Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrogLegs. Show FrogLegs's posts

    Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    A report from Reiss: http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/.
    I am really puzzled on that one. Burgess is 6-2, 260-pound (i.e. too small for a 3-4 OLB) and 31 years old!
    To me it doesn't make sense to trade 2010 picks for an old and undersized OLB while for instance Everette Brown (6-2, 256) was there when the Pats picked in the 2nd round of the 2009 draft. Frown
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]A report from Reiss: http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/ . I am really puzzled on that one. Burgess is 6-2, 260-pound (i.e. too small for a 3-4 OLB) and 31 years old! To me it doesn't make sense to trade 2010 picks for an old and undersized OLB while for instance Everette Brown (6-2, 256) was there when the Pats picked in the 2nd round of the 2009 draft.
    Posted by FrogLegs[/QUOTE]

    This isn't puzzling at all, sounds like a great pick up to me.  This guy' been to multiple pro bowls, led the league in sacks in 2005, had 11 the next year and has been hampered by injuries the last two, playing only limited but productive time. 

    Being that I'm a long time conspiracy theorist I have to wonder whether the last two seasons if he has been hurt or just realized he is in NFL purgatory in Oakland and he (or his agent) decided he should take some time off... it worked for Randy Moss.

    Players on the worst teams often mysteriously have spotty attendance records before they get to the end of their contracts where they can gripe about the coin, then move on to a more desirable local.  There's no way to tell if someone has a bad hamstring or ab injury, it might be a ruse, he is thirty so I assume he has the right to veto trades..?  Oaklands loss is our gain, I guaruntee if healthy he is a vast improvement over Jason Taylor.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from randomname75. Show randomname75's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    FrogsLegs - Would you consider Adalius Thomas undersized?
    He's 6-2, 270.

    I actually think this makes a lot of sense. Younger and cheaper than Taylor.
    And just flat out pissed off and hungry that he's in Oakland.
    Sounds like a perfect match to me.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrogLegs. Show FrogLegs's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    randomname75,
    Well, A. Thomas is 3 inches taller and by far heavier than I so I wouldn't consider him undersized. Laughing
    It just seems that Bill Belichick favors OLB in the 6-4, 260 mold. With his bulk A. Thomas also has the flexibility to play ILB. That's perhaps what B. Belichick likes in him.
    I was just wondering why the Pats passed on Everette Brown (who has the same height and weight as Burgess but is younger and cheaper) and now seem to be interested in Burgess.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    Burgess is a good player. This all comes down to money. And "I'll believe it when I see it'.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    Adalius Thomas is 270 and really fast for 270.  Great run-stopper with that weight, can cover, can somewhat bull-rush for a linebacker, and he's a bit shorter than BB's prototypical linebacker.

    Pierre Woods has Jason Taylor's frame without Jason Taylor's age.  Woods will continue to develop.  Reportedly Woods can't stop the run but he's the right guy on third and 10.

    Crable has better than Jason Taylor's wingspan and better than Jason Taylor's speed.  I hope he's been working out and studying the Patriots' complex defense.  BB pointedly didn't praise him recently.  Nick Caserio defended him somewhat as better than chopped liver.

    Now for Burgess, he's a bit short and his production plummeted last year so maybe he's permanently injured too, but he's experienced.  He'd come with a one year only contract.  If the Patriots can get him from Al Davis cheaper than what they paid for Randy Moss, a fourth rounder,...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]randomname75, Well, A. Thomas is 3 inches taller and by far heavier than I so I wouldn't consider him undersized. It just seems that Bill Belichick favors OLB in the 6-4, 260 mold. With his bulk A. Thomas also has the flexibility to play ILB. That's perhaps what B. Belichick likes in him. I was just wondering why the Pats passed on Everette Brown (who has the same height and weight as Burgess but is younger and cheaper) and now seem to be interested in Burgess.
    Posted by FrogLegs[/QUOTE]

    Simple.

    Brown = rookie, no NFL experience

    Burgess = proven pass rushing veteran in NFL.

