Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wingman23. Show Wingman23's posts

    Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    I know Wilfork is a great player but he's not the playmaker that every great defense needs.  Look at all the top teams in the league.  The Vikings have a Jared Allen and Antoine Winfeild, Packers have Nick Collins and Charles Woodson(and rookie Clay Mathews) Cowboys have Ware, both CB's Newman and Jenkins, Spencer and their NT Jay Ratliff who actually can sack the QB.  

    I don't think the Pats can afford to spend all that money on the Nose Tackle position.  Especially a guy whos more of a 2 down player, and especially with all the other needs on this team.  What would you rather do?  Sign Wilfork to a huge deal and then have to gamble on finding a good pass rusher and cornerback in the draft and having to sign a middle of the pack WR.......or would you rather go out and use the Wilfork money on a big time free agent PLAY MAKING Game changer like a Peppers or Karlos Dansby, then fill Wilforks spot with maybe not a great NT, but a good one like Ryan Pickett or John Jolly, or someone else not nearly as expensive. 

    In my openion, in today's game Run stopping isn't as important anymore, and getting to the quarterback is more import.  Look at some of the top defenses like Dallas and Greenbay(i know they got smoked the other day but they were a top defense)  They all have really good blitzing linebackers and corners, and Dallas's NT is barely 300 lbs.   I'd rather the Pats best Defensive player be at the OLB position, Cornerback or Safety..... not Nose Tackle.  See what I'm saying??

    Would you rather have on the Patriots........

    DTWilfork, CB Leigh Bodden, OLB Antwan Barnes(backupfor ravens) and WR Josh Reed(3rd reciever for Bills)
    or
    OLB Karlos Dansby or Demeco Ryans, and someone like Safety Nick Collins or CB Antoin Winfield or Terrence Newman, and get a descent to good NT like Ryan Pickett from Greenbay(good year playing NT for first time in 3-4) and Trade a 3rd and a 5th round pick for Anquon Boldin.  (it was reported today Boldin could be had for a 3rd and a 5th this offseason)
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    The nose is not a "playmaker" position. His job is to stop the run and take up blockers which he does as well as or better that any other NT in the NFL.

    You're comparing him to DE and OLB types, whose job is getting to the QB. That's apples and oranges.

    We'd be crazy to let fork go.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from paparui. Show paparui's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    You don't let great Players leave for nothing. Run Defense is still important but our team just has terrible pass rushing DE's. Ty Warren is more of a DT that happens to play LDE on our team since we run 3-4 packages. If we don't resign Wilfork our Defense would fall apart with the current guys we have on our roster.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from paparui. Show paparui's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    Unclealfie pretty much explained why he's a impact player. Guys like Mayo wouldn't have won ROY honors last season if it wasn't for Wilfork. He just makes every guy's job easier on the front 7.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    I'm not a defensive expert but it seems that in order to have an effective 3-4 defense there needs to be 2 lineman who are worthy of drawing a double team.  Teams can take a 3 man rush by doubling Wilfork and having 3 guys left to block the other 2 lineman.  This effectively makes it impossible to get to the QB unless both OLB blitz, and then there is a hole in pass coverage.  When Seymour was in his prime he and Wilfork could both draw double teams and than a blitz by an OLB would force teams into mismatches. 

    I don't think it matters much if a team runs a 3-4 or 4-3 since both are being used effectively by teams right now.  The Pats simply don't have the guys they need to do either very well.  If anything I would think that since very few teams run a 3-4 there would be less competition for guys who work in that system making it easier to fill those positions with top level talent.

    So basically, I think because Wilfork still draws double teams they need him, but if they don't add somebody else it will be useless.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from k-maxx. Show k-maxx's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    Exactly when did the word Great become fashionable to insert in the same sentence along the name Wilfork?

    He is not great nor has he ever been great.  He benefited greatly by being on a line with Seymour.

