Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    Based on all the talking heads evaluations of this years draft, I assume BB wont use either of his 1st round picks this year. The strength of the draft (so I read) is in rounds 2-4. The "experts say the talent from late first round to mid 3rd is comparable! Taking into account no 5,6,or 7 round picks this year, no late picks next year, I fully expect BB to trade around the board and end up with something like 3 2nds, 3 3rds, and again a couple 1's and twos next year. (not saying I agree with it jsut thats what I expect) Thoughts? Mbelieu (sp?) I would especially lilke to hear your take on the statement that the talent from late first to mid 3rd is pretty comparable.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from norichcrybabies. Show norichcrybabies's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    In Response to Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks:
    [QUOTE]Based on all the talking heads evaluations of this years draft, I assume BB wont use either of his 1st round picks this year. The strength of the draft (so I read) is in rounds 2-4. The "experts say the talent from late first round to mid 3rd is comparable! Taking into account no 5,6,or 7 round picks this year, no late picks next year, I fully expect BB to trade around the board and end up with something like 3 2nds, 3 3rds, and again a couple 1's and twos next year. (not saying I agree with it jsut thats what I expect) Thoughts? Mbelieu (sp?) I would especially lilke to hear your take on the statement that the talent from late first to mid 3rd is pretty comparable.
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]

    Actually, this would fall right in line with something I just posted.  It could definately happen.  And I'm OK with it.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    We'll see. One thing of note, is the 1st rd picks are more valuable now, so there is always the chance BB leverages that to anal rape some sap organization.

    Sort of hard to complain about last year's deal with the Saints. 1st rd pick, and then taking Ridley and Vereen as we watch Ingram finish the year battling his leg problems.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    From Reiss:

    1. The defensive end class, which includes players who could potentially be outside linebackers in the 3-4 defense, is “loaded from the back half of the first round all the way through the third round.” Clemson’s Andre Branch, Illinois’ Whitney Mercilus, USC’s Nick Perry and Marshall’s Vinny Curry were a few names mentioned in this category.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    In Response to Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks:
    [QUOTE]From Reiss: 1. The defensive end class, which includes players who could potentially be outside linebackers in the 3-4 defense, is “loaded from the back half of the first round all the way through the third round.” Clemson’s Andre Branch , Illinois’ Whitney Mercilus , USC’s Nick Perry and Marshall’s Vinny Curry were a few names mentioned in this category.
    Posted by Getzo[/QUOTE]
    UNLESS there is the proverbial unpredicted "run on a position" where teams just pick the better player on the board vs a need player and as such these players evaporate quickly.

    The talking head can/will make a reasoning for whatever crap they want to sell you... that is why Colin Cowturd still has a job...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from nomadfan. Show nomadfan's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    Would not be surprised at all if one of the 2 first round picks is traded. Both? Depends on whether the one BB really wants is still on the Board when the number comes up.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from GO47. Show GO47's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    In Response to Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks:
    [QUOTE]Based on all the talking heads evaluations of this years draft, I assume BB wont use either of his 1st round picks this year. The strength of the draft (so I read) is in rounds 2-4. The "experts say the talent from late first round to mid 3rd is comparable! Taking into account no 5,6,or 7 round picks this year, no late picks next year, I fully expect BB to trade around the board and end up with something like 3 2nds, 3 3rds, and again a couple 1's and twos next year. (not saying I agree with it jsut thats what I expect) Thoughts? Mbelieu (sp?) I would especially lilke to hear your take on the statement that the talent from late first to mid 3rd is pretty comparable.
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]

    If that is what the experts are now saying then that means BB will use the picks where they are. :-)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    i see an Olineman and cannot see taking any wr's

    QB'S - set
    rb's   - maybe one but i see a FA 
    oline  - guard/center type -or FA
    wr's   - set
    te's set

    dline - maybe need one
    ilb's -  set?
    olb's - only in draft
    db's -  maybe 1 in draft

    so i see the 1st rounders as trade bait too
    unless there is one defensive player they
    really want


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    bb may want to trade of bouth first rounders, but it may be difficult to find partners for the trade, unless he's willing to take 2014 first rounders. at least it will be difficult to find partners who will land him picks between 31 and 48. i think the best value is between 34 and 42.

    before bounty-gate, i thought saints could be takers for one of the 1st rounders. but now, i am not sure they even have the 2012 or 2013 chips to play the trade game. even before bountygate, saints' pick is after 48 anyway.

