Projecting Chandler Jones

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Projecting Chandler Jones

    Just trying to get a gauge on how others feel about his 1st year playing, his effectiveness andf his potential and ceiling going forward. Sadly the reason I am posting this is because Im starting to think we may not be getting much help in that department with the Pats stalling on Abraham. They will most likely draft a DT, but not a DE this year soooo, Maybe we have the CFL guys to look forward too.

    I thought C.J. was surprisingly good at the point of attack in stopping the run and held his own in setting the edge. Def. played stronger than I envisioned. IN terms of pass rush, I dont think he ever was the same after his ankle injury and I think without the injury, he easily puts up 12 sacks, maybe more. I like the fact that he isnt just an upfield speed guy but CAN beat his man with speed. He has these herky jerky, hesitation moves that allow them to be versatile and I thought he showed a lot of moves for a rookie. Usually guys have trouble early with counter moves but he has shown he cant be played one way. So im wondering if the Pats knowing this are thinking they will add someone but not gonna spend too much because they feel C.J. is ready to take that next step and I agree he is, but I just think he needs a better player opposite him so teams dont just start chipping him and make him ineffectve. Does anyone know if this Armstead guy can rush the passer and what are folks expectation of Jake Bequette? Busto or big jump 2nd year into playing time as sub rusher??  For a 3rd round pick, I would expect something this year or dare I say it....

    thoughts on this anyone?  Im starting to get a little concerned so should I feel better about it with CJ here?  I just dont see how the defense changing that much with the same secondary returning. I hope we get one of these nice CB  prospects and go ahead and sign a pass rusher already. Not sold on any draft prospects outside the 1st in terms of rushing. Any names out there as possible sleepers in the 6th round?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    I think Jones slowed down as the year progressed, which isn't uncommon for a rook. Teams started to get some film on him and take notice on him so they were game planning around him. If the Pats can add another pass rusher opposite him or interior help to push the pocket and prevent QB's from stepping up I think Jones is going to have a big year next year. The biggest thing is if the refs will start to call holds against him. Tons of times early last year T's were holding him and it wasn't being called. Hopefully he's gotten enough of a rep that Refs will start to call it.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    I think Jones slowed down as the year progressed, which isn't uncommon for a rook. Teams started to get some film on him and take notice on him so they were game planning around him. If the Pats can add another pass rusher opposite him or interior help to push the pocket and prevent QB's from stepping up I think Jones is going to have a big year next year. The biggest thing is if the refs will start to call holds against him. Tons of times early last year T's were holding him and it wasn't being called. Hopefully he's gotten enough of a rep that Refs will start to call it.



    Agree. Plus the fact that he was hurt during the playoffs.

    As for the secondary - after Talib and Dennard became the starters it was pretty good. Why is it so many do not see that. I think we have a good set of starters IF we can cover TEs. So one or both Wilsons will need to step up in this way. We do NEED more quality depth in the secondary.

    And we NEED a better pass rush. Give this group back there a better pass rush and you will see a tough D to pass against.

    I also think the NEED fo upgrade at DT is a big one.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    If CJ can get stronger with out losing his burst and speed, he will be a monster on the edge. He would also be able to break free of the holds that the refs ignored against a rookie

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    I think Jones slowed down as the year progressed, which isn't uncommon for a rook. Teams started to get some film on him and take notice on him so they were game planning around him. If the Pats can add another pass rusher opposite him or interior help to push the pocket and prevent QB's from stepping up I think Jones is going to have a big year next year. The biggest thing is if the refs will start to call holds against him. Tons of times early last year T's were holding him and it wasn't being called. Hopefully he's gotten enough of a rep that Refs will start to call it.

     



    Agree. Plus the fact that he was hurt during the playoffs.

     

    As for the secondary - after Talib and Dennard became the starters it was pretty good. Why is it so many do not see that. I think we have a good set of starters IF we can cover TEs. So one or both Wilsons will need to step up in this way. We do NEED more quality depth in the secondary.

