Re: Pats shot themselves in the foot waiting with the tag again?
posted at 3/14/2012 10:49 AM EDT
In Response to Re: Pats shot themselves in the foot waiting with the tag again?
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pats shot themselves in the foot waiting with the tag again? : Rusty when I say you are big into overpaying I didn't mean you want to overpay I meant you were big into the concept (pro or con) of overpaying (you obviously being con). With Wilfork they could have gotten a deal done prior to the year they tagged him. They had the cap space but the market had increased in demand for NT's so the price went higher. So they tagged and waited the market out. Well it turns out that the next year even larger contracts were given out to DT/NT's. In the end not extending Wilfork before they needed to apply the tag cost them more then if they simply extended Wilfork. With Mankins, during his RFA period the average top salary for a G was $5-6mil after the RFA and tag period that jumped to $6.5-7.5mil. Again a perfect case in which if they thought of him as a long term option that getting a deal done earlier knowing the uncapped year was coming would have saved them cash in the end. That's twice they've taken this approach and both times it ended up costing them more cap space then if they took care of the dealer earlier. They should have learned from those experiences with Welker and took the golden opportunity that presented itself after the lockout. Instead they took the same approach and it appears that it will produce the same result. Come to think of it with the Branch situation many people point to if in 06' the Pats had Branch instead of Caldwell they could have won that SB. So, yet again using this tactic with the tag cost them in the end. I don't think you spend all out but also giving a market deal at that time will save you long term then trying to hold out for another year or two down the road. If it's one thing that's certain is market value raises every year so how do you think pushing off extending a player 2 years down the road if you want them long term is going to make it a more favorable deal for you in the end?
Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
I think they intentionally allow the market to be set like that to use it as leverage in negotiations. I know that sounds odd, but they may do that in certain spots because they can point to flawed reasoning in the market, etc. I;d say they lost in the Mankins case because it's too high like Evans's, but at some point you can't control brainwashed players like Mankins. Once the agent has control of the player, it's pretty much over. I am annoyed that the spoiled kid got the cookie, but whatever. It's over.
That gives them a starting point to use v.s. just wildly ballparking or underquoting the player and turning it ugly. I think they feel they can still negotiate it down to more of a ballpark price where they can budget around it.
I kept saying that Jhari Evans isn't the market when NOs stupidly signed him to a bloated deal. Same thing with Ferguson with the Jets. We paid Matt Light 8 mil per, 2 mil less than Ferguson, even though Matt Light is clearly superior to that of Ferguson.
So, I think it just depends. I think if they know they have an under market deal and the player signs it, they obviously jump on it. But, if they get into a greedy situation like they did with Mankins and his agent, they do lose some leverage just like any team would.
Again, I would have called Mankie's bluff and dealt his rump to some crapy team like Oakland, preferably for a 1st. But, they love the guy, so whatever. Personally, I don't get it. Mankins is like Seymour. Overachieved around great company around him (LIght is underrated) and then uses that to get a major deal, only to underperform after the deal.
Finally, again, there is no way on earth you can be this critical with saying things "they should have learned" when you're talking about BB, the guy who invented this game of economic cat and mouse. There is no one better at this than BB. Not even close really. I said this years ago when people were raving about Poilan, when I'd point that BB is better because he uses the draft and FA in conjunction with one another, which creates more leverage than if you didn't.
Pittsburgh is good at this, but now we'll see how they get out of their mess.
It sounds pretty foolish knowing you had Wilfork, Brady, Mankins, Light, Mayo, etc, to sign going into a lockout and then whining about BB keeping these guys fairly and squarely. Come on. This is ridiculous. Going into a lockout, you're better off locking those guys down and showing good faith. The players had really good leverage there even if it was a lockout, because they were going to use that lockout to get what they wanted. Stinks, but Brady had to get paid, as did Wilfork.
The only thing I disagree with is Mankins, but I get it. They like knowing they have security blanket and they cross it off the list. Mankins's agent knew a team like the Saints would hand out an overpaid contract to a Guard (Evans in NOs) likely due to the overrated concept that "Guards are more valuable now" due it being a passing league and Steve Hutshinson's deal, so Mankins was going to the wall, the entire time.
They probably offered him many deals that were in and around (actually they did and he rejected at least 2 deals) the Evans eventual number, but Evans just beat Mankins to the punch. Remember? Evveryone got angry because Evans's deal from the Saints quickly was announced, but that was actually irresponsible by the Saints at the time. Said it then, say it now. Now look at the Saints. Yep.
I can't blame BB for that. No way. Ironic NOs now has no 1st rd pick, likely less picks in the future, Brees is incensed and Meachem just left, isn't it?
Funny how all these trendy loveable teams like GB, NOs, the Giants, etc, are all going to fade away at some point down the line because they slip up just once or twice in making the right decision. GB just signed Finley to a huge deal, but maybe that was a mistake? I would have just promoted Quarless and let Finley walk. Good player, but he drops the ball a lot. It could be a mistake just like letting Jenkins, Poppinga, Barnett and Bigby walk, was a mistake for their D last year.
That's not happening here mainly because BB covers himself with the draft picks.