Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    Agree
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    The strategy is sound, but I don't know that I would hold my breath for very long waiting for a #1 pick for this guy.



     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    I think we can get a 2nd rder, not a 1st for him.  The contract he wants makes him lose value in a trade.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZigZig. Show ZigZig's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    TexasPat3 your coment is retarted, DO U REMEBER Mr. Asante COST US THE SB. WITH THE DroPED INT, WE WOULD HAVE WON THE GAME WITH THAT INT, THE GUY STINKS. WITH NO PASS RUSH AT ALL, U CAN HAVE 10 TY LAWY'S OUT AND IT STILL WONT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. And has far as makins go's, they should trade him, he's very replaceable, i'm not impressed with him at all. Get rid of him 4 a 7th rounder,  Don't pay him nothing.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from N464Mex-N460A. Show N464Mex-N460A's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    they also went 18-1 after making that deal with asante
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtics12345. Show Celtics12345's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    In Response to Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins:
         If they are patient, Mankins will either return to the bargaining table with a more reasonable attitude, or they'll be able to trade him for a 2011 #1 draft choice .       What the Pats should NOT do, under any circumstances, is to repeat the mistake they made with Asante Samuel...when they signed him to a one year deal, and promised not to franchise him. It was one of the worst personnel decisions that BB has ever made. The Pats should have either paid him out of need, or let him sit, until he could be traded for a high draft choice. In doing what they did, they denied themselves a chance to receive adequate compensation for Asante, and left themselves a huge hole in the secondary, since 2008.        Let Mankins sit and stew.         
    Posted by TexasPat3

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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    Wow that guy really likes you.

    I say if they can get a #2 for mankins now then the deal should be done already. Can't think of too many #1's traded for guards. Also I'm not sure even a #2 will be so easy, almost rather get a young linemen with promise and a  3rd or 4rth back. Get it done before we have to hear about it all through preseason.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    In Response to Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins:
    Wow that guy really likes you. I say if they can get a #2 for mankins now then the deal should be done already. Can't think of too many #1's traded for guards. Also I'm not sure even a #2 will be so easy, almost rather get a young linemen with promise and a  3rd or 4rth back. Get it done before we have to hear about it all through preseason.
    Posted by TrueChamp


         If the Pats are patient enough, some team will cough up a first round pick. Besides, if the Pats settle for less, they will be encouraging other players to pull the same BS than Mankins is pulling.

         Let him sit and stew
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    If we let Asante sit out, our CBs would have been Ellis Hobbs, Randall Gay and ... Antwan Spain????  The 2007 team was built to win now - Bruschi, Seau, Rodney, Vrabel were all on their last legs.  Getting a year out of the best gambling CB in the game was the right move. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    This is the what I like about the NFL. The team still has some power when it comes to this stuff. You can't let players shoot their way out of town because if you let one do it the rest will try. I still remember Terry Glenn and Ty Law trying to pull this CR@P and I was elated that Bellichick just blew off all the talk in the media and did the right thing. As far as Mankins goes, he's good but he's replaceable. Couldn't agree more with your take and I would assume that the Pats will travel that road.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    In Response to Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins:
    In Response to Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins :      If the Pats are patient enough, some team will cough up a first round pick. Besides, if the Pats settle for less, they will be encouraging other players to pull the same BS than Mankins is pulling.      Let him sit and stew
    Posted by TexasPat3


    I see your point but at the same time Mankins did fulfill his contract of 5 years. He just has the unfortunate luck to be one of the collective bargaining agreement casualties of 2010. He would not be in this situation in any other year. Point being this particular situation is not likely to come up again. I think the Pats have shown throughout the years that they have been excellent in getting top value for players who either A: don't have much gas left in the tank(Seymour 1st rd trade, Vrabel, Milloy, Law, and best example Drew Bledsoe 1st rd trade in division) or B: players who think they are worth more then the team does (Deon Branch 1st rd trade, Givens etc.)

     In Mankins we have a guard. Yes he has been an important and talented guard but he is not a skill position player and his impact will not be seen as most other positions. I just think we have to temper our expectations for what his value is in terms of trade bait.

