pats = same old problem - defense

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]IThis discussion is not really about 'running the football more'. It is about Brady being under center more and yes running with a power formation as opposed to running draws and such out of the spread.. . I am just saying we are predictable on offense, and even though that is usually good enough to win ion Sundays, It has not been the case come playoff time.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Completely agree.  The defense did make some mistakes in the Jets playoff game, but the real problem was the offense's lack of ability to sustain drives once the Jets figured out a way to stop the Pat's short passing game. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tmmk. Show tmmk's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    Now Albert and Chung are out.  Ugh!!!  Why isn't G. Warren in a pats uniform now?  This defiantly will not help the pats struggling D.  The Pats will miss Merriweather and Sanders a lot this week.  With the shaky defense, hope the offense does not lose their rhythm because Hernandez isn't playing.  Everyone on this board was hoping Price would step-up in Hernandez place...well he is also out!  Oh boy, Sunday is shaping up for a wild ride!

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    I think we hit the 40's today. Defense will let up lots of yards and around 24 points.
     
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    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense : So if a dominant offense suddenly cannot get first downs and is constantly giving up bad field position as well as not taking much time off the clock, they are not hurting the recently rebuilt and extremely young defense?  That is an interesting line of thinking Davedsone.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    It happens to every dominant offense come playoff time.  That's why they say defense wins championships.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tmmk. Show tmmk's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    The defense didn't throw the 4 int's, but they didn't help the situation.  So if Brady has an off day..... Pats havn't proven they can win those type of games.  This defense looks the same as the last few years.  UGH!!!!!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]The defense didn't throw the 4 int's, but they didn't help the situation.  So if Brady has an off day..... Pats havn't proven they can win those type of games.  This defense looks the same as the last few years.  UGH!!!!!
    Posted by tmmk[/QUOTE]


    Believe me I'n not defending the defense here but..I wonder if Brady would have thrown 4 Int's if we threw the ball say 10 less times and ran BJGE or Ridley or whoever more in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs to protect the lead and wear down the opposing defense. Not to mention save our own young D who obviously still cannot get to the QB. I just don't understand.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense : I think you are ignoring that Henne did the same, and BADLY underestimating Fitzpatrick.  What I saw last year was enough to make me respect him, and this year his O line seems to have gotten their act together.  Not saying they will win, just saying he will hang at least 21 points on us.  He can think under pressure and does not make stupid mistakes, so far.  Hope we change all that.  
    Posted by Davedsone[/QUOTE]

    We didn't change all that.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense : Believe me I'n not defending the defense here but..I wonder if Brady would have thrown 4 Int's if we threw the ball say 10 less times and ran BJGE or Ridley or whoever more in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs to protect the lead and wear down the opposing defense. Not to mention save our own young D who obviously still cannot get to the QB. I just don't understand.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    If they were running they wouldn't have scored any points. They were getting about 2 YPC before the Ridley drive. 

    The offense had a couple mistakes, and acouple huge fluke plays against it ... the defense did what it does every single week nowadays ... give up huge TD passes and make penalties in key moments. 

    The defensive "question" exists in isolation from the offense. Running the ball won't improve the defense. 

    Getting better defenders will improve the defense. 

    The object, is to get a defense that can stand on its own .. without a dominat running game or a TB12 offense that spots it 30+ points every week. 

    NE doesn't have that right now .... the rest is excusing the defense. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    But running the ball will eat up time and keep the opposing offense off the field. 

    You are right that running the ball with Woodhead and BJGE and--god knows--Edelman won't get you much.  But the Pats need to start developing a more effective running game--and that means getting a back who qualifies as a starter in this league.  Ridley seems to have potential.  Why aren't we working him into the offense more?  Is this offense so difficult to learn that all our rookies need redshirt years like Price?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    Just to clarify Z--I think their game plan was fine early, but once they get a big lead they need to eat up time and play a bit more conservatively.  They used to do that. In fact, BB used to be brilliant when it came to managing the clock and eating up time once a good lead was established.  They don't seem to even try to do that anymore.  


