Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    Good article by Christopher Price at Weei. He covers the adversity this team has gone through, and  how  most teams  would have struggled more so then the Pats. He portrays to "fans" who might not understand how depth based team building can help you over come the injury bug,and free agency, and how BB's team building approach has allowed him to keep this team competetive while other top teams in this league have struggled with similiar situations.  

    Giants 0-6 GB 3-2 Pitt 1-4 Houston 2-4 ATL 1-4 Baltimore 3-3   Top playoff teams with long time QB and HC combo's are sitting at 10 - 23, while imo none of them have gone through the adversity this Patriots team has.  

    N.E stands at 5-1 and while the defense has suffered serious injuries to the co-captains, the offense stands to get much stronger with Gronk coming back(underrated addition to the run game) and hopefully with Amendola and Vareen coming back strong at some point. This coupled with the development/ increased confidence with KT and Dobson, this offense stands to make big strides sooner then later.  

    Point being I don't think you can argue against BB's team building philosophy. Tired, old and simply untrue are the arguments of this team only being good because of coach, and QB. You can only compare the results to other great teams that have had longevity at the HC and QB postion and N.E is simply better then the rest.
     

    What is tipping point for 2013 Patriots?

     

    Thu, 10/17/2013 - 10:58am   

     

      3  Email 4 Comments

     

    FOXBORO -- For the Patriots, the challenges keep on coming.

     

    Bill Belichick was all smiles after Sunday's win over the Saints, but he faces a big challenge with all the injuries to the Patriots. (AP)

    Bill Belichick was all smiles after Sunday's win over the Saints, but he faces a big challenge with all the injuries to the Patriots. (AP)

    Through the first six games of the 2013 season, New England has been forged by series of events that would have deflated lesser teams. A mental toughness has defined a roster that has been forced to deal with a ton of turnover on the offensive side of the ball, particularly at wide receiver and tight end. Along the way, the team has managed to meet almost every challenge, winning five of its first six games. The Patriots are just one of five teams in the NFL with one loss or less, and are sitting in the driver’s seat in the AFC East.

    Now, they’ll face another test, as they go forward without two of their acknowledged defensive leaders for the rest of the regular season. Jerod Mayo was placed on injured reserve on Wednesday, joining Vince Wilfork on that list. To give you an idea of the impact of those moves, Brian McIntyre (of the absolutely indispensable Mac’s Football Blog) reported Wednesday that with the move of Mayo to injured reserve, it leaves the Patriots with an astounding $20.6 million in cap money on IR -- the most in the NFL by more than $4 million.

     

    The loss of those two defensive stalwarts -- as well as the uncertain futures of defensive lineman Tommy Kelly, wide receiver Danny Amendola, offensive lineman Dan Connolly and cornerback Aqib Talib because of health issues -- provides another challenge for this team going forward, one that starts this week against the Jets.

     

    “We’ve faced some different challenges,” acknowledged quarterback Tom Brady on Wednesday morning. “I think in the NFL, a lot of teams face challenges. It’s just really how you deal with them. We’ve lost some guys, dealt with some issues, like every other team. We’re handling them OK, we’re 5-1. It’s a decent start.”

     

    But when does it all become too much? For a team that’s faced its share of hardship when it comes to injury and personnel turnover, what is the tipping point? Many traditional NFL powers have hit that moment at some point over the course of the first quarter-plus of the season, and specifically, to Brady’s point, a lot of teams have faced challenges this year and have not handled them as well as the Patriots.

     

    In fact, a look around the league reveals several teams -- traditional powers who have worked hard to build a foundation of success over the last decade -- have really struggled in the face of adversity this year. The Giants, Steelers, Falcons, Packers and Texans have been some of the powers in the NFL over the last decade -- they account for five of the last 10 Super Bowl titles. But this season, for a variety of reasons, they have a combined record of 7-20. Their problems demonstrate just how difficult it is to be able to sustain success over an extended period of time, and just how quickly a team can go from being a Super Bowl contender to angling for a top-10 spot in the draft the following spring. 

     

    One thing that stands out is that while those five teams have been built through various methods, one of the bedrock philosophies in a quarterback-driven league has been a longstanding coach-quarterback relationship. But as we’ve seen, even the most rock-solid pairing between a coach and signal-caller is no guarantee of success. In New York, the Tom Coughlin-Eli Manning relationship dates back to 2004 and has resulted in a pair of Super Bowl wins, while the Pittsburgh duo of Mike Tomlin and Ben Roethlisberger began in 2007 and has resulted in a Super Bowl trophy. Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak have been together in Houston for the last five-plus seasons, and in Atlanta, Mike Smith and Matt Ryan took the Falcons to the NFC title game last year, while Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers have a Super Bowl title of their own.