    When all is said in done I will remember Vinny for 2 things, The Knee dive against the Bills QB and the Three Stooger eye poke against the Giants....just another dirty player from the U.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    It's probably going to cost the Pats 6-7 mil per year to resign Wilfork to a long term deal. If they franchise him the number is 6+ mil..That's not huge cash for what he can do. It makes little sense to let him go.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wingman23. Show Wingman23's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    you guys understand that there are other guys in the league that can play NT in a 3-4.  You don't need "the best" one to play the position, all these other teams that play the 3-4 now have guys not named Wilfork and all those other teams (Cowboys, Packers, Chargers, Cardinals) all have better defenses than the Pats.  Yes the Cardinals and Packers D's didnt look so good this past week but that was mostly due to lack of Corners(Al Harris was hurt for Greenback and Cromartie got hurt early in the game for Cardinals).  

    The Pats would be a better team if they used the Wilfork money to fill multiple holes in the team and sign another DT like Ryan Pickett, or John Jolly.  The team needs and outside LB and Inside LB, and number 1 CB (not Leigh Bodden) and they need a Number 2 Reciever for this season and one who could take over as the number 1 in 2011 when Moss leaves.  Oh and also have to resign Mankins, Gotskoski, Faulk, and Sign Brady to a big high priced extension which will be alot more than what he is making right now. 

    Personally i think the Pats D would be better if they signed Julius Peppers instead of Wilfork.  They could play more 4-3 and move Ty Warren inside. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from oggieman. Show oggieman's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    I agree let him go---to Miami.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from k-maxx. Show k-maxx's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    "Without that big guy the defense is going to struggle even more.  His "non-playmaking" allows other guys to run around and make plays when given the opportunity."

    Quick History Lesson:

    Nose Tackle 2001........I  don't Remember = Super Bowl
    Nose Tackle 2003........Ted Washington    = Super Bowl
    Nose Tackle 2004........Keith Traylor         = Super Bowl

    Nose tackle 2005-2009  Vince Wilfork       = Nothing

    He is not worth big money.  All's you need is a fat guy at nose and great LB's behind their fat @ss.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from oggieman. Show oggieman's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    In a  3-4 defense, the most important player BY FAR is the nose.  There are very few noses better than Woolfork. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    Wingman- There are other guys that play the nose but none, IMHO that do it as good as Vince.6 Million isn't a ton for a guy that is tops at his position. We need to keep what little quality we have left on this defense. If you're saying that you think Wilfork isn't that good then I humbly disagree and also, Peppers is going to cost in the Neighborhood of 9-10 mil per year if Carolina lets him go. If they bite the bullet and cut Thomas they are going to wipe a big chunk off the books right there. That's a loss that I can get behind.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wingman23. Show Wingman23's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    just look at 2 teams still in the Playoffs the Jets and Chargers.....they both lost their starting NT's very early in the season, and since then playing without them the Jets became the best defense in football, and the Chargers went on a 11 game winning streak both playing no name guys ant Nose Tackle.  As long as you have GAME Changing PLAY MAKERS around at other positions you can still be a good defense playing the 3-4 as both teams do.  So if the Pats take that money and go out and sign a couple of top free agents at the LB, CB and DE positions they can afford to have just an average NT.  You can't argue with that, you have to admit. 

    Both team's were thought to be toast when Kris Jenkins and Jamal Williams(who have been considered the 2 top NT's in football the last 5 or so years) both went down for the season.  Most experts and analysts thought just like you guys that those teams defenses couldn't survive without having a great NT anchoring the D Line.  They were all wrong, Jets D ended up being number 1 and the Chargers played very well without him down the stretch.   
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wingman23. Show Wingman23's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    Yes you said the chargers have better players in other positions than the pats thats how they got away with not having J Williams, and thats what im saying they need to let Wilfork go so they can go add some impact players at the OLB and corner spot!!!!!  If Wilfork is going to cost more than 6 mil. a year or want more than 10 mil guaranteed then let him go.  Ratliff from Cowbows whos going to 2nd pro bowl in as many years and made 1st team all pro signed a 5 year 20 mil contract and 8 million guaranteed.  The Pats offered Wilfork a contract similar already and he turned it down.  I heard he wants like 15 or more guaranteed. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    Wingman- We don't have the supporting talent on our defense right now that The Jets or the Chargers have. When Vince was hurt we had to scrap our whole scheme and go to that 5 linebacker set. 6 Million isn't breaking the bank.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wingman23. Show Wingman23's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    In my opinion Ryan Pickett from Green Bay would fill the spot just fine and im sure he would cost a lot less.  If they could get him for only 2 or 3 mil a year and only 5 mil guaranteed that would be atleast one more top free agent the Pats could go out and sign.  