    oakland overpaid for their qb. there's another team out of chips to buy a higher pick.

    atlanta might be possible but their second roudner is after 48.

    cle, min are already in perfect spots to get their backup QBs.

    was and dal maybe. but then they're also in a weird spot. my guess is they also want trade their high picks for more picks as their cap situation will tie their hands from signing expensive FAs.

    the next set of potential partners are mia and buf. i don't see in-div trade as likely to happen. 

    looks like a lot of people will be happy that nwe will be forced to pick at 27 and 31. the question is if people will be happy with who bb picks.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from batou. Show batou's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    I did not realize that in-div trades for draft picks were taboo like the in-dev player trades. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from elDunker2. Show elDunker2's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    Ya, I agree. Based on immediate Pats needs to win now and the picks/positions of other potential trade partners, the big surprise will be BB actually not trading any picks this year. I expect a DE/OLB (Branch) and another defensive position player - CB, OLB or DL with 31st pick depending who is available (and assuming Barron is gone). Second round pick will include C and another D. With Lloyd and an improved Ocho, I don't see a need for more WRs.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    Given his prior history I would say it's a safe bet that 1 will be traded but not both.

    Where the Pats are sitting is where there is good depth with decent value in the WR, front 7, and CB positions. All of which are needs for the Pats. The thing is that this draft doesn't have great talent up front. A lot of the depth starts in the back end of the 1st and carries over to the beginning of the 4th. From that range you can find talent that would normally be found in the 20-50 pick range throughout that area.  Odds are that BB will pick 4-5 picks in the 1st three rounds as he has in the last couple of years. Which means he'll trade a couple of those picks backwards but might remain in that range. He's also always used at least one 1st when he's had 2 too use so I fully expect him to use either #27 or #31 (my guess would be on an interior DL)
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    The key point here is who is available at #27 or #31 that could cause another team to trade up. I'm thinking if Hightower, Jenkins or Barron is available that pick could be trade bait even though some posters would like to see the Pats land one or two of those players. I do think there is good value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds this year, but if BB doesn;t like this draft he could parlay the picks into picks for 2013. My guess is Belichick will use one of the 1sts to trade down,

    I will say this. There is not a player on the defensive side of the ball that I would want the Pats to trade up to get (eg: Patrick Peterson or a Suh) unless Barron can be had between 15-20 and that might mean the loss of 2nd round pick.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joel63. Show Joel63's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

     Quagmire,

    I agree, and have felt this way for a month now. I'm not foolish enough to speculate on Coach's intentions, but I know one thing, his phone is gonna ring off the hook in that war room on days one and two!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from df5. Show df5's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    One's thing's for certain we will get no impact players on defense from the draft. We never do. And Bill is too cheap to pay the going rate for good free agents (even our own). In the meantime we have one of the worst defenses in the league- which should surprise no one given the "value" strategy employed by Bill.

    Let's play a game:Name 6 impact players Bill Belichick has drafted since he got here:

    1) Asante Samuel. Late round pick. Good route jumper. Bad cover corner and no clutch gene. Maybe there was a reason he went in the fourth, behind Eugene Wilson.

    2) Vince Wilfork. The best player on defense and hands down Bill's best ever defensive draft pick. Not a franchise player. But he's a legit All Pro. But here's the important part: Mid first round pick. I know, wacky concept: you can actually get talent in round one instead of training camp fodder that will gone in 6-24 months. It seems like Bill would be smart enough to figure this out.

    3) Jarrod Mayo. Solid player. Second best player on this defense. Not exactly the superstar/franchise player that you would hope to draft when picking at 7 But much better than the second and third round jags Bill keeps trading for

    4) Richard Seymour. Little bit of a dog and a bit overrated. But he was a perennial Pro Bowler and one of Bill's first picks. I don't think he had the cache or the stones to trade that pick. Today, if he had the 5th pick in the draft he'd probably trade it for two JAGs that he would cut in year two or three.

    5) Devin McCourty. I mention him because his rookie year was phenomenal. People were comparing him to Revis. Unfortunately his second year was as bad as his first year was good. The jury's still out on him. I still think he was playing hurt last year. It's the only logical explanation for such a dropoff. But even if he is a bust at least Bill took a chance in round one. I don't have a problem with doing that instead of just flat out wasting picks.

