peyton manning mvp question

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from N464Mex-N460A. Show N464Mex-N460A's posts

    peyton manning mvp question

    why do i constantly hear that the colts would be nothing without peyton?
    they have lots of good players (just like every good team)
    polian is considered a gm genious. they don't suffer from bad coaching.
    i just don't get it. and i think that whole product-of-a-system talk is just a way of minimizing brady and subsequently the pats success.
    peyton's love affair with the media is similar to barack obamas and farvre (if i here again about his boyish enthusiasm for the game i will pukke)
    it is SO bull

    ps
    i spelled pukke with two ks because boston.com forbade the dirty work pukke
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from LittleTimmy31. Show LittleTimmy31's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    Other players in the league, like the QB from New Orleans or the RB in Tennessee are more deserving for the MVP. We're sick of Manning and his face all over the  tv. Until Manning takes the lucky Colts to another SB victory, he is NOT worthy of the MVP.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from N464Mex-N460A. Show N464Mex-N460A's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    does he not have some of the greatest receivers in the nfl?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tnutts. Show Tnutts's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    He has Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark and 2 rookies. Brady has Moss and Welker. I say advantage Brady. Look the Peyton is a great QB, sure im sick of the commercials. But when its all said and done he will be one of the best to ever play the game. That being said I think the MVP should be Chris Johnson
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    Last year - among the top QB's.

    1.  Manning finished the season with a 9 game win streak. 
    2.  Was 6th in passer rating.  No QB ahead of him had a better record.  3 of the 5 ahead were on teams that did not make the playoffs.  The other 2 were on teams with records of 8-8 and 9-7.  The colts were 12-4
    3.  Manning's #1 rusher had 544 yds rushing for #40 in the league.  As a team, the colts were #31 in rushing offense.
    4.  Marvin Harrison was a shell of his former self in his last year. 

    Last year was an amazing year for manning.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1021us. Show m1021us's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    Last year - among the top QB's.

    1.  Manning finished the season with a 9 game win streak.  Am I missing something?  Indy lost the last 2 games of the season. 


    2.  Was 6th in passer rating.  No QB ahead of him had a better record.  3 of the 5 ahead were on teams that did not make the playoffs.  The other 2 were on teams with records of 8-8 and 9-7.  The colts were 12-4
    SO now winning percentage is now a QB stat?


    3.  Manning's #1 rusher had 544 yds rushing for #40 in the league.  As a team, the colts were #31 in rushing offense.  And? Who was the QB for Tenn?


    4.  Marvin Harrison was a shell of his former self in his last year. ???

    Last year was an amazing year for manning.   He wasn't the best.

    More proof of the Man-love that Pay-A-Ton gets from around the league.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    UD,

    If you just want to count record than I guess he was the MVP but aren't there also divisions?  But by you're standards you're applying for 2008 you would have to say Brees is the MVP this year.  1 less game for the record and statistically better than Manning in almost every passing category also set the record for passer rating.

    In 2008 Rivers team won his division and Mannings couldn't stop the Titans to win thier division.  Rivers had a 105.5 rating, Manning a 95.0.  He threw more TD's and had more yards and had less INT's and threw about 75 less passes. 

    Look at it like this, If Manning put up the same numbers as Brees this year would he have got the MVP.  I would have to say so since his numbers would be better than what he has now and he won the MVP.  Now if you gave Brees Manning's numbers would he have won the MVP.  Ofcourse not, because his numbers would go down.  That's the point, Manning is getting the award off name rocognition and not earning it, much like Favre did 10 years ago.  So if the MVP will go to Manning whether he is the 5th best or first best than can anyone take it seriously?  No, that's why to this day nobody actually thinks Favre is a 3 time MVP guy, it's part of an apparent love affair the media has with whichever QB sells newspapers and Magazines at the time.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    Yes M you are - someone said Manning's mvp in 08 was a joke so I pointed out those stats.  that's last year. 

    As for this year, Manning won 14 games in a row.  Left the game against NYJ with the lead and left the Buffalo game tied. 

    For MVP it is.  How would the team be without the player.  that is the essence of the MVP.  the colts would not be good.  On the other hand, the pats proved last year that they could play without Brady. 

    Last year the QB for Tennessee was Kerry Collins who finished 23rd in QB rating with at an 80. 

