RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    Just put Brady under center more, please.

    Even if the Pats throw it 60% of the time going forward, if more than half of those pass plays originate from non-shotgun formations I'll be happy.

    The Pats have one of the best play-action fakers in NFL history at QB and they have almost completely taken that potentially devastating weapon out of their offensive arsenal by putting Brady back in the shotgun on what seems to be more than 80% of the offensive snaps.

    In my view, they don't make the defense have to "think" enough about what kind of play is coming...putting Brady under center more often might help.

    Hey, it's possible that BB now realizes after watching his QB play hurt for the fourth consecutive post-season (2007, 2009-2011), and coming away empty-handed again, that he needs to tell his offensive coordinator to protect the franchise a little bit more going forward. Brady's been dinged-up (or worse) heading into the playoffs four consecutive times now, and the Pats' propensity to put him back in that more vulnerable shotgun formation is one of the reasons.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    Let's not forget that Rodgers and Bree's also have a larger and more diverse group of offensive weapons. One can argue that taking all of the offensive weapons available to all 3 QB's that Wes, Gronk and Hernandez are all in the top 10 of the entire group. But not another Pat offensive weapon breaks the Top 20. Jennings, Finley, Grant, Jones, Driver, Meacham, Colston, Sproles and on and on are superior to all the Pats other than the 3 mentioned
     
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    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?:
    [QUOTE]Let's not forget that Rodgers and Bree's also have a larger and more diverse group of offensive weapons. One can argue that taking all of the offensive weapons available to all 3 QB's that Wes, Gronk and Hernandez are all in the top 10 of the entire group. But not another Pat offensive weapon breaks the Top 20. Jennings, Finley, Grant, Jones, Driver, Meacham, Colston, Sproles and on and on are superior to all the Pats other than the 3 mentioned
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]


    Yep . . . Brady has a few superb weapons, but he doesn't have a lot of them and those he does have are all short middle type receivers. Add a few more quality guys--with a bit more diversity in skills (both receiving and running)--and the Pats' offense looks (on paper) much more like the Green Bay and New Orleans offenses.  In a way, it's amazing the Pats were up in that league given they were so dependent on just three receivers.  It's a tribute to (1) Brady's skills, (2) the skills of the three receivers, and (3) the coaching. There's no way on paper that the Pats offense should have matched the Packers' or Saints' offenses . . . but it did where it counts, on the field. 






     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?:
    [QUOTE]Just put Brady under center more, please. Even if the Pats throw it 60% of the time going forward, if more than half of those pass plays originate from non-shotgun formations I'll be happy. The Pats have one of the best play-action fakers in NFL history at QB and they have almost completely taken that potentially devastating weapon out of their offensive arsenal by putting Brady back in the shotgun on what seems to be more than 80% of the offensive snaps. In my view, they don't make the defense have to "think" enough about what kind of play is coming...putting Brady under center more often might help. Hey, it's possible that BB now realizes after watching his QB play hurt for the fourth consecutive post-season (2007, 2009-2011), and coming away empty-handed again, that he needs to tell his offensive coordinator to protect the franchise a little bit more going forward. Brady's been dinged-up (or worse) heading into the playoffs four consecutive times now, and the Pats' propensity to put him back in that more vulnerable shotgun formation is one of the reasons.
    Posted by hardright[/QUOTE]

    He doesn't like being under Center.  It was such a bad move by him to announce that on WEEI that morning.   Huge mistake, because now we know it's his choice to not be under Center.  

    This is what makes the 35+ passing games and losses that should be wins so maddening.

    This is what I mean about an OC that is more in control v.s. Brady controlling O'Brien.    Hopefully, McDaniels has learned a ton since leaving here and is more mature, etc, with Brady under Center much more now.  Ugh.


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    i think coach has shown hes ready willing and able to move to the next option when it is determined that is the BEST option for the team...

    as a casual observer for many years..it is my opinion brady is still at the top of his game... in all the superbowls that brady was in... he played good to very good... and put the team in position to win... if you want to look at the welker pass...it wasnt his best but was certainly a very catchable ball...it hit him right in his hands...

    anyhow... i would still take brady...he definately has a couple more good years left..

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    Isn't one of your big complaints how Brady throws the ball too much? And yet you love Brees? Seriously? Here are their attempts for the last 5 seasons that each has started:

    Brees:
    2011- 657 attempts
    2010 - 658 attempts
    2009 - 514 attempts(only 15 games)
    2008 - 635 attempts
    2007 - 652 attempts


    Brady:
    2011 - 611 attempts
    2010 - 492 attempts
    2009 - 565 attempts
    2007 - 578 attempts
    2006 - 516 attempts


    So only once in that span has Brady thrown more then Brees, and had Brees started one more game that year, they would have been very close to even.
     
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    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?:
    [QUOTE]I don't mind at all that Rusty would prefer Rodgers and Brees more than Brady. I do struggle with his insistence that the offense and Brady is solely to blame for our recent Super Bowl losses when it's so obvious there is plenty of blame to go around.  I do think, however, the Eli Manning is currently a better big game QB than Brady. That could change again but it's hard to argue agaisnt that right now.  
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker[/QUOTE]

    I blame that oblong ball, if only one of the three fumbles the Pat's defense caused had bounced into Patriot hands we would be talking about the dominance of the Patriot defense in the post season (check the scores), instead we're having an endless back and forth.

    I wouldn't take any of these guys over Brady. We don't run a West Coast system so would either of these thrive in our more linear, pocket based offense; certainly not as well as a tower passer like Tom or Mallett.

    The Giant's use a more efficient game plan, that's what makes Eli more likely to win, they run the ball, he doesn't have to do it alone. Notice that when Brady had a running game he was considered the greatest late game QB ever, now it's Eli...

    A good carpenter doesn't blame his tools.
     
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    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB? : Montana in the SB: 4-0 11 TD's 0 INTS sorry Brady doesn't compare here...he is not Montana
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]
    Do you take into account games in which Brady got the Pats into the lead and the D failed to hