Reiss's Mailbag

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    the frustration level which you dont get is that a 2nd round draft choice should be starting for this team...they shouldnt have to move their best CB to S...play a 3rd or 4th rotational S (Gregory) starters snaps, when they spent a 2nd round on Wilson.

    Dont even mention last years 3rd rounder Bequette not playing a single snap..

     
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    Re: Reiss's Mailbag

    Belichick has had over 5 years to completely revamp a defense in his own mold. Scouts be damned, Belichick makes the final picks. They traded up twice last year in the draft, and they've drafted 2nd-round defensive players for several years. Belichick over the last 5 years has had the draft ammunition in terms of picks to trade up, down, whatever to grab the guys who can make an impact. If the Pats trot out yet another well below-average defense this season there is no one in the world to blame other than Bill Belichick. He constructed this as he saw fit. No excuses.

     
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    This frustration from the fanbase with moves like Wilson/Harmon goes back to TWO specific moves involving the WR and CB position, one in '04-'05 and another in the '08-'11 range that drastically altered the fortunes of this franchise.

    Situation A: 2004-2005

    1. The Patriots covet Derrick Mason and Deion Branch is entering the final year of his deal. Not only are the Pats unable to beat out Baltimore for Mason (4 years 20m w/ 7 guaranteed COME ON) they fail to lock Branch up for around that same cash, so he shoots his way out of town after 2005. Mason was a 100/1000/5 guy for the Ravens those years. Branch obv was a SB MVP with great chemistry with Brady who would not have dropped passes like Caldwell. The inability to have one of these guys cost us the '06 SB.

    The Patriots try to fix this position through the draft and veterans instead and fail miserably with chad Jackson and the already mentioned Caldwell before hitting on Moss/Welker. But even those two couldn't get us the '07 SB, which leads us to CB...

    2. Letting Ty Law walk and rolling the dice with Ellis Hobbs opposite Samuel. Also big reasons we lost the '06 AFC championship and '07 SB. Law ate Peyton Manning alive and his bro picked on Hobbs all game in 42. 

    Situation B: 2008-2011

    1. The Patriots let Asante Samuel walk and cannot replace him with a tough veteran cornerback, instead going with washed up veterans and rookies.

    Butler was a bust, so was wheatley and up to this point so is Ras-I. Chung did nothing (we let Goldson leave here over 1-2 million, that likely cost us a SB as well)

    2. The Patriots held onto Randy Moss too long. The Vikings would have traded a 2nd or 3rd/4th for him in the offseason of 2010. They could have had Boldin for the 2nd rd pick they used on Jermaine Cunningham. He signed a cap friendly 3/25 million deal. Or even seen if putting boldin with moss changed the teams fortunes that season.

    Instead the Pats tried to find a #3 WR through the draft and failed again with Tate (instead of Wallace) and Taylor Price.

    This is why we are frustrated with certain 'out there' seeming picks when it comes to WR and CB. These are positions you need smart veterans at. BB cuts those players loose or doesn't pay market value for them (until Amendola after Wes left when we coulda had him for 3/25 before '12).

     
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    It is quite clear to me that had the Patriots made the smart and OBVIOUS moves for veterans at the CB/WR positions... which means

    A. Branch or Mason and Ty Law in '04-'05

    and

    B. Asante (or other top level veteran CB in '08-'09), Boldin in '10 and Goldson in '11

    The Pats would 99.99% have the '06 and '11 Super Bowls and likely also have the '07 and '12 Super Bowls as well. With better shots in '05 (if we had Mason and Branch on the same team) and '10.

    This is why people are annoyed to see these positions CONSTANTLY being addressed in the draft when there have been EIGHT failures at those spots in the 2nd and 3rd rounds between the '06-'12 drafts.

    EIGHT FAILURES, from day 2 picks... UGH!!!!!

    Beyond these guys his drafts have been excellent

    So the signing of FOUR veterans (five if you count Boldin)... whose careers would BARELY have overlapped in that same amount of time (Ty retires after '07 or '08 season, Mason after '10 or '11) would have won us 2-4 more Super Bowls.

    Seriously, 12 win regular seasons can't replace how badly those two positions were messed up simply but not doing the obvious when it came to available veterans on the market or in your organization

     

     
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    Re: Reiss's Mailbag

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    I am sorry, I just have to do it...Have to.

