Pats DrOY

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Pats DrOY

    Did you see where CPrice of EEI gives the mid point DROY for the Pats to Ryan, edging out Buchanon and then Jones? 

    I have a feeling Ryan is going to make BB comfortable not going too high $$$ for Talib

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    I think it's got to be DMC.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrtm70. Show mrtm70's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think it's got to be DMC.

    [/QUOTE]

    Defensive ROOKIE of The Year <Roll eyes>  ... but yes, DMC is playing great.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHAMPSXLVIII. Show CHAMPSXLVIII's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    I think Logan Ryan will overtake jones down the stretch. He is playing more than earlier in the season and he seems to make big plays every game

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    In response to mrtm70's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think it's got to be DMC.

    [/QUOTE]

    Defensive ROOKIE of The Year <Roll eyes>  ... but yes, DMC is playing great.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ha, I was thinking MVP for some reason.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    No one is exactly running away with it at this point. Imo here's how I would rank them:

    1# Ryan, has come in and has made some big impact plays. He's still making rook mistakes but compared to all the other rooks he's made the least. He's also taking the starting job from Arrington on the outside. Now that isn't saying a ton considering how bad Arrington has been yet again on the outside but him earning a position instead of given to him because of lack of players or injury does deserve credit.

    #2 Dobson, you look at Dobson and he has flash some brilliance and he continues to improve but he's had his share of facepalm moments. However, you can't overlook the fact that for a while there was no one else and Dobson has come up with some good catches down the strentch.

    #3 Jones, you have someone like Jones who has 5 sacks but he's very weak against the run and frankly since 60% of his pressures result in sacks that means he's not getting effective pressure on QB's for a majority of the time he's on the field. Really he has the most miss leading stats of any rook this year and only a fool would hang his hat on this arguement on 5 sacks. Of course it's still an impressive feat and considering the other rooks does put hm into top 3 conversation.

    #4 Jamie Collins, though not really interacting on the D his contribution to the ST plays gives him the 4th spot in my mind. Clearly of the other rooks he's given more just through STs than the others have given on normal downs.

    #5 Buchanan, Buchanan had 1 great game with 2 sacks but really hasn't shown much for the other 8 games so far. Most of the time you don't even realize he's in there and considering he's up on the line that's nether a bad or good thing.

    Now with all that being said I have a feeling I'm going to get greif over Jones so I want to say this kid looks like a real deal as a sub rusher and I'd be happy next year to see him coming in on 3rd downs and like to see him develop but he's a liability as a starter up the middle and after picking up Sopo the only reason Jones will remain a 3 down DT is because Vellano is just as bad against the run and they have no one better to start. Moving forward though I can see him taking a Wright type of role. A great sub rusher who can fill in as a starter in a pinch.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    I'd go wth Jones. He's been a difference maker. 5 sacks in five games is really big. He's basically won the starting job. He is a minus run defender, but a plus pass rusher. He also brings an energy to the position that I like. 

    Then Dobson. If he hadn't had such a rough start, he would be the clear #1. At any rate, as he gets more comfortable with the routes, he is starting to be an offensive difference maker. For the first time since the year before Moss left, NE has a player who can actually stretch the field. This is immense for a short pass/play action  based offense.

    Then Ryan, he has made some big mistakes and some big plays. 

    Lastly Collins. I understand the learning curve is highest here, at LBer. I understand Ne has the most depth there too. Lastly, I understand first round expectations kind of load any assessment one could make.  But he has looked shaky out there, with just a sprinkling of good plays. NE is playing a special teams player (Fletcher) over Collins. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHAMPSXLVIII. Show CHAMPSXLVIII's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    I get to correct you! Collins first pick but in second round

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No one is exactly running away with it at this point. Imo here's how I would rank them:

    1# Ryan, has come in and has made some big impact plays. He's still making rook mistakes but compared to all the other rooks he's made the least. He's also taking the starting job from Arrington on the outside. Now that isn't saying a ton considering how bad Arrington has been yet again on the outside but him earning a position instead of given to him because of lack of players or injury does deserve credit.

    #2 Dobson, you look at Dobson and he has flash some brilliance and he continues to improve but he's had his share of facepalm moments. However, you can't overlook the fact that for a while there was no one else and Dobson has come up with some good catches down the strentch.