    Hope we get a 1st but Id be ecstatic getting a 2nd for a player who is technically not under contract.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    I'd just leave the 7 million dollar offer on the table and say "Logan this is our only and final offer from us". If he signs it he signs it, but I'd also look for any trade partners and try to be proactive. I'd say a 1st or early 2nd would be a good move on the Pats part. Last thing you want is to lose a player and not get anything in return.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    In Response to Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins:
    In Response to Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins : He would not be in this situation in any other year. Point being this particular situation is not likely to come up again.
     
    RESPONSE: No sympathy from me on this. The Pats appear to have made him a reasonable offer (5 years, $35mil.). Is it Bob Kraft's fault that the New Orleans Saints chose to overpay OG Jahri Evans? 

    ...the Pats have shown throughout the years that they have been excellent in getting top value for players who either A: don't have much gas left in the tank(Seymour 1st rd trade, Vrabel, Milloy, Law, and best example Drew Bledsoe 1st rd trade in division) or B: players who think they are worth more then the team does (Deon Branch 1st rd trade, Givens etc.)
     
    RESPONSE: Agreed. So why not be patient and get adequate compensation for Mankins? If the Pats "give" him away, aren't they letting Mankins and his agent dictate terms? If they do...that sets a very bad precedent for future player negotiations...and other players will adopt the "Mankins strategy".

    In Mankins we have a guard.

    RESPONSE: a pro-bowl caliber guard.  

    Yes he has been an important and talented guard but he is not a skill position player and his impact will not be seen as most other positions.
     
    RESPONSE: Apparently, the New Orleans Saints did not feel this way, considering what they paid to keep Evans. The Minnesota Vikings paid a kings' ransom (& years, $49mil.) to snare Steve Hutchinson.

    I just think we have to temper our expectations for what his value is in terms of trade bait. Hope we get a 1st but Id be ecstatic getting a 2nd for a player who is technically not under contract.

    I respectfully, yet strongly, disagree: http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/Trading_Logan
    _Mankins_What_Should_We_Get_In_Return/2747713


    Posted by TrueChamp

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    Good stuff Tex, it is a delicate situation. I wouldn't want the Pats to give the image that they are soft and I don't think that will happen given our history with standing our ground. He has blatantly rejected what seems like a fair offer. With that said he is not under contract. Lets get what we can for him as to avoid "Locker room distraction" We just got rid of a cancerous Adalius Thomas. Everyone seems to agree lack of focus and leadership in locker room was our main weakness last year. We have done right by Wilfork, Bodden, TBC, Burgess, Guyton, Faulk, and even Mankins was offered 35 mil.


    IMO better to start training camp with guys that are focused on winning a championship this year and want to be here. If that means getting a 2nd over a 1st to avoid the dreaded "distraction" questions from the media then lets do it and move on.

    Just to clarify, I think we could maybe get more for him if we "let him sit and stew" but we are good enough to win this year. Brady's window is still open. Lets start training camp with "The right guys on the bus" mentality and win the super bowl this year.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    Truechamp's got this right.  CBA is what is causing this problem, and frankly, the team knew it would and took advantage of it.

    TP is possibly wrong.  5 and 35 mean nothing until the structure of the deal is known.  Patience is not a good thing now.  At the time, Brady was young and the pats knew they had the horses to be able to be tough on a single player.  Brady is significantly older, has been injured, is spending less time with the team, and the personnel is not as good as it was.  If the pats want to win, they have limited time in which to do it. 

    Further, right or wrong, TP has bemoaned the play of the o-line, but most think Mankins is not the problem.  Take him out of the mix and doesn't the problem get that much worse?  If Brady was hurried last year, without Mankins, won't he be a sacrificial lamb this year?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    Also in response to the article I think Arthiel Barker is being pretty optimistic with a "First and a third" expectation. In the day and age where perrenial pro bowl caliber skill position players like Brandon Marshall, Randy Moss, Wes Welker get traded for 2nd/ FOURTH HAHAHA/ and 2nd round picks then I don't see it as a possibility.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    In Response to Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins:
    Truechamp's got this right.  CBA is what is causing this problem, and frankly, the team knew it would and took advantage of it. TP is possibly wrong.  5 and 35 mean nothing until the structure of the deal is known.  Patience is not a good thing now.  At the time, Brady was young and the pats knew they had the horses to be able to be tough on a single player.  Brady is significantly older, has been injured, is spending less time with the team, and the personnel is not as good as it was.  If the pats want to win, they have limited time in which to do it.  Further, right or wrong, TP has bemoaned the play of the o-line, but most think Mankins is not the problem.  Take him out of the mix and doesn't the problem get that much worse?  If Brady was hurried last year, without Mankins, won't he be a sacrificial lamb this year?
    Posted by underdoggggg


    Underdog I will give you one thing. You have to be a dedicated individual to spend as much time as you do on another teams forum to constantly try and stir the pot. You make it clear that the Patriots have hurt you in a very bad way with your feeble attempts to get under fans skins.

