Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfan038. Show Patsfan038's posts

    Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    I was comparing some of Moss' key plays in the legendary 07 season and the good 09 season. What stood out to me was his fine separation. Many TD missed being INT in a matter of inch or less. In fact, a few touched the fingers of the CB, but Moss was still able to grab it. Athletically, he constantly over jumped CBs and got the ball, just as Larry Fitz does. TB's keys INT in 09 seasons were similarly thrown throws to Moss, but he didnt have that separation, or over leapt the CB consistantly. Do you think it is because opposing choaches know how to deal with him, or his age is catching up to him? Mind you, with all those issues, he was still #1 in terms of TD this season, along with #2 in 08 with Cassell and numero uno in 07.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    I think it is tough to have great years one after the other, when you are competeing against teams that spend 4 months developing schemes to break you down.

    One thing that I see developing in NE this year that has been missing since the super bowl in 2007 is this........ The Patriots are in a position that will allow them to take advantage of teams that scheme too much for Moss and our slot receivers... as well as teams that scheme too much on the pass rush and send everything but the kitchen sink at Brady all game long.

    That one thing is the use of the offense and O'Brien taking the next step in making this his offense rather than Josh McDaniels OLD offense with a different play caller.

    If teams over prepare for Moss I finally feel the Patriots are ready to punch them in the mouth with a less predictable offense.

    In years past we did one or the other
    -slant to Welker in the slot, Bubble screnes etc... we used the man to march down the field like he was LaDanian on the Chargers in his glory days.
    -We only through deep crossing patterns flags, post, and go routes to Moss 
    -We never used the TE unless we were 5 yards away from the end zone
    -We only used our backs on 1&10 or 4&1
    -Most of our sets (45% of them) were out of the shot gun in the spread with the running back motioning to the oposite slot of welker.

    I am praying that teams all sign up for the same deffense they did last year, because we have 2 developing young receivers, two TE's, One is an absolute BEAST, Gronk is 6'6", Brady has never had a possesion TE like that in his Tenure, the last one that even came close to being a possession TE played with the WINE squirting fruit Drew Bledsomuch... This is a completely different team in my eyes than 07 & 09... Plus i really think Laura Maroney is going to take his skirt off and play, why wouldn't he..., he essentially has a MUCH better blocking team than ever with the addition of Crump, Gronk and Sea Bass series 2 in the fold.

    The question should be are the Patriots going to HAVE to lean on Brady Moss and Welker to develop offense this year?

    I think the answer is no!

    Moss can become the deep threat he was, his receptions will go down, his targets will go down but he will score as much or more than 09, because of the presense of Crump, Gronk, Hernandez, Edleman, Tate, Holt, Price and the new and improved Laura Maroney.

    O'Brien is cooking up a new offense this year I can smell the thing from my condo!

    BB is going ballzdeep on the defense as he always should with budding starz in the coaching ranks on defense (Corwin Brown ((front runner)) Matt Patricia and Peper Johnson)