    And we NEED a better pass rush. Give this group back there a better pass rush and you will see a tough D to pass against.

    I also think the NEED fo upgrade at DT is a big one.



    Its not that I didnt realize the secondary played better with Dennard and Talib but a couple concerns are...  Is talib a guy you can count on in 16 games? Will he be there in the postseason. Is Dennard gonna have a setback or continue his strong play(a string of recent pats DBs have come back in year 2 and regressed) Will Dennard be in training camp. Both Dennard and Talib has hammy issues last year. Both of them play man/press which is what made our d better. Arrington is strictly a zone player outside so im sorrry If Im a little concerned. We are ONE injury away from being an atrocious secondary again so Im hoping there is a better pass rush to offset that this year. thats all

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    Imo a hammy injury after 4 weeks of rest due to suspension is due to the player not being in game shape. That is on the player, which is one of the reasons Talib was offered a 1 year deal (and let go by the Bucs for a 4th)..

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    I think Jones slowed down as the year progressed, which isn't uncommon for a rook. Teams started to get some film on him and take notice on him so they were game planning around him. If the Pats can add another pass rusher opposite him or interior help to push the pocket and prevent QB's from stepping up I think Jones is going to have a big year next year. The biggest thing is if the refs will start to call holds against him. Tons of times early last year T's were holding him and it wasn't being called. Hopefully he's gotten enough of a rep that Refs will start to call it.

     



    Agree. Plus the fact that he was hurt during the playoffs.

     

    As for the secondary - after Talib and Dennard became the starters it was pretty good. Why is it so many do not see that. I think we have a good set of starters IF we can cover TEs. So one or both Wilsons will need to step up in this way. We do NEED more quality depth in the secondary.

    And we NEED a better pass rush. Give this group back there a better pass rush and you will see a tough D to pass against.

    I also think the NEED fo upgrade at DT is a big one.



    I think we can see Talib and Dennard was pretty good once they were starters but there are additional points of concern, namely:

    • Talib is inconsistent at times and hasn't played a full season in his career yet so at some point chances are someone will have to fill in for him
    • Arrington is solid as a slot guy but can't ever move outside or there's an issue
    • You need 3 startering CBs in today's NFL and right now we have no one behind those 3 as you did say we need depth

    I don't think people are saying we need all new starters. But, I along with most honestly think they need to add at minimum another fringe starting guy who can play inside and out before the start of the season and even then I'm not fully comfortable with the CB core. I have no faith in Ras staying healthy and Cole is a good STer but a horrible CB. We have serious depth issues right now at CB as we do at WR. Not very good areas to have depth issues considering skill positions are extremely hard to find quality guys

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    Imo a hammy injury after 4 weeks of rest due to suspension is due to the player not being in game shape. That is on the player, which is one of the reasons Talib was offered a 1 year deal (and let go by the Bucs for a 4th)..

     



    if it's one insolated incident I'd agree, but Talib hasn't played 16 games in a single year ever. There might be more to it then what we think about his conditioning. However, when he's on the field we certainly improves the D. I'd be happy if we got 14 games from him and the post-season. But, that means we need a fringe starting caliber backup behind him which we are currently missing

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    Knee jerk troll thread.  Why does every BBW have to infuse a thread with some kinf of a shot at BB as GM?

    You Irrationals don't deserve to be a fan of this team. Go back to doing whatever you were doing pre Brady, because the rest of us were actually a fan of this team pre Brady and pre Kraft and remember what it was like.

     

     




     

    Go take you meds you nutjob!  Noone else seemed to have a problem with the question and how does my praising one of his draft pics = a shot at BB?? The only KNee Jerk reaction is YOU reading a the Reading is fundamental Rusty. ONe could ask you why you cant even comment on ONE thread without throwing jabs at the best player this franchise has seen in quite some time. Other than the couple fake accounts, noone agrees with you in regards to Brady and everyone else realizes BB is human, thats all.