    #3 Jones, you have someone like Jones who has 5 sacks but he's very weak against the run and frankly since 60% of his pressures result in sacks that means he's not getting effective pressure on QB's for a majority of the time he's on the field. Really he has the most miss leading stats of any rook this year and only a fool would hang his hat on this arguement on 5 sacks. Of course it's still an impressive feat and considering the other rooks does put hm into top 3 conversation.

    #4 Jamie Collins, though not really interacting on the D his contribution to the ST plays gives him the 4th spot in my mind. Clearly of the other rooks he's given more just through STs than the others have given on normal downs.

    #5 Buchanan, Buchanan had 1 great game with 2 sacks but really hasn't shown much for the other 8 games so far. Most of the time you don't even realize he's in there and considering he's up on the line that's nether a bad or good thing.

    Now with all that being said I have a feeling I'm going to get greif over Jones so I want to say this kid looks like a real deal as a sub rusher and I'd be happy next year to see him coming in on 3rd downs and like to see him develop but he's a liability as a starter up the middle and after picking up Sopo the only reason Jones will remain a 3 down DT is because Vellano is just as bad against the run and they have no one better to start. Moving forward though I can see him taking a Wright type of role. A great sub rusher who can fill in as a starter in a pinch.

    [/QUOTE]

    I had posted this earlier;

     

    1. Re: ROY rankings

      posted at 11/10/2013 1:52 PM EST

      • rkarp
      • Posts: 5435
      • First: 1/29/2008
      • Last: 11/10/2013

      In response to zbellino's comment:
      [QUOTE]

      If Chris Jones had played all of the season, he'd have to be top 10 at this point. Unless, of course, you don't rate unheralded players that high. 

       

      He's been nothing short of outstanding. 

      [/QUOTE]

      He has been a pleasant surprise when the team was desperate. He is not a good fit for this defense playing multiple sub packages. His weakness against the run is something other teams have been game planning for, and Vellano having similar deficenicies does Jones no favors. He is a nice 4th or 5th option next year in a rotation playing on passing sub packages

       
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    Chris jones why are people picking Dobson? He's on O. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Chris jones why are people picking Dobson? He's on O. 

    [/QUOTE]

    lol yeah just general rookie talk on my part. Because really if you are only talking D players you are talking Vellano, Harmon, Jones, Buchanan, and Ryan (Collins has been mia) and 3 of them you can't really say very much about. Might as well toss in a O player to make the convo a bit more interesting

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Chris jones why are people picking Dobson? He's on O. 

    [/QUOTE]

    lol yeah just general rookie talk on my part. Because really if you are only talking D players you are talking Vellano, Harmon, Jones, Buchanan, and Ryan (Collins has been mia) and 3 of them you can't really say very much about. Might as well toss in a O player to make the convo a bit more interesting

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree with that. MVR. Most Val rook

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    Not a lot of competition this year.

    The defensive backfield is a team strength and the defensive tackle position is now a team weakness.  Soap was brought in to shore it up. 

    Chris Jones, in my estimation, was a guy in the right position at the right time.  BB needs versatile defensive tackles who can play the run.  Jones can sort of rush inside but he can't hold the point against the run.  He goes down the list.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No one is exactly running away with it at this point. Imo here's how I would rank them:

    1# Ryan, has come in and has made some big impact plays. He's still making rook mistakes but compared to all the other rooks he's made the least. He's also taking the starting job from Arrington on the outside. Now that isn't saying a ton considering how bad Arrington has been yet again on the outside but him earning a position instead of given to him because of lack of players or injury does deserve credit.

    #2 Dobson, you look at Dobson and he has flash some brilliance and he continues to improve but he's had his share of facepalm moments. However, you can't overlook the fact that for a while there was no one else and Dobson has come up with some good catches down the strentch.

    #3 Jones, you have someone like Jones who has 5 sacks but he's very weak against the run and frankly since 60% of his pressures result in sacks that means he's not getting effective pressure on QB's for a majority of the time he's on the field. Really he has the most miss leading stats of any rook this year and only a fool would hang his hat on this arguement on 5 sacks. Of course it's still an impressive feat and considering the other rooks does put hm into top 3 conversation.

    #4 Jamie Collins, though not really interacting on the D his contribution to the ST plays gives him the 4th spot in my mind. Clearly of the other rooks he's given more just through STs than the others have given on normal downs.

    #5 Buchanan, Buchanan had 1 great game with 2 sacks but really hasn't shown much for the other 8 games so far. Most of the time you don't even realize he's in there and considering he's up on the line that's nether a bad or good thing.

