Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

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    Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    Hey guys, I am overseas so obviously my ability to watch college football is limited to one or two games a week (whatever is on AFN). I keep reading online stuff like below, how Jadeveon Clowney has taken a few steps backwards this season. Do you think he is bored with the college game and waiting on the draft, injured or some other reason? And is he still positioned to go #1 in the draft or how far do you see him falling? Interested to hear the thoughts of you folks who watch alot of college games. Thanks.

    Critics continue to question Clowney’s commitment Mississippi State v South Carolina

    After his second college football season, South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney was viewed as such a can’t-miss prospect that it was seen as a foregone conclusion that he would have been the first overall pick in the 2013 NFL draft, if only he had been eligible. But now Clowney is in the middle of his third college football season, and he’s no longer universally praised.

    Throughout this season, Clowney has been met by criticism that he takes plays off, doesn’t hustle, and has generally bought his own hype. Some of the most thorough criticism yet comes from Bucky Brooks, the former NFL player who now works as an analyst for NFL Media. Brooks wrote a detailed profile of Clowney in which he lumps his concerns about Clowney under the heading of “football character.”

    “I believe there are legitimate concerns about his football character,” Brooks writes. “He has appeared distracted by the limelight and attention that accompanies his reputation as a potential top pick; it appears to have affected his preparation for the season. Clowney has struggled with his conditioning throughout the season and has battled a handful of bumps and bruises that have impacted his play. Additionally, he has repeatedly taken plays off and appeared disinterested in the middle of games, which is a red flag for scouts looking for a potential difference-maker at the top of the draft.”

    Like everyone who has seen Clowney play, Brooks is impressed with Clowney’s natural talent: “Clowney is a spectacular athlete with a rare combination of size, speed, strength and explosiveness,” Brooks writes. But Brooks questions whether Clowney will ever live up to his potential.

    There may be a kernel of truth to the criticisms: Clowney has just two sacks this season and hasn’t always dominated on Saturdays the way you’d expect for a guy who has the talent to be starting on Sundays.

    Still, even when Clowney isn’t getting to the quarterback, his presence is making a significant difference. It’s obvious from watching the way opposing teams double Clowney and run away from him that they still view him as a major threat. South Carolina defensive line coach Deke Adams told the Post and Courier that while Clowney isn’t making quite as many plays as he’d like, the talk that he doesn’t play hard is wrong.

    “He knows as well as everybody that he’s missed a couple,” Adams said. “He’s left some out there, but it is what it is. He’s being blocked by two or three guys, and there are times when he’s had a chance to make a couple plays that he didn’t. He knows that. He’s playing hard. That’s all we can ask him to continue to do, is play hard and those things will happen.”

    Clowney probably won’t be the first overall pick in the 2014 NFL draft because the Jaguars will probably take a quarterback with the first overall pick. But for all the criticism he’s taken, Clowney is still the favorite to be the first non-quarterback drafted.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:

     

    Hey guys, I am overseas so obviously my ability to watch college football is limited to one or two games a week (whatever is on AFN). I keep reading online stuff like below, how Jadeveon Clowney has taken a few steps backwards this season. Do you think he is bored with the college game and waiting on the draft, injured or some other reason? And is he still positioned to go #1 in the draft or how far do you see him falling? Interested to hear the thoughts of you folks who watch alot of college games. Thanks.

    Critics continue to question Clowney’s commitment Mississippi State v South Carolina

    After his second college football season, South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney was viewed as such a can’t-miss prospect that it was seen as a foregone conclusion that he would have been the first overall pick in the 2013 NFL draft, if only he had been eligible. But now Clowney is in the middle of his third college football season, and he’s no longer universally praised.

    Throughout this season, Clowney has been met by criticism that he takes plays off, doesn’t hustle, and has generally bought his own hype. Some of the most thorough criticism yet comes from Bucky Brooks, the former NFL player who now works as an analyst for NFL Media. Brooks wrote a detailed profile of Clowney in which he lumps his concerns about Clowney under the heading of “football character.”