     

    But now, all five teams have hit the skids. In New York the line has collapsed on both sides of the ball -- leaving Manning exposed -- while in Houston Schaub has struggled through the roughest stretch of his 10-year career. Meanwhile, the Steelers have suffered through a variety of poor personnel decisions and injuries, and the same is the case with the Falcons, whose sluggish start was compounded by the recent announcement that elite wide receiver Julio Jones would be lost of the year because of a foot injury. And while Rodgers is slinging the ball at a record pace, the Green Bay defense has let down the Packers.

     

    Could that sort of breakdown happen in New England? The Brady-Bill Belichick relationship is the longest current quarterback-coach pairing in the league, and history tells us that the Patriots have been consistent in their ability to steer clear of those sorts of speed bumps that other teams have hit over the years. With the exception of 2008, when Brady went down with a knee injury in the opener and the team missed the postseason, the Patriots have made the playoffs every year. (And even though they missed out in 2008, Matt Cassel was able to lead them to an 11-5 finish thanks in large part to an above-average defense and an exceptionally soft schedule.)

     

    If Brady needs some inspiration for fighting through a rash of injuries, finding ways to incorporate new personnel into the lineup and building mental toughness as the year goes on, he can look back to the 2003 team for a template. That season, the Patriots lost starting linebacker Rosevelt Colvin, starting offensive linemen Mike Compton and Damien Woody and starting wide receiver David Patten relatively early in the year with season-ending injuries. The group fought its way through a rocky start -- one that included the loss of favored veteran Lawyer Milloy -- and a 2-2 beginning, one that included the infamous quote from ESPN analyst Tom Jackson, “They hate their coach.” And that year, New England relied on a rookie class as never before, and youngsters like Asante Samuel, Eugene Wilson, Dan Koppen and Ty Warren all played significant minutes after being asked to step into the starting lineup because of injuries to incumbents. In the end, that team managed to persevere throughout the season on the way to a Super Bowl title.

    Ten years later, the current New England team is being asked to replicate that mental toughness, battle through another series of similar challenges, and push back the same tipping point. Whether or not the Patriots can rise to the challenge ultimately will determine their legacy.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Cyberknot. Show Cyberknot's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    Good article. Thanks for posting.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    In response to Cyberknot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good article. Thanks for posting.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes thanks

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.


    Thanks for posting... some insightful stuff.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    I believe this is what the positive Paul's have been saying vs the negative Nancy'sBB has done a terrific job from 1-53 plus the PS. there is no game that they cannot win. Of all the traditional powers, only Balt may be able to stay in the hunt. But they may have messed up by letting Bolden go.

    when BB says that he has confidence in everyone he puts on the field to do the job, I believe him

    In political terms BB isn't implementing obamacare - lol

    who knows what December will bring in health to any team

    I think Talib on D and TB on O are the 2 must haves to win the SB. although we seem to have more options right now at db

    For me, I am still not sure that PM is going to be good in the cold. And den has yet to have any real injuries, as the same with Cinc and kc (although kc had more than their share last year)

    Seat is ok on the road and SF is imploding, I really don't know what team is going to come out of the NFC. and those 2 would be playing in NYC in February.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I believe this is what the positive Paul's have been saying vs the negative Nancy'sBB has done a terrific job from 1-53 plus the PS. there is no game that they cannot win. Of all the traditional powers, only Balt may be able to stay in the hunt. But they may have messed up by letting Bolden go.

    when BB says that he has confidence in everyone he puts on the field to do the job, I believe him

    In political terms BB isn't implementing obamacare - lol

    who knows what December will bring in health to any team

    I think Talib on D and TB on O are the 2 must haves to win the SB. although we seem to have more options right now at db

    For me, I am still not sure that PM is going to be good in the cold. And den has yet to have any real injuries, as the same with Cinc and kc (although kc had more than their share last year)

    Seat is ok on the road and SF is imploding, I really don't know what team is going to come out of the NFC. and those 2 would be playing in NYC in February.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I think if Seattle secures home field advantage then they are in the Super Bowl. I don't see anybody going into Seattle and winning a playoff game.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I believe this is what the positive Paul's have been saying vs the negative Nancy'sBB has done a terrific job from 1-53 plus the PS. there is no game that they cannot win. Of all the traditional powers, only Balt may be able to stay in the hunt. But they may have messed up by letting Bolden go.