    You would rather get an unproven OLB in the draft with a secong round pick or possibly trade a 3rd round pick for a proven veteran?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonBobBlowhard. Show BostonBobBlowhard's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]A report from Reiss: http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/ . I am really puzzled on that one. Burgess is 6-2, 260-pound (i.e. too small for a 3-4 OLB) and 31 years old! To me it doesn't make sense to trade 2010 picks for an old and undersized OLB while for instance Everette Brown (6-2, 256) was there when the Pats picked in the 2nd round of the 2009 draft.
    Posted by FrogLegs[/QUOTE]

    A great post. I been catching heat for criticizing the quantity over quality Patriots draft at a time when we needed a few key positions. So many good guys were available at 23(Ravens took Oher, who was a top 15 projection), 26 (traded down again), and then Everette Brown dropped way below projections and we took 3 guys ahread of him. When we traded up with Oakland in Round Two, I thought it would be to get Brown.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonBobBlowhard. Show BostonBobBlowhard's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]FrogsLegs - Would you consider Adalius Thomas undersized? He's 6-2, 270. I actually think this makes a lot of sense. Younger and cheaper than Taylor. And just flat out pissed off and hungry that he's in Oakland. Sounds like a perfect match to me.
    Posted by randomname75[/QUOTE]

    Burgess will not go cheap.
    Why is it in here that when a trade for one of our guys comes up, you assume heavy compensation (O'Connell for a number one?), but when we want someone the guy can be had for a sixth round pick or so?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from randomname75. Show randomname75's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    BlowHard

    Exactly where did I say it would be a 6th pick?
    Exactly where did I say heavy compensation was needed? For what? For who?

    Stay with me here:  focus.

    Don't try to read into something that isn't there.
    I said he'd be cheaper than Taylor. That's it.
    I think a third round pick would be fair.
    And I think it makes more sense that drafting someone they weren't in love with who is unproven. We already have young guys. We need veteran experience. Not another rookie.

    BTW - don't you think we should have gotten a first round pick for Ruud?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonBobBlowhard. Show BostonBobBlowhard's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]BlowHard Exactly where did I say it would be a 6th pick? Exactly where did I say heavy compensation was needed? For what? For who? Stay with me here:  focus. Don't try to read into something that isn't there. I said he'd be cheaper than Taylor. That's it. I think a third round pick would be fair. And I think it makes more sense that drafting someone they weren't in love with who is unproven. We already have young guys. We need veteran experience. Not another rookie. BTW - don't you think we should have gotten a first round pick for Ruud?
    Posted by randomname75[/QUOTE]


    Sorry, Random. Some guy was in here last week suggesting we trade O'Connell for a number one, and that still gets me. You are right that Burgess is well worth a 3, maybe even one of the 2's we have.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrogLegs. Show FrogLegs's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    m1020us,

    Let me think:

    - Burgess = 31 years old, injury prone, 3.5 sacks in 10 games last season, $2 million base salary for 2009 and a possible 3rd rnd pick in 2010.

    OR

    - Brown =  22 years old rookie with a rare initial quickness off the snap, 21.5 tackles for loss, 13.5 sacks in 2008, a contract in the $3 millions 4 years range and a 2nd rnd pick in 2009.

    Sorry but I would take my chance on the rookie...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]m1020us, Let me think: - Burgess = 31 years old, injury prone, 3.5 sacks in 10 games last season, $2 million base salary for 2009 and a possible 3rd rnd pick in 2010. OR - Brown =  22 years old rookie with a rare initial quickness off the snap, 21.5 tackles for loss, 13.5 sacks in 2008, a contact in the $3 millions 4 years range and a 2nd rnd pick in 2009. Sorry but I would take my chance on the rookie...
    Posted by FrogLegs[/QUOTE]

    Burgess missed 2 games in 2006, 4 games last year...before that he played 16 games 2 years in a row.  That is hardly injury prone......
    He had 3.5 sacks on a bad defense last year....Moss was bad in Oakland before we got him and he comes here to break the TD record for WR's.  2 million and a 3rd round pick is worth it for a 2 times probowler.

    Brown has not played a snap in the NFL, you can not use the College stats to compare to the pros.  And his contract would be higher than Burgess....
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrogLegs. Show FrogLegs's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    m1020us,

    /> Burgess missed 2 games in 2006

    2006? That's ages ago in the NFL!

    /> 4 games last year

    Reiss reports that he played only 10 games last season.

    /> That is hardly injury prone......

    It just seems that the injury bug caught up on him lately.

    /> Brown has not played a snap in the NFL, you can not use the College stats
    /> to compare to the pros.

    You are right a rookie is just a crapshot but if only half of his college stats translate to the NFL that would be more than Burgess did last season.

    /> And his contract would be higher than Burgess....

    Really? As a second rounder Wheatley got last year a four-year, $2.595 million contract. How much do you think a 2nd rnd pick will get this year? $2 million a year like Burgess?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]m1020us, /> Burgess missed 2 games in 2006 2006? That's ages ago in the NFL! /> 4 games last year Reiss reports that he played only 10 games last season. /> That is hardly injury prone...... It just seems that the injury bug caught up on him lately. /> Brown has not played a snap in the NFL, you can not use the College stats /> to compare to the pros. You are right a rookie is just a crapshot but if only half of his college stats translate to the NFL that would be more than Burgess did last season. /> And his contract would be higher than Burgess.... Really? As a second rounder Wheatley got last year a four-year, $2.595 million contract. How much do you think a 2nd rnd pick will get this year? $2 million a year like Burgess?
    Posted by FrogLegs[/QUOTE]

    So based on your thinking, we should go with O'Connell instead of Brady....or kept Cassell and traded Brady?  Because after all, what Brady did 2 years ago is AGES AGO and the injury bug has caught up with him.  Brady has missed more games the last 2 years than Burgess did.

    He missed 2 in 2007 and 6 in 2008, what did I say?


    2 million for Burgess is a bargain......he would command more than that in the open market.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

         To All:

         From everything I've read and heard about Brown, teams didn't think that he could transition from college DE to a 3-4 OLB. Thats' why he slid into the mid- second round. There, he was selected by a 4-3 defense team, Carolina...who took him as a replacement for the eventually departing Julius Peppers.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrooklineRob. Show BrooklineRob's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]Burgess will not go cheap. Why is it in here that when a trade for one of our guys comes up, you assume heavy compensation (O'Connell for a number one?), but when we want someone the guy can be had for a sixth round pick or so?
    Posted by BostonBobBlowhard[/QUOTE]

    BBB

    Randy Moss went for a 4th round pick because he was supposedly injured a lot and his best years were behind him.  Oakland agreed to that deal.  Burgess has been hurt and is in the last year of his contract.  How much leverage can Oakland have?  Let them keep him then and watch him pout and then walk away for nothing at the end of the year.  Or they can be realistic and take a draft pick for a guy that's probably not in their long term plans. I think the leverage favors the Pats here.    

    Re: O'Connell and other players (Cassel, Hobbs, Vrabel), sometimes overzealous fans have clouded judgement when it comes to evaluating their home team players.  It's sort of like selling your house or trading in your car.  Of course you think it's worth more.  But I'm sure BB knows more about true value and leverage than we all do. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    If this guy comes cheap then its a good pick up. We do love ex Raiders around here lol There is just something about taking a player from one of teh worst teams in the NFL and bringing him to one of the best teams and watching him blow like Moss did. Even LaMont Jordan looked good at teh end of last year when he was healthy.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonBobBlowhard. Show BostonBobBlowhard's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]BBB Randy Moss went for a 4th round pick because he was supposedly injured a lot and his best years were behind him.  Oakland agreed to that deal.  Burgess has been hurt and is in the last year of his contract.  How much leverage can Oakland have?  Let them keep him then and watch him pout and then walk away for nothing at the end of the year.  Or they can be realistic and take a draft pick for a guy that's probably not in their long term plans. I think the leverage favors the Pats here.     Re: O'Connell and other players (Cassel, Hobbs, Vrabel), sometimes overzealous fans have clouded judgement when it comes to evaluating their home team players.  It's sort of like selling your house or trading in your car.  Of course you think it's worth more.  But I'm sure BB knows more about true value and leverage than we all do. 
    Posted by BrooklineRob[/QUOTE]

    There are other teams who know who Burgess is and who will take a shot at him. He won't go for less than a number two pick, probably a number two plus conditionals.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonBobBlowhard. Show BostonBobBlowhard's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]     To All:      From everything I've read and heard about Brown, teams didn't think that he could transition from college DE to a 3-4 OLB. Thats' why he slid into the mid- second round. There, he was selected by a 4-3 defense team, Carolina...who took him as a replacement for the eventually departing Julius Peppers.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    A big "maybe". Gil Brandt was saying this guy could be the biggest boom or bust pick in the draft. Maybe will be an outside terror, or maybe a dud. Is he Merriman or is he Gholston?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonBobBlowhard. Show BostonBobBlowhard's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]m1020us, Let me think: - Burgess = 31 years old, injury prone, 3.5 sacks in 10 games last season, $2 million base salary for 2009 and a possible 3rd rnd pick in 2010. OR - Brown =  22 years old rookie with a rare initial quickness off the snap, 21.5 tackles for loss, 13.5 sacks in 2008, a contract in the $3 millions 4 years range and a 2nd rnd pick in 2009. Sorry but I would take my chance on the rookie...
    Posted by FrogLegs[/QUOTE]

    Thanks, Frog. My point is that we had numerous picks and only a few real needs, so it was well worth taking a shot on a boom or bust type guy like Brown. Maybe he craps out like Gholston, but maybe he becomes a Suggs or Merriman. With a second round pick, it was worth a shot.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrooklineRob. Show BrooklineRob's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]There are other teams who know who Burgess is and who will take a shot at him. He won't go for less than a number two pick, probably a number two plus conditionals.
    Posted by BostonBobBlowhard[/QUOTE]

    If you say so... 

    No one knew who Randy Moss was?  Burgess has one year on his contract and was hurt last year.  I just don't see someone giving a #2 for someone who can walk at the end of the year, who will be 31 years old and is a few seasons removed from the pro bowl type of player he was.  I could see a conditional pick for the guy, but just don't see multiple draft picks.   
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]There are other teams who know who Burgess is and who will take a shot at him. He won't go for less than a number two pick, probably a number two plus conditionals.
    Posted by BostonBobBlowhard[/QUOTE]

         It makes no sense for a non-contending team to go after Burgess. Teams in the AFC West won't get him, because the Raiders aren't going to trade within their division.

          The contending teams are the Steelers, Colts, Jets, 'Fins, Giants, Eagles, Cowboys, Bears, GB, Minnesota, Atlanta, and Cards. I don't see any of these teams willing to part with a second round pick. As you have stated, he'll be 31 in October, will  be a FA at the end of the year, and has had some injury problems. 

         Among these teams, the only ones that seemingly have a great need for him will be Arizona and Atlanta. Forget about Atlanta, since they don't have a second rounder next year (Tony Gonzalez trade)...and Arizona needs all the cap space it can get to resign WR Anquan Boldin, and LB Carlos Dansby.    

         The Pats should be able to get him for, say, a 3rd and 6th rounder. That said, they need to keep an eye on the Eagles...who might try to swoop in and reacquire Burgess.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrogLegs. Show FrogLegs's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    m1020us,

    /> So based on your thinking, we should go with O'Connell instead
    /> of Brady....or kept Cassell and traded Brady?  Because after all,
    /> what Brady did 2 years ago is AGES AGO and the injury bug has
    /> caught up with him.  Brady has missed more games the last 2
    /> years than Burgess did.

    Hum, you are comparing Brady and Burgess, don't you? So based on your thinking Burgess is headed to the HOF? You also seem to imply that the QB position is as physically demanding as the LB position. And btw, did Burgess suffer a season ending injury like Brady did? Your comparisons make no sense...
    m1020us, I am perfectly fine with you not sharing my views but next time please bring more intelligent arguments (like TexasPat does for instance) to this discussion. Thx in advance.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Q

    OK for all the GM's out here in cyberspace,could it be that Everette Brown wasn't rated ahead of the players that the Patriots selected in the draft instead of E.Brown? Also I don't think BB gives a hoot about the heigth of an outside linebacker as long as he's productive.Burgess may very well be using the I ain't playing ploy that all guys who play on losing teams use,that being said I also believe that Al Davis likes sending players to the Patriots so the rest of NFL owners get mad at him and also because he gets good value in return as BB doesn't try and cheat a team as far as compensation is concerned,the reason that the Patriots got Randy for a fourth round pick is that nobody else would offer a 4th for him.I like Burgess as an option and when I first read an article about the Patriots having conversations with the Raiders about possibly acquiring him I said that if the price is right then it'll get done.BB doesn't hem and haw if he wants a player on his team then it's a done deal.Here's the list of free agents he's signed this off season:TBC,Baker,Fred Taylor,Shawn Springs,Then he traded for Greg Lewis,he also signed Bodden,Hodel,Galloway,Al Johnson,he then traded for Alex Smith,back to the free agents he added Izzo's replacement Vinny Ciurciu,Brandon McGowan and DL Steve Williams as the roster stands right now without the rookies from the draft he has 92 players to sort out!So my question to all of the Cyberspace GM's is do you think that if BB wants a player that trading a draft choice is all that important to BB,or that he won't try and improve his team at all costs????Check this out there were 3 Naval Academy players available as UDFA's all 3 signed with the Patriots,which only serves as an example the BB leaves no stone unturned in the never ending search for quality football players.My favorite acquisition so far this year has to be Alex Smith because I think he's a much better solution at TE then Watson is,I also liked the fact that he's added a few players with ties to New England to his roster with the additions of Ron Brace,Darius Butler,Vinny Cuirciu,Brad Listorti and Brandon McGowan.You never know where the next gem is going to come from but don't be shocked if it's McClinton from Kentucky or a guy Appelby from Virginia these guys were 4 year starters at big time football programs so like I said  BB knows what he's looking for in football players to mesh with his team concepts....Super Bowl bound New England Patriots 2009.In BB we trust!
     

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