    You are entitled to your opinion that Manning wasn't the best but the people who follow the sport as a profession and had a vote gave him 72% of the vote.   
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    Quite honestly UD the people that vote on the award do not have a more valid opinion than you, me, or anyone else.  On a CBS poll the public voted for Favre as MVP which shows that opinions are all over the place.  Many sports writers follow other sports besides NFL football which to me doesn't make them NFL experts.  I'm sure you've read plenty of articles, and noticed writers get more attention for being contrarian and hyperbolic than for having well thought out intelligent commentary.

    As for the how would a team be without a player.  I don't think that is the essence of the award.  It has been argued what the award should be, best player, person most important to a teams success, best player on the best team, etc.  The AP doesn't define the award and it is left up to those who vote on it (and fans) to interpret the meaning of the award.  I think the Colts would be OK without Manning, not as good but still pretty good.  They have Freeney, Clark, Addai, Wayne, Bethea and one of the leagues best defenses.  I don't think that should matter since it's impossible to actually know, any attempt to say how the Colts (or any other team) would be is completely abstract.  There are plenty of tangible measures of players, there is no reason to resort to intangibles.  Ultimately, the success of the Colts without Manning would depend on how good his backup is, which is pointless.  If a team didn't have a backup would thier QB be the MVP?  pointless measurement to me.

    I think Manning put up MVP seasons in 03, 04, and 06.  LT broke the rushing TD record in 06 so he deserved the award over Manning that year.  I think Manning is getting the award now for past success and not what he did in the current season.  Simply put if someone with a different name did what Manning did this year than I don't think they would have won the award.  It seems when there is no clear winner they give it to who has had the best career not the best season.  I thought if he went undefeated he should win.  Other than that his numbers just weren't as good as Brees this year and both of thier numbers were numbers you see from QB's every year.  Neither of thier seasons were particularly memorable.  Johnson of course put up a season that will be in the record books for a while.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    I disagree shen.  I am fairly certain that most if not all who vote report entirely on the NFL. 

    On the other hand, I think brees would have been a good choice.  I think he lost it because of the losses in his final 2 games.  Johnson had an incredible year.  MVP worthy except that he played on a team that did not make the playoffs.

    It can be argued certainly, but you cannot say manning hasn't been worthy any of the years he has won it.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    I didn't say he didn't earn it any year he has won it.  I thought it was clear in the 3rd paragraph that I thought he should have won it in 2003 and 2004.  I thought he would be 2nd in 06 because LT's record season.  In 2008 I think several people were more deserving, most notably Rivers.  This year I would put him 2nd or 3rd
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    Yes I know you said that about the other years.  I was speaking more to this year and last. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

        Personally I think Drew Brees deserved it this year. Better overall stats and I also think the Saints would be lost without him just like the Colts would be without Peyton. I really don't care about this award that much though. I can name every baseball MVP award winner in the 70's and 80's and the years they won it. I assume O.J Simpson won it when he rushed for 2000 yards and Marino probably won it in 1984 but after that I'm clueless. This award is similar to the Heisman in that defenders probably need not bother thinking about it (and yes I have heard two defenders have won it. I would guess Taylor in the 80's and maybe Lester Hayes with his stick um or Deacon Jones inthe 60's ?)
       Peyton certainly had a worthy year but I usually disagree with the choice of most Super Bowl MVP choices much more than this choice Eli was one lucky catch from being a complete goat in 2007, the Colts running backs should have shared the MVP award in 2006 instead of Peyton. Big Ben should have been MVP last year. Brady didn't deserve it in 2001 but he should have gotten it in 2004.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    Drew Brees was excellent this year and there is no question that a case can be made for him.  His falter in the last 2 games, which Manning did not have, as I said before, I think was his downfall. 

    CC - I also disagree with SB MVP votes.  I think more times than not, they are popularity votes unless one person just stands out uniquely, which is not very common.  The league MVP is derived from a season's body of work, not about 30 minutes of play (no player goes both ways so estimated time for one player on th field).  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    Oh . . .  look . . .

    The guy who belittles Tom Brady's accomplishments by pointing out that football is a team game wants to credit his guy with winning streaks.

    That's our dogg.

    Singular shinging brilliance when his guy does it.


    Supporting cast when anyone else does.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    Last year - among the top QB's.

    1.  Manning finished the season with a 9 game win streak.  
    Wrong 

    2.  Was 6th in passer rating.  No QB ahead of him had a better record.  3 of the 5 ahead were on teams that did not make the playoffs.  The other 2 were on teams with records of 8-8 and 9-7.  The colts were 12-4
     What does your record have to do about being MVP?

    3.  Manning's #1 rusher had 544 yds rushing for #40 in the league.  As a team, the colts were #31 in rushing offense. 
    NE's was not much better.