    when BB says that he has confidence in everyone he puts on the field to do the job, I believe him

    In political terms BB isn't implementing obamacare - lol

    who knows what December will bring in health to any team

    I think Talib on D and TB on O are the 2 must haves to win the SB. although we seem to have more options right now at db

    For me, I am still not sure that PM is going to be good in the cold. And den has yet to have any real injuries, as the same with Cinc and kc (although kc had more than their share last year)

    Seat is ok on the road and SF is imploding, I really don't know what team is going to come out of the NFC. and those 2 would be playing in NYC in February.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I think if Seattle secures home field advantage then they are in the Super Bowl. I don't see anybody going into Seattle and winning a playoff game.

    [/QUOTE]

    Probably right

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    Good article.  Thanks for posting it.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]



    I think if Seattle secures home field advantage then they are in the Super Bowl. I don't see anybody going into Seattle and winning a playoff game.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree.  Thank goodness the SuperBowl isn't there.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    Great article that states what is patently obvious to most rational Pat's fans.  

    It's not just the draft picks BB has chosen, a fair share of winners, it's not the numerous extra picks that BB had provided, too many to mention, it's not only the free agents that BB has lured here, many who have contributed to winning teams, it's not the numerous undrafted free agents that BB never seems to get credit for from the haters... it's the combination of all of the above along with his frugal ways, providing us cap flexibility which has us in the playoffs and Super Bowl hunt EVERY YEAR for over a decade.

    GM's do more than make draft choices... you are what your record says you are, Bill Belichick is the smartest guy in the room.  Sorry if you are a "fan" and disagree, the majority of football media and experts agree with us "homers."

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    Nice article, but I think the one little flaw in it is where it compares those teams (that are doing poorly) to this team (who has a far superior coach and QB). The only quarterback from that list I could put on par with Brady is Rodgers and he has done well...his team is winning. Matt Schaub is a joke who has been benched...Manning is NOT elite, Matt Ryan is so overrated that it's laughable.

    What coach on those teams is as good as Belichick? Put Brady and Belichick on the Texans and they win the Super Bowl the last two seasons. Put them on the Cowboys and we never hear about the Seahawks, 49ers, Saints, Packers, Skins. I think that is a fact.

    I'm not saying Bill is a terrible GM, I'm saying he is no better/no worse than anybody else. As a coach? No one can touch him.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    Nice article, but I think the one little flaw in it is where it compares those teams (that are doing poorly) to this team (who has a far superior coach and QB). The only quarterback from that list I could put on par with Brady is Rodgers and he has done well...his team is winning.



    So all of those QB's were top five QBs until they weren't, all that proves is that football is a team sport.  

    Currently Tom Brady is the 17th best QB in the NFL in yards, 11th in TDs, and has a 79 QB rating, is he the 17th best QB, are there 16 guys you would take ahead of him if you were choosing a team for this season?

    But you're right, let's not compare the poor teams to the Patriots, how many teams have been as successful over the last decade as the Patriots?

    Definitive answer... none.

    Case closed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Nice article, but I think the one little flaw in it is where it compares those teams (that are doing poorly) to this team (who has a far superior coach and QB). The only quarterback from that list I could put on par with Brady is Rodgers and he has done well...his team is winning. Matt Schaub is a joke who has been benched...Manning is NOT elite, Matt Ryan is so overrated that it's laughable.

    What coach on those teams is as good as Belichick? Put Brady and Belichick on the Texans and they win the Super Bowl the last two seasons. Put them on the Cowboys and we never hear about the Seahawks, 49ers, Saints, Packers, Skins. I think that is a fact.

    I'm not saying Bill is a terrible GM, I'm saying he is no better/no worse than anybody else. As a coach? No one can touch him.

    [/QUOTE]

    The problem is some here don't give him enough credit and some go over the top in their evaluation of his GM skills.

    The bottom line is  being a GM involves more than just drafting. Being a GM requires having the ability to build a 53 man roster using many tools (not just the draft) in a fluid situation. I think many times when many of us here evaluate everything in a vacuum when in reality nothing he does is done in a Vacuum.

    In my opinion he may not be the best GM in the league but I think he is in the top 5 GM's in the league based on everything that goes into team building and planning for the future.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from GO47. Show GO47's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Nice article, but I think the one little flaw in it is where it compares those teams (that are doing poorly) to this team (who has a far superior coach and QB). The only quarterback from that list I could put on par with Brady is Rodgers and he has done well...his team is winning. Matt Schaub is a joke who has been benched...Manning is NOT elite, Matt Ryan is so overrated that it's laughable.