    Now with all that being said I have a feeling I'm going to get greif over Jones so I want to say this kid looks like a real deal as a sub rusher and I'd be happy next year to see him coming in on 3rd downs and like to see him develop but he's a liability as a starter up the middle and after picking up Sopo the only reason Jones will remain a 3 down DT is because Vellano is just as bad against the run and they have no one better to start. Moving forward though I can see him taking a Wright type of role. A great sub rusher who can fill in as a starter in a pinch.

    [/QUOTE]

    I had posted this earlier;

     

    1. Re: ROY rankings

      posted at 11/10/2013 1:52 PM EST

      • rkarp
      • Posts: 5435
      • First: 1/29/2008
      • Last: 11/10/2013

      In response to zbellino's comment:
      [QUOTE]

      If Chris Jones had played all of the season, he'd have to be top 10 at this point. Unless, of course, you don't rate unheralded players that high. 

       

      He's been nothing short of outstanding. 

      [/QUOTE]

      He has been a pleasant surprise when the team was desperate. He is not a good fit for this defense playing multiple sub packages. His weakness against the run is something other teams have been game planning for, and Vellano having similar deficenicies does Jones no favors. He is a nice 4th or 5th option next year in a rotation playing on passing sub packages

       

    [/QUOTE]

    "4th or 5th"?

    He's proven to be no worse than first subpackage DT on the field as 3rd on the depth chart and he's only a rookie.

    I also think he needs some time next to a true NT/DT type like Sopoaga.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    depending on contracts, I do think the Pats preference is to have Vince, Kelly and Soap as 1,2,3...with Jones and maybe Vellano as 4 and 5...have to see if they can figure out the $$$...Vince and Soap at $14M combined is a lot.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    depending on contracts, I do think the Pats preference is to have Vince, Kelly and Soap as 1,2,3...with Jones and maybe Vellano as 4 and 5...have to see if they can figure out the $$$...Vince and Soap at $14M combined is a lot.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure they bring Soap back at the $3mil price tag unless he wants to take a pay cut. However, I do expect them to get a more capable primary backup now with Wilfork's injury. So if they get someone in day 1 or 2 I expect them to be slightly higher on the depth chart than Jones. Heck, I rag on Armstead but if he is what everyone expects him to be, including Rusty, wouldn't that push Jones to 4th on the depth chart behind him? So I'd say 4th or 5th option sounds about right into next year. That doesn't mean he's not good but he's not Kelly or Vince and they both will need a solid 3 down  type of backup, hopefully one to eventually take over Wilforks role, so that pushes Jones even further down. Just because he was 3rd in depth this year doesn't mean anything because they didn't have any depth. It's like saying you were 3rd in a 4 man race. Doesn't mean you'll be 3rd in a 6 man race next year. Just look at Francis as a prime example

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    depending on contracts, I do think the Pats preference is to have Vince, Kelly and Soap as 1,2,3...with Jones and maybe Vellano as 4 and 5...have to see if they can figure out the $$$...Vince and Soap at $14M combined is a lot.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure they bring Soap back at the $3mil price tag unless he wants to take a pay cut. However, I do expect them to get a more capable primary backup now with Wilfork's injury. So if they get someone in day 1 or 2 I expect them to be slightly higher on the depth chart than Jones. Heck, I rag on Armstead but if he is what everyone expects him to be, including Rusty, wouldn't that push Jones to 4th on the depth chart behind him? So I'd say 4th or 5th option sounds about right into next year. That doesn't mean he's not good but he's not Kelly or Vince and they both will need a solid 3 down  type of backup, hopefully one to eventually take over Wilforks role, so that pushes Jones even further down. Just because he was 3rd in depth this year doesn't mean anything because they didn't have any depth. It's like saying you were 3rd in a 4 man race. Doesn't mean you'll be 3rd in a 6 man race next year. Just look at Francis as a prime example

    [/QUOTE]

    until proven other wise, I see Armstead at about 285 pounds on the edge, having to out play Buchanon next year for snaps.

    DE-Nink, Jones, Armstead, Buchanon

    DT-Vince, Kelly, Soap, Jones, Vellano

    Assuming the PAts are drafting 25-32 or later, I simply dont see a dt drafted there by the Pats 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    until proven other wise, I see Armstead at about 285 pounds on the edge, having to out play Buchanon next year for snaps.