    With that being said I have a lot of time on my hands so....I would say the window for Peyton is closing a lot faster then it is for Tom. Peyton has been lucky enough to only have played Brady and the Patriots once in the playoffs for the last 5 years, yet he has only won one superbowl, which was really awarded to him by some widely noted "questionable officiating(06 afc). Last year Peyton was once again lucky enough get by Brady's Patriots again and still coughed up the Superbowl on his own choke job. I would be very nervous if I were a Colts fan as when Peyton is gone you they will have no hope left at all.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrbungle. Show mrbungle's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    BB learns from mistakes (Samuel) and will make sit on Mankins. Meanwhile, BB has the luxury (of sorts) to see who steps up to take LM's place and watch the injury reports around the league. Sooner or later a call will come and the price (pick) will be higher. BB will take what he gets for a pick(s) and flip them for more. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    Wouldn't you rather have players than picks?

    TC - why is Manning's window closing faster than Brady?
    How are the colts lucky to have faced the pats in the po once in the last 5 years?  In the last 5 years, the colts have beaten the pats 5 times.  Twice in NE. And in the last 5 years the colts have been to 2 sbs and won 1.  the pats  - 1 and lost it.  I am not sure I follow your logic.  

    I agree when Manning is gone, the colts may be doomed.  I'll enjoy it while I can.  When that happens, you can rest assured that the pats will be better, as they proved without brady all that is needed for them to win is a system QB.    
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    In Response to Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins:
    Wouldn't you rather have players than picks? TC - why is Manning's window closing faster than Brady? How are the colts lucky to have faced the pats in the po once in the last 5 years?  In the last 5 years, the colts have beaten the pats 5 times.  Twice in NE. And in the last 5 years the colts have been to 2 sbs and won 1.  the pats  - 1 and lost it.  I am not sure I follow your logic.   I agree when Manning is gone, the colts may be doomed.  I'll enjoy it while I can.  When that happens, you can rest assured that the pats will be better, as they proved without brady all that is needed for them to win is a system QB.    
    Posted by underdoggggg


    Lucky in the aspect that the last 2 years the patriots have played without a 100% Tom Brady. The Colts have won a few regular season game against the Pats(finally) but the playoffs are a different story. BTW if it wasn't for the greatest come bAck in afc history Brady would have beaten the Colts again with Reche Caldwell as his #1 wr. Wonder how far Peyton gets with Reche Caldwell as his #1?

    Your point of only needing a system qb has zero validity. 99 % of the Qbs in the league could have scraped out 11 wins with Moss, Welker and one of the easiest schedules in the free agency era. Brady probably would have gone undefeated again.

    I have a feeling you haven't enjoyed the Colts run that much. You probably have nightmares about the Pats. Even with your recent regular season success.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsDK. Show PatsDK's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    Sour grapes U-dog???
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    In Response to Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins:
    In Response to Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins : Lucky in the aspect that the last 2 years the patriots have played without a 100% Tom Brady. The Colts have won a few regular season game against the Pats(finally) but the playoffs are a different story. BTW if it wasn't for the greatest come bAck in afc history Brady would have beaten the Colts again with Reche Caldwell as his #1 wr. Wonder how far Peyton gets with Reche Caldwell as his #1? Your point of only needing a system qb has zero validity. 99 % of the Qbs in the league could have scraped out 11 wins with Moss, Welker and one of the easiest schedules in the free agency era. Brady probably would have gone undefeated again. I have a feeling you haven't enjoyed the Colts run that much. You probably have nightmares about the Pats. Even with your recent regular season success.
    Posted by TrueChamp


    But everybody said in Feb of last year that Brady would be 100% for the start of the season.  Its amazing how much backtracking has taken place since he didn't live up to the hype. 