    What coach on those teams is as good as Belichick? Put Brady and Belichick on the Texans and they win the Super Bowl the last two seasons. Put them on the Cowboys and we never hear about the Seahawks, 49ers, Saints, Packers, Skins. I think that is a fact.

    I'm not saying Bill is a terrible GM, I'm saying he is no better/no worse than anybody else. As a coach? No one can touch him.

    [/QUOTE]

    The problem is some here don't give him enough credit and some go over the top in their evaluation of his GM skills.

    The bottom line is  being a GM involves more than just drafting. Being a GM requires having the ability to build a 53 man roster using many tools (not just the draft) in a fluid situation. I think many times when many of us here evaluate everything in a vacuum when in reality nothing he does is done in a Vacuum.

    In my opinion he may not be the best GM in the league but I think he is in the top 5 GM's in the league based on everything that goes into team building and planning for the future.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree. Since 2001 the Patriots have finished 2nd in the division twice. They've finished in first place 10 times. Not bad for a team that always drafts near the end of the 1st round each year.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    Belichick knows how to put together a great group of complementary players and adapt his schemes as necessary to suit the talent he has.  This is what makes the team so competitive year after year. It's Belichick's understanding of players' individual skills and weaknesses and his flexibility and creativity in adjusting his schemes and player mix to maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses at both the individual and team levels. 

    Still, raw talent makes a difference in the toughest games, and sometimes the team hasn't quite had the quality of talent across all positions it needs to beat the toughest opponents.  I love Belichick's approach, but that doesn't mean it also doesn't have its downside.  I agree with jri37 (always a voice of reason) that BB is one of the top GMs in the league now, and maybe ever.  At the same time, it's impossible not to acknowledge that despite all the regular season success, some of his recent teams have not been very competitive in the playoffs and until they show they can still win in the postseason it's hard to say Belichick is unreservedly the best GM there is. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from quinzpatsfan. Show quinzpatsfan's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.


    Wow, so we 20 mil on IR and around 9mil lost hernz and another 9mil in Gronk that hasn't played yet so maybe I"m wrong but that like 38mil of roster not playing in first 6 games and were 5-1 (granted mayo and vince played in some games). 

    That's impressive and even better an indication of the young talent on this team which paints a bright future!!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    Well, yeah. BB obviously hasn't done a "bad" job at bringing talent in, despite what some people here say. 

    I will say the spread of injuries, though, has been manageable because it hasn't hit in the spots where BB has struggled drafting: CB and S.

    IF Aquib Talib and not Wilfork had been injured in game one ... Ne wouldn't be 5-1.

    At this point, if not Brady, then Talib, is MVP. And after him, there is Dennard, but Arrington outside would be a disaster long term. 

    NE can lose a LBer because they have depth. They can lose a standout defensive lineman, because they have depth. Both of these instances of depth are courtesy of the draft. 

    Without knowing how good Logan Ryan is, NE doesn't have good depth at corner. They have really good starters, and after that it's the same group that gave up record passing yardage the last few seasons.

    As far as NY, Pitt, etc? Yeah ... lots of mistakes. Pitt is in the middle of a perfect storm. They allowed their guys to get old, all at the same time. Cameron Heyward was a bust. The James Harrison contract was too long and for too much money, they should have actually tried to pull a BB and traded him off when his value was high. Now he is playing spot duty in Cincy and Pitt is still paying some of his deal. And that doesn't even discuss how they neglected their offensive line which is the key. It has really turned from one of the NFLs best to one of the worst over night. All of their money is sunk into a few defenders who are too old to play at a very high level. Consider this.... Ike Taylor. Right now Pitt is servicing a $9 million dollar cap figure for this CB.  Next year Antonio Brown will accelerate to a $9 mil cap figure, and Troy will be at $11 mil at age 33-34. 

    The only offensive lineman they have significant costs in is Levi Brown, who they had to trade for, at $5 million. 

    Pittsburgh lost their way. They built their team from the inside out, using money on defensive and offensive lineman, and adding a piece here and there. Now they seem to spend it on hood ornaments like solid zone corners who hit like safeties, and WRs who run deep routes. Nevermind who is going to block or rush the passer. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    I know everybody here loves to play armchair GM and critique every move made including myself. 

