Pats biggest problems

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from murghkhor. Show murghkhor's posts

    Pats biggest problems


    1. 3rd receiver. 

    Blunder to let Gaffney go. Which follows a year after we let Stallworth go. Our 2007 team flourished also because of the teams inability to cover our 3rd/4th awesome receivers of Stallworth/Gaffney if they doubled Moss/Welker. Our replacements for these were Galloway and Lewis, both of which turned out to be disasters and cut. Hope was put on Tate who is now on IR. Now our 3rd/4th receivers are Aiken (a special teamer who doesn't run precise routes and can only get open when defence screws up aka not a WR) and Stanback (a QB who doesn't run precise routes and can only get open when defence screws up aka not a WR). Edelman is a slot receiver and it's rare enough for him to see the field with Welker there. And it's impossible to see him run deep routes and out-jump anyone. 

    This last week NO double-teamed BOTH Moss and Welker the whole game with impunity. They dared Brady to either run or throw to Aiken/Stanback to win. Brady managed to do neither. Aiken still caught team high in catches/yards but that isn't saying much. Just like picking up Stallworth and Gaffney in FA was a huge boon for us, Galloway/Lewis turned out to be disasters. Seems we just got lucky more than anything else. Pats have a history of blowing WR draft picks and I shudder to think what Draft/FA brings next year. 

    2. Pass Rush

    Noone remembers Vrabel's 11 sack 2007 season or the consistent pressure he provided all year even when not sacking from the edge. Let alone the dominating teams from earlier in the decade. Our inability to pressure the QB even when blitzing is shameful. On the 75 yd run for TD in the Saints game, Butler rushed the QB from the edge and he was picked up. We sent 6 or 7 on that play. Yeah the safety blew the coverage from the Brees pump fake but equally pathetic is that noone got to even pressure Brees. Forget sacks, we don't even make them move around in the pocket. Burgess is quickly turning out to be a woeful waste of 3rd and 5th round draft picks. Thomas is turning out to be dead weight worth almost $10m in cap space who is preventing us from signing others we need. Another critical need.

    What really bugs me is that when last season ended if you had drawn up our biggest requirements the list would have been the same. Even if Fred Taylor hadn't come and we had resigned LaMont Jordan I think we would have done fine. Jordan ran hard and decent. Our two biggest needs were still 3rd Receiver and Pass Rush and after the year will end those needs remain. Some can argue cornerback and I agree to an extent. And we did strike gold with Bodden. That just shows that the front office started believing in its own hype of finding diamonds in the rough a bit too much. Gaffney could have been a cheap re-signing. Is Burgess really better than Vrabel (for 2 draft picks on top?). Too many obvious blunders because they were looking for another steal. It seems in looking for a steal all the time they are missing the obvious deals. 

    Now as we approach the offseason the most obvious re-signing looming is Bodden. This reminds me of the Gaffney deal. Some mid/late 20s guy, who was talented but his career was floundering, came to the Pats on a 1 yr deal to resuscitate his career before heading to some other team for the payout. I am frankly getting sick of this. Getting 1 good year only from every player is not turning out to be a steal since we seem to miss as often as we hit and it keeps the roster constantly churning at a much higher rate than other teams, which makes it harder for newer players to adjust and which also means we always seem to have gaping holes and requirements everywhere.

    In some ways I guess I am questioning the whole philosophy of the front office of short signing, and turning away star players for the cheap steals. Lots of other teams manage to lock in star players for the long term better than we do and they are all contending. Steelers, Colts, etc. 

    I think it's time the front office showed it's maturity pay Bodden the 5/6 mil per year he wants and lock him in. I am tired of hearing how we gave up anotehr 5th, 6th or etc round pick for some washed up CB hoping he will do good here next year and only to be disappointed. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Pats biggest problems

    Definitely agree about Gaffney.  As far as Vrabel goes, I think there is a "Paul Harvey Rest of the Story" behind that.  I just refuse to believe he was traded because of his cap hit.  Did Pioli pull a fast one on BB knowing the Pats had to trade Cassell?  Sure, we heard MacD wanted him in Denver, but maybe the pats were anxious to close the first deal?  Who knows.  I just think there is more to the story.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Pats biggest problems

    Only thing wrong with the Patriots is a Pass rush. The Patriots like big phyisical WRs playing out left because they can block on the screen pass. The reason why the Patriots' offense came to a hault against the Saints was because the Saints rushed 3 against the Pats 5, sometimes 6 linemen, OL and they tossed the Patriots OL all over the place. When you can put pressure on a QB with a 3 man rush and drop 8 into coverage only good things can come from it.

    On Vrabel, get over that. Vrabel was, and still is old. He had a career year in 2007, what happened in 08? 4 sacks. What's happening this year? 1 sack. I can't deny that we need a pass rush, but Vrabel isn't the answer. Burgess isn't the answer either, Thomas is. I think Mike Riess said it best in his article from a couple of weeks ago, "After Thomas sacked Brees on Monday, he was taken off the field and replaced by Burgess" Even though no one applied any pressure on Brees that play he still rushed the ball and wound up with an incomplete pass because he was afraid of getting hit again. I've said it before, Adalius Thomas is the best pass-rusher on the roster. Why we don't send him on every play is unbeknownst to me, but if we are going to see a pass-rush from the Pats, it's going to come from him.

