PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from LB34. Show LB34's posts

    Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

    Now that each side has had time to kiss and make up, it makes a lot of sense for both sides to come to an agreement.  Mantown is tough, nasty, and very good at what he does.  That said, the Pats have proven they can win without him.  So unless some other team decides he should be the highest paid guard on the planet, both sides should settle at an amount consistent with the average salary of the top 5 guards in the league over 5 years.

    NO MORE DRAMA, JUST SIGN the damn thing and lets win another SB!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

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    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]Give him hookers and Pudding.
    Posted by Tcal2[/QUOTE]

    How can you have any pudding when you haven't eaten your meat?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 4Adam13. Show 4Adam13's posts

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    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]Listen jerk off.I probably know more about the HISTORY than u do without posting someone elses article.My point was they are a better team with him so now that bygones are bygones,PAY THE MAN.Or would u rather he walk to the Jets because he personally hurt your feelings when he rejected the offer.....Hate tools like you!!!!!!!!!!!   Maybe whatever he wants was a lil dramatic but most people will understand the intent!
    Posted by leatherhelmet[/QUOTE]

    Ok. So the Pats get beaten like red headed step children by the Clowns and dominate the Steelers. Since those are the only two games Mankins has played, they pretty much cancel out each other.

    How bout we see how Mankins does over the next few weeks before we over pay for a player.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriots44. Show patriots44's posts

    Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

    Mankins looked great against Cleveland
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from donspartucus. Show donspartucus's posts

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    In Response to PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]Going to keep this short and sweet.......Brady looks more comfortable and confident with Logan Mankins in there protecting the rush up the middle... PAY MANKINS  WHATEVER HE WANTS..We are a much better offense with him in there.... PERIOD!!!!!!
    Posted by leatherhelmet[/QUOTE]

    Also Logan was the only one to stick up for his QB after a QB sneak for a TD. Polumalu was taking some cheat shots at Brady and Mankins flew right in there. Way to go Logan my kind of player!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from norichcrybabies. Show norichcrybabies's posts

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    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]Are we sure that money is what Mankins wants? Why would he turn down the lucrative offer the Pats laid out, unless it was too backloaded? And while we're wondering, how come -- if Mankins is such a principled individual that the Pats "breaking their word" outweighs top-end money -- then why did he report back to the team earlier than was required to fulfill his year-in-service obligation?   I'll freely admit have no idea what might be going on inside Mankins' head.

    My Guess?  Insurance in case he get's hurt (can't believe they wouldn't let me say ba-nged up) and can't play for a couple games.  Not sure how that would work out for games played.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from qball369. Show qball369's posts

    Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

    Funny that I missed all this talk about electing Mankins governor of Massachusetts and paying him like the Sultan of Oman after last weeks game

    I don't seem to recall that the OLINE has been the Pats problem this year - the Pats were 5-2 without Mankins, Brady's jersey was staying clean, and the Pats led the league in points scored

    Mankins is a good player - but you don't break the bank for guards in the NFL if you are going to compete year in, year out - they made him a very fair offer - he turned it down and called the owner a liar - he's only playing now to secure his right to leave at seasons end - are we all really sure that him sticking up for Brady last night wasn't just a PR stunt to rebuild his image/worth?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from james32. Show james32's posts

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    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!! : Also Logan was the only one to stick up for his QB after a QB sneak for a TD. Polumalu was taking some cheat shots at Brady and Mankins flew right in there. Way to go Logan my kind of player!
    Posted by donspartucus[/QUOTE]

    This is what I was going to write,Logan proved alot taking up for Brady.I hope they can find a way to keep him.Drafting another guard is no sure thing, Logan has already proven he's a great guard.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

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    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]Listen jerk off.I probably know more about the HISTORY than u do without posting someone elses article.My point was they are a better team with him so now that bygones are bygones,PAY THE MAN.Or would u rather he walk to the Jets because he personally hurt your feelings when he rejected the offer.....Hate tools like you!!!!!!!!!!!   Maybe whatever he wants was a lil dramatic but most people will understand the intent!
    Posted by leatherhelmet[/QUOTE]

    Pssst...Ever hear of the salary cap? Fat lot of good signing him will do when the team can't afford anyone else but him and Brady.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mojobag101. Show mojobag101's posts

    Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!! : Ok. So the Pats get beaten like red headed step children by the Clowns and dominate the Steelers. Since those are the only two games Mankins has played, they pretty much cancel out each other. How bout we see how Mankins does over the next few weeks before we over pay for a player.
    Posted by 4Adam13[/QUOTE]

    2 games????...this is about a player who stepped in as a rookie and only a contract has kept him out.......someone really needs a HISTORY lesson when it comes to MANkins.  P.s. He's still rusty and will only improve along with the play of the O line....this was the Steelers D we dominated no small feat...and these arent your old Cleveland Browns whom this Pats team MAYBE overlooked while looking ahead to the Steelers!!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bspikes55. Show Bspikes55's posts

    Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

    No guys we have Dan Connely dont worry= wait he cant hold a candle to mankins.

