Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    The Eagles might be competition. In fact there were rumors that they were talking as well.

    I think a second is a bit much for a player with Burgess' recent injury history in a contract year.

    There are simply too many angles where it could blow up in NE's face, and losing a valuable second for nothing would be silly.

    A third sounds right. If Burgess bounces back Oak can still feel like they got rid of someone who had no interest in being a Raider and got something decent in return. If Burgess blows up, NE hasn't sacrifice a very significant portion of its wealth.

    And to be clear, I don't think any team should give more than that. If the Iggles or anyone else wants to swoop in with a second or higher, they can assume that particular risk/reward ratio.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    The knock on Brown is that he is from FSU and he doesn't play at "NFL speed."

    If you don't pay attention to the draft every season . . . just google FSU pass rushers, and you will probably get a list of the spectacular failures to come out of there.

    FSU is known for inflating their triangle numbers (they had Brown listed as 6'4"), and producing a defensive "system" that is irreplicable on the professional level, but lets mediocre pass rush ends put up monstrous numbers.

    Brown was the most productive college DE in this class, but he still went way behind other prospects who were clearly better athletes. He has a decent first step, but is sort of a straight line rusher. To be honest, he would look (physically) almost more like a 2-down ILB in the 3-4 based on size and stiffness. 

    If I had my choice of Everette Brown four four seasons for a #41 and Derrick Burgess for a 3rd (assuming it is a third) that will probably be more like a 4th rounder based on how far NE might go next season, for a one season tryout I might be inclined to take Burgess.

    It is just a better value. Proven player. Less to give up. Not on the hook long term if he is out of gas.




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]The knock on Brown is that he is from FSU and he doesn't play at "NFL speed." If you don't pay attention to the draft every season . . . just google FSU pass rushers, and you will probably get a list of the spectacular failures to come out of there. FSU is known for inflating their triangle numbers (they had Brown listed as 6'4"), and producing a defensive "system" that is irreplicable on the professional level, but lets mediocre pass rush ends put up monstrous numbers. Brown was the most productive college DE in this class, but he still went way behind other prospects who were clearly better athletes. He has a decent first step, but is sort of a straight line rusher. To be honest, he would look (physically) almost more like a 2-down ILB in the 3-4 based on size and stiffness.  If I had my choice of Everette Brown four four seasons for a #41 and Derrick Burgess for a 3rd (assuming it is a third) that will probably be more like a 4th rounder based on how far NE might go next season, for a one season tryout I might be inclined to take Burgess. It is just a better value. Proven player. Less to give up. Not on the hook long term if he is out of gas.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

         Z:

         Keep an eye on Julius Peppers coming to the Pats...in 2010!! Next year, he'll be an unrestricted free agent...so Carolina won't need to be compensated.

         Burgess could be the bridge to Peppers.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    Tex, I would be all for that. Adding a player like Peppers would be huge.

    A five man front of Thomas, Ty, Fork, Sey and Peppers would be heavy. And a 43 sub of Green, Sey, Wright and Peppers would be dominant as well.

    Burgess could be a solidfying pickup, to give NE a vet "safety-net" while they try the young guys out on the field. But even then, he could be more.

    If Burgess is good here, he is young enough to warrant a short term deal from NE over the next few.

    Like you said, NE might not find a "10" that BB wants, and Crable and Redd might not develop into that "10" either, but if they roll the dice and Burgess is an "8"the overall talent this defense has on the down line and in the backfield will carry the day. A healthy Burgess and Thomas could be very scary.

    I wasn't for the Jason Taylor signing as much as Burgess. I think he has something left and part of his "injury" was a terrible supporting cast and a case of playing in the "black hole."
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    Burgess would be a great and necessary pickup for the Pats.  Hopefully they get the deal done.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]     Z:      Keep an eye on Julius Peppers coming to the Pats ...in 2010 !!   Next year, he'll be an unrestricted free agent...so Carolina won't need to be compensated.      Burgess could be the bridge to Peppers.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Just can't see them breaking the bank for peppers, free agent or not. I think burgess would be a great bridge player but to a high 2010 draft pick, not to peppers. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]Tex, I would be all for that. Adding a player like Peppers would be huge. A five man front of Thomas, Ty, Fork, Sey and Peppers would be heavy. And a 43 sub of Green, Sey, Wright and Peppers would be dominant as well. Burgess could be a solidfying pickup, to give NE a vet "safety-net" while they try the young guys out on the field. But even then, he could be more. If Burgess is good here, he is young enough to warrant a short term deal from NE over the next few. Like you said, NE might not find a "10" that BB wants, and Crable and Redd might not develop into that "10" either, but if they roll the dice and Burgess is an "8"the overall talent this defense has on the down line and in the backfield will carry the day. A healthy Burgess and Thomas could be very scary. I wasn't for the Jason Taylor signing as much as Burgess. I think he has something left and part of his "injury" was a terrible supporting cast and a case of playing in the "black hole."
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]News Flash!! Ron Brace is going to take someone's spot on that D-line,he's the guy who ate up the ACC and allowed Raji to excel,the dude is a 3 technique down lineman who can play the 2 gap over the center!!He's the gem the Patriots got in this draft and the reason why they didn't draft one of the USC linebackers or E.Brown......
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    The Derrick Burgess deal can be done anytime because the Patriots have a good working relationship with the Raiders and they also have the draft compensation that it'll require to acquire him from the Raiders.Maybe they make it a sweatheart deal like a 3rd round pick and Ben Watson,I think that would get it done...From what I can see even though he knows the offense as well as anyone on the team Watson's job here is in jeopardy!!! So unless he hits the jackpot and every light in his head goes off at the same time I'm guessing he's prime trade material.So why not get the defensive piece to the puzzle in exchange for the excess TE????
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    texas Pat, why wouldn't Carolina be able to franchise Peppers again next yr?? 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    They could slap the tag on him next year, but the price would be around $20 million. After what happened this season I seriously doubt they would tie up that type of space and risk the ramifications. Peppers still hasn't signed his tender, and has clearly stated he wants to move on. Since no one is biting on the $16 million hook, why would they do so when it goes up 20%? Burgess may well be a good pick up, even for one of the 2nd round picks. That's the reason they aquired these picks, I doubt they'll use all three on players. As for the original post, when has BB ever gone with a rookie when there is a veteran LB available? Mayo was a top 10 pick, so that's an exception. Brown had too many question marks, and it's not easy converting from a 4-3 to a 3-4. There's a reason all the 3-4 teams passed over this guy. Also we need to remember, guys like Vrable and Rodney were considered "washed up" before they came to NE. If BB pulls the trigger on this trade it would mean he sees something in this guy. And (IMO) it would be great insurance instead of relying on an unproven player opposite AD.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    I would say the top five or 20% rule might inhibit them.