    Also, I can't see Belichick drafting a CB next year if he is able to keep Bodden. Butler is a better corner than advertised. He will take over as the right CB next year, till then, I expect to see Shawn Springs playing the right for the remainder of the year.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Pats biggest problems

    have to agree on the receiver's. Problem goes even back to Branch. I remember him and brady talking about changing up routes just with looks that they both understood. Can't buy that

    Vrabel and the sack count in 07 was WAY due to teams throwing to catch up. Notice how the rush on Brady speeded up after we stop running and went strickly throw. What I can't seem to get is. Why do our edge rushers aways run the arch? Never a overload inside rush. No loops/No stunts/No show drop then come back into the rush. I understand about controlling the pocket,But NEVER. I don't get it. As for Thomas  I think they should be lining him up at all the LB'er spot's. Let the QB figure out if he'll rush or drop after he finds him.

    It was Wilhite on the slot blitz. I hope this kid get's it together. He's a lower round long shot. You have to root for a kid like this.
    As for long shot's be it pick's or FA's. You have to take some and you can't cut everyone without giving them training and time.

    It's just hard as fans to be into December and still trying to figure out if this team can take that next step.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBcheats. Show BBcheats's posts

    Re: Pats biggest problems

    They need new cameras...Hi def...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Pats biggest problems

    The problem is the pats only have 4.4mil in cap space left this year.  So if you do a rough estimate of what you suggest here is what you get in a salary cap hit.

    Don't sign
    Player                               Salary

    Fred Taylor                         2.3
    Burgess                              2.0
    Aiken                                 1.1
    Stanback                            .3

    5.7 + 4.4 = 10.1 mil in cap space left

    Add or keep:
    Seymour                        6.8 mil
    Vrabel                           4.2mil
    unsure about Gaffney but he made about .8 last year
    unsure about Jordan but he made about .8 last year
    Bodden 2.2, to sign at @5mil per year 2.8 difference

    15.4 mil pricetag, 5.3 over the cap limit.
    So a lot decisions would have to be made on cutting players, and they wouldn't be able to work on contracts like Wilfork's.

    Because they drafted Vollmer they could cut Light and his 4.2mil salary next year and have a significant savings because Vollmer makes about .3mil.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from oggieman. Show oggieman's posts

    Re: Pats biggest problems

    wow..amazing...patriot fans complaining about their 3rd receiver.  I wish I had your problem.   
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Pats biggest problems

    How about the Offensive Coordinator? As much as I'm growing to dislike Josh lately he was much better at calling the Offense. They've become so predictable the defenses are getting the jump and forcing our play.
    1st-deep route incomplete
    2nd-hand off to Maroney with 8 up front for 2-3
    3rd-try to force one into Moss or Welker as the D rushes 3

    I'm not saying this happens every time but tell me you're not sick of seeing it.

    Bring back Charlie


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Pats biggest problems

    In Response to Re: Pats biggest problems:
    [QUOTE]  I've said it before, Adalius Thomas is the best pass-rusher on the roster. Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

    AT reminds me of seymour. He may well be the best pass rusher we have but he rarely performs. Like seymour, he only gives his best when he feels like it and the few occasions are becoming more and more rare. Nevermind taking plays off, he takes entire seasons off. I believe he's just a rich man who's gotten fat and lazy.

    If he's already received all his guaranteed money, I wouldn't be at all suprised to see him cut after the season. His cap number is $9.5 next year and $10.5 the year after which is flat out crazy money considering how little he contributes (3 sacks this year through 10 games). He plays like JAG, one who can be replaced at a fraction of the salary and cap he's currently taking up.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from IndianaPatsFan. Show IndianaPatsFan's posts