    I dont care what we have to pay he is the best guard in football, if you noticed all of the big runs bjge had they were behind that man.he still fairly young he is tough is his protection of brady, during and after the play. I mean hes the best guard in football. SIGN HIM!!!!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

    $7MM+ for a Guard is a lot of money.  That is more than most LTs make.  Mankins wasn't the only one in there blocking.  There were 4 other guys and I noticed Crumpler in there a lot next to Light helping out on Harrison.

    The Pats will not over pay a player.  They made an offer that would have made Mankins the 3rd highest paid OG.  It wasn't enough.  That said, hopefully the two sides can find some middle ground because I agree, keeping him would be great and it would allow us to draft other positions because Light is a free agent after this season and Neal is likely to retire soon.  Koppen and Kaz are also over 30 so we do need some more youth besides Vollmer and Connolly.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from R3S1N20. Show R3S1N20's posts

    Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

    We can always franchise him after the season anyways if they cant agree on a contract before then. by the way, whats the money number on a franchise guard???
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

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    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]7 million per year for 5 years was rejected by Mankins this summer. They tried, he feels he is worth more.  Please know the history of the situation before acting like they didn't pay him. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/03/logan-mankins-doesnt-know-if-he-did-the-right-thing/
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    Russ, it's amazing how much faith you put in a story reported by Albert Breer. Even if Breer was right (not something I'd bet money on) and the contract did add up to $35 million over five years, Breer was unable to say how much of the money was guaranteed or what the timing of payments was. And until you know how much money is guaranteed, you really can't judge whether the contract was good or not. I suspect the Pats can work something out with Mankins--and probably for around $7 million a year--it's just that the guaranteed portion of the deal will need to be good enough to give Mankins some assurance he'll actually get the money. I suspect the whole dispute revolved around a deal that didn't provide enough guarantees and therefore was heavily discounted by Mankins and his agent. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

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    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]They have 2 1st rd picks.  They could just get the best Guard in the draft and still go after a DE/OLB edge player. I don't know. 7 million is more than generous.  I think this is a classic case where if they put the deal back on the table, it'll be the highest offer he sees in 2011.  They won't need to up the offer if they choose to re-offer it to him. Just my .02.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    Again, you don't know the details of the contract so you don't know if it was good or bad.  You're talking out your hindquarters till you know the actual details!!!!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TroyBrown80. Show TroyBrown80's posts

    Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

    Hey, number one, this team may not be where he wants to be anymore.  Number two, we don't overpay.  Period.  If they thought he was worth more, they would have negotiated that.  It's not going to happen, and him holding out for a third of the season sure didn't help anyway.  Nice that he is back, and playing, but the team AS ALWAYS will do what they think is right.  Pretty hard to argue with that so far, for me.  I'm thinking a decade of dominance is pretty good results.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RahZid. Show RahZid's posts

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    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]We can always franchise him after the season anyways if they cant agree on a contract before then. by the way, whats the money number on a franchise guard???
    Posted by R3S1N20[/QUOTE]

    While I appreciate the attempt at humor, Tackles and guards are grouped together for franchise tag numbers, so it's higher than the average of the top 5 guards.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hang3xc. Show hang3xc's posts

    Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

    Typical over reaction to a great game. Nobody was crying to crown Mankins the king of all football last week. They went 6 & 1 without him, 1 & 1 with him. They can definitely win WITHOUT him. They need to pay a whole team & the salary cap limits how much can be spent. You can't give it all to a few guys. There are a few other positions WAY more important than guard, THEY get the BIG bucks.
    He's a great guard, but BB will decide exactly how much he is worth, taking EVERYTHING into account, and they won't offer him a dime more than that. Take it or leave it. BB does not over pay. Sometimes it hurts. I hope we can keep him, but it is NOT the end of the world if we can't.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RahZid. Show RahZid's posts