    6) Here's the depressing part. There is no number six. Over a decade of drafting and I can't think of half a dozen impact players drafted by our GM thanks to his idiotic value system. He hasn't done a thing defensively since he signed Rodney and got Vrabel. That's why our defense is in such dire straights.

    There are certain positions that you have to "overpay" for on defense. He seems to get this on offense. Brady is overpaid and Mankins is grossly, obscenely overpaid. Because that's what the market was. But on defense. Nobody. Even a guy like Andre Carter, who we desperately needed and could afford, we let walk. To the Bills. And let me tell you, everybody around here is obsessed with the Jets and that's crazy. They are the Jets. They are a joke. They aren't a threat to anybody. But the Bills with Williams and Carter are shaping up to be exactly the type of team that always gives the Patriots fits. If you can get to Brady you don't need an offense. The double whammy here is that the Bills have an explosive offense. And we handed them Carter on a silver platter to help them beat us. Beautiful.

    It took me a while to learn my lesson. But I'm not going anywhere near the draft this year. I'll just check the next day to see how hard Bill s.c.r.e.w.e.d us. He has sucked every last drop of fun out the draft. 

    He will flip the two first rounders for future picks and then draft a couple of fullbacks a reciver and a another TE. Or something equally stupid. Maybe throw a WR, C and a kicker in there for good measure. In the meantime, our defense can't stop Eli frking Manning in a two minute drill. It' a a joke. What's even more insane is that noone seems to have a problem with it.

    Let's just cover the typical responses and save you guys some time.

    You're an idiot. This team is a perennial playoff contender. Most teams and fans would be greatful to have that kind of success you ungrateful doody head.

    You're a troll.

    You must be a Jets fan.

    Why don't you go follow the Redskins. They spend plenty of money.

    I'm sorry if I left  off any of the canned responses from the Belichick cult. But some of us have a problem with consistently coming up short. I don't see being number two as an accomplishment. Or fielding a team year after year that isn't talented enough to win a title. I don't see the "genius" of continuing to do the same thing repeatedly when it is proven to not work.

    Bill is a terrific coach. But the GM thing is not working out. We are two season away form the 10th anniversary of our last title. Brady's window is closing and there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency.

    It's just getting really discouraging to watch the same garbage year after year.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    In Response to Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks:
    [QUOTE]Given his prior history I would say it's a safe bet that 1 will be traded but not both. Where the Pats are sitting is where there is good depth with decent value in the WR, front 7, and CB positions. All of which are needs for the Pats. The thing is that this draft doesn't have great talent up front. A lot of the depth starts in the back end of the 1st and carries over to the beginning of the 4th. From that range you can find talent that would normally be found in the 20-50 pick range throughout that area.  Odds are that BB will pick 4-5 picks in the 1st three rounds as he has in the last couple of years. Which means he'll trade a couple of those picks backwards but might remain in that range. He's also always used at least one 1st when he's had 2 too use so I fully expect him to use either #27 or #31 (my guess would be on an interior DL)
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    "interior DL" - not sure what you actually mean. interior DL in college to play De on a 34?

    to get one who now looks like an impact guy, they probably have to pick between 25 and 45. that is where the following seems to be picked

    still, reyes, worthy, thompson

    beyond that, i am guessing you're left with wolf who can be available up to late third. i am not sold on the kid. 

    the other option is taking taamu to play in the middle and perhaps move vw at DE. i don't know if vw has the stamina for them to do that a lot, but they did that quite a bit in the payoffs and it seemed to work pretty well. it was the formation that allowed them to get the QB the most. it makes sense. basically the opposing side had to deal with vw and the rushing OLB.