    Re: Pats biggest problems

    In Response to Pats biggest problems:
    [QUOTE]1. 3rd receiver.  Blunder to let Gaffney go. Which follows a year after we let Stallworth go. Our 2007 team flourished also because of the teams inability to cover our 3rd/4th awesome receivers of Stallworth/Gaffney if they doubled Moss/Welker. Our replacements for these were Galloway and Lewis, both of which turned out to be disasters and cut. Hope was put on Tate who is now on IR. Now our 3rd/4th receivers are Aiken (a special teamer who doesn't run precise routes and can only get open when defence screws up aka not a WR) and Stanback (a QB who doesn't run precise routes and can only get open when defence screws up aka not a WR). Edelman is a slot receiver and it's rare enough for him to see the field with Welker there. And it's impossible to see him run deep routes and out-jump anyone.  This last week NO double-teamed BOTH Moss and Welker the whole game with impunity. They dared Brady to either run or throw to Aiken/Stanback to win. Brady managed to do neither. Aiken still caught team high in catches/yards but that isn't saying much. Just like picking up Stallworth and Gaffney in FA was a huge boon for us, Galloway/Lewis turned out to be disasters. Seems we just got lucky more than anything else. Pats have a history of blowing WR draft picks and I shudder to think what Draft/FA brings next year.  2. Pass Rush Noone remembers Vrabel's 11 sack 2007 season or the consistent pressure he provided all year even when not sacking from the edge. Let alone the dominating teams from earlier in the decade. Our inability to pressure the QB even when blitzing is shameful. On the 75 yd run for TD in the Saints game, Butler rushed the QB from the edge and he was picked up. We sent 6 or 7 on that play. Yeah the safety blew the coverage from the Brees pump fake but equally pathetic is that noone got to even pressure Brees. Forget sacks, we don't even make them move around in the pocket. Burgess is quickly turning out to be a woeful waste of 3rd and 5th round draft picks. Thomas is turning out to be dead weight worth almost $10m in cap space who is preventing us from signing others we need. Another critical need. What really bugs me is that when last season ended if you had drawn up our biggest requirements the list would have been the same. Even if Fred Taylor hadn't come and we had resigned LaMont Jordan I think we would have done fine. Jordan ran hard and decent. Our two biggest needs were still 3rd Receiver and Pass Rush and after the year will end those needs remain. Some can argue cornerback and I agree to an extent. And we did strike gold with Bodden. That just shows that the front office started believing in its own hype of finding diamonds in the rough a bit too much. Gaffney could have been a cheap re-signing. Is Burgess really better than Vrabel (for 2 draft picks on top?). Too many obvious blunders because they were looking for another steal. It seems in looking for a steal all the time they are missing the obvious deals.  Now as we approach the offseason the most obvious re-signing looming is Bodden. This reminds me of the Gaffney deal. Some mid/late 20s guy, who was talented but his career was floundering, came to the Pats on a 1 yr deal to resuscitate his career before heading to some other team for the payout. I am frankly getting sick of this. Getting 1 good year only from every player is not turning out to be a steal since we seem to miss as often as we hit and it keeps the roster constantly churning at a much higher rate than other teams, which makes it harder for newer players to adjust and which also means we always seem to have gaping holes and requirements everywhere. In some ways I guess I am questioning the whole philosophy of the front office of short signing, and turning away star players for the cheap steals. Lots of other teams manage to lock in star players for the long term better than we do and they are all contending. Steelers, Colts, etc.  I think it's time the front office showed it's maturity pay Bodden the 5/6 mil per year he wants and lock him in. I am tired of hearing how we gave up anotehr 5th, 6th or etc round pick for some washed up CB hoping he will do good here next year and only to be disappointed. 
    Posted by murghkhor[/QUOTE]

    The problem with all your points is that you are using hind sight- something no NFL team has the luxury of using.

    You say that we have a problem at third receiver, but the Patriots DID address this by bringing in Galloway and Lewis. You say that we need a better pass rush, but the Patriots addressed this by bringing in Burgess.

    Yes, I know that these players have not worked out the way we wanted them to. But, on paper, the way they played in the past pointed to all of them being solid contributors to the team.

    Also, you seem to completely ignore that NFL teams have to operate under a salary cap. The Patriots can't pay everybody that they may want to. We'd all like to have Seymour and Samuel back, but it is unrealistic to expect any NFL team to stack their roster with perennial pro bowlers.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeffab. Show jeffab's posts

    Re: Pats biggest problems

    Couldn't agree more - those shortcomings were glaringly obvious in the Saints game.  I do think it's time the Pats take the plunge in the early rounds and go after a quick offfensive player....true there aren't many Harvins, Maclins, and DeSean Jacksons out there, but trying to find a player like that would certainly help.  The offensive play calling has been predictable as well....I'm not sure brining back older defensive players like Seymour is an answer, but I certainly agree that some of these guys need to be held onto.  If you're contsantly rebuilding and retooling for the future, you never finish getting rebuilt.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeffab. Show jeffab's posts

    Re: Pats biggest problems

    .....and oggieman is right, if that's all we have to worry about, it's really not so bad!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Pats biggest problems

    In Response to Re: Pats biggest problems:
    [QUOTE].....and oggieman is right, if that's all we have to worry about, it's really not so bad!
    Posted by jeffab[/QUOTE]

    I disagree, we do need to worry about this if we plan on getting deep into the playoffs. If all you care about is one and out I'd agree. We also have to worry about the rush and play calling. Oggie doesn't see this as a problem because his team has so many more to deal with but we don't. We take care of these and maybe, just maybe we can run with those two teams on the other side. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBcheats. Show BBcheats's posts

    Re: Pats biggest problems

    In Response to Re: Pats biggest problems:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pats biggest problems : I disagree, we do need to worry about this if we plan on getting deep into the playoffs. If all you care about is one and out I'd agree. We also have to worry about the rush and play calling. Oggie doesn't see this as a problem because his team has so many more to deal with but we don't. We take care of these and maybe, just maybe we can run with those two teams on the other side. 
    Posted by Sam-Adams[/QUOTE]

    No Chance.
     

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