     

    You started to sound crazy a couple years ago. At this point I dont even know the word for your present condition but I hope you get it taken care of, seriously dude.  Call the housekeepers, cuz you have checked out my friend.  SEEK HELP FAST

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    Knee jerk troll thread.  Why does every BBW have to infuse a thread with some kinf of a shot at BB as GM?

    You Irrationals don't deserve to be a fan of this team. Go back to doing whatever you were doing pre Brady, because the rest of us were actually a fan of this team pre Brady and pre Kraft and remember what it was like.

     



    Hmmm...a bit paranoid today Russ? 

    I don't see any shots being taken here at bb. Why do you continually take shots at Brady? 

    Whats the strategy today? Trade brady for Matt Flynn?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    I think Jones slowed down as the year progressed, which isn't uncommon for a rook. Teams started to get some film on him and take notice on him so they were game planning around him. If the Pats can add another pass rusher opposite him or interior help to push the pocket and prevent QB's from stepping up I think Jones is going to have a big year next year. The biggest thing is if the refs will start to call holds against him. Tons of times early last year T's were holding him and it wasn't being called. Hopefully he's gotten enough of a rep that Refs will start to call it.

     



    Agree. Plus the fact that he was hurt during the playoffs.

     

    As for the secondary - after Talib and Dennard became the starters it was pretty good. Why is it so many do not see that. I think we have a good set of starters IF we can cover TEs. So one or both Wilsons will need to step up in this way. We do NEED more quality depth in the secondary.

    And we NEED a better pass rush. Give this group back there a better pass rush and you will see a tough D to pass against.

    I also think the NEED fo upgrade at DT is a big one.

     



    I think we can see Talib and Dennard was pretty good once they were starters but there are additional points of concern, namely:

     

    • Talib is inconsistent at times and hasn't played a full season in his career yet so at some point chances are someone will have to fill in for him
    • Arrington is solid as a slot guy but can't ever move outside or there's an issue
    • You need 3 startering CBs in today's NFL and right now we have no one behind those 3 as you did say we need depth

    I don't think people are saying we need all new starters. But, I along with most honestly think they need to add at minimum another fringe starting guy who can play inside and out before the start of the season and even then I'm not fully comfortable with the CB core. I have no faith in Ras staying healthy and Cole is a good STer but a horrible CB. We have serious depth issues right now at CB as we do at WR. Not very good areas to have depth issues considering skill positions are extremely hard to find quality guys



    Agree. We need another cb who can be counted on should talib or Dennard miss time. 

    Russ actually made a decent suggestion on another thread where we should look at Lacey. That is a pretty good idea. 

    I am inclined to agree, and also, feel like a veteran cb should be brought in. I know the draft is deep at corner, but id rather pony up a small amount of cash for a proven vet. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    Continuing.....

    if we brought in a decently priced vet at cb, we could then use the draft to do 3 things early that would potentially benefit the team more

    grab a stud DT to put next to Vince ...Hankins, jwilliams or sWilliams 

    grab a WR...bailey, Rogers 

    grab a stud de to play opposite jones....carradine, hunt, etc

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    Playing Chandler Jones primarily as a defensive end is a bad move, with a nasty D tackle next to Wilfork and Armstead, Jones should flourish.  Pete Carroll asking Willie McGinest to bulk up and play defensive end is how he injured his back.  Asking a 260 pound guy to wrestle with 320 pound offensive tackles is a bad move.  If we do the right thing in the draft Jones will have a breakout year.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Playing Chandler Jones primarily as a defensive end is a bad move, with a nasty D tackle next to Wilfork and Armstead, Jones should flourish.  Pete Carroll asking Willie McGinest to bulk up and play defensive end is how he injured his back.  Asking a 260 pound guy to wrestle with 320 pound offensive tackles is a bad move.  If we do the right thing in the draft Jones will have a breakout year.