    “I believe there are legitimate concerns about his football character,” Brooks writes. “He has appeared distracted by the limelight and attention that accompanies his reputation as a potential top pick; it appears to have affected his preparation for the season. Clowney has struggled with his conditioning throughout the season and has battled a handful of bumps and bruises that have impacted his play. Additionally, he has repeatedly taken plays off and appeared disinterested in the middle of games, which is a red flag for scouts looking for a potential difference-maker at the top of the draft.”

    Like everyone who has seen Clowney play, Brooks is impressed with Clowney’s natural talent: “Clowney is a spectacular athlete with a rare combination of size, speed, strength and explosiveness,” Brooks writes. But Brooks questions whether Clowney will ever live up to his potential.

    There may be a kernel of truth to the criticisms: Clowney has just two sacks this season and hasn’t always dominated on Saturdays the way you’d expect for a guy who has the talent to be starting on Sundays.

    Still, even when Clowney isn’t getting to the quarterback, his presence is making a significant difference. It’s obvious from watching the way opposing teams double Clowney and run away from him that they still view him as a major threat. South Carolina defensive line coach Deke Adams told the Post and Courier that while Clowney isn’t making quite as many plays as he’d like, the talk that he doesn’t play hard is wrong.

    “He knows as well as everybody that he’s missed a couple,” Adams said. “He’s left some out there, but it is what it is. He’s being blocked by two or three guys, and there are times when he’s had a chance to make a couple plays that he didn’t. He knows that. He’s playing hard. That’s all we can ask him to continue to do, is play hard and those things will happen.”

    Clowney probably won’t be the first overall pick in the 2014 NFL draft because the Jaguars will probably take a quarterback with the first overall pick. But for all the criticism he’s taken, Clowney is still the favorite to be the first non-quarterback drafted.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

     



    Hey Man,

     

    Where you stationed?

    Personally, I think he's taken his foot off the gas, trying to make it through the year without getting a serious injury... he was right there for teammmate Marcus Lattimore's horrific knee injury and I think it's in the back of his head.

    While I think he'd still go top 3 if the draft were today, due to his rare ability , I agree that it does show a huge lack of football character (as mentioned in the article and large level of selfishness... apparently healthy (who's really 100% this late in the season) by putting his future and own best interests ahead of that of the team.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    I think he is an incredible talent and someone will take him in the top 2-5. I understand concerns about effort - I watched that bum Vervon Gholston play like a total dog in the biggest college game of his career and go on to be the bust that he looked like he was capable of being - but Clowney is a much better player. Even if Clowney plays like a dog in the NFL he is still going to get 6-8 sacks a year and if he plays hard he will have a chance to be the best pass rusher in the NFL...guys like that don't grow on trees.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    Tks guys for the insight. MB I am currently in Africa, its a different world here! Stay well.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tks guys for the insight. MB I am currently in Africa, its a different world here! Stay well.

    [/QUOTE]

    You too, bruddah!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tks guys for the insight. MB I am currently in Africa, its a different world here! Stay well.

    [/QUOTE]

    What part? Or can you not say? I forgot you were one of the board's service people. Thanks for what you do.

    [/QUOTE]

    I am in South Sudan, a 2 yo country. Thanks for the acknowledgement!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tks guys for the insight. MB I am currently in Africa, its a different world here! Stay well.

    [/QUOTE]

    What part? Or can you not say? I forgot you were one of the board's service people. Thanks for what you do.

    [/QUOTE]

    I am in South Sudan, a 2 yo country. Thanks for the acknowledgement!

    [/QUOTE]

    Stay Safe!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tks guys for the insight. MB I am currently in Africa, its a different world here! Stay well.

    [/QUOTE]

    What part? Or can you not say? I forgot you were one of the board's service people. Thanks for what you do.