    The patriots need to go get someone like Free Safety Nick Collins from Green Bay who the passed 2 years has been great at turning games around by picking off the QB and returing it for TD's.  Or Karlos Dansby to play OLB.  When he played there 2 years ago he was great.  This year he moved inside and hasnt been as good, still very good, but not as big of a play maker.  Kirk Morrison has been real god for the Raiders at MLB the last few seasons.  Demeco Ryans from Texans could play MLB for the Pats and then Mayo could move to oustide Linebacker where he also played in College.  I think he'd be good at it.  The Pats def. need to move up in the draft and take someone like LB McLain from Alabama or if possible up to 5 or 6th to get Eric Berry who's going to be a ball hawk at Safety.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    I understand your logic Wingman, but I just disagree.  Wilfork is one of the only guys on this defense that earned his check this year. Guaranteed cash doesn't matter if your planning on keeping the guy, which we would be. If Vince goes, I don't think we can replace him.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wingman23. Show Wingman23's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    EWhite i know thats why im saying they should use the Wilfork money to go out and sign a couple of impact players at other positions.  If they were to go out and sign a Peppers and and LB like Karlos Dansby or Kirk Morrison or Demeco Ryans and a top CB like Terrence Newman or Antoine Winfield or Safety like a Nick Collins, they would be a better team then if they just sign Wilfork and then resign Leigh Bodden and go get someone like Antwan Barnes a backup from Ravens and hope he turns into a sack master. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    Well, whatever the problem, when he was ok we still did ok, we switched defensive fronts and alignments, and whatever it was, i liked the results ok.  Maybe its time to get some big hosses up front and switch to the 4-3,  Bill B himself alluded to the fact that it's now hard to find the kind of players he needs.  
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    You'll never convince people on this board that we don't need Wilfork.  They are all in love with him.  Even though he is a 2 down player and our biggest weakness is stopping the pass on 3rd down.  Even though our D was just fine when he was out this year and 2006.  Even though our run D s*cked when he came back against the Ravens.  Even though opponents still convert 3rd and short when they run right at him.  Even though he gets tossed around like a rag doll when teams do double team him (and often single handedly by any decent center).  Even though he is now full of wear and tear.  Even though he's actually pretty small for a nose tackle.  Even though the Pats have never over paid for someone who was "vital" to the team (Milloy, Law, McGinest, Branch, Samuel, etc).

    But don't worry.  Next year when our D is still dominant people will be clamoring to keep Bodden or TBC or whoever it is.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    He isn't worth the kind of money that Haynesworth wanted. At market price, around seven million per, that would be ok. But no, he isn't a playmaker, and anyone who says NTs aren't playmakers need to watch the two or three elite nose tackles like Jenkins, who DO collapse the pocket.

    Not to bag on an excellent player, but he is not the best, and should not be paid more than any other NT out there.

    Still, Brace's slow start has to have the Pats a bit handcuffed right now- as no one else on the roster can fill that spot, and good NTs are very hard to get. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlemaslow. Show seattlemaslow's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    Look at Ratliff on Dallas. He's a play-making NT who stays on the field for all three downs. I love Vince but no player is irreplaceable.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    Wingman, If they can get Peppers and Dansby signed up for 6-7 mil a year for both I'm all for it.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat. Show seattlepat's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    Z, I think you hit on something there. VW does not push to pocket back. The NT doe snot need to score sacks, but his role does not stop at drawing double teams. The best ones are able to disrupt the QB, by collapsing the pocket.

    Having a NT that simply clogged the middle worked in 2005, but I doubt it will ever be enough anymore with the way opposing offenses are now built, how much smarter the opposing QBs are now. I believe the opposing teams already know that VW will not push his OL back to the QB, so they can anticipate that the rush will come from OLBs, which are much easier to see and address when there's nothing in front that you have to worry about.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: Patriots should not spend big bucks on signing Wilfork

    he's Vince Wilfork, not In-Vinceable Wilfork, sign him for what's worth and no more. have the vision to see if he's gonnna roll over in a couple years ala Seymour. there are a ton of guys comimg out of college that can step up and replace him in a couple years, we need an every down beast on the d-line
     

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