    after the third, i think you're just crossing your fingers that you get someone more than second stringers.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    In Response to Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks:
    [QUOTE]One's thing's for certain we will get no impact players on defense from the draft. We never do. And Bill is too cheap to pay the going rate for good free agents (even our own). In the meantime we have one of the worst defenses in the league- which should surprise no one given the "value" strategy employed by Bill. Let's play a game:Name 6 impact players Bill Belichick has drafted since he got here: 1) Asante Samuel. Late round pick. Good route jumper. Bad cover corner and no clutch gene. Maybe there was a reason he went in the fourth, behind Eugene Wilson. 2) Vince Wilfork. The best player on defense and hands down Bill's best ever defensive draft pick. Not a franchise player. But he's a legit All Pro. But here's the important part: Mid first round pick. I know, wacky concept: you can actually get talent in round one instead of training camp fodder that will gone in 6-24 months. It seems like Bill would be smart enough to figure this out. 3) Jarrod Mayo. Solid player. Second best player on this defense. Not exactly the superstar/franchise player that you would hope to draft when picking at 7 But much better than the second and third round jags Bill keeps trading for 4) Richard Seymour. Little bit of a dog and a bit overrated. But he was a perennial Pro Bowler and one of Bill's first picks. I don't think he had the cache or the stones to trade that pick. Today, if he had the 5th pick in the draft he'd probably trade it for two JAGs that he would cut in year two or three. 5) Devin McCourty. I mention him because his rookie year was phenomenal. People were comparing him to Revis. Unfortunately his second year was as bad as his first year was good. The jury's still out on him. I still think he was playing hurt last year. It's the only logical explanation for such a dropoff. But even if he is a bust at least Bill took a chance in round one. I don't have a problem with doing that instead of just flat out wasting picks. 6) Here's the depressing part. There is no number six. Over a decade of drafting and I can't think of half a dozen impact players drafted by our GM thanks to his idiotic value system. He hasn't done a thing defensively since he signed Rodney and got Vrabel. That's why our defense is in such dire straights. There are certain positions that you have to "overpay" for on defense. He seems to get this on offense. Brady is overpaid and Mankins is grossly, obscenely overpaid. Because that's what the market was. But on defense. Nobody. Even a guy like Andre Carter, who we desperately needed and could afford, we let walk. To the Bills. And let me tell you, everybody around here is obsessed with the Jets and that's crazy. They are the Jets. They are a joke. They aren't a threat to anybody. But the Bills with Williams and Carter are shaping up to be exactly the type of team that always gives the Patriots fits. If you can get to Brady you don't need an offense. The double whammy here is that the Bills have an explosive offense. And we handed them Carter on a silver platter to help them beat us. Beautiful. It took me a while to learn my lesson. But I'm not going anywhere near the draft this year. I'll just check the next day to see how hard Bill s.c.r.e.w.e.d us. He has sucked every last drop of fun out the draft.  He will flip the two first rounders for future picks and then draft a couple of fullbacks a reciver and a another TE. Or something equally stupid. Maybe throw a WR, C and a kicker in there for good measure. In the meantime, our defense can't stop Eli frking Manning in a two minute drill. It' a a joke. What's even more insane is that noone seems to have a problem with it. Let's just cover the typical responses and save you guys some time. You're an idiot. This team is a perennial playoff contender. Most teams and fans would be greatful to have that kind of success you ungrateful doody head. You're a troll. You must be a Jets fan. Why don't you go follow the Redskins. They spend plenty of money. I'm sorry if I left  off any of the canned responses from the Belichick cult. But some of us have a problem with consistently coming up short. I don't see being number two as an accomplishment. Or fielding a team year after year that isn't talented enough to win a title. I don't see the "genius" of continuing to do the same thing repeatedly when it is proven to not work. Bill is a terrific coach. But the GM thing is not working out. We are two season away form the 10th anniversary of our last title. Brady's window is closing and there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency. It's just getting really discouraging to watch the same garbage year after year.
    Posted by df5[/QUOTE]

    Yikes! I'm not in the "Bill Belichick is the best GM in all of history club", but I think you're missing a few key ingredients from your list. How about Gronk and Hernandez? The trade for Welker (which essentially was a second round pick). The trade for Moss (that was third). The drafting of Cassell - that turned into an eventual second round pick. Matt Light was a franchise left tackle (or close to it) and they got him in the 2nd. They drafted Brady in the 6th. Ty Warren was more than serviceable.

    You're even off on the Carter thing - the Bills signed Anderson (who we basically scraped off the side walk for nothing), and then the Bills go ahead and give him 15 million. 

    I understand with some of what you're saying...I really do, but I think you had better get your stuff straight before posting like that around here. Again, I'm not a fan of this value approach to just about everything and the defense is a problem. And yeah, they could of spent to get a difference maker on defense over the last few seasons...and they did it again by missing out on Red Bryant.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    In Response to Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks:
    [QUOTE]Based on all the talking heads evaluations of this years draft, I assume BB wont use either of his 1st round picks this year. The strength of the draft (so I read) is in rounds 2-4. The "experts say the talent from late first round to mid 3rd is comparable! Taking into account no 5,6,or 7 round picks this year, no late picks next year, I fully expect BB to trade around the board and end up with something like 3 2nds, 3 3rds, and again a couple 1's and twos next year. (not saying I agree with it jsut thats what I expect) Thoughts? Mbelieu (sp?) I would especially lilke to hear your take on the statement that the talent from late first to mid 3rd is pretty comparable.
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]

         I tend to agree. That's the way things are shaping up in my mock draft. The Pats are best off trading down if they can. The best defensive players will be gone by the time they select.
     
