Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning :      Agreed. But, the reason he's been hurt so often is that the Colts used him like another LB. Sanders is listed at 5'8", 206 lbs.. Eventually, all those collisions with much bigger bodies took its' toll.      Here are his stats: http://www.nfl.com/players/bobsanders/profile?id=SAN287153
    Posted by TexasPat3


    hes only 5'8''?! damn he looks so much bigger in games.. but then again i cant remember the last time i saw him on the field lol, he is a long way away from hiw 07 defensive player of the year pereformance, and he is going to keep getting worse (i hope)
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    Pumping in fake crowd noise > taping defensive signals that are already being deciphered with binoculars from the press box anyway (like every other team, including the Colts, does it).

    As for the Colts' D, which is the main thrust of this thread: they're built like all of Polian's other defenses, pretty much, especially the defenses he built in Buffalo during their 4-year run as AFC champs: emphasis on the pass rush (Bruce Smith, Cornelius Bennett, in Buffalo; Freeney and Mathis in Indy), good secondary play, but very, very weak against the run (which cost the Bills in Super Bowl XXV when the Giants' ground attack kept the K-Gun off the field for 41 minutes). Now, the rules, thanks in part to Polian himself, have changed a lot since the early 90s, so having a weak rush defense is not as damaging as it was when the Bills were unable to stop the run, but it's still pretty important when you go up against a team that can both run and pass--like New Orleans could in this year's Super Bowl.

    I'd love to see the Pats rush the QB the way the Colts can, but all in all I'd rather see a defense that can force a team into 3rd and long situations most of the time and then take my chances with 6 DBs once 3rd down comes.
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    Their D is a joke. There pass rush leads to winning theory is exactly why they dont win when it counts. They dont know how to stop the run because all their players are built to rush the passer. Tony D and his Tampa Two defense *SUCK balls....
    Posted by MVPKilla2009


    There is nothing "unique" or original or complicated about the Colts defense.  It's what Monte Kiffin ran for years in Tampa.  Dungy learned it from his days as a player in Pittsburgh and it just evolved.  Jimmy Johnson ran it at UM back in the day.  A bunch of teams run it in the league today. 

    It's predicated on speed and agility and gang tackling.  But without the right personnel it's just another scheme.  Tampa's was so effective because they had studs and hall of famers all over the field that could all run and that knew exactly what Kiffin wanted to do.  Sapp, Brooks, Rice, McFarland, Lynch, Barber, etc.  Indy has never had comparable talent to that outside of Freeney and Sanders and those guys are always hurt. 

    Indy's defense has had its moments.  But let's not get carried away, without Manning that's a .500 team at best.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from waldorff. Show waldorff's posts

    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    All the whining about the calls against the Pats is just plain sad.  You all sound like Raiders fans after the 'tuck' call.   You just need to suk it up. By the way, obviously Peyton doesn't have the rings, but this notion that he chokes in the playoffs is pretty ignorant.  This is an interesting article.  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/126162-the-myth-of-peyton-mannings-postseason-chokes-exposed-as-works-of-fiction
    A team that loses doesn't autmatically 'choke.' Peyton doesn't choke any more than Brady in 2007.  A record setting offense from an undefeated team got held to 14 points against an inferior team.  Is that a choke?  Let's not make excuses about that catch at the end.  That is not why the Pats didn't win that game.  They were outcoached and outplayed.  It happens.
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    For all of those pats fans that want to hang that pick in the SB all on Manning - this statement must suc for you:

    6. And finally, Brady said what many have thought about last year's Super Bowl: "I can't imagine Peyton thought Reggie Wayne would stop running the route."
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning : Hmmm - How many titles did BB win with his vaunted record breaking offense? - None.
    Posted by underdoggg


    How many did The Pats  win last decade compared to Indy, loser? 2 more thats why teams mimic their organizations after us baby! Go jump off a bridge
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    For all of those pats fans that want to hang that pick in the SB all on Manning - this statement must suc for you: 6. And finally, Brady said what many have thought about last year's Super Bowl: "I can't imagine Peyton thought Reggie Wayne would stop running the route."
    Posted by underdoggg