    [/QUOTE]

    I am in South Sudan, a 2 yo country. Thanks for the acknowledgement!

    [/QUOTE]

    I must have missed you explaining what you do there, so may I ask?

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    No guru hear but always willing to share thoughts on draft topics.

    I agree with MB, that Lattimore's incident is still in the back of Clowney's mind. I agree with the assessment that he has been taking plays off a bit. I understand  if he actually is. And (I'm probably a minority here) I actually do not mind it.

    Whether we like it or not, the NFL changed college football over the past 20 years and will continue to change. Frankly, I am surprised the CLowney thing is not happening more often. I think I would only be concerned if he takes plays off in their bowl game (assuming they have one).

    He still warrants a high first round. However, I do not think he is who JAX or TBB should pick, when the caliber of QBs coming to the draft are available. Pass rushers are important, but QBs are more important. You just have to think about how many times in game that the ball is in a QBs to know how much of the game's outcome cane be influenced by the QB.

    Clowney makes sense for a team who has a decent QB. If teh draft happened today (given where teams stand and QB situation) NYG would be the team who should be looking to pick him up.

    MIN could choose to decide to pick him if their ideal QB is taken in the top 2. They can then pick a pretty good QB at the top of the second.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    Pretty much what MB and Seattle said. Clowney is mailing it in at this point so he doesn't get hurt. If he wasn't such a force this would hurt his draft stock but he is a force so it shouldn't. Esp, if he blows up the combine.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    Quag

    Thanks for letting us know you are in South Sudan. Africa is such a complicated place with so much tribal conflict, political instability, religous strife, poverty and ambivalence toward Western democracy that it all seems too much to comprehend at times. 

    Any insights from you would be useful.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    In response to NYC's comment:

    Quag

    Thanks for letting us know you are in South Sudan. Africa is such a complicated place with so much tribal conflict, religous strife, poverty and ambivalence toward Western democracy that it all seems too much to comprehend at times. 

    Any insights from you would be useful.



    Not sure exactly what you want to know but your absoloutely right about the tribal conflict, poverty etc. South Sudan is primarily a Christian country as opposed to Sudan which is Muslim. Some very sad facts; 80% of houses have no toilet facilities or running water, only 17% of children in the country have recieved immunizations, only 37% of the population over the age of 6 have ever attended school and only 27% of the population is literate. Having said all that, the pople here are the nicest, friendliest people you would ever meet!

     

     

     
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    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    First off best of luck in Sudan Quagmire. I am sure its a difficult situation.

    Clowney is still the top defensive talent on the board and the only thing that pushes him down is a good QB class. He does get double-teamed quite a bit wich to me usually means that the DTs around him need to make plays. I still think he has to have an injury free season and look very good at the combine like everyone else. There was a rumor that he was dogging it on orders from his agent to avoid an injury which would lessen his value. There could be a number of teams (Pittsburgh, Giants) that could use his services if he drops from the top 3 to the top 10.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:

    In response to NYC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Quag

    Thanks for letting us know you are in South Sudan. Africa is such a complicated place with so much tribal conflict, religous strife, poverty and ambivalence toward Western democracy that it all seems too much to comprehend at times. 

    Any insights from you would be useful.

     



    Not sure exactly what you want to know but your absoloutely right about the tribal conflict, poverty etc. South Sudan is primarily a Christian country as opposed to Sudan which is Muslim. Some very sad facts; 80% of houses have no toilet facilities or running water, only 17% of children in the country have recieved immunizations, only 37% of the population over the age of 6 have ever attended school and only 27% of the population is literate. Having said all that, the pople here are the nicest, friendliest people you would ever meet!

     

     Quag

    Great! Good to hear you are around friendly people. Poverty and illiteracy are crippling but having an opening, loving spirit helps transcend it. What is your role in the military?