    Look at this moron's comments. $100 he listens to the Felger and Mazz show everyday.

     

    Q. Mike, how on earth can you say "part of Belichick's greatness is going outside group-think" and cite Tavon Wilson as an example of why this is a good thing? If you want to convince me that drafting the Rutgers backfield is genius, you will have to do a lot better than cite Tavon Wilson as an example of Belichick's personnel prowess. If any other GM gambled and failed as much as Belichick does at drafting, they would be fired. Belichick the GM is fortunate enough to have Belichick the coach to bail him out. -- Dan (Boston)

     

    A. Dan, that is not the context in which those remarks were intended to be made regarding Belichick's "greatness." The point was that Belichick isn't afraid to stand on his own and go against the grain, and that's part of what makes him great. In my opinion, there are many in the NFL who are afraid to make the bold, unpopular decision because it could cost them their job or create unwanted headaches. Belichick seldom, if ever, makes a decision based on that thinking and I respect that. At the same time, I'm not defending draft picks like Tavon Wilson and Duron Harmon. In fact, I was actually questioning the pick of Harmon in the piece you mentioned.

    I'd like to point out to "Dan in Boston", that BB's last 3 drafts are no worse than an A- across the board.

    Read that again. 3 straight A level drafts in and out of a lockout.

    Be fired?

    What on god's green earth?  Our fans on the internet are utter morons. 

    Also, guess which team had the most Pro Bowlers (yes, I realize that is not the best barometer for judging) over the last decade?  The Pats!

    It's such a crock that he can't draft well. All it takes is one Kipr or McShay to say "that is a reach" and the moron part of our fanbase overreacts like the fat kid at camp when they run out Twinkies. Ugh.

    I actually like it when they say that because every time they say that, we get a Mankins, Vollmer, etc.

    Also, Tavon Wilson progressed well last year as a rookie. 

     



    your definately Hallowed Hoodie...right?

     
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    Re: Reiss's Mailbag

    Every team misses on picks. Talk to their fans and they will complain about their draft. We don't talk about all of the udfa and late round picks that Belichick has been so good at finding talent.

    In the end I look at the Patriots record over the past 12 years and have to say he's the best. Brady is great but it takes more than that to win as much as the Patriots have. We as Patriot fans are a little spoiled. Lucky I'm not running the show or we would be trading up every year lol.

     
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    Re: Reiss's Mailbag

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    You do realize there was a lockout in 2011, correct.  How can BB go out and get Goldson and all these other players when you have a lockout that doesn't get finished until early August of 2011?

    And, the Branch money he was asking for was way over the top.  I don't think BB was prepared for Branch to ask for so much, so I guess that's on BB, but I can't blame him for certain people's selfishness.

    I think by the time 2009 rolled around, when BB dealt Vrabel and Seymour, if you're a Pats fan and don't see those moves as triggers

    We weren't winning a SB in 2008 (Brady injury) or 2009 (BB dealt off vets and a myriad of players had retired on D or got greedy and got paid - Samuel).  In no way do I want to overpay an older Law in 2005 (he was cooked by 2006) or cave into the 12 mil per year range on Samuel.

    Not with Brady due a new deal, Mankins, Wilfork by 2010.  That doesn't even count not knowing the new CBA parameters post lockout in 2011.

    And our CBs had nothing to do with losing in 2006 AFC title game in Indy.  Nor did they in SB 42 or funny enough, SB 46 (arrignton was outstanding on Cruz, Moore played well, too knocking balls loose and breaking up passes) .

    The dirty little secret for fans like you who want to pretend this is tied to drafts, need to go dig up Brady's postseason stats since 2005 or 2007.  Go look at his numbers from the last 3 AFC title games at home by themselves. There's your answer.

    Because if we win SB 42 or SB 46, morons like Dan from Boston aren't sending those emails into Mike Reiss right now.

    Look no further than how Brady has played in the postseason.

    PS the Branch situation was 2006.  The right decision to walk from a cooked Ty Law in 2005 was not only correct, but 2005.   Mason was 2006, I believe, not 2004.

    I believe Mason's wife said she liked crappy Baltimore better than Boston. No joke. That was the reason for him.  I am glad he never got a ring.  lol

     

     

    Mostly wrong there


    1. Goldson was in here for a visit and was allowed to leave over a paltry 1-2 million. Basically he'd have been here for the money we'd been paying the cut Merriweather/Sanders for 3 years in a row and we couldn't get it done and with it went the '11 Super Bowl.