    Who cares! The Qb's job is just that. See the play, make the play. Manning had pressure in his face, anticipated wrong. Got burned as a result. But now you wanna blame Wayne for the for his shortcomings. tisk tisk. Where was there great D btw underpoo??? Ya got 31 hung on you in the SB.....
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning : Who cares! The Qb's job is just that. See the play, make the play. Manning had pressure in his face, anticipated wrong. Got burned as a result. But now you wanna blame Wayne for the for his shortcomings. tisk tisk. Where was there great D btw underpoo??? Ya got 31 hung on you in the SB.....
    Posted by datdude401


    Are you saying Brady choked in 2007?  Or did the D let us down? 
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning : Are you saying Brady choked in 2007?  Or did the D let us down? 
    Posted by waldorff


    In 2007, we picked the wrong game to go thru the motions. And McDaniels play-calling really didnt get going until, what seemed like, late in the 4th qtr. But no excuses! The Giants played their butts off.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    three plays in that game...the non sack of manning by ad...the non interception of "get paid" asante  and the miracle helmet catch...

    you win some you lose some...we could have had 4 but three is nice too... and 4 and 5 are not too far off...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggg. Show underdoggg's posts

    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning : How many did The Pats  win last decade compared to Indy, loser? 2 more thats why teams mimic their organizations after us baby! Go jump off a bridge
    Posted by datdude401


    Really - who mimics their org off of the pats, certainly not the colts. 

    How relevant to today are those superbowls won in the first half of last decade?  Not very.  Great history for the pats, but that ship has sailed.  The current patriots have but a few left from those glory years and the defense that dominated then no longer exists now.  

    Lets look at the pats of the last 5 years to better assess how they are today - How many SB victories?  None?  And a superbowl loss vs. a 10-6 wildcard team.  

    Live in the past my friend.  There is glory there, but the colts are the top team of the afc today. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning : Really - who mimics their org off of the pats,
     
    RESPONSE:  Many teams do. More and more teams are switching to a 3-4 defense, which is making it more difficult for the Pats to refurbish their 3-4 through the draft. Which brings me back to my original question posed in this thread. Teams have mimicked the Pats due to their success. Why haven't teams tried to mimic the Colts?

    How relevant to today are those superbowls won in the first half of last decade?  Not very.  Great history for the pats, but that ship has sailed.  The current patriots have but a few left from those glory years and the defense that dominated then no longer exists now.

    Don't be so quick to discount the Patriots...they're not that far removed from contention. The success or failure of their 2010 draft class may well determine whether they will return to prominence.  

    Lets look at the pats of the last 5 years to better assess how they are today -

    RESPONSE: The past 5 years are irrelevant to what is happening now. Last year is relevant only. When a team has aging players, a team may decline very suddenly.  Peyton and Jeff Saturday are 34...Dwight Freeney is a dinged up 30 year old. The Patriots are not the only team in the league with "concerns". 

    And a superbowl loss vs. a 10-6 wildcard team.

    RESPONSE: A 10-6 wildcard team that peaked at the right time...beat three NFC teams with much better records on the road...and were far better than that joke of a Bears' team that the Colts beat in the 2006-07 SB. 

    Live in the past my friend. There is glory there, but the colts are the top team of the afc today.

    RESPONSE: Yes. The Colts are the team to beat in 2010. But the past is relevant in one respect. The Colts have shown themselves to be the greatest choke artists in NFL history, over the past decade. They choked again last year...and odds are they'll choke again, in 2010. 
     
    Posted by underdoggg
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    Teams haven't mimicked the colts D, because it has not been great.  What teams have specifically tried to do is bring in systems and players to counter the colts.  It hasn't worked that well. 

    The pats may be very good in a couple of years, but that is quite a ways away from their glory days.  Further, Brady in a couple of years will be a couple of years older and it seems his priorities are changing.  Does this indicate a potential downturn in the pats offensive effectiveness?