     Also, I really hope you make the best of your experience abroad. I have valued my experiences living in other cultures.

    [/QUOTE]


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYPatsFan12. Show NYPatsFan12's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    thanks quag

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:

     

    Hey guys, I am overseas so obviously my ability to watch college football is limited to one or two games a week (whatever is on AFN). I keep reading online stuff like below, how Jadeveon Clowney has taken a few steps backwards this season. Do you think he is bored with the college game and waiting on the draft, injured or some other reason? And is he still positioned to go #1 in the draft or how far do you see him falling? Interested to hear the thoughts of you folks who watch alot of college games. Thanks...Brooks wrote a detailed profile of Clowney in which he lumps his concerns about Clowney under the heading of “football character.” “I believe there are legitimate concerns about his football character,” Brooks writes. “He has appeared distracted by the limelight and attention that accompanies his reputation as a potential top pick; it appears to have affected his preparation for the season...he has repeatedly taken plays off and appeared disinterested in the middle of games, which is a red flag for scouts looking for a potential difference-maker at the top of the draft.”

    RESPONSE: It's much, much, much too early to field questions on the upcoming draft, and to answer them with any degree of logic, or fact.

         That said, I watched Clowney play against North Carolina in his first game of the collegiate season for South Carolina. During that game, a North Carolina OT purposely tried to injure him by clipping him in the back of the knee, very late in the evolution of the offensive play that was run: http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/8/29/4674380/jadeveon-clowney-unc-cheapshot-gif

        This was one of the most blantant attempts to injure that I've seen, since a Green Bay DT picked up and body-slammed then Chicago QB, Jim McMahon, sometime in the late eighties. Though Clowney escaped injury, this play has clearly affected his play, as he has played somewhat passively thereafter. 

         Can anybody really blame the guy? He's a dirt poor kid, with dreams of buying his Mom a home, and taking care of his family. A serious injury now could jeopardize that. Just look at DeQuan Bowers, who is now playing for Tampa Bay. Bowers was the hot pass-rushing commodity out of Clemson(which, incidently, is a school also located in South Carolina) in 2011. Unfortunately, Bowers suffered a severe knee injury in his inal year, which nearly ended his career. The injury dropped him from a potential top 5 pick, to a "reach" with the 51st overall pick in the 2011 draft: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/feed/2011-01/2011-nfl-draft/story/mixed-reports-on-severity-of-daquan-bowers-knee-injury

         Currently, based on potential alone, I still see Clowney as a top three talent. The only thing that concerns me about him is that he's been coached by Steve Spurrier at South Carolina, who I don't think that much of. But again, it's far too early to speculate as to who will go where in the draft. Frankly, I don't care to start researching and studying college players this early. So many things can change in the next few months ahead.  

          

             

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    RESPONSE: It's much, much, much too early to field questions on the upcoming draft, and to answer them with any degree of logic, or fact.

        

    [/QUOTE]

    Why is it too early? And why is it too early to look at them with any degree of logic? 

    As far as I know people are interested in the draft and draft talk. Just because you aren't doesn't make it any less relevent to those who do enjoy it.

    As for it being too early, I guess teams don't bother looking at players at this point either. Way to early. Truth is you get more out of watching a player through this part of the season than you do from the combine. So wouldn't it suggest the degree of logic should come from their current playing ability and competition they are facing then how many bench presses or 40 time they run after the season?

    TP I know you hate draft talk until the night of the draft and you hate fantasy sports for what ever reason but you can either ignore it or if you wish to participate like you did how about not starting with a snide comment and then add in your hypocritical response. Of course you're always more than welcome to join us in the draft forum. It's quite fun seeing what's coming down the pipe while enjoying the Pats at the same time too.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    RESPONSE: It's much, much, much too early to field questions on the upcoming draft, and to answer them with any degree of logic, or fact.

        

    [/QUOTE]

    Why is it too early? And why is it too early to look at them with any degree of logic? 