    The bottom line is from talent evaluion all the way through contract signings I don't think any of us realize just how difficult it is to build a 53 man roster in the salry cap era. Every single multiple year signing has ripple effects throught the length of the contract and the effect it has on rosters in future years. All Gm's walk a tightrope in building teams making sure they have enough players signed in future years while still having enough room within the cap to have a competitive team. 

    Does BB make mistakes? Absolutely. He has made his share in the draft and FA signings but so do All Gm's.

    I think BB strength as a GM is his ability to make sure he is competing for a title year in and year out. I think if you look at some franchises that are down this year I think the difference is they put more money into their frontline talent and do not have the adequate depth to survive injuries. The NFL is a war of attrition and BB does a great job in making sure that they identify secondary roster players that fit their system so they can survive injuries better than most teams.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    I think some of us have a gripe about not winning a Super Bowl. We are looking for somewhere to place blame. We are all guilty and it is our right as fans to analyze, criticize and really nit pick at this team as they are a passion for us. Nothing wrong with that as we are Patriots fans and our team has won more Super Bowls, more playoff games, and more regular season games then any team in the league since BB became our coach...and GM.

    Now for the point of debate, I will call a few of you out.

    Prolate it sounds like your gripe has more to do with BB the coach(and his staff) then BB the GM. When you say things like, "BB is one of the top GMs in the league now, and maybe ever.  At the same time, it's impossible not to acknowledge that despite all the regular season success, some of his recent teams have not been very competitive in the playoffs" 

    I would point to his young and inexperienced group of coaches inability to get young and inexperienced players mentally tough enough to handle the moment. To me it is perfectly normal for that to happen, as our team has been forced to undergo a learning curve while we've had major turnover on the defense and the coaching staff.

    If our GM is tops in the league and our team wins 12 games a year but loses close games in the playoffs, then we are obviously talented. It is not easy to win 11 and 12 games in this league. Our team just wasn't ready to win big games. The players BB the GM have acquired fit the scheme that BB the coach is asking for. It would be difficult for them not to be on the same page as they are of course the same freakin person.

     

    And Hurtl, my dark friend. Put Brady on the cowboys or the Texans and they win the Super Bowl? You are perhaps more misguided then I originally believed. I got one for ya, put Brady and BB the coach on the Niners, Seahawks, Texans, Cowboys, Falcons, Saints, Broncos, Giants, Ravens, jets in 2010, Broncos last year, oh, oh, I've got another one, the Chiefs this year, and they all win the Super Bowl. Just not on the Patriots becasue all of those teams have way better GM's then the Patriots.

    Anyway, our team is in the middle of another major rebuild on one side of the ball, a slew of injuries to the defense, another year of wear and tear on Brady's arm, and we are 5-1 and in position to be 7-2 by the bye week(assuming an annual loss to the Jets or Dolphins the next 2 weeks) possibly 8-1. This is a team sport as the article above accurately portrays to us. It is not just about your QB, or your coach, or QB coach longevity, it is not about how much talent you acquire, it is about building a team, having depth, and acquiring players who not only fit your scheme but will show mental toughness on the biggest stage.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think some of us have a gripe about not winning a Super Bowl. We are looking for somewhere to place blame. We are all guilty and it is our right as fans to analyze, criticize and really nit pick at this team as they are a passion for us. Nothing wrong with that as we are Patriots fans and our team has won more Super Bowls, more playoff games, and more regular season games then any team in the league since BB became our coach...and GM.

    Now for the point of debate, I will call a few of you out.

    Prolate it sounds like your gripe has more to do with BB the coach(and his staff) then BB the GM. When you say things like, "BB is one of the top GMs in the league now, and maybe ever.  At the same time, it's impossible not to acknowledge that despite all the regular season success, some of his recent teams have not been very competitive in the playoffs" 

    I would point to his young and inexperienced group of coaches inability to get young and inexperienced players mentally tough enough to handle the moment. To me it is perfectly normal for that to happen, as our team has been forced to undergo a learning curve while we've had major turnover on the defense and the coaching staff.

    If our GM is tops in the league and our team wins 12 games a year but loses close games in the playoffs, then we are obviously talented. It is not easy to win 11 and 12 games in this league. Our team just wasn't ready to win big games. The players BB the GM have acquired fit the scheme that BB the coach is asking for. It would be difficult for them not to be on the same page as they are of course the same freakin person.