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    In Response to Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks:
    [QUOTE]One's thing's for certain we will get no impact players on defense from the draft. We never do. And Bill is too cheap to pay the going rate for good free agents (even our own). In the meantime we have one of the worst defenses in the league- which should surprise no one given the "value" strategy employed by Bill. Let's play a game:Name 6 impact players Bill Belichick has drafted since he got here: 1) Asante Samuel. Late round pick. Good route jumper. Bad cover corner and no clutch gene. Maybe there was a reason he went in the fourth, behind Eugene Wilson. 2) Vince Wilfork. The best player on defense and hands down Bill's best ever defensive draft pick. Not a franchise player. But he's a legit All Pro. But here's the important part: Mid first round pick. I know, wacky concept: you can actually get talent in round one instead of training camp fodder that will gone in 6-24 months. It seems like Bill would be smart enough to figure this out. 3) Jarrod Mayo. Solid player. Second best player on this defense. Not exactly the superstar/franchise player that you would hope to draft when picking at 7 But much better than the second and third round jags Bill keeps trading for 4) Richard Seymour. Little bit of a dog and a bit overrated. But he was a perennial Pro Bowler and one of Bill's first picks. I don't think he had the cache or the stones to trade that pick. Today, if he had the 5th pick in the draft he'd probably trade it for two JAGs that he would cut in year two or three. 5) Devin McCourty. I mention him because his rookie year was phenomenal. People were comparing him to Revis. Unfortunately his second year was as bad as his first year was good. The jury's still out on him. I still think he was playing hurt last year. It's the only logical explanation for such a dropoff. But even if he is a bust at least Bill took a chance in round one. I don't have a problem with doing that instead of just flat out wasting picks. 6) Here's the depressing part. There is no number six. Over a decade of drafting and I can't think of half a dozen impact players drafted by our GM thanks to his idiotic value system. He hasn't done a thing defensively since he signed Rodney and got Vrabel. That's why our defense is in such dire straights. There are certain positions that you have to "overpay" for on defense. He seems to get this on offense. Brady is overpaid and Mankins is grossly, obscenely overpaid. Because that's what the market was. But on defense. Nobody. Even a guy like Andre Carter, who we desperately needed and could afford, we let walk. To the Bills. And let me tell you, everybody around here is obsessed with the Jets and that's crazy. They are the Jets. They are a joke. They aren't a threat to anybody. But the Bills with Williams and Carter are shaping up to be exactly the type of team that always gives the Patriots fits. If you can get to Brady you don't need an offense. The double whammy here is that the Bills have an explosive offense. And we handed them Carter on a silver platter to help them beat us. Beautiful. It took me a while to learn my lesson. But I'm not going anywhere near the draft this year. I'll just check the next day to see how hard Bill s.c.r.e.w.e.d us. He has sucked every last drop of fun out the draft.  He will flip the two first rounders for future picks and then draft a couple of fullbacks a reciver and a another TE. Or something equally stupid. Maybe throw a WR, C and a kicker in there for good measure. In the meantime, our defense can't stop Eli frking Manning in a two minute drill. It' a a joke. What's even more insane is that noone seems to have a problem with it. Let's just cover the typical responses and save you guys some time. You're an idiot. This team is a perennial playoff contender. Most teams and fans would be greatful to have that kind of success you ungrateful doody head. You're a troll. You must be a Jets fan. Why don't you go follow the Redskins. They spend plenty of money. I'm sorry if I left  off any of the canned responses from the Belichick cult. But some of us have a problem with consistently coming up short. I don't see being number two as an accomplishment. Or fielding a team year after year that isn't talented enough to win a title. I don't see the "genius" of continuing to do the same thing repeatedly when it is proven to not work. Bill is a terrific coach. But the GM thing is not working out. We are two season away form the 10th anniversary of our last title. Brady's window is closing and there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency. It's just getting really discouraging to watch the same garbage year after year.
    Posted by df5[/QUOTE]

    BB has gone out and gotten FAs before. Heck, we jsut got Lloyd who has been VERY productive the last two years and is one of the guys msot of us would have targeted. Plus he went out and got Gallery who might need to start if Mankins is not fully recovered (and he gives us more depth at T if Light retires). ANd BB went uot and got a bunch of other FAs which, even if some do not make the cut, will improve this team )a team that came damn close to winning the SB).