    DE-Nink, Jones, Armstead, Buchanon

    DT-Vince, Kelly, Soap, Jones, Vellano

    Assuming the PAts are drafting 25-32 or later, I simply dont see a dt drafted there by the Pats 

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with the DE spot though I expect Armstead to gain some weight back and play around 300 this offseason. It might be good to see him inside on run downs and outside on passing. But, as you have said and I have multiple times we still have no clue what he'll become. I was just saying in general everyone, esp Rusty, expected great things of him and even for him to start this season so why would Rusty question Jones as 4th on the depth chart if he thinks so highly of Armstead?

    Soap is up in the air. You could see he's starting on the back side of his career in Pitt and he's a bandaid right now. Not nearly worth $3mil so I'm not even convinced they bring him back if he's willing to take a pay cut.

    I see a couple of names out in the draft that should fall int he 20-60 range who I think the Pats would be interested in. Hageman from Minn and Nix from ND are the obvious one who might be closer to the 20 side than where we're picking but there's also Hart from Oregon, Quarles from SC, and DaQuan Jones from Penn. There's also a 3rd - early 4th round guy in McCullers who is a very large body himself having a major down year but he was a potential 1st round talent going into the season. So there is talent where they want to pick. The question becomes do they want another TE (they might have to go early if they want one), a C (not a great draft for C's), a G (some nice RG's in the 70-120 range), or if they don't feel strongly about Talib maybe going CB again and rolling with Ryan, Dennard, and another rook which is slowly becoming a tradition.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    In response to melswitt's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Based on production and snaps played so far, and likely to play for the rest of the season, I'd say Jones...In fact, it's going to be up to the 2 rookie D Lineman in the middle upon whose shoulders the Pats eventual success, or lack thereof, will largely rest....

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    until proven other wise, I see Armstead at about 285 pounds on the edge, having to out play Buchanon next year for snaps.

    DE-Nink, Jones, Armstead, Buchanon

    DT-Vince, Kelly, Soap, Jones, Vellano

    Assuming the PAts are drafting 25-32 or later, I simply dont see a dt drafted there by the Pats 

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with the DE spot though I expect Armstead to gain some weight back and play around 300 this offseason. It might be good to see him inside on run downs and outside on passing. But, as you have said and I have multiple times we still have no clue what he'll become. I was just saying in general everyone, esp Rusty, expected great things of him and even for him to start this season so why would Rusty question Jones as 4th on the depth chart if he thinks so highly of Armstead?

    Soap is up in the air. You could see he's starting on the back side of his career in Pitt and he's a bandaid right now. Not nearly worth $3mil so I'm not even convinced they bring him back if he's willing to take a pay cut.

    I see a couple of names out in the draft that should fall int he 20-60 range who I think the Pats would be interested in. Hageman from Minn and Nix from ND are the obvious one who might be closer to the 20 side than where we're picking but there's also Hart from Oregon, Quarles from SC, and DaQuan Jones from Penn. There's also a 3rd - early 4th round guy in McCullers who is a very large body himself having a major down year but he was a potential 1st round talent going into the season. So there is talent where they want to pick. The question becomes do they want another TE (they might have to go early if they want one), a C (not a great draft for C's), a G (some nice RG's in the 70-120 range), or if they don't feel strongly about Talib maybe going CB again and rolling with Ryan, Dennard, and another rook which is slowly becoming a tradition.

    [/QUOTE]

    Soap I am told is willing to do what it takes financially to stay in the league and win a SB. He is willing to do that in NE.

    I think the Pats have to trade up to get Nix or Hageman, and I dont think either one of them is worth it...Pats sit back and wait to the 3rd or 4th to pick a DT imo

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats DrOY

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Soap I am told is willing to do what it takes financially to stay in the league and win a SB. He is willing to do that in NE.

    I think the Pats have to trade up to get Nix or Hageman, and I dont think either one of them is worth it...Pats sit back and wait to the 3rd or 4th to pick a DT imo

     

    [/QUOTE]

    If that's the case with Soap he'd be a good low cost addition. Still would like to see a long term solution for Wilfrok but Jones, Kelly, Soap, and Wilfork seem solid moving forward. I think Vellano will have to work for his spot next season and Armstead is still an X factor. 

    I actually like Hageman a lot. He reminds me of a poor mans version of Watt actually and I do think he'll have a similar rise but there is a chance because of the QB heavy draft he might be in a range that the Pats could make a Jones type of trade up to get him. Like I said though I see a lot of potential in McCullers so if they wait till the 3rd or 4th and pick him up as a developmental prospect I'd be perfectly happy with that too.

     

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