    2. There was 20-25 million over 5 years for a WR in '04 or '05. Easy. Either give it to Mason and trade Branch 1 year later like we did anyhow (also coulda traded Givens to make room for Mason before he left) or give that $ to Branch 1-2 years before he was a FA wanting 40 million, he'd have been more than happy with 25 then.

    3. Law started all 6 games in '06, had 64 tacked, 4 int's, 3 forced fumbles and picked Manning in the playoffs. He was FAR from cooked... WAY off there.

    4. Brady played poorly for sure... but with a better secondary and Mason or Branch over Jackson and Caldwell and then Boldin over Tate and Price I'm pretty sure the net result is a superior team that came oh so close 4 times.

    5. Mason was a free agent summer of 2005. I said Branch was after the '05 season, but had we offered him a 5/20 extension after '04 he likely takes it.

     
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    And I saw the Seymour and Vrabel moves as triggers for sure, a small rebuild in '09 and '10 was in order.

    The Bodden failure after a solid '09 also hurt as badly and was a good move before the injury. But you needed to replace guys like Law and Samuel... Butler, Wheatley, Wilhite and Ras-I were not the way to go.

    By the time 2010 was done with the team needed to see it was ready to contend again and solve the WR and CB positions. Letting a Boldin go to the Ravens to pick Price and then a year later not keeping Goldson in town when you had NOTHING opposite Chung at safety were pretty big blows.

     
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    Re: Reiss's Mailbag

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    You do realize there was a lockout in 2011, correct.  How can BB go out and get Goldson and all these other players when you have a lockout that doesn't get finished until early August of 2011?

    And, the Branch money he was asking for was way over the top.  I don't think BB was prepared for Branch to ask for so much, so I guess that's on BB, but I can't blame him for certain people's selfishness.

    I think by the time 2009 rolled around, when BB dealt Vrabel and Seymour, if you're a Pats fan and don't see those moves as triggers

    We weren't winning a SB in 2008 (Brady injury) or 2009 (BB dealt off vets and a myriad of players had retired on D or got greedy and got paid - Samuel).  In no way do I want to overpay an older Law in 2005 (he was cooked by 2006) or cave into the 12 mil per year range on Samuel.

    Not with Brady due a new deal, Mankins, Wilfork by 2010.  That doesn't even count not knowing the new CBA parameters post lockout in 2011.

    And our CBs had nothing to do with losing in 2006 AFC title game in Indy.  Nor did they in SB 42 or funny enough, SB 46 (arrignton was outstanding on Cruz, Moore played well, too knocking balls loose and breaking up passes) .

    The dirty little secret for fans like you who want to pretend this is tied to drafts, need to go dig up Brady's postseason stats since 2005 or 2007.  Go look at his numbers from the last 3 AFC title games at home by themselves. There's your answer.

    Because if we win SB 42 or SB 46, morons like Dan from Boston aren't sending those emails into Mike Reiss right now.

    Look no further than how Brady has played in the postseason.

    PS the Branch situation was 2006.  The right decision to walk from a cooked Ty Law in 2005 was not only correct, but 2005.   Mason was 2006, I believe, not 2004.

    I believe Mason's wife said she liked crappy Baltimore better than Boston. No joke. That was the reason for him.  I am glad he never got a ring.  lol

     

     

    Mostly wrong there


    1. Goldson was in here for a visit and was allowed to leave over a paltry 1-2 million. Basically he'd have been here for the money we'd been paying the cut Merriweather/Sanders for 3 years in a row and we couldn't get it done and with it went the '11 Super Bowl.

    2. There was 20-25 million over 5 years for a WR in '04 or '05. Easy. Either give it to Mason and trade Branch 1 year later like we did anyhow (also coulda traded Givens to make room for Mason before he left) or give that $ to Branch 1-2 years before he was a FA wanting 40 million, he'd have been more than happy with 25 then.

    3. Law started all 6 games in '06, had 64 tacked, 4 int's, 3 forced fumbles and picked Manning in the playoffs. He was FAR from cooked... WAY off there.

    4. Brady played poorly for sure... but with a better secondary and Mason or Branch over Jackson and Caldwell and then Boldin over Tate and Price I'm pretty sure the net result is a superior team that came oh so close 4 times.