     

    And Hurtl, my dark friend. Put Brady on the cowboys or the Texans and they win the Super Bowl? You are perhaps more misguided then I originally believed. I got one for ya, put Brady and BB the coach on the Niners, Seahawks, Texans, Cowboys, Falcons, Saints, Broncos, Giants, Ravens, jets in 2010, Broncos last year, oh, oh, I've got another one, the Chiefs this year, and they all win the Super Bowl. Just not on the Patriots becasue all of those teams have way better GM's then the Patriots.

    Anyway, our team is in the middle of another major rebuild on one side of the ball, a slew of injuries to the defense, another year of wear and tear on Brady's arm, and we are 5-1 and in position to be 7-2 by the bye week(assuming an annual loss to the Jets or Dolphins the next 2 weeks) possibly 8-1. This is a team sport as the article above accurately portrays to us. It is not just about your QB, or your coach, or QB coach longevity, it is not about how much talent you acquire, it is about building a team, having depth, and acquiring players who not only fit your scheme but will show mental toughness on the biggest stage.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, I think Brady on the Cowboys may have. 

    The issue here is a misunderstanding about greatness. 

    Derek Jeter (who I hate) once said the best teams don't win a championship every season, they just compete for them every season. 

    The same goes for players and coaches and GMs. You don't win every battle, and you don't have perfect years in the front office every season. 

    In the end, if you keep making mostly the right decisions, you will be in it every season you can be. 

    Tony is sort of unfairly malinged for his playoff performances. I think a lot of this has to do with the botched hold in 06. That the Cowboys have had great teams that were a win away is nothing. It's his in season performance that is up and down. I mean he has had some pretty all world talent, but is really a second tier performer despite that. Tony Romo ruins some games because he is erratic. I mean, he's had two seasons with 19 picks. 

    Tony Romo blew enough games last season that he could have had a playoff spot with them. 

    I'm sure an argument that BB could get a LOT more out of a defense with Demarcus Ware is valid as well. The last time he had a pass rusher of that rare ilk, it was LT and he helped build a dynasty around him.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think some of us have a gripe about not winning a Super Bowl. We are looking for somewhere to place blame. We are all guilty and it is our right as fans to analyze, criticize and really nit pick at this team as they are a passion for us. Nothing wrong with that as we are Patriots fans and our team has won more Super Bowls, more playoff games, and more regular season games then any team in the league since BB became our coach...and GM.

    Now for the point of debate, I will call a few of you out.

    Prolate it sounds like your gripe has more to do with BB the coach(and his staff) then BB the GM. When you say things like, "BB is one of the top GMs in the league now, and maybe ever.  At the same time, it's impossible not to acknowledge that despite all the regular season success, some of his recent teams have not been very competitive in the playoffs" 

    I would point to his young and inexperienced group of coaches inability to get young and inexperienced players mentally tough enough to handle the moment. To me it is perfectly normal for that to happen, as our team has been forced to undergo a learning curve while we've had major turnover on the defense and the coaching staff.

    If our GM is tops in the league and our team wins 12 games a year but loses close games in the playoffs, then we are obviously talented. It is not easy to win 11 and 12 games in this league. Our team just wasn't ready to win big games. The players BB the GM have acquired fit the scheme that BB the coach is asking for. It would be difficult for them not to be on the same page as they are of course the same freakin person.

     

    And Hurtl, my dark friend. Put Brady on the cowboys or the Texans and they win the Super Bowl? You are perhaps more misguided then I originally believed. I got one for ya, put Brady and BB the coach on the Niners, Seahawks, Texans, Cowboys, Falcons, Saints, Broncos, Giants, Ravens, jets in 2010, Broncos last year, oh, oh, I've got another one, the Chiefs this year, and they all win the Super Bowl. Just not on the Patriots becasue all of those teams have way better GM's then the Patriots.

    Anyway, our team is in the middle of another major rebuild on one side of the ball, a slew of injuries to the defense, another year of wear and tear on Brady's arm, and we are 5-1 and in position to be 7-2 by the bye week(assuming an annual loss to the Jets or Dolphins the next 2 weeks) possibly 8-1. This is a team sport as the article above accurately portrays to us. It is not just about your QB, or your coach, or QB coach longevity, it is not about how much talent you acquire, it is about building a team, having depth, and acquiring players who not only fit your scheme but will show mental toughness on the biggest stage.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Not sure where you're going with this? Because what you are saying (by the way) is that having Brady on most teams would result in a Super Bowl - and I kind of agree - which would lend to the "Belichick is no better than anyone else at GM" point of view. So if you're just being sarcastic...I get it, but in reality what you said is likely true as well.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SLGDEV. Show SLGDEV's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I believe this is what the positive Paul's have been saying vs the negative Nancy'sBB has done a terrific job from 1-53 plus the PS. there is no game that they cannot win. Of all the traditional powers, only Balt may be able to stay in the hunt. But they may have messed up by letting Bolden go.