    4.  Marvin Harrison was a shell of his former self in his last year. Ah 60 catches and 636 yds but Wayne had 82 and 1100 yds does it matter who caught the ball.

    Last year was an amazing year for manning.  
    But Cassell's was never expected Manning's was.

    Based upon this theory why wasn't Cassell the winner?
    No one expected what he did to get the Pats to 11-5 and screwed out of a playoff spot because an 8-8 team got in.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    Jimmy

    1.  Actually this is correct.  In 2008 - the year we are discussing if you missed that - the Colts won their final 9 games.  Manning played the first series of that game and the team scored.  Tenn never scored in the game, so if this was like Baseball, and Manning was the pitcher, he would get the win. 
    2.  Records are meaningful when considering MVP, because who wants to give MVP to a team that either has a losing record or is not good enough to make the playoffs.  Over the course of the year, I know some voters have indicated this is a factor.
    3.  So would you have given the MVP to Matt Cassell?  Your leading rusher had nearly 200 yds more than the colts leading rusher.
    4.  What matters where receivers are concerned is that everyone wants to suggest that Manning has had the best receivers which has generally been true, but one of those, Harrison, was no longer reliable in the way he was earlier in his career. 
    5.  Cassell, imo, made it clear that the QB position in NE is not as important as it appears.  After Brady's record breaking MVP year in 07, Cassell (having not started a game since high school) took his team to an 11-5 record.  Incredible, but indicative of the theory a game manager QB in NE can be effective, especially with the best WR corps in the NFL. 

    As for getting scre wed - I don't know.  Every team has to win its division first then be one of the best 2 other teams left.  That 8-8 team won their division and are currently the favorite to win this year's SB.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1021us. Show m1021us's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    LOL!  Manning is like the pitcher.....maybe in Indy where the cows are the catchers......

    can you show me where there are wins and losses in a QB stats sheet?

    Chris Johnson dominated all RB's and does deserve it more than Pay-A-Ton....
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

     His QB rating is only very good not exceptional like an MVP's should be.

      The colts had alot of come from behind victorys but Manning was only directly resonsable for one and maybe two of them the rest where won by the Colts defence.

     Manning also throws alot of picks for a guy with the best pass protection OL in the NFL.

     
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    m10 - LOL!  It was analogy for every QB (including yours).  Cows are catchers - funny.  Did you come up with that all by yourself or did you google middle america jokes?
     
    As for wins and losses being a part of a qb's stat sheet, if you would like to go there we can start a brand new Brady vs Manning arguement where everyone on this board uses Brady's postseason w-l record as the only rationale for him being better than Manning.  If we have to take out wins and losses, then Manning runs roughshod over Brady. 

    Sorry, I digressed.  Anyway - the record portion as I mentioned and I am sure you read is that MVP voters are not going to vote for a guy on a losing or non-playoff team.  I went back 30 years and there is not a single winner of the MVP that did not take his teams to the playoffs.  For this award team w-l record matters, because w-l record matters as far as getting to the playoffs is concerned.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    Mungo -

    Manning has thrown 2.02 TD / Int.  By contrast here are some others:
    Farve - 1.57
    Warner - 1.63
    Brees - 1.83
    Brady - 2.27
    Marino - 1.66
    Tarkenton - 1.28
    Elway - 1.33
    Montana - 1.96

    I'd say that puts both Manning and Brady into some pretty rarified air.  As I have said, during Brady's superbowl winning years, he only had to be a game manager, which he is great at, but he didn't have to necessarily win games like Manning did because Brady could rely on his defense.  Manning didn't have the same luxury and had to take more risks.  This is one of the reasons that Manning wins the MVP like he does.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    Didn't the Colts have the top rated defense in 2005, and 2nd in 2007.  The defense argument is just not true since 2004.  Record matters, stats matter it all matters.  But you can't argue he should win the MVP one year when he had the best stats but not the best record and then say another year he should win the MVP when he has the best record but not the best stats.  Or for that matter when he has neither. 

    It doesn't matter anyway the AP made up the award  not the NFL.  It is by it's nature a popularity contest and not a football award.  No differrent than if you made the "UD player of the century"  award and chose some people to vote on it.  The result would be the opinion of a few people who share a certain point of view.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: peyton manning mvp question

    Shen - you are correct with your years, but in 2006 they were 23rd.  It was getting Sanders back that keyed our SB run.  In 2008 we were 7th.  so, yes we are getting better.

    I never said a player had to have the best stats or that a team had to have the best record, but both have to be good.
     

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