    As far as I know people are interested in the draft and draft talk. Just because you aren't doesn't make it any less relevent to those who do enjoy it.

    As for it being too early, I guess teams don't bother looking at players at this point either. Way to early. Truth is you get more out of watching a player through this part of the season than you do from the combine. So wouldn't it suggest the degree of logic should come from their current playing ability and competition they are facing then how many bench presses or 40 time they run after the season?

    TP I know you hate draft talk until the night of the draft and you hate fantasy sports for what ever reason but you can either ignore it or if you wish to participate like you did how about not starting with a snide comment and then add in your hypocritical response. Of course you're always more than welcome to join us in the draft forum. It's quite fun seeing what's coming down the pipe while enjoying the Pats at the same time too.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks, PE, for explaining that.

    On my end, I just find it boring now to just make assessments based on the prospects based on what the Kipers of the world say. Sometimes, I think many "experts" just cut and paste each others' comments. I find it more enjoyable to watch the prospects and make assessments based on what I see.

    Until two years ago, I simply relied on youtube highlight videos. That was cool, but what I found is you only see the best moments of the player. I like seeing a more complete sample of their game, so I know what they do well and what they don't. You also see the consistency of effort throughout the season. It would be physically impossible for me to form the view I aspire for if I just start watching games at the end of the season.

    The other advantage of doing this is I don't see the Pats' picks as being as much of a curveball as in previous years. In the past two years, I was at least aware who these kids are that the Pats picked up. I may not fully agree they were good picks, but least it is easier for me to understand where the Pats come from.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Question for Mbealieu and other draft gurus - Quagmire

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

     


    RESPONSE: It's much, much, much too early to field questions on the upcoming draft, and to answer them with any degree of logic, or fact.

        

     



    Why is it too early? And why is it too early to look at them with any degree of logic?

     

    RESPONSE: Has the season ended? Have the four months passed to take us into March? Do we know who is healthy and who isn't? Do we know anything currently ablout the player's personal lives? Has "The Combine" run it's course? What free agents have been signed by each team? It's much, much too early to speculate. 

    As far as I know people are interested in the draft and draft talk. Just because you aren't doesn't make it any less relevent to those who do enjoy it.

    RESPONSE: Aren't I equally entitled to my opinion, as you are to yours? Than why berate me when I say it's pointless and silly to speculate so early? As stated above, there are too many variables in play to wager an educated guess as to who is going where, and how good a guy may become.  

    As for it being too early, I guess teams don't bother looking at players at this point either.

    RESPONSE: A ridiculous comment on your part. It's the job of scouting staffs on each team to scout teams and players early and often. But, are you scouting each team? Do you have access to such inside information? You are merely relying of what you see and read. So...what difference does that make with regards to my opinion?  

    Way to early. Truth is you get more out of watching a player through this part of the season than you do from the combine.

    RESPONSE: Says who? You?? It's a combination of things that determine how high a guy gets chosen and by whom...not how a guy performs in a random game or two. 

    So wouldn't it suggest the degree of logic should come from their current playing ability and competition they are facing then how many bench presses or 40 time they run after the season?

    RESPONSE: No. See above.

    TP I know you hate draft talk until the night of the draft and you hate fantasy sports for what ever reason but you can either ignore it or if you wish to participate like you did how about not starting with a snide comment and then add in your hypocritical response.

    RESPONSE: Both nonsense, and a big-time lie. Every year I begin talking draft in March, and do a detailed analysis of the draft...including several mock drafts, thoughout March and April.

    Of course you're always more than welcome to join us in the draft forum. It's quite fun seeing what's coming down the pipe while enjoying the Pats at the same time too.

    RESPONSE: Gee, thanks. But, I see it as a fruitless waste of time. Still, Quag sought opinions on Clowney, and I responded with my thoughts on him. Doesn't that constitute "talking draft"?

    Adios.

     

     

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