Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks

    I've been saying all along that CB was a big need for the Pats, so I'm not disappointed they took a CB in the first round.  But I have to admit the pick bothers me--not because they made it this year, but because they keep making it every year and yet the secondary never improves.  It seems like every draft the Pats keep trading down to get more picks to spend on DBs.  Sadly, most of these DBs turn out to be busts.  We have a team that's been loaded up with corners and safeties, most of whom are at best nickel or dime backs, and many of whom aren't even on the team after a year or two. Despite all these DBs we take in the draft, our secondary gets burned regularly.  And because we keep trading away high picks to get more quantity and "value" in the defensive backfield, other critical parts of the team--like OLB and WR--are ignored.  

    I'm hoping McCourty turns out to be the answer opposite Bodden.  As I've been saying all week, I think CB is one of our highest needs.  But given how many corners and safeties we've drafted over the past few years, DB shouldn't be a need at all.  If McCourty turns out to be a bust (and worse if Kyle Wilson turns out to be a stud), this draft will have been a disaster.  If McCourty turns out to be the shut down corner we so desperately need, then all is forgiven . . .

    But I just can't help wondering if we're really getting value for all the lower round picks BB stockpiles?  Why not once in a while go for a sure bet in the first round--even if it means, god forbid, trading up?  After all, if you look at a list of pro bowl players, the vast majority were first round picks.  A decent number were second round picks.  But once you're past the second round the odds of getting pro bowl quality talent drop precipitously.  Sometimes you need to fill roster spots. Sometimes you need talent.  Right now, I think the Pats need talent.  I hope McCourty turns out to be talent.  And I hope in the second round there's still talent at WR and OLB and several other positions where the Pats are weak. The Pats desperately need talent out of this draft.  I guess we'll have to wait and see what BB gives us . . . 




     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks

    In Response to Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks:
    I've been saying all along that CB was a big need for the Pats, so I'm not disappointed they took a CB in the first round.  But I have to admit the pick bothers me--not because they made it this year, but because they keep making it every year and yet the secondary never improves.  It seems like every draft the Pats keep trading down to get more picks to spend on DBs.  Sadly, most of these DBs turn out to be busts.  We have a team that's been loaded up with corners and safeties, most of whom are at best nickel or dime backs, and many of whom aren't even on the team after a year or two. Despite all these DBs we take in the draft, our secondary gets burned regularly.  And because we keep trading away high picks to get more quantity and "value" in the defensive backfield, other critical parts of the team--like OLB and WR--are ignored.   I'm hoping McCourty turns out to be the answer opposite Bodden.  As I've been saying all week, I think CB is one of our highest needs.  But given how many corners and safeties we've drafted over the past few years, DB shouldn't be a need at all.  If McCourty turns out to be a bust (and worse if Kyle Wilson turns out to be a stud), this draft will have been a disaster.  If McCourty turns out to be the shut down corner we so desperately need, then all is forgiven . . . But I just can't help wondering if we're really getting value for all the lower round picks BB stockpiles?  Why not once in a while go for a sure bet in the first round--even if it means, god forbid, trading up?  After all, if you look at a list of pro bowl players, the vast majority were first round picks.  A decent number were second round picks.  But once you're past the second round the odds of getting pro bowl quality talent drop precipitously.  Sometimes you need to fill roster spots. Sometimes you need talent.  Right now, I think the Pats need talent.  I hope McCourty turns out to be talent.  And I hope in the second round there's still talent at WR and OLB and several other positions where the Pats are weak. The Pats desperately need talent out of this draft.  I guess we'll have to wait and see what BB gives us . . . 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid



    True. Isn't that why there were so many people who wanted help at DE, DT, OLB? So that a "great" pass rush could mask our secondary problems? Especially, if we are counting on these young secondary players to improve their second or 3rd year? If committing a high pick to the secondary, Why not trade up to get a joe haden or eric berry? We had the picks o do so.....
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks

    In Response to Re: Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks:
    In Response to Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks : True. Isn't that why there were so many people who wanted help at DE, DT, OLB? So that a "great" pass rush could mask our secondary problems? Especially, if we are counting on these young secondary players to improve their second or 3rd year? If committing a high pick to the secondary, Why not trade up to get a joe haden or eric berry? We had the picks o do so.....
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii

    Yeah . . . the pass rush is key to better pass defense.  But the funny thing is the other positions where we keep trading down for quantity and "value" are DL and LB.  In recent years, we've drafted a lot of those guys too with low-round picks.  And we're not getting better at those positions either.  Over the past few years, the talent on our D-Line has come with the high picks: Seymour, Wilfork, Warren.  The other guys (Hill, Brace, Smith, etc . . .) just haven't produced all that much.  Same with the LBs.  Sure injuries at that position have hurt, but only Mayo (the first rounder) seems to be a sure starter. 