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    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!! : Russ, it's amazing how much faith you put in a story reported by  Albert Breer.  Even if Breer was right (not something I'd bet money on) and the contract did add up to $35 million over five years, Breer was unable to say how much of the money was guaranteed or what the timing of payments was. And until you know how much money is guaranteed, you really can't judge whether the contract was good or not. I suspect the Pats can work something out with Mankins--and probably for around $7 million a year--it's just that the guaranteed portion of the deal will need to be good enough to give Mankins some assurance he'll actually get the money. I suspect the whole dispute revolved around a deal that didn't provide enough guarantees and therefore was heavily discounted by Mankins and his agent. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Timing of the payments is fairly straight forward based on what he made last year using the 110% rule (A player can not make more than 110% more than in the previous year in salary).    So yes, the contract was probably back loaded, but that's how the NFL works.  The only real question is how much of the guaranteed money was in roster bonuses later on.

    As for the question about there not being enough guarantees, the difference between the reported $35M and the numbers from the 110% rule give you a good estimate for how big the bonus money was.  The main issue Mankins' camp may have had with this is that the money can only be guaranteed against either injury or performance, not both.  This is because of the uncapped year and held up many other contracts this season as well.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

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    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!! : Timing of the payments is fairly straight forward based on what he made last year using the 110% rule (A player can not make more than 110% more than in the previous year in salary).    
    Posted by RahZid[/QUOTE]

    There is no rule that limits a player's salary to 110% of his previous year's salary.  The 110% rule is simply the minimum increase in a free agent tender. It has nothing to do with the rate of increase in pay under a regular contract.

    Anyone who really wants to understand the rules can read the collective bargaining agreement here:




     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

    For all those who call Mankins things like "dumb" or "a bi-polar neanderthal" without knowing the details of the contract, consider the following two contracts. 

    Contract A:  $15 million signing bonus (guaranteed) plus $4 million per year (not guaranteed) for five years.

    Contract B: No signing bonus, payments over five years, starting at $5 million in the first year and increasing by $1 million per year to $9 million in year five (nothing guaranteed).

    Both contracts are $35 million over five years (averaging to $7 million a year).  One is a great contract, the other a poor one.  I don't know what Mankins was offered (probably something in-between the two extremes above), but before we toss insults at him, we need to understand the actual terms of the deal.

    A player who signs contract A gets $15 million in his pocket right away no matter what.  A player who signs contract B could be cut mid season in the first year and end up with just $2.5 million.  There's a huge difference there.  But both contracts are $35 million over 5 years.  So without details, everything people are claiming about Mankins is just a bunch of effluvia from a horse's backside.


    One other point: if you were a restricted free agent who was offered something like Contract B by your current team and felt you could get something more like contract A next year from another team, you would be smart not to lock yourself into Contract B for five years and instead refuse to sign that contract and wait till next year to sign contact A with the other team. This is what Mankins did. If Mankins made a possible mistake, it was not signing the $3.26 million tender--though not signing that tender was his only available negotiating ploy under the CBA and so I understand why he made that decision.  He was hoping the Pats would come back to the table with a better offer if he didn't sign.  When the Pats called his bluff and didn't offer anything better, Mankins was pretty much stuck with playing for a reduced amount this season or holding out.   I see why he held out. He lost a relatively small amount of money by football-player standards (roughly half of the $1.54 million second reduced tender) and had a nice fall vacation and still has a chance to play in a super bowl.  It's not as dumb as some think.
      
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!! : Russ, it's amazing how much faith you put in a story reported by  Albert Breer.  Even if Breer was right (not something I'd bet money on) and the contract did add up to $35 million over five years, Breer was unable to say how much of the money was guaranteed or what the timing of payments was. And until you know how much money is guaranteed, you really can't judge whether the contract was good or not. I suspect the Pats can work something out with Mankins--and probably for around $7 million a year--it's just that the guaranteed portion of the deal will need to be good enough to give Mankins some assurance he'll actually get the money. I suspect the whole dispute revolved around a deal that didn't provide enough guarantees and therefore was heavily discounted by Mankins and his agent. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    I don't think Breer was the source.  It may have been Schefter or Reiss.  It said an NFL source, so it could be one of many people.


    I tend to believe information that is not denied by the party that is the focus and believe the party that doesn't act strangely. 

    Also, if you look at Frank Bauer's actual quotes, he references how it's 20% less than Jahari Evans's deal.