    when BB says that he has confidence in everyone he puts on the field to do the job, I believe him

    In political terms BB isn't implementing obamacare - lol

    who knows what December will bring in health to any team

    I think Talib on D and TB on O are the 2 must haves to win the SB. although we seem to have more options right now at db

    For me, I am still not sure that PM is going to be good in the cold. And den has yet to have any real injuries, as the same with Cinc and kc (although kc had more than their share last year)

    Seat is ok on the road and SF is imploding, I really don't know what team is going to come out of the NFC. and those 2 would be playing in NYC in February.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I think if Seattle secures home field advantage then they are in the Super Bowl. I don't see anybody going into Seattle and winning a playoff game.

    [/QUOTE]


    ....any given Sunday.  A couple og years ago, did anyone see 8-8 Seatle knocking Atlanta out of the playoffs?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think some of us have a gripe about not winning a Super Bowl. We are looking for somewhere to place blame. We are all guilty and it is our right as fans to analyze, criticize and really nit pick at this team as they are a passion for us. Nothing wrong with that as we are Patriots fans and our team has won more Super Bowls, more playoff games, and more regular season games then any team in the league since BB became our coach...and GM.

    Now for the point of debate, I will call a few of you out.

    Prolate it sounds like your gripe has more to do with BB the coach(and his staff) then BB the GM. When you say things like, "BB is one of the top GMs in the league now, and maybe ever.  At the same time, it's impossible not to acknowledge that despite all the regular season success, some of his recent teams have not been very competitive in the playoffs" 

    I would point to his young and inexperienced group of coaches inability to get young and inexperienced players mentally tough enough to handle the moment. To me it is perfectly normal for that to happen, as our team has been forced to undergo a learning curve while we've had major turnover on the defense and the coaching staff.

    If our GM is tops in the league and our team wins 12 games a year but loses close games in the playoffs, then we are obviously talented. It is not easy to win 11 and 12 games in this league. Our team just wasn't ready to win big games. The players BB the GM have acquired fit the scheme that BB the coach is asking for. It would be difficult for them not to be on the same page as they are of course the same freakin person.

     

    And Hurtl, my dark friend. Put Brady on the cowboys or the Texans and they win the Super Bowl? You are perhaps more misguided then I originally believed. I got one for ya, put Brady and BB the coach on the Niners, Seahawks, Texans, Cowboys, Falcons, Saints, Broncos, Giants, Ravens, jets in 2010, Broncos last year, oh, oh, I've got another one, the Chiefs this year, and they all win the Super Bowl. Just not on the Patriots becasue all of those teams have way better GM's then the Patriots.

    Anyway, our team is in the middle of another major rebuild on one side of the ball, a slew of injuries to the defense, another year of wear and tear on Brady's arm, and we are 5-1 and in position to be 7-2 by the bye week(assuming an annual loss to the Jets or Dolphins the next 2 weeks) possibly 8-1. This is a team sport as the article above accurately portrays to us. It is not just about your QB, or your coach, or QB coach longevity, it is not about how much talent you acquire, it is about building a team, having depth, and acquiring players who not only fit your scheme but will show mental toughness on the biggest stage.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Not sure where you're going with this? Because what you are saying (by the way) is that having Brady on most teams would result in a Super Bowl - and I kind of agree - which would lend to the "Belichick is no better than anyone else at GM" point of view. So if you're just being sarcastic...I get it, but in reality what you said is likely true as well.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think is part of the misconception. No player or coach can guarantee a SB win. There are too many variables.

    But stop and think about how many teams might contend. 

    LEt's go back to Romo. 

    He's never led a last minute TD drive. He's had 4th Q GWDs, but not a last minute one. 

    In fact, Brady has done that to him. In 2011 Romo threw a pick that gave NE the ball. In less than 2 minutes, TB had converted the opportunity into 7 game winning points. 

    In fact, it was the last time Brady threw a TD to win a game with less than a minute (mark this, it's actually a rare feat, something people like Brady, Marino, Manning, et al have all only done a few times). 

    Or last week can suffice. Brady played a good game. He doesn't get nearly enough credit for the two TD drives because they were finished by runs, but were drives that capped huge plays by Brady. At any rate ... last second TD pass ftw. 

    Romo? He threw a pick in the last second that basically handed Manning three points. Manning didn't even have to do anything, he got the ball on the 24. They ran the clock out. They kicked a FG. 