    Believe me, I think trading down is a good strategy some of the time.  But it's got to be balanced. Sometimes you need to go for talent.  The Pats seem to always go for so-called "value" in both the draft and free agency. Sometimes these value move work brilliantly (Vollmer, Moss, etc.).  But I'm afraid the overall quality of the team's talent is starting to decline because we're just too value-focused to recognize the importance of getting top guys at a few key positions.  


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninsatx. Show patsfaninsatx's posts

    Re: Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks

    In Response to Re: Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks:
    In Response to Re: Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks : Yeah . . . the pass rush is key to better pass defense.  But the funny thing is the other positions where we keep trading down for quantity and "value" are DL and LB.  In recent years, we've drafted a lot of those guys too with low-round picks.  And we're not getting better at those positions either.  Over the past few years, the talent on our D-Line has come with the high picks: Seymour, Wilfork, Warren.  The other guys (Hill, Brace, Smith, etc . . .) just haven't produced all that much.  Same with the LBs.  Sure injuries at that position have hurt, but only Mayo (the first rounder) seems to be a sure starter.  Believe me, I think trading down is a good strategy some of the time.  But it's got to be balanced. Sometimes you need to go for talent.  The Pats seem to always go for so-called "value" in both the draft and free agency. Sometimes these value move work brilliantly (Vollmer, Moss, etc.).  But I'm afraid the overall quality of the team's talent is starting to decline because we're just too value-focused to recognize the importance of getting top guys at a few key positions.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid


    great points^^^^^^
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonBobBlowhard. Show BostonBobBlowhard's posts

    Re: Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks

    In Response to Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks: This is an exceptional post. The Jets moved way up to get Revis. Their team defense and all of Ryan's brilliant schemes would have been paper mache without him. Then they add Cromartie. The Pats seem to be forcing the issue, hoping many DB picks will result in one or two of them "hitting." Maybe trade up and get the guy you are really confident in, not multiple reaches hoping one or two hit? Surgical striking versus the numbers game?

    I've been saying all along that CB was a big need for the Pats, so I'm not disappointed they took a CB in the first round.  But I have to admit the pick bothers me--not because they made it this year, but because they keep making it every year and yet the secondary never improves.  It seems like every draft the Pats keep trading down to get more picks to spend on DBs.  Sadly, most of these DBs turn out to be busts.  We have a team that's been loaded up with corners and safeties, most of whom are at best nickel or dime backs, and many of whom aren't even on the team after a year or two. Despite all these DBs we take in the draft, our secondary gets burned regularly.  And because we keep trading away high picks to get more quantity and "value" in the defensive backfield, other critical parts of the team--like OLB and WR--are ignored.   I'm hoping McCourty turns out to be the answer opposite Bodden.  As I've been saying all week, I think CB is one of our highest needs.  But given how many corners and safeties we've drafted over the past few years, DB shouldn't be a need at all.  If McCourty turns out to be a bust (and worse if Kyle Wilson turns out to be a stud), this draft will have been a disaster.  If McCourty turns out to be the shut down corner we so desperately need, then all is forgiven . . . But I just can't help wondering if we're really getting value for all the lower round picks BB stockpiles?  Why not once in a while go for a sure bet in the first round--even if it means, god forbid, trading up?  After all, if you look at a list of pro bowl players, the vast majority were first round picks.  A decent number were second round picks.  But once you're past the second round the odds of getting pro bowl quality talent drop precipitously.  Sometimes you need to fill roster spots. Sometimes you need talent.  Right now, I think the Pats need talent.  I hope McCourty turns out to be talent.  And I hope in the second round there's still talent at WR and OLB and several other positions where the Pats are weak. The Pats desperately need talent out of this draft.  I guess we'll have to wait and see what BB gives us . . . 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks

    In Response to Re: Pat's Secondary is a Hole in the Water Into Which You Pour Draft Picks:
    In todays pass happy NFL, you cant have enough of quality cornerbacks. Toughest position on defense in the NFL. Not many bombs thrown in a game today, I bet 10-20% completed, but I bet 50% or more Pass interfernce is called, especially Home Games. Guys like Wilhite, will be long gone this time next year. I still have the taped game in Houston, and I cannot belive this guy was on an NFL roster.
    Posted by bobbysu

    Totally agree with the need for quality DBs, but the problem is we're spending a lot of draft picks on guys like Wilhite who aren't quality DBs.  McCourty I hope turns out to be what we need.  But I wonder about all the draft picks we've wasted on the Wheatleys and Wilhites . . . BB keeps trading down for value, but I'd rather have one guy who can play football than 50 guys who end up driving beer trucks. 

     

Share