    These is so much crap in some of these threads. One groups says BB never does good in the draft. But he drafted an all world QB, the best TE tandem ever in the NFL, a bunch of good Olinemen, etc, etc. Then another group says he never gets FA (in their fantasy dreams I suppose) but he goes out and gets some every year and some of them are key players. THis year's group is a good one as mentioned above. Then some say he never makes any good trades. Lets forget Wleker, Moss, etc.

    Really... Now I have no problem with having opinions about this or that or liking or not liking this move or that move but these characterizations that sweep the floor clean are just rediculous.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    In Response to Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks:
    [QUOTE]Based on all the talking heads evaluations of this years draft, I assume BB wont use either of his 1st round picks this year. The strength of the draft (so I read) is in rounds 2-4. The "experts say the talent from late first round to mid 3rd is comparable! Taking into account no 5,6,or 7 round picks this year, no late picks next year, I fully expect BB to trade around the board and end up with something like 3 2nds, 3 3rds, and again a couple 1's and twos next year. (not saying I agree with it jsut thats what I expect) Thoughts? Mbelieu (sp?) I would especially lilke to hear your take on the statement that the talent from late first to mid 3rd is pretty comparable.
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]

    Yeah I agree

    they could really nail 6 picks in the middle 3 rounds this year though, just gotta make sure they find the right players for once, not 50% hit 50% miss
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    In Response to Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks:
    [QUOTE]One's thing's for certain we will get no impact players on defense from the draft. We never do. And Bill is too cheap to pay the going rate for good free agents (even our own). In the meantime we have one of the worst defenses in the league- which should surprise no one given the "value" strategy employed by Bill. Let's play a game:Name 6 impact players Bill Belichick has drafted since he got here: 1) Asante Samuel. Late round pick. Good route jumper. Bad cover corner and no clutch gene. Maybe there was a reason he went in the fourth, behind Eugene Wilson. 2) Vince Wilfork. The best player on defense and hands down Bill's best ever defensive draft pick. Not a franchise player. But he's a legit All Pro. But here's the important part: Mid first round pick. I know, wacky concept: you can actually get talent in round one instead of training camp fodder that will gone in 6-24 months. It seems like Bill would be smart enough to figure this out. 3) Jarrod Mayo. Solid player. Second best player on this defense. Not exactly the superstar/franchise player that you would hope to draft when picking at 7 But much better than the second and third round jags Bill keeps trading for 4) Richard Seymour. Little bit of a dog and a bit overrated. But he was a perennial Pro Bowler and one of Bill's first picks. I don't think he had the cache or the stones to trade that pick. Today, if he had the 5th pick in the draft he'd probably trade it for two JAGs that he would cut in year two or three. 5) Devin McCourty. I mention him because his rookie year was phenomenal. People were comparing him to Revis. Unfortunately his second year was as bad as his first year was good. The jury's still out on him. I still think he was playing hurt last year. It's the only logical explanation for such a dropoff. But even if he is a bust at least Bill took a chance in round one. I don't have a problem with doing that instead of just flat out wasting picks. 6) Here's the depressing part. There is no number six. Over a decade of drafting and I can't think of half a dozen impact players drafted by our GM thanks to his idiotic value system. He hasn't done a thing defensively since he signed Rodney and got Vrabel. That's why our defense is in such dire straights. There are certain positions that you have to "overpay" for on defense. He seems to get this on offense. Brady is overpaid and Mankins is grossly, obscenely overpaid. Because that's what the market was. But on defense. Nobody. Even a guy like Andre Carter, who we desperately needed and could afford, we let walk. To the Bills. And let me tell you, everybody around here is obsessed with the Jets and that's crazy. They are the Jets. They are a joke. They aren't a threat to anybody. But the Bills with Williams and Carter are shaping up to be exactly the type of team that always gives the Patriots fits. If you can get to Brady you don't need an offense. The double whammy here is that the Bills have an explosive offense. And we handed them Carter on a silver platter to help them beat us. Beautiful. It took me a while to learn my lesson. But I'm not going anywhere near the draft this year. I'll just check the next day to see how hard Bill s.c.r.e.w.e.d us. He has sucked every last drop of fun out the draft.  He will flip the two first rounders for future picks and then draft a couple of fullbacks a reciver and a another TE. Or something equally stupid. Maybe throw a WR, C and a kicker in there for good measure. In the meantime, our defense can't stop Eli frking Manning in a two minute drill. It' a a joke. What's even more insane is that noone seems to have a problem with it. Let's just cover the typical responses and save you guys some time. You're an idiot. This team is a perennial playoff contender. Most teams and fans would be greatful to have that kind of success you ungrateful doody head. You're a troll. You must be a Jets fan. Why don't you go follow the Redskins. They spend plenty of money. I'm sorry if I left  off any of the canned responses from the Belichick cult. But some of us have a problem with consistently coming up short. I don't see being number two as an accomplishment. Or fielding a team year after year that isn't talented enough to win a title. I don't see the "genius" of continuing to do the same thing repeatedly when it is proven to not work. Bill is a terrific coach. But the GM thing is not working out. We are two season away form the 10th anniversary of our last title. Brady's window is closing and there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency. It's just getting really discouraging to watch the same garbage year after year.
    Posted by df5[/QUOTE]