    The past 5 years are significantly more relevant to the pats today than the 5 years prior. 

    The pats loss to a 10-6 team 5th seed with a QB that many wanted to pan until he actually won.  The colts played a 13-3 team who was the #1 seed in the NFC.  You guys play up the Giants to explain your loss while criticizing the Bears to downgrade the Colts win.  You are not showing just a little bit of bias are you?

    As for your choke comment - All this means is that the pats since 01 have choked 2 times less than the colts.  And in the more relevant last 5 years, the colts have choked one time less than the pats.  I'd rather live in the current than the past. 
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    Teams haven't mimicked the colts D, because it has not been great.  What teams have specifically tried to do is bring in systems and players to counter the colts.  It hasn't worked that well.  The pats may be very good in a couple of years, but that is quite a ways away from their glory days.  Further, Brady in a couple of years will be a couple of years older and it seems his priorities are changing.  Does this indicate a potential downturn in the pats offensive effectiveness? The past 5 years are significantly more relevant to the pats today than the 5 years prior.  The pats loss to a 10-6 team 5th seed with a QB that many wanted to pan until he actually won.  The colts played a 13-3 team who was the #1 seed in the NFC.  You guys play up the Giants to explain your loss while criticizing the Bears to downgrade the Colts win.  You are not showing just a little bit of bias are you? As for your choke comment - All this means is that the pats since 01 have choked 2 times less than the colts.  And in the more relevant last 5 years, the colts have choked one time less than the pats.  I'd rather live in the current than the past. 
    Posted by underdoggg


    Oh okay, then the Saints are the greatest team in history.  Nobody won more games in the past decade than the Patriots but I bet that too is "irrelevant" because it doesn't fit your argument.  Manning and Dilfer both have ONE ring.  Woooo!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 123meg. Show 123meg's posts

    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    Kansas City, Denver, Cleveland, yup, no one mimicks the Patriots.  Clues for sale, who needs a clue?

    Dress it up any way you want - the Colts played the bears for their only title.  There were a half dozen AFC teams, at least, that would've wiped the floor with the Bears that year. 
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    Top team in the regular season maybe.  Maybe. Playoffs?  Not so much.
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning : Oh okay, then the Saints are the greatest team in history.  Nobody won more games in the past decade than the Patriots but I bet that too is "irrelevant" because it doesn't fit your argument.  Manning and Dilfer both have ONE ring.  Woooo!
    Posted by 123meg


    And what does that one ring have to do with how effective the pats have been in the last 5 years?
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    Kansas City, Denver, Cleveland, yup, no one mimicks the Patriots.  Clues for sale, who needs a clue? Dress it up any way you want - the Colts played the bears for their only title.  There were a half dozen AFC teams, at least, that would've wiped the floor with the Bears that year. 
    Posted by 123meg


    Really?  Based on what facts do you make the above "bolded" statement?
     
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    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    Top team in the regular season maybe.  Maybe. Playoffs?  Not so much.
    Posted by 123meg


    Actually reg season and playoffs too.  The colts represented the AFC in the superbowl - remember?

    The difference between you and me is that the facts actually validate my opinion while your opinion has no facts to validate it - "half a dozen AFC teams could have beaten the bears in 06"
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning : Really - who mimics their org off of the pats, certainly not the colts.  How relevant to today are those superbowls won in the first half of last decade?  Not very.  Great history for the pats, but that ship has sailed.  The current patriots have but a few left from those glory years and the defense that dominated then no longer exists now.   Lets look at the pats of the last 5 years to better assess how they are today - How many SB victories?  None?  And a superbowl loss vs. a 10-6 wildcard team.   Live in the past my friend.  There is glory there, but the colts are the top team of the afc today. 
    Posted by underdoggg



    Top team in the AFC?????? Really?  Your team didn't even have the guts to go for a perfect season!!!  We will see just how dominant you are when your team plays us on the road every game for the next three or four years.  No sauna, no piped in crowd noise, no home town refs, no flu, we will see doggie-do. We will see.  Granted
    you have six games every season with the mighty texans, titans and the kitty cats, but we will see how horse face handles the next three years in New England. Won't be long now.
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    I've been reading up on the Colts and some of the smart football fans are starting to come around that the good times can't last forever. 2009 NFL Season: The Once and Future Colts, is a good article I've included some text.