    5. Mason was a free agent summer of 2005. I said Branch was after the '05 season, but had we offered him a 5/20 extension after '04 he likely takes it.




     
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    Re: Reiss's Mailbag

    the AFC Championship game in Indy was perhaps the biggest hose job I've ever seen in any sport...period!

    It started with a bogus offensive PI call against Troy Brown at the end of the first half as the Patriots were on their way to at least a field goal and a 24 or 28-3 lead and culminated with the infamous face guarding call against Hobbs--Sorry, Swann & Stallworth wouldn't have changed that---never mind Deion Branch

     
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    well, maybe Swann & Stallworth would have made a difference...

     
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    Re: Reiss's Mailbag

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    Also, Tavon Wilson progressed well last year as a rookie. 

     




    Your level of dense is astonishing. Explain to us what don't you "get" about - Wilson could have been drafted much later? DENSE.

     

     
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    Re: Reiss's Mailbag

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    If any other GM gambled and failed as much as Belichick does at drafting, they would be fired. Belichick the GM is fortunate enough to have Belichick the coach to bail him out. -- Dan (Boston)

     



    People are finally starting to wake up. It's about time.

     
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    Re: Reiss's Mailbag

    Well I think it's curious that he relies so much on colleges that he is familiar with in some way. Years ago it was LSU, then Florida, then Alabama...now Rutgers. I get some of it - you feel you can trust a coach's opinion on a player, but that is what you hire these scouts for...they are suppossed to come away with the inside information. I seriously wonder how often he has gone totally against his scouting department's opinion, research and grading...to take a kid from his buddy's school. This year I almost got the sense he sent his son down there in a van (Rutgers) and had him hang out for a weekend and then...boom! We select two of them.

    I don't think his brilliance is in his scouting, drafting and signing of free agents - I think it's in his coaching ability. He seems like the hardest worker in the NFL. He may be one of the smartest people in the league. I think he knows what a good football player looks like, I just think he has made some simple mistakes because of ego and trying to get the better of the deal. I imagine that would happen to anyone that has won as much as he has.

    I consider him to be no better or no worse than most when picking players. I consider him to have no equal in coaching. His teams are always disciplined, well coached, conditioned, improving and tough...they aren't always able to rush the passer, cover, run the football, run as fast as the other team...but they are always put in the BEST position to win. He does that.

     
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    Re: Reiss's Mailbag

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    the frustration level which you dont get is that a 2nd round draft choice should be starting for this team...they shouldnt have to move their best CB to S...play a 3rd or 4th rotational S (Gregory) starters snaps, when they spent a 2nd round on Wilson.

    Dont even mention last years 3rd rounder Bequette not playing a single snap..



    Sh1t happens...it's how you adapt to,it...and by all accounts, bb has adapted quite well. 

    Where is it written that a 2nd round pick is an automatic starter year 1? They are expected to contribute which Wilson did, and, I think he steps up and has a good sophomore season. By year 2-3, he will be starting. That is a reasonable expectation for where he was drafted. A top 20-25 pick should start, and hightower and jones both do.

     
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    Re: Reiss's Mailbag

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

     

    Also, Tavon Wilson progressed well last year as a rookie. 

     

    Yes, Wilson and hthis years Wilson were A reach. I agree with that. However, if you forget where Wilson was picked and what his production was, I would say it was good production for a year 1 kid selected in the 2nd round. I sometimes think our expectations for players, especially rooks is a bit too high. jones and Hightower were selected in round 1, both started and were good. Mccourtselected in round 1, was good first year at cb. Same can be said for most if not all of bb's 1st round selections...round 2-3 on average I think is where you find solid contributors year 1, that are expected to crack the starting lineup by year 2-3...at least that is my expectation...




    Your level of dense is astonishing. Explain to us what don't you "get" about - Wilson could have been drafted much later? DENSE.

     

     




     
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    Re: Reiss's Mailbag

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    And I saw the Seymour and Vrabel moves as triggers for sure, a small rebuild in '09 and '10 was in order.

    The Bodden failure after a solid '09 also hurt as badly and was a good move before the injury. But you needed to replace guys like Law and Samuel... Butler, Wheatley, Wilhite and Ras-I were not the way to go.