    Sigh...here is a list of a few impact players that Bill Belichick the Gm has drafted or brought in via FA or trades:

    Tom Brady
    Richard Seymour
    Matt Light
    David Patten
    Stephen Neal
    Anthony Pleasant
    Larry Izzo
    Mike Vrabel
    Terrell Buckley
    Antowain Smith
    Joe Andruzzi
    Mike Compton
    Greg Randall
    Bobby Hamilton
    Ty Warren
    Eugene Wilson
    Asante Samuel
    Dan Koppen
    Deion Branch
    David Givens
    Jarvis Green
    Roman Phifer
    Rodney Harrison
    Corey Dillon
    Ted Washington
    Vince Wilfork
    Tyrone Poole
    Jermaine Wiggins
    Randy Moss
    Wes Welker
    Donte Stalworth
    Jabar Gaffney
    Laurence Maroney
    BJGE
    Sammy Morris
    Danny Woodhead
    Rob Gronkowski
    Aaron Hernandez
    Sebastian Volmer
    Nate Solder
    Brian Waters
    Kyle Love
    Leigh Bodden(1 very good year)
    Brandon Merriweather
    Devon Mccourty
    Kyle Arrington
    Jarod Mayo
    Brandon Spikes
    Rob Ninkovic
    Andre Carter
    Mark Anderson
    Big Gerrard Warren


    But, maybe your right The Gm thing isn't working out because you say so.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    In Response to Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks : Sigh...here is a list of a few impact players that Bill Belichick the Gm has drafted or brought in via FA or trades: Tom Brady Richard Seymour Matt Light David Patten Stephen Neal Anthony Pleasant Larry Izzo Mike Vrabel Terrell Buckley Antowain Smith Joe Andruzzi Mike Compton Greg Randall Bobby Hamilton Ty Warren Eugene Wilson Asante Samuel Dan Koppen Deion Branch David Givens Jarvis Green Roman Phifer Rodney Harrison Corey Dillon Ted Washington Vince Wilfork Tyrone Poole Jermaine Wiggins Randy Moss Wes Welker Donte Stalworth Jabar Gaffney Laurence Maroney BJGE Sammy Morris Danny Woodhead Rob Gronkowski Aaron Hernandez Sebastian Volmer Nate Solder Brian Waters Kyle Love Leigh Bodden(1 very good year) Brandon Merriweather Devon Mccourty Kyle Arrington Jarod Mayo Brandon Spikes Rob Ninkovic Andre Carter Mark Anderson Big Gerrard Warren But, maybe your right The Gm thing isn't working out because you say so.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE

    +1....Nice list

    Many people on this list are UDFA's.....So many naive people on this board..  : (
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    Good call Rocky. Acquiring undrafted talent is a sure sign of sound GM work and I forgot to mention that. I mean my God we are talking about Bill Belichick, son of Steve Belichick who was widely regarded as one of the best college football scouts...ever.

    Does anybody here recognize the correlation of scouting and being a good GM? Did anybody here read "The art of coaching"?? Bill Belichick was breaking down film as a child. He is a great GM because he is the best at recognizing talent and managing the salary cap. An aspect that GM's of yesteryear did not have to worry about!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    The first two picks should be used on best pass rusher available.

