, poor adjustments by coaching, injuries, and "bad luck" - even if it doesn't wear a number....lol.

    IMO, it's not just a single player or play that is a sole cause of the SB losses - rather a series of factors/elements/plays that do occur

     
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    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

    Everyone knows that making it to the Superbowl is pretty tough as it is.  BB obviously has to put a new team together every year.  Part of the equation to making it deep into the playoffs (SB) is the regular season record. The AFC East is not really a powerhouse - some might say its actually a weak division.

    RESPONSE: So what? The Yankees have won pennant after pennant by playing .500 ball against the good teams, and dominating the bad teams. To win a championship, a team has to be both good, and lucky. Since 2006, the Pats have been good...but very unlucky. Half their defense seemingly missed the AFC title game in Indy with injuries...with Rodney Harrison going down in the 2006 season finale. There was that blasted helmut catch by David Tyree in 2007, the Brady injury in 2008, the Welker injury in the season finale in 2009, the Gronk injury in 2011, and, again, in 2012...along with losing Aqib Talib in the second half of the loss to the Ravens. The 2010 team, playing poorly and losing to the Jets at home, was the exception. That was a loss due solely to poor play.    

    Which leads to the question - how much of the regular season success is due to playing in a weak division? And, how does that affect the Patriots' playoff success?

    RESPONSE: It matters little. A team that has the perfect storm of being healthy, and playing their best ball at playoff time, usually wins the championship.   

    Are the Patriots an over-rated team?

    RESPONSE: No. Quite the contrary. With the exception of the 2010 seaon, some bad luck and untimely injuries to key players have really taken their toll in the play-offs. Had the Pats won one or both of those SBs in 2007 and 2011, would we even be having this conversation?


     

     




    Spot on...

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

     


    Not that long ago?  Gronk was in huggies diapers the last time the Patriots were a "below average team."  

    Custom-made, hulk-like, extra large diapers, nonetheless.

     



    I guess it's a matter of perspective, how old one  is, and how long you've been following the Patriots for. To me, it wasn't that long ago....

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to AZPAT's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    RESPONSE: So what? The Yankees have won pennant after pennant by playing .500 ball against the good teams, and dominating the bad teams. To win a championship, a team has to be both good, and lucky.

    Another point is that the Yankess, for the most part, actually win when they get to the post season. When they don't, it's not because they blew away the AL with 110 wins and then died in the 2nd round, a la Pats.

     



    You two realize that the Yanks have only gone 7-8 in playoff series since 2001, with a grand total of ONE World Series win?  Or does "recent history" only count when you're bashing the Pats and doesn't apply to your faulty analogies of other "dominating" teams.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    In response to AZPAT's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    RESPONSE: So what? The Yankees have won pennant after pennant by playing .500 ball against the good teams, and dominating the bad teams. To win a championship, a team has to be both good, and lucky.

    Another point is that the Yankess, for the most part, actually win when they get to the post season. When they don't, it's not because they blew away the AL with 110 wins and then died in the 2nd round, a la Pats.

     



    You two realize that the Yanks have only gone 7-8 in playoff series since 2001, with a grand total of ONE World Series win?  Or does "recent history" only count when you're bashing the Pats and doesn't apply to your faulty analogies of other "dominating" teams.

     



    Well the Patriots had their dynasty.

    Do you consider the Patriots a "dominating" team since 2005 or just a merely good team like the early Manning-led Colts team?

     
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    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to anonymis' comment:

    Everyone knows that making it to the Superbowl is pretty tough as it is.  BB obviously has to put a new team together every year.  Part of the equation to making it deep into the playoffs (SB) is the regular season record. The AFC East is not really a powerhouse - some might say its actually a weak division. 

    Which leads to the question - how much of the regular season success is due to playing in a weak division? And, how does that affect the Patriots' playoff success? 

    Are the Patriots an over-rated team?




    Yes.  Laughing

     

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