    The annual post-season missteps by the Colts are beginning to resemble those of major league baseball’s Atlanta Braves of the 1990′s.  Nowhere is that similarity more evident than “on the mound.”   Peyton Manning is the football equivalent of Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, Tom Glavine and Steve Avery.  What these men share, in addition to flawless technical mastery of their craft, are deeply disappointing championship seasons.  For the Braves, there were so many challengers: the one-dimensional homer domers (the 1991 Minnesota Twins), the 1996 Yankees (trailed the Braves 2-0 after dropping two at home), the 1998 San Diego Padres, and the 1999 Yankees (authors of an embarrassing Series sweep).  For Manning, there have always been the New England Patriots and the San Diego Chargers.  Four of his nine playoff seasons have ended at the hands of these two teams.  In his younger days, there were the Titans, Dolphins, and Jets.  To this mix have been added the New Orleans Saints.  It was akin to the Braves losing to …the Florida Marlins.  From 1991 to 2005, the Braves finished in first place every season, except for 1994.  From 1999 through this season, the Colts have won at least 10 games in every season except one: 2001.

    Today, Peyton Manning is not considered the greatest quarterback to ever play the game.  The idea is not empirically sustainable.  Nor is Greg Maddux, for example,  considered the greatest pitcher to ever play the game.  The Braves don’t have the best pitching staff of all time; the Colts don’t have the best offense of all time.  Peyton Manning has a record of 9 wins and 9 losses in 18 career post-season games.  Greg Maddux was 11-14 in 30 career post-season starts.  There is no denying the dominance of the Colts and Braves, but it must be said that there were limitations to their success.

    In much the same way that the Atlanta Braves of the 1990′s were compelled to surrender “Team of the Decade” status to the New York Yankees, the Colts were forced to admit to the on-field superiority of the New England Patriots and Pittsburgh Steelers, if not the San Diego Chargers.  All expectations are that the Colts will continue their regular season success and domination of the AFC South.  The franchise has weathered the transition from Faulk to James and from James to Addai as well as they managed the transition from Harrison to Wayne.  The real question is whether or not the Colts can remake themselves into a dominant post-season team; can they become the team that wins the games they’ve most often found a way to lose.

    What would you change about the Colts for the 2010 season?  Will the maturation of Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie be sufficient next season?  Does this team need more depth to spell Dwight Freeney?  Do you simply wait for Marlin Jackson and Bob Sanders to come back healthy?  Who should coach the offensive line with Howard Mudd moving on?  Who fills the shoes of Tom Moore?  What are the larger implications of this loss?  Did the Saints deliver a new blueprint type of victory that will be used in next years playoffs?  Gregg Williams’ didn’t follow the 3-4 outside linebacker approach that worked so well for New England, Pittsburgh and San Diego.  Will his approach be copied by teams like Houston and Tennessee during the regular season?  When a team performs this well for this long, it is very difficult to make significant changes — and yet, it is hard to argue that things should remain wholly as they are. Teams that lose the Super Bowl almost always have a great deal  of work to do.  Retooling and tweaking usually aren’t enough — and wholesale changes are rarely made in franchises who’ve had such consistent success.

    This article puts in perspective what I believe about Indy and that's that they are the Atlanta Braves of football. Peyton Manning aka Greg Maddox will continue to pile up the wins in the regular season while fizzling down home stretch.

    Best team in the AFC? This team is full of question marks while following the Atlanta Braves formula.
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning : Top team in the AFC?????? Really?  Your team didn't even have the guts to go for a perfect season!!!  We will see just how dominant you are when your team plays us on the road every game for the next three or four years.  No sauna, no piped in crowd noise, no home town refs, no flu, we will see doggie-do. We will see.  Granted you have six games every season with the mighty texans, titans and the kitty cats, but we will see how horse face handles the next three years in New England. Won't be long now.
    Posted by bradleyBliss


    Really!!!!!!! (had to match the question marks).  Just curious, since you asked in a way that assumed I was wrong, who do you think the top team in the AFC is?