    I wouldnt mind seeing them grab one of the better BIG DT in the draft also that could take pressure off of Wilfork but more importantly allow us to play more 3-4 instead of 3-3-5 and get back to confusing the QB more like we used too. I agree that Jones could play some OLB in the 3-4 but still think his position is DE. He did well last year as a raw player and I cant comfirm your point about Willie. Willie was a hybrid that could excel in both but was valuble at the OLB spot. I thought most of his injuries in the Carrol era were more to do with bad conditioning, partying and scr*wing too much under the loose leadership of Carrol. We had Bledsoe in the Mosh pit, Troy Brown with limo full of Ho's, Terry Gleen p*ssing in public, Ty Law getting caught with extacy,etc. I dont think it was due to playing out of position. It was groin and leg issues with Willie if I recall. Anyways I do agree about the DT and it making us more flexible but disagree that Jones playing DE is out of position. He looks to be able to do both. He has a good pedigree, strong work ethic and I expect big things next year but he needs help too

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    The most impressive thing about CJ was his play against the run.  As a "raw" player coming out of college I expected him to still be able to pressure the QB, but the fact that he was an excellent run defender (and the coaching staff obviously agreed given his snap count) and could generate pass rush was really encouraging.  If he stays healthy and develops a bit more I could easily see double digit sacks.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    I wouldnt mind seeing them grab one of the better BIG DT in the draft also that could take pressure off of Wilfork but more importantly allow us to play more 3-4 instead of 3-3-5 and get back to confusing the QB more like we used too. I agree that Jones could play some OLB in the 3-4 but still think his position is DE. He did well last year as a raw player and I cant comfirm your point about Willie. Willie was a hybrid that could excel in both but was valuble at the OLB spot. I thought most of his injuries in the Carrol era were more to do with bad conditioning, partying and scr*wing too much under the loose leadership of Carrol. We had Bledsoe in the Mosh pit, Troy Brown with limo full of Ho's, Terry Gleen p*ssing in public, Ty Law getting caught with extacy,etc. I dont think it was due to playing out of position. It was groin and leg issues with Willie if I recall. Anyways I do agree about the DT and it making us more flexible but disagree that Jones playing DE is out of position. He looks to be able to do both. He has a good pedigree, strong work ethic and I expect big things next year but he needs help too



    Playing three genuine defensive lineman means Jones will be matched up against a tightend instead of facing up an offensive tackle.  I can attest that Brady, Ty Law and Lawyer Milloy were partying together during their championship run under Belichick.  Willie's injury issues happened when they switched to a 4/3 and he bulked up to 270, I don't think it's coincidence.  Elephant outside linebacker rushes the passer 90%of the time, he won't be asked to do anything different than what he did last year, just that he will move around, most often to the weak side of the field and he won't be asked to try and overcome a tremendous weight differential, in fact the entire defense will benefit from this, how often can Spikes blitz up the middle only to be stifled by a guard and a center, they need beef...

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    I agree wozzy that elephant OLB rushes the passer most of the time, but does Chandler have much experience rushing out of a 2 point stance?  It isn't exactly the same.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    I think Jones slowed down as the year progressed, which isn't uncommon for a rook. Teams started to get some film on him and take notice on him so they were game planning around him. If the Pats can add another pass rusher opposite him or interior help to push the pocket and prevent QB's from stepping up I think Jones is going to have a big year next year. The biggest thing is if the refs will start to call holds against him. Tons of times early last year T's were holding him and it wasn't being called. Hopefully he's gotten enough of a rep that Refs will start to call it.

     



    Agree. Plus the fact that he was hurt during the playoffs.

     

    As for the secondary - after Talib and Dennard became the starters it was pretty good. Why is it so many do not see that. I think we have a good set of starters IF we can cover TEs. So one or both Wilsons will need to step up in this way. We do NEED more quality depth in the secondary.