    peace 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ONE-TIME. Show ONE-TIME's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    I have to laugh when people rip Randy for last year's performence. Forget about 81 for a second and think of what 12 was coming back from. Carson Palmer isnt even close to being the same guy and it took 5 a good year and a half to get right from his major injury. Considering everything that happened to him I think Brady had a great year...all things considered that is! If you ever get the chance , say on NFL Network. Watch the first 4-5 games last year and you'll see that 12 missed 81 about 4-5 times , all would have been touchdowns. Say he connects on 4 of those , all of a sudden Randy has 17TDs and over 1600 yards. Im a trainer and Physical Therapist and believe me when I tell you that running with a seperated shoulder on top of chronic back problems that he's dealt w/ almost his entire career is extremely difficult. And again all things considered , I thought he a very good year last year. I thought he got very good separation when you think about what he was dealing w/ physically and then add in the fact that our O play calling , creativity was putrid. I know it was before the shoulder injury , but that first jets game Randy actually had a pretty good game. I was at that game and saw a lot of the game tape/all 22 tape on the show playbook on the NFL Network and Randy out played Revis the whole game. He got a great jump off the line and consistently beat him about 65%-70% of the time. He had a couple steps many times , but you would never no know it because TV doesnt show that and Brady got the chit kicked out of him that game. Forget about hurries , 12 was hit 21-22 times that game and just took a pounding. But since 90% of fans/people have no clue what their talking and get their opinions from TV/radio they wouldnt know that. Revis is a great football player , but hardly "shut down" Randy last year. If you want to be considered a "shut down" CB then IMHO you have to play a guy man to man 80%-90% of the time , that didnt happen at all last year. Out of the 77 plays they lined up across from one another Revis only played "true man to man coverage" 7 times...again out of 77 plays , he only played Randy one on one 7 TIMES. Sorry thats not a real shut down CB. I havee no problem saying hes a great player , but one could argue he's not even the best at his position. When healthy Winfield is a better all around CB and so is Woody and Nnamdi. And its not Nnamdi's fault Al Davis is insistent on playing a 1970's style D that has him covering only one half of the field. And one has to look at our O and the guys around him when talking about Randy's numbers. I really dont want to hear about the numbers because no-one respected our run game enough to take the focus of Randy. Im only 28 , but have been watching football intensely since 91' and Ive been trying to think of another team that depended so much on ONE guy to put up 6 for them. Seriously since we got him in 07' he's been our only real scoring threat and teams have figured that out and have decided that their not going to let him kill them. We just dont have the options there to go to. Listen Welker is a very good player , but teams give him almost everything he wants because he's unable to stretch the field and doesnt get into the end zone...at all. Even in the red zone you'd think he'd be a nice target to go to , but for whatever reason that hasnt happened. Teams play him w/ their 2nd , 3rd and sometimes 4th CB and are all to happy to give up short slants , quick outs and bubble screens all day because that means 81 isnt getting the ball , particularly in the end zone. I expect Randy to have a monster year providing EVERYONE stays healthy. If that happens we'll have a healthy Talyor , Tate , Price , with Edelman having another year under his belt in our system and two rookie TE's that IMHO are potential ROY canidates because of their skill and the team we have.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brendon-Patrick. Show Brendon-Patrick's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    ^^^^^^^^

    Nice post.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    "Watch the first 4-5 games last year and you'll see that 12 missed 81 about 4-5 times"

    Well said One-Time.  I think there were at least 10 sure TD's that Brady missed a wide open Moss on when you look back at the entire season.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    Neither played at the level we were accustomed to seeing. Brady missed about 5wide open TDs to Randy Moss last year, Moss didn't fight over 5 possible TDs last season. If they played at their potential, Brady throws 38 TDs.  Let's hope both get it together next season. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfan038. Show Patsfan038's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    I guess TB will be better one year after his knee surgery and hopefully Moss would be OK too, healthwise. I am hoping for 30-35 TD from TB with 8-12 INT and 11-15 TD from 81.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ONE-TIME. Show ONE-TIME's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    Its been almost 6 months since the end of the year and guys like 49PATS still dont have a clue. Theres no debate about the fact that 81 was hurt pretty bad , as I said before Im a trainer and P.T. and running w/ a seperated shoulder and back problems that he's been dealing w/ almost his entire career is extremelt difficult. Saying he didnt "fight" for balls is just plain stupid ... Im sorry , but it is. Yes 12 was hurt too , but if you watch the games almost all of his INT's were a direct result of poor decsion making. I really cant understand after everything we know now , how someone can say that he didnt "fight" for balls and call into q's his effort when its been known for months that he played through those injuries ... Who is this ...CHITBAG Felger? A little of topic , but something else that has to be brought up is the fact that Moss has absolutely no help in terms of another scoring threat ... I really hope 10 years from now we're not kicking ourselves for not doing everything possible to surround a top 3 WR ( all time ) and a top 5 QB ( all time ) w/ as much help as possible! Hopefully these TE's will make an impact this year and our RBs will stay healthy.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    Hey ONE-TIME, I'm aware that Moss-man was hurt, I don't care. I said both missed on what could've resulted in 10 more TDs for Brady. Moss was hurt, sure, but Moss still didn't fight for those balls. Brady was hurt, too, but he still missed on wide open targets. 