    But I agree - he will trade down and we will have a soft defense again next year.  the kind of defense that no one fears and can't win championships.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from sfpat. Show sfpat's posts

    Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks

    In Response to Re: Prepare yourself now, BB wont use either of his 1st round picks:
    [QUOTE]One's thing's for certain we will get no impact players on defense from the draft. We never do. And Bill is too cheap to pay the going rate for good free agents (even our own). In the meantime we have one of the worst defenses in the league- which should surprise no one given the "value" strategy employed by Bill. Let's play a game:Name 6 impact players Bill Belichick has drafted since he got here: 1) Asante Samuel. Late round pick. Good route jumper. Bad cover corner and no clutch gene. Maybe there was a reason he went in the fourth, behind Eugene Wilson. 2) Vince Wilfork. The best player on defense and hands down Bill's best ever defensive draft pick. Not a franchise player. But he's a legit All Pro. But here's the important part: Mid first round pick. I know, wacky concept: you can actually get talent in round one instead of training camp fodder that will gone in 6-24 months. It seems like Bill would be smart enough to figure this out. 3) Jarrod Mayo. Solid player. Second best player on this defense. Not exactly the superstar/franchise player that you would hope to draft when picking at 7 But much better than the second and third round jags Bill keeps trading for 4) Richard Seymour. Little bit of a dog and a bit overrated. But he was a perennial Pro Bowler and one of Bill's first picks. I don't think he had the cache or the stones to trade that pick. Today, if he had the 5th pick in the draft he'd probably trade it for two JAGs that he would cut in year two or three. 5) Devin McCourty. I mention him because his rookie year was phenomenal. People were comparing him to Revis. Unfortunately his second year was as bad as his first year was good. The jury's still out on him. I still think he was playing hurt last year. It's the only logical explanation for such a dropoff. But even if he is a bust at least Bill took a chance in round one. I don't have a problem with doing that instead of just flat out wasting picks. 6) Here's the depressing part. There is no number six. Over a decade of drafting and I can't think of half a dozen impact players drafted by our GM thanks to his idiotic value system. He hasn't done a thing defensively since he signed Rodney and got Vrabel. That's why our defense is in such dire straights. There are certain positions that you have to "overpay" for on defense. He seems to get this on offense. Brady is overpaid and Mankins is grossly, obscenely overpaid. Because that's what the market was. But on defense. Nobody. Even a guy like Andre Carter, who we desperately needed and could afford, we let walk. To the Bills. And let me tell you, everybody around here is obsessed with the Jets and that's crazy. They are the Jets. They are a joke. They aren't a threat to anybody. But the Bills with Williams and Carter are shaping up to be exactly the type of team that always gives the Patriots fits. If you can get to Brady you don't need an offense. The double whammy here is that the Bills have an explosive offense. And we handed them Carter on a silver platter to help them beat us. Beautiful. It took me a while to learn my lesson. But I'm not going anywhere near the draft this year. I'll just check the next day to see how hard Bill s.c.r.e.w.e.d us. He has sucked every last drop of fun out the draft.  He will flip the two first rounders for future picks and then draft a couple of fullbacks a reciver and a another TE. Or something equally stupid. Maybe throw a WR, C and a kicker in there for good measure. In the meantime, our defense can't stop Eli frking Manning in a two minute drill. It' a a joke. What's even more insane is that noone seems to have a problem with it. Let's just cover the typical responses and save you guys some time. You're an idiot. This team is a perennial playoff contender. Most teams and fans would be greatful to have that kind of success you ungrateful doody head. You're a troll. You must be a Jets fan. Why don't you go follow the Redskins. They spend plenty of money. I'm sorry if I left  off any of the canned responses from the Belichick cult. But some of us have a problem with consistently coming up short. I don't see being number two as an accomplishment. Or fielding a team year after year that isn't talented enough to win a title. I don't see the "genius" of continuing to do the same thing repeatedly when it is proven to not work. Bill is a terrific coach. But the GM thing is not working out. We are two season away form the 10th anniversary of our last title. Brady's window is closing and there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency. It's just getting really discouraging to watch the same garbage year after year.
    Posted by df5[/QUOTE]


    One has to understand the mentality of some posters on this board.  If a BB draft pick isn't all-pro by the end of his rookie camp, then he's a bust.  By this definition, I believe you're correct.  Forget about wins and losses, it's Madden ratings that count.
     

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