    Romo converted a win probability of . 9 into 0.0 in one play. All he would have needed to do was not turn the ball over. If he even just stands pat, Dallas could have likely won that game. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think some of us have a gripe about not winning a Super Bowl. We are looking for somewhere to place blame. We are all guilty and it is our right as fans to analyze, criticize and really nit pick at this team as they are a passion for us. Nothing wrong with that as we are Patriots fans and our team has won more Super Bowls, more playoff games, and more regular season games then any team in the league since BB became our coach...and GM.

    Now for the point of debate, I will call a few of you out.

    Prolate it sounds like your gripe has more to do with BB the coach(and his staff) then BB the GM. When you say things like, "BB is one of the top GMs in the league now, and maybe ever.  At the same time, it's impossible not to acknowledge that despite all the regular season success, some of his recent teams have not been very competitive in the playoffs" 

    I would point to his young and inexperienced group of coaches inability to get young and inexperienced players mentally tough enough to handle the moment. To me it is perfectly normal for that to happen, as our team has been forced to undergo a learning curve while we've had major turnover on the defense and the coaching staff.

    If our GM is tops in the league and our team wins 12 games a year but loses close games in the playoffs, then we are obviously talented. It is not easy to win 11 and 12 games in this league. Our team just wasn't ready to win big games. The players BB the GM have acquired fit the scheme that BB the coach is asking for. It would be difficult for them not to be on the same page as they are of course the same freakin person.

     

    And Hurtl, my dark friend. Put Brady on the cowboys or the Texans and they win the Super Bowl? You are perhaps more misguided then I originally believed. I got one for ya, put Brady and BB the coach on the Niners, Seahawks, Texans, Cowboys, Falcons, Saints, Broncos, Giants, Ravens, jets in 2010, Broncos last year, oh, oh, I've got another one, the Chiefs this year, and they all win the Super Bowl. Just not on the Patriots becasue all of those teams have way better GM's then the Patriots.

    Anyway, our team is in the middle of another major rebuild on one side of the ball, a slew of injuries to the defense, another year of wear and tear on Brady's arm, and we are 5-1 and in position to be 7-2 by the bye week(assuming an annual loss to the Jets or Dolphins the next 2 weeks) possibly 8-1. This is a team sport as the article above accurately portrays to us. It is not just about your QB, or your coach, or QB coach longevity, it is not about how much talent you acquire, it is about building a team, having depth, and acquiring players who not only fit your scheme but will show mental toughness on the biggest stage.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Not sure where you're going with this? Because what you are saying (by the way) is that having Brady on most teams would result in a Super Bowl - and I kind of agree - which would lend to the "Belichick is no better than anyone else at GM" point of view. So if you're just being sarcastic...I get it, but in reality what you said is likely true as well.

    [/QUOTE]


    I was being sarcastic but I guess not sarcastic enough? You really think BB and Brady would have better results on the teams I mentioned above? Let me guess, swimming in 90 degree weather doesn't cool you off, water doesn't quench your thirst, and winning the lottery would just cause more problems?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Price article on breaking point for Pats paints an accurate picture of the franchise.

    No Champ, I have no problem with any aspect of the coaching, the head coach, or his assistants.  I think the strategy, game planning, play calling, player preparation--everything related to coaching--has been brilliant.  That more than anything is the team's strength in my opinion.

    As far as team building, I also think BB does a very good job.  At the same time, I don't see him as perfect (no one is) in this area.  And I also realize that the way the salary cap and draft positioning work creates constraints that make it impossible to build a team without making lots of trade offs.  There's no way in the modern NFL to build a perfect team.  Any approach you take is going to involve trade offs and have its strengths and weaknesses.  When I look at BB's approach, his strength is maintaining good average quality and lots of flexibility to adapt to changing players.  The weakness of his approach is that he sometimes ends up with a bit less top individual talent than some other playoff quality teams.  To me the playoff losses are easily explained by gaps in talent, exacerbated by a few key injuries.  I don't see the assistant coaches as an issue.  I don't see play calling or strategy as a problem.  I don't see Brady as a problem.  What I see are some gaps in talent in the secondary, in the receiving corp (especially with Gronk out), in places in the O line, and sometimes elsewhere.  The losses are mostly due to these talent gaps.  Those are impossible to avoid in today's NFL, and I don't have a gripe with Belichick or blame him for that . . . but I also don't see any reason to pretend that the talent gaps don't exist.  

     

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