    Great QB's make great comebacks - That's Manning. 

    As for Brady's receivers, he had:  2 first rdrs; 2 second rdrs; 1 5th and 1 8th.  Last year: Manning's primary receivers were 2 1st; 1 4th (rook); 1 6th (2nd yr - 4 total catches).  Sounds like Brady had a good enough crew. 

    You can speculate what could have been in 08 all you like, but its about as valid as my claim that I can dig a hole to China. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    In Response to Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins:
    In Response to Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins : But everybody said in Feb of last year that Brady would be 100% for the start of the season.  Its amazing how much backtracking has taken place since he didn't live up to the hype.  Great QB's make great comebacks - That's Manning.  As for Brady's receivers, he had:  2 first rdrs; 2 second rdrs; 1 5th and 1 8th.  Last year: Manning's primary receivers were 2 1st; 1 4th (rook); 1 6th (2nd yr - 4 total catches).  Sounds like Brady had a good enough crew.  You can speculate what could have been in 08 all you like, but its about as valid as my claim that I can dig a hole to China. 
    Posted by underdoggggg


    Good one bud. Im sure everybody was positive Brady would be fine year 1 of the worst knee injury a player can have.

    Didn't live up to the hype? This doesn't deserve a response.

    Brady's receivers?? 2 firsts 2 2nds. What?

    Moss 1st rd pick Brady has had him for 2 years and thrown him 39 tds in that time.

    Welker undrafted free agent Brady has thrown him over 230 completions in 2 seasons.

    Branch 2nd rd Brady made him a superbowl mvp

    Givens 7th rd Brady threw this guy an nfl record 30 something straight 1st down completions.

    Troy Brown 7th rd Brady threw him over 100 completions in 1 season.

    Lets look at Peytons toys

    Marvin harrison 1st rd pick

    Reggie Wayne 1st rd pick

    Dallas Clark 1st rd pick

    Edgerin james 1st rd pick

    Joseph Addai 1st rd pick

    Donald Brown 1st rd pick.....See a pattern here?????????

    So which QB (who plays in a domed stadium for 10 games a year) has had a more talented group of offensive weapons?

    LOL Im glad you brought this up underdogged. This was fun.

    Good Talk.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    Avoiding at all costs any reference to any other poster on this thread simply because I'd like to keep it about the original assertion, BB and the Pats should indeed let Mankins sit and stew.  I doubt they'll get a first rounder for him and I think they would be doing well to get a second for him but stranger things have happened.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins

    In Response to Re: Pats Should Hold Their Ground on Mankins:
    CBA is what is causing this problem, and frankly, the team knew it would and took advantage of it.

    RESPONSE: There you go trolling again. All teams have "taken advantage" of this, including your sainted ponies. 

    TP is possibly wrong.  5 and 35 mean nothing until the structure of the deal is known.

    RESPONSE: Come now, Dog(gggg). As I have mentioned in several previous posts to you, don't you think that if guaranteed money was way out of wack, that the Mankins' camp would mention it to turn public opinion their way?

    Patience is not a good thing now.

    RESPONSE: Rubbish. It is necessary in order to either bring Mankins into line, or to get maximum value for him through a trade.

    At the time, Brady was young and the pats knew they had the horses to be able to be tough on a single player.  Brady is significantly older, has been injured, is spending less time with the team, and the personnel is not as good as it was.  If the pats want to win, they have limited time in which to do it.  Further, right or wrong, TP has bemoaned the play of the o-line, but most think Mankins is not the problem.  Take him out of the mix and doesn't the problem get that much worse?

    RESPONSE: More rubbish. If Mankins played OT, it would be more serious. But, he's a guard...which a relatively easy position to replace. Mankins simply isn't worth what he's asking...and isn't irreplacable. The emergence of OT Sebastien Vollmer will lessen the impact...should the Pats lose Mankins...as either Nick Kaczur or Dan Connolly will be moved to LG. The Colts and the Patriots have both gotten by quite nicely for years with free agents, and relatively low round draft picks, playing on the OL. 

    If Brady was hurried last year, without Mankins, won't he be a sacrificial lamb this year?

    RESPONSE: Not as long as the Pats' OTs hold up. But, so nice of you to express such sincere concern...LOL!!!

    Posted by underdoggggg

     

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