    By the time 2010 was done with the team needed to see it was ready to contend again and solve the WR and CB positions. Letting a Boldin go to the Ravens to pick Price and then a year later not keeping Goldson in town when you had NOTHING opposite Chung at safety were pretty big blows.



    Agree, and bb would probably take some of that back. I am sure 100% of gm's would like a do over from time to time...just ask Ozzie about Sergio Kindle..it happens...I think the combo of FA bargain basement a d trading down taking value magnified the situation especially when it occurs in the same year...i also think the spotlight gets shined in part because we have picked a ton in the last 4-5 years. More chances to fail and succeed. 

     
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    Did you just see what Goldson signed for? The 2 million MORE BB would have needed to go meant BB would have just rented Goldson because it was clear. Goldson lost, we lost.  Neither has a ring in 2011 or 2012.

     

    I just don't see how this armchair GM routine every year, one year removed, from another subpar Brady playoff game, has any legs anymore.

    Also, any draft pick that didn't make it in 2005 or 2006 means they were NEVER going to make it. These teams were LOADED with veterans at that point, so it's a weak argument. 

    I am not mostly wrong. I've had this whole thing nailed since BB dealt Seymour. Apparently, this was not seen by some of our fans because they see Brady on the field. I was the one in here explaining to the pink helmets WHY BB had to deal Seymour. He had to do it to pay Wilfork, amongst others, including Brady who had to be used to get the best deal possible for the union.

    Once BB realized he couldn't get a new contract for Seymour, he dealt him on Labor Day weekened.  BB fleeced Al Davis, but that trade should have signaled to every Pats fan, that he was committing to building the team, mostly the D, back up via the draft for 2 reasons:

     

    1. FA prices for certain positions were skyrocketing.  BB had just paid Adalius Thomas big FA money in 2007. 

    2. A lockout was looming, which meant you couldn't be careless with contracts into it, because you don't know the landscape after it.

    It's not simple. All these pink helmets clearly have no understanding of basic economics and markets.   They sound like Yankees fans thinking they are entitled to every high end FA year as they open their checkbook in an uncapped league. This is also is not about personally delivering one more ring for Tom Brady either. That tone and arrogance that some our fans havescreams of entitlement and being utterly spoiled.

    Ironically, Dashon Goldson on our team in 2011 has no bearing whatsoever on why Brady throws an INT on 1st down in SB 46 after he just played a gad awful AFC title game 2 weeks prior.

    I could see if we are losing games with Brady playing well and putting up 35 points like 49ers or Ravens just did, but that's not the case whatsoever.

    If there was no cap, Kraft would just pay these extra 2 million you talk about, but you do that once or twice and it hurts the other parts of the team, then you start missing the playoffs like Steelers and Giants do every couple of years.

    PS We could not afford Boldin. No way. Bolding wanted to be the highest paid WR at that time.  BB kicked the tires, heard the price and went running. And, guess what? Good thing Kaepernick just chooked at the 5 yard line, huh?  Otherwise, it looks like that was a BUST move.

    They were never going for Boldin, not with the contracts they had due into a lockout. Please learn from others who have a much better handle on this stuff than you do.

    The only reason why you drop the names you do is because SF and Baltimore were just in the SB, but Goldson got toasted by Joe Flacco.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm sorry but the only player we likely couldn't have afforded was Seymour (unless we traded Warren a year early and went with a vet min guy and a day 2 pick splitting time at the other DE position back in '08-'10).

    All the other guys should have been here. Branch and Samuel could have been locked up 1-2 years before we had to waste the franchise on them (like they just did with Hernandez and Gronk).

    Mason and Law were 31 and 32 year old all-pro's who could have been had for 3-5 million a year if BB was willing to pay them till age 35, which he should have, but felt they might not have styaing power. They did.

    You can blame Brady all you want, but when you have Boldin and Mason up for grabs (pats were known to be 2nd to the Ravens in both situations) and instead go with Chad Jackson and Taylor Price, it cripples your team for years.

    When you can lockup a known top 15 CB who has thrived in your system, despite being outspoken and a bit of a headcase (as both Ty and Asante were) you still do it over the Wheatley, Wilhite, Ras-I, Butler, Deltha O'Neal pupu platters.

    And the 750k to 1.75k we saved when we didn't get Goldson was FAR worse than anything Brady did in the SB we still should have won. He wanted 5/25 or 1/4 and we couldn't get it done. Thats pathetic.

     
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