    Oh and just so you know, the pats have played the colts only for the last 3 years in Indy, not including the playoff game they lost here in 06. 

    In 05 and 06 those Patriot losses to Indy were in Foxborough 21-40 and 20-27.  Foxborough doesn't scare anyone, especially now that Belichick can't effectively soak the field in order to slow down opposing teams.  That said, he can still mess with those radio frequencies. 
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    fantasy -

    Manning is considered by many to be the greatest QB.  Over the past 5 years he's had a better average QB rating in the playoffs than Brady.  And just as you cannot give Brady all the credit for the wins.  The D and Vinatieri deserve just as much, you can't place all of the blame for colts losses on manning.

    And I wouldn't call getting to the superbowl "fizzling down the stretch", would you?
     
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    In Response to Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning:
    fantasy - Manning is considered by many to be the greatest QB.  Over the past 5 years he's had a better average QB rating in the playoffs than Brady.  And just as you cannot give Brady all the credit for the wins.  The D and Vinatieri deserve just as much, you can't place all of the blame for colts losses on manning. And I wouldn't call getting to the superbowl "fizzling down the stretch", would you?
    Posted by underdoggg


    Well doggg you keep writing how the Pats blew their wad for 2007 and came up short etc. What makes the Colt SB loss different? Was it a heroic failure? Its the recent history on the team that matters as you say and not four years ago or whenever it was they beat the Bears. The Colts are years away from a SB. Please don't argue the stats stuff. The only stat that matters is the championships stat. The Colts have had consistent offensive meltdowns in the playoffs and this more than a small defense has killed them. If this was NASCAR they would win with points. If this was a boxing match they would win by decision. But this is football and no matter how well Peyton throws or how many yards Chris Johnson runs all that matters in the end is the championship. Who is the player-coach that runs the Colt offense - Peyton. I can't give Brady all the credit for the wins but I can't pin a loss on him either. He came back in 2007 to give them the lead before the defense blew the game. I actually thought it was a great game and that NY got a great win. I was bummed but life goes on. Can I blame the SB loss on Peyton for throwing the INT? Yes. You can't pencil in the Colts for the SB. Especially since they have such vast history of choking/losing whatever. Things change fast and I think Dwight Freeney's don't grow on trees; that draft pick we let you have isn't the next Dwight Freeney; he may even be the next Adalius Thomas.  What happens if Reggie Wayne's knee gives again this year? As the author pointed out in the article; have we now got a blueprint for beating the Colts? Can the Colts win anything meaningful without Freeney?
     
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    Re: Polian "D" Formula: Rushing the Passer = Winning

    Fantasy - the comparison of the colts this year and pats in 07 are valid given their regular season excellence with a couple of exceptions:

    1.  No one thought the colts were that good at the start of the season, and they never were as good as their record throughout the season - frequently having to come from behind to win.  Frankly, their making it to the superbowl was miraculous.  By contrast, the pats were expected to dominate the league and they did only failing in the superbowl. 

    2.  As for blowing the wad, they have not met expectations since.  Obviously, the Brady injury could not have been expected and the pats performed admirably but did not make the playoffs in the most mediocre division in the league.  Last year, the pats were the league's odds on favorite to rep the AFC in the superbowl with the return of Brady and they did not even come close.  The colts again were expected to be nothing last year with the change in head coaches and a change at DC. 

    Look - I don't know how you can't blame tom Brady - He was nothing less than all world in 2007 breaking every record in the book.  He even played Rex Ryan before Ryan ever thought of it - "Is Plax going to play defense"?  Brady's passer rating for the year was 117.  It was 82 for the game.  He threw 3 incomplete passes to end the game?  Of course he can be blamed for choking.  How about 2006 when he lost the game in Indy with an Int.  How about 3 ints in the divisional game this year?

     

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