    So, it's clearly a market/money issue.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]For all those who call Mankins things like "dumb" or "a bi-polar neanderthal" without knowing the details of the contract, consider the following two contracts.  Contract A:  $15 million signing bonus (guaranteed) plus $4 million per year (not guaranteed) for five years. Contract B: No signing bonus, payments over five years, starting at $5 million in the first year and increasing by $1 million per year to $9 million in year five (nothing guaranteed). Both contracts are $35 million over five years (averaging to $7 million a year).  One is a great contract, the other a poor one.  I don't know what Mankins was offered (probably something in-between the two extremes above), but before we toss insults at him, we need to understand the actual terms of the deal. A player who signs contract A gets $15 million in his pocket right away no matter what.  A player who signs contract B could be cut mid season in the first year and end up with just $2.5 million.  There's a huge difference there.  But both contracts are $35 million over 5 years.  So without details, everything people are claiming about Mankins is just a bunch of effluvia from a horse's backside. One other point: if you were a restricted free agent who was offered something like Contract B by your current team and felt you could get something more like contract A next year from another team, you would be smart not to lock yourself into Contract B for five years and instead refuse to sign that contract and wait till next year to sign contact A with the other team. This is what Mankins did. If Mankins made a possible mistake, it was not signing the $3.26 million tender--though not signing that tender was his only available negotiating ploy under the CBA and so I understand why he made that decision.  He was hoping the Pats would come back to the table with a better offer if he didn't sign.  When the Pats called his bluff and didn't offer anything better, Mankins was pretty much stuck with playing for a reduced amount this season or holding out.   I see why he held out. He lost a relatively small amount of money by football-player standards (roughly half of the $1.54 million second reduced tender) and had a nice fall vacation and still has a chance to play in a super bowl.  It's not as dumb as some think.   
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]


    Umm, you can stop defending the agent who reps Darelle Revis and quoting me now.

    The guy turned down a guaranteed deal to stay in NE, going into a possible lockout, probably lost the gamble, will likely NOT see Jahari Evans money, etc.

    So, tell us how Frank Bauer did his client a good service here. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

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    In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!! : I don't think Breer was the source.  It may have been Schefter or Reiss.  It said an NFL source, so it could be one of many people. Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    Of course, the link you provided said Breer was the person who reported the deal.  Who Breer got his information from is unknown since I don't believe Breer has ever named his source.  I looked into this a while ago and couldn't find any record of any other reporter (Schecter, Reiss, or otherwise) who reports a number for the Mankins deal without referencing Breer as the source. 

    If you've got other information, please provide it.  Also, if you've got accurate details about the contract, please report them and name your source.  Otherwise, I'm afraid everything you're saying about the deal and about Mankins' intelligence (or lack thereof) is based on no real knowledge at all.  In other words, you are just talking out your backside . . . and you're also slandering a guy who I personally think is a pretty decent human being without any real basis to do so.  

    So, yeah, I'll continue to defend Mankins until you show me some FACTS that support your position.  




     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: PAY THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!

    Right. He reported it. I could find many other links that show the same report. He is not the primary source of the report.

    Mankins slandered Kraft.

    Keep in mind who made this public. 

    Mankins own agent tried to use public comments to initiate a higher deal.

    http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2010/06/14/mankins-was-offered-deal-for-an-average-of-7-million-per-year/

    Reiss hinted at the idea that Mankins was turned off that his deal was 20% less (likely sourced from Bauer's actual comments) and the idea that it came AFTER Evans.

    This was seen as taking too long and therefore being a slap in the face.

    Mind you, Mankins was offered a deal BEFORE TOM BRADY.

    So, you are defending the idea that Mankins felt he deserved a top flight deal before Brady's deal.

    Super.  Good thinking.

    You calling Jonathan Kraft a liar here?

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/02/jonathan-kraft-says-mankins-seriously-misspoke-about-his-dad/

    Here;s Tom Curran, who seems AWFULLY confident that 42 million guaranteed on the table wasn't enough.

    You are essentially challenging every legit secondary source and believing Frank bauer instead. lol.

    None of us need to know the last detail of a contract, but where does Tom Curran get the 42 number from? Out of thin air?

    http://www.necn.com/11/03/10/Mankins-power-play-was-an-epic-failure/landing_sports.html?blockID=344838&feedID=6097

    He rejected a top market deal on the dawn of a lockout.

    Who does that?  Why is that a good move, when it's highly likely the new CBA will have tighter cap rate restrictions, which is essentially WHY the owners oped out of the last CBA they signed off on in 2006.

    Horrendous logic by Bauer.

    It's a gamble he lost.   But, it's a gamble that should have never been taken. In a different environment, Mankins possibly would have gambled correctly.
     

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