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]But running the ball will eat up time and keep the opposing offense off the field.  You are right that running the ball with Woodhead and BJGE and--god knows--Edelman won't get you much.  But the Pats need to start developing a more effective running game--and that means getting a back who qualifies as a starter in this league.  Ridley seems to have potential.  Why aren't we working him into the offense more?  Is this offense so difficult to learn that all our rookies need redshirt years like Price?
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Serisouly. It's time to reclaim this topic. NE won the TOP battle, just like they won it last year in the playoffs as well, and won it every week. They are using ball control passing most of the time ... it chews up the same amount of clock as running. 

    Yes, not passing might have prevented the two fluke picks off of bounces ... but it shouldn't matter. The defense folded today like a lawn chair ... the same way it did last week against the Chargers, and the same way it did against the Dolphins.

    Exactly like I said ... if this team doesn't have a huge lead ... it's over for the D. They need to "gel", improve, get new players, whatever .... what is out there now is not championship caliber. The offense, however, IS!

    Reclaim the conversation. 

    This isn't about the running game. It's about the defense. Running the ball IS NOT going to make defense better Pro. You know that as well as anyone. This defense is not good enough to win in the playoffs in tight games. They fold. Right now, they look worse than last season. 

    We can make excuses. But the truth is right there in Bodden getting roasted, McCourty getting roasted, Ninkovich getting swallowed by mediocre tackles, Barret and Brown costing NE a TD apiece. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense : Serisouly. It's time to reclaim this topic. NE won the TOP battle, just like they won it last year in the playoffs as well, and won it every week. They are using ball control passing most of the time ... it chews up the same amount of clock as running.  Yes, not passing might have prevented the two fluke picks off of bounces ... but it shouldn't matter. The defense folded today like a lawn chair ... the same way it did last week against the Chargers, and the same way it did against the Dolphins. Exactly like I said ... if this team doesn't have a huge lead ... it's over for the D. They need to "gel", improve, get new players, whatever .... what is out there now is not championship caliber. The offense, however, IS! Reclaim the conversation.  This isn't about the running game. It's about the defense. Running the ball IS NOT going to make defense better Pro. You know that as well as anyone. This defense is not good enough to win in the playoffs in tight games. They fold. Right now, they look worse than last season.  We can make excuses. But the truth is right there in Bodden getting roasted, McCourty getting roasted, Ninkovich getting swallowed by mediocre tackles, Barret and Brown costing NE a TD apiece. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    I agree about the defense . . . but I also think too much rests on Brady right now.  Brady was trying too hard, I think, and the coaches needed to take some of the pressure off him so he wasn't trying to force plays.  Having a decent running game would have helped a lot in my opinion. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]Just to clarify Z--I think their game plan was fine early, but once they get a big lead they need to eat up time and play a bit more conservatively.  They used to do that. In fact, BB used to be brilliant when it came to managing the clock and eating up time once a good lead was established.  They don't seem to even try to do that anymore.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]


    That is what every team sets themselves up for though. Remember the Colts game last season? The defenses know if they stack the box, they can get off the field and get their "O" another crack at the "kleenex crew" that is wearing Pats defensive jerseys right now. 

    I'm irate about this game, but more so about how this defense simply has not improved one bit in three years. After NE got served (brutally) by the Ravens, I thought it might take a couple years ... a couple years have gone by and it looks like the just changed the names on the back of the jerseys. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense : I agree about the defense . . . but I also think too much rests on Brady right now.  Brady was trying too hard, I think, and the coaches needed to take some of the pressure off him so he wasn't trying to force plays.  Having a decent running game would have helped a lot in my opinion. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Brady isn't the problem. He made a couple mistakes ... a couple were straight flukes. It won't happen every week. Hence NE is still a 13-3 team, that will get bounced in the first or second round of the playoffs, when Brady can still play great, but the other team can slow the "O" down. 

    You know what would also take pressure off Brady Prolate? 