    And we NEED a better pass rush. Give this group back there a better pass rush and you will see a tough D to pass against.

    I also think the NEED fo upgrade at DT is a big one.



    Agree 100%

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    I like Jones, I think he is a good player...I'd describe him like this...

    Long player, decent strength, plays at a good pad level for a guy that tall, nice flexible athlete, decent quickness (not special explosiveness or burst), great motor, really seems to use his hands well and fights throughout the whole play with whoever is blocking him. Football player...a real one...not one of these guys we have to pretend is a good player for three years because Belichick drafted him, and then we all admit the only reason why they stayed on the team was they were drafted high and we had no one else to play the position (plus they got excellent coaching and were well hidden). 

    I would say this guy is not as gifted in the speed department as McGinnest was when he came out - Willie ran a 4.5 when he came out...he was a total freak. I also think that as gifted as Willie was, Jones looks like he will be a better pass rusher than Willie. I remember Willie doing nothing but bull rushing his first three years in the league...Chandler looks years ahead of him in flexibility and technique.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    I would say this guy is not as gifted in the speed department as McGinnest was when he came out - Willie ran a 4.5 when he came out...he was a total freak. I also think that as gifted as Willie was, Jones looks like he will be a better pass rusher than Willie. I remember Willie doing nothing but bull rushing his first three years in the league...Chandler looks years ahead of him in flexibility and technique.



    Agree that Willie was a unique athlete, 6'5" 255 pounds out of college with that 4.5 forty is why he became the fourth overall pick. That being said we all benefited from Jones having a bad combine, the kid is kind of shy (youngest brother syndrome?) and maybe flinched at being put under the microscope, but his pro day was a lot more impressive.

    PCMIV, Jones can probable play standing up but it's not a prerequisite that he does, even in the 3/4 OVER the Pat's used to run, Willie would line up on the line like a defensive end and drop into a three point stance, it wasn't always a secret he would be rushing the QB.  It was very rare that he was asked to drop back into coverage but the same thing could be said about Vince Wilfork dropping back into zone coverage and grabbing a pick. 

    With 2 career picks Vince still needs three more to catch up to Willie's 5 but Willie also is credited with 29 career passes defensed.  Sometimes being tall with long arms is enough in pass coverage, especially in a shortened space like the short side of the field or end zone.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    Imo a hammy injury after 4 weeks of rest due to suspension is due to the player not being in game shape. That is on the player, which is one of the reasons Talib was offered a 1 year deal (and let go by the Bucs for a 4th)..

     

     



    Yet you just praised mike huff who takes bad angles and cannot tackle. Lol

     



    OMG, that means he would fit right in with the other Pats Safties! Lol!

    I like the Talib signing, but in no way can the Pats not have insurance against a head case. Pats spent $5m and outsmarted the market, now they have to spend another $2m on insurance (another CB)

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Projecting Chandler Jones

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    PCMIV, Jones can probable play standing up but it's not a prerequisite that he does, even in the 3/4 OVER the Pat's used to run, Willie would line up on the line like a defensive end and drop into a three point stance, it wasn't always a secret he would be rushing the QB.  It was very rare that he was asked to drop back into coverage but the same thing could be said about Vince Wilfork dropping back into zone coverage and grabbing a pick. 

    With 2 career picks Vince still needs three more to catch up to Willie's 5 but Willie also is credited with 29 career passes defensed.  Sometimes being tall with long arms is enough in pass coverage, especially in a shortened space like the short side of the field or end zone.

     



    I agree that Willie spent a lot of time rushing from a 3 point stance.  I also agree with you that he spent a lot of his time rushing from a 3 point stance.  I'm just saying I think (since I don't have any hard data) that he spent a non trivial number of snaps rushing from a 2 point stance as well (and of course occasionally dropping into coverage).  Now Chandler might be able to do that, but I was just pointing out that I think it would entail asking him to do things he didn't do last year.

     

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