    Both should be healthy by the start of the season. I would like to see them play at the level I know they can. With Holt on the team I won't be surprised if teams stop doubling Moss-man because they know Holt would eradicate single coverage. The X-factor to the offensive performance will be Gronkowski. If the Pats can use him well he'll become a great goal line threat, and he would help bring some unpredictability to the offense. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    In Response to Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009:
    I was comparing some of Moss' key plays in the legendary 07 season and the good 09 season. What stood out to me was his fine separation. Many TD missed being INT in a matter of inch or less. In fact, a few touched the fingers of the CB, but Moss was still able to grab it. Athletically, he constantly over jumped CBs and got the ball, just as Larry Fitz does. TB's keys INT in 09 seasons were similarly thrown throws to Moss, but he didnt have that separation, or over leapt the CB consistantly. Do you think it is because opposing choaches know how to deal with him, or his age is catching up to him? Mind you, with all those issues, he was still #1 in terms of TD this season, along with #2 in 08 with Cassell and numero uno in 07.
    Posted by bmadmax81


    Mebbe it's Moss' skillset in decline, but I can't help but think that Brady's injury didn't help a whole lot either. Brady's mechanics were off all year - not really his fault - it was what it was. In addition, teams did adjust. Noone may want to admit it, but Revis did indeed shut Moss down. In addition, it seemed like Brady forced the ball a lot more - due to hurries caused by opposing teams.

    This year, things should improve with Brady's mechanics. Can we expect another 2007? No.  But it would be safe that it'll be between 2007 and 2009.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    Brady and Moss (contract years ?) will both be better this year, however, for them to repeat the record breaking '07 season alot more has to fall into place. That season was more an anomaly than the norm.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    I am sorry but some of the catches..., like the one Randy made down the middle 60 yards deep againts Miami in double coverage were REDICULOUS i often came away wondering how it was even possible to catch a ball throw the far coming from that angle at that speed......??? I think it is a skillset but luck was on there side in 2007 as well. Some of those TD catches would not have been caught if you threw them 100 times to another receiver.

    This one in particular http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmWjcRndlkQ

    touchdown 24 and 25 especially
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    I'd have to agree with most people here. Brady wasn't just coming off an injury, he was also playing injured with the ribs and the finger. Towards the end of the season it was open season on wounded ducks for him. Moss playing with a separated shoulder and an offensive line beaten up. The Patriots never go around talking about it and we don't usually find out until after the season but that team was a physical mess......Let's face it that whole offense was out of sync including the "Coordinator" Extraodinaire. Looking back at those factors and our injured running backs makes me think there is no way we won't improve over last year and the addition of Tory Holt and Tight ends that can catch should really open things up.
    Could be another pretty Large season for Moss in his Contract year!!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    Moss bad year has him 5th in yards and 1st in TD's.  Most recievers can't be leaders in both.  That's more yards and TD's than Brandon Marshall, Larry Fitzgerald, Santonio Holmes, Vincent Jackson, Desean Jackson and most every reciever in the NFL.  If that's a bad year, than the Pats better hold on for a good year because he might break another record.  No doubt- the best receiver in the AFC east is on the Pats.  The only guys that even came close to Matching Moss' production in the NFL last year were Andre Johnson, Miles Austin, and Reggie Wayne. 

    Didn't he also have a seperated shoulder?  And a QB that looked off last year?

    RKPLAYERTEAMRECTARYDSAVGTDLONG20+YDS/GFUMYAC1DN
    1Andre Johnson, WRHOU101170156915.59722298.1153269
    2Wes Welker, WRNWE123162134811.0458896.3170971
    3Miles Austin, WRDAL81125132016.311602182.5158859
    4Sidney Rice, WRMIN83122131215.88631982.0135859
    5Randy Moss, WRNWE83138126415.213711879.0234062
     Reggie Wayne, WRIND100149126412.610652079.0042673
    7Santonio Holmes, WRPIT79138124815.85572178.0049163
    8Steve Smith, WRNYG107159122011.47511476.3023761
    9Hines Ward, WRPIT95136116712.36541572.9241556
     Vincent Jackson, WRSDG68107116717.29551777.8022258
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Randy Moss 2007 vs 2009

    Well Said Shennigan. Brady and Moss were both hurt but both had some of there best years ever! In my opinion the fault had less to do with Brady and Moss and more to do with the lack of variety in the offensive scheme. With no reliable TE's for run blocking or catching, we were forced to attempt the 2nd highest passing attempts in the last decade, unfortunately we didn't have the personnel to be successful. This year should be a different story in terms of consistency and hopefully a renewed commitment to the run.
     

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