    A decent defense. It would take way, way, way, way more pressure off than just running the ball 5 more times a game. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense : That is what every team sets themselves up for though. Remember the Colts game last season? The defenses know if they stack the box, they can get off the field and get their "O" another crack at the "kleenex crew" that is wearing Pats defensive jerseys right now.  I'm irate about this game, but more so about how this defense simply has not improved one bit in three years. After NE got served (brutally) by the Ravens, I thought it might take a couple years ... a couple years have gone by and it looks like the just changed the names on the back of the jerseys. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, the number of draft picks we've used on DBs really alarms me when you see how weak the secondary is.  


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense : Yeah, the number of draft picks we've used on DBs really alarms me when you see how weak the secondary is.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    And sorry to rant at you Pro. Really. I am venting. 

    But I am also just perplexed that every thread about how porous the defense has been turns to running the ball, special teams, anything but the defenders out there giving up points. 

    It's like a monumental case of denial on these boards ... people are missing what the national media, local media, other fans, and other coaches who game plan for NE are seeing as clear as day. 

    RE: DBs. I didn't like the Dowling pick because he was damaged goods ... other people crowed about the "value." I still hope I am wrong ... but the dude looks like an injury prone player. Bodden looks like he has lost a step, and has been getting burned ... and McCourty is getting taken to school right now .... outside of Chung there isn't a single DB back there I have faith in. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]But running the ball will eat up time and keep the opposing offense off the field.  You are right that running the ball with Woodhead and BJGE and--god knows--Edelman won't get you much.  But the Pats need to start developing a more effective running game--and that means getting a back who qualifies as a starter in this league.  Ridley seems to have potential.  Why aren't we working him into the offense more?  Is this offense so difficult to learn that all our rookies need redshirt years like Price?
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    And yes .. Ridley looks better than BJGE who is a JAG and worst of all a front-runner who looks good when the team is way up, but is invisible when it's close and they need him, or in short yardage when they need him. A good runner would have scored on those two plays on the goal line. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    Relax.  One loss don't mean sh*t.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense : And sorry to rant at you Pro. Really. I am venting.  But I am also just perplexed that every thread about how porous the defense has been turns to running the ball, special teams, anything but the defenders out there giving up points.  It's like a monumental case of denial on these boards ... people are missing what the national media, local media, other fans, and other coaches who game plan for NE are seeing as clear as day.  RE: DBs. I didn't like the Dowling pick because he was damaged goods ... other people crowed about the "value." I still hope I am wrong ... but the dude looks like an injury prone player. Bodden looks like he has lost a step, and has been getting burned ... and McCourty is getting taken to school right now .... outside of Chung there isn't a single DB back there I have faith in. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]


    No, I think you're right about the defense.  But I also think the offense needs to be more diverse too.  And I know you were arguing for a more diverse offense last year yourself . . . so I have a feeling we're more in agreement than disagreement. 

    One thing that does alarm me about the defense is that we haven't been able to improve the talent all that much through the draft. Generally, I've defended BB's value picks, but now I'm beginning to wonder if we just have a talent deficit that comes from trading down too much.  
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense : Serisouly. It's time to reclaim this topic. NE won the TOP battle, just like they won it last year in the playoffs as well, and won it every week. They are using ball control passing most of the time ... it chews up the same amount of clock as running.  Yes, not passing might have prevented the two fluke picks off of bounces ... but it shouldn't matter. The defense folded today like a lawn chair ... the same way it did last week against the Chargers, and the same way it did against the Dolphins. Exactly like I said ... if this team doesn't have a huge lead ... it's over for the D. They need to "gel", improve, get new players, whatever .... what is out there now is not championship caliber. The offense, however, IS! Reclaim the conversation.  This isn't about the running game. It's about the defense. Running the ball IS NOT going to make defense better Pro. You know that as well as anyone. This defense is not good enough to win in the playoffs in tight games. They fold. Right now, they look worse than last season.  We can make excuses. But the truth is right there in Bodden getting roasted, McCourty getting roasted, Ninkovich getting swallowed by mediocre tackles, Barret and Brown costing NE a TD apiece. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Here we are again! lol...I don't think anybody is trying to defend the defense. Giving up 30 ppg obviously is the reason we lose when we lose which lately has only really been in the playoffs. This is a fact and we knew that going in.