    Every year you use the exclusive franchise tag on a player you are agreeing to pay that player the average of the top five at his position, or 20% more than his previous salary, which ever is more.

    The rule is designed to protect players with very large contracts. Someone like Payton Manning would actually recieve a pay cut under the franchise tag if his team used it.

    This season Peppers was tendered at a value of $16.7. This is because he was the highest paid DE in the game. The DE tender is $8.9, he made $13.9 last season.

    So a 2010 franchise tag on JP would be over $20 million as part of a 20% raise. Even if he refuses to sign the deal the Panthers still need to keep that money available against the cap in case he does sign.

    I can't see how they could go a whole season with a $20mil handicap. I am still surprised that they are going into this season with a $16.7 mil handicap.

    I too wouldn't rule out a draft pick on a DE/OLB, or another player like Terrell Suggs who seems a slightly more natural fit here. Both Sergio Kindle and George Selvie are coming out next season, and both have the long and athletic (6'5" 250, 4.6/40) triangle numbers BB covets.

    The main point is that Burgess can be had for good value he can also be thought of as a stop-gap between this season, and Peppers or some other long term answer.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]m1020us, /> So based on your thinking, we should go with O'Connell instead /> of Brady....or kept Cassell and traded Brady?  Because after all, /> what Brady did 2 years ago is AGES AGO and the injury bug has /> caught up with him.  Brady has missed more games the last 2 /> years than Burgess did. Hum, you are comparing Brady and Burgess, don't you? So based on your thinking Burgess is headed to the HOF? You also seem to imply that the QB position is as physically demanding as the LB position. And btw, did Burgess suffer a season ending injury like Brady did? Your comparisons make no sense... m1020us, I am perfectly fine with you not sharing my views but next time please bring more intelligent arguments (like TexasPat does for instance) to this discussion. Thx in advance.
    Posted by FrogLegs[/QUOTE]


    You might want to make sense rather than spout off that the pats should have gotten an unproven rookie to start at Outside LB because you think so.

    Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]     Z:      Keep an eye on Julius Peppers coming to the Pats ...in 2010 !!   Next year, he'll be an unrestricted free agent...so Carolina won't need to be compensated.      Burgess could be the bridge to Peppers.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    He is unrestricted now, just that he got tagged..and who knows if he will get tagged again next year?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]He is unrestricted now, just that he got tagged..and who knows if he will get tagged again next year?
    Posted by m1020us[/QUOTE]

         No way he gets tagged next year...so no compensation. The Panthers made a mistake in tagging him this year. It saddled them with a $16.7mil. salary, for a guy that doesn't want to play for them. Had they simply released him, they would have been able to keep several players that they lost...been active in free agency, and would have been awarded a late third round pick in the 2010 draft.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]m1020us, /> So based on your thinking, we should go with O'Connell instead /> of Brady....or kept Cassell and traded Brady?  Because after all, /> what Brady did 2 years ago is AGES AGO and the injury bug has /> caught up with him.  Brady has missed more games the last 2 /> years than Burgess did. Hum, you are comparing Brady and Burgess, don't you? So based on your thinking Burgess is headed to the HOF? You also seem to imply that the QB position is as physically demanding as the LB position. And btw, did Burgess suffer a season ending injury like Brady did? Your comparisons make no sense... m1020us, I am perfectly fine with you not sharing my views but next time please bring more intelligent arguments (like TexasPat does for instance) to this discussion. Thx in advance.
    Posted by FrogLegs[/QUOTE]


    The comparison was not with Brady and Burgess, it is to show how dumb your thinking is....You are the one who said what someone did 2 years ago was AGES AGO in the NFL.  You were the idiot who called Burgess injury prone when he has had 2 injuries in his whole career.....

    You might want to actually be intelligent before you can bring something to the discussion.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]A big "maybe". Gil Brandt was saying this guy could be the biggest boom or bust pick in the draft. Maybe will be an outside terror, or maybe a dud. Is he Merriman or is he Gholston?
    Posted by BostonBobBlowhard[/QUOTE]

         Brown is neither. He's not cut out to be a 3-4 OLB. Thats' why he slid in the draft. He's a 4-3 DE.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    [QUOTE]     Brown is neither. He's not cut out to be a 3-4 OLB. Thats' why he slid in the draft. He's a 4-3 DE.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    So should we listen to the scouts, who might actually know something about football...or Froglegs who knows nothing about football?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from patpscyho. Show patpscyho's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

    Burgess has been reported to have skipped Raiders practice today.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Pats eyeing trade for Burgess

              Today, Burgess sat out a Raiders' practice...though attendance wasn't mandatory.Is this a sign that the Pats and Raiders are getting close to a deal?: http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/20/burgess-not-at-raiders-practice/
     

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