    Now with that being known to Bill Belichick, Bill Obrien  and coaching staff going into a season, why after being up by however many points we have been up each game do we continually run the same offense all game long?

    Sooner or later when you throw 50 times a game you are more inclined to putting our defense in a bad situation then if you had started power running the football. To me this is a fact. Qb's average 10-14 int's a year. Runningbacks average 2-4 fumbles a year.  

    This is not about playing a pass control offense because even though Brady is the best at the short to intermediate game, we are still giving defense's the same looks over and over. The announcers noted how the bills kept 5-6 d-backs for a majority of the game. Why if they have 6 d-backs on the field do we not run a power set more? Eventually you have to start taking what a defense gives you and stop cramming the same spread offense down a teams throats.

    This is less about running the ball more and more about passing out of the spread less. Keep Brady under center a little more then we do and utilize the skills of the best play action Qb on the face of the earth.

    With a weak defense and the best QB in the game today with one of the best offense's in NFL history it is not enough to score 30 points. We need to score 30 points and dominate T.O.P to keep this no pass rush defense off the field as much as possible.


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense : No, I think you're right about the defense.  But I also think the offense needs to be more diverse too.  And I know you were arguing for a more diverse offense last year yourself . . . so I have a feeling we're more in agreement than disagreement.  One thing that does alarm me about the defense is that we haven't been able to improve the talent all that much through the draft. Generally, I've defended BB's value picks, but now I'm beginning to wonder if we just have a talent deficit that comes from trading down too much.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    If NE ran the ball more I would like it. More balance, less reps for Brady.  Ridley actually looked good for one drive today, though I think it had more to do with Buffalo being willing to trade time rather than let Brady cruise to a TD at that point. It's always great to do mutliple things well. Hear, hear, run the ball more. OK?

    What does the defense do well at all? Above avg against the run. Poor against WRs, and poor rushing the passer. 

    Here is what I am saying ... I don't think you'll disagree. 

    If NE had the best running attack in football, and ran it 20 more times a game they would still get bounced. They could have Barry "bleeping" Sanders. They could sit Brady on the bench, bring out five TEs, and direct snap it to Barry "bleeping" Sanders all game long. More, better running backs are not going to stop Fitzpatrick or Henne from going over the top on these corners. An extra two minutes TOP this game isn't going to make a difference whe n Fitzy is scoring the ball 95 yards in 16 seconds, then coming back and scoring it 80 in like 2 minutes. 

    Even the world's best offense, that can run, pass, anything, anyway will slow down at some point in a game. Whenever their offense slows down for a second ... the defense gives up points. 

    So, the conversation in this thread, as I am saying, shouldn't be about running. Unless it is about opposing WRs running past NE's defensive backs ...repetedly ... and into the endzone. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]With a weak defense and the best QB in the game today with one of the best offense's in NFL history it is not enough to score 30 points. We need to score 30 points and dominate T.O.P to keep this no pass rush defense off the field as much as possible.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Snip. 

    Champ. Change the topic back to the topic friend. It won't make a difference. Listen. Buffalo scored 21 points and got about 210 yards of offense in what? 5 minutes of playing time? 

    The offense should not have to cover up for the defense in any way whatsoever, at all.  Not with Brady scoring 35 points, or Walter Payton and Jim Brown trading reps and running for 300 combined. If you are going to win a championship you need a defense that can stand on it's own and win a game for you. This one cannot. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: pats = same old problem - defense

    In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pats = same old problem - defense : Snip.  Champ. Change the topic back to the topic friend. It won't make a difference. Listen. Buffalo scored 21 points and got about 210 yards of offense in what? 5 minutes of playing time?  The offense should not have to cover up for the defense in any way whatsoever, at all.  If you are going to win a championship you need a defense that can stand on it's own and win a game for you. This one cannot. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Ok, we'll carry this on in the "RUN THE DAMN BALL" thread!!!! lol. The defense is hurting bad without Chung(or any of the other safeties with 5 years exp that we suddenly cut!!!!!)


    On a side note, how much of this do you think has to do with our minimal blitz style BDB defense.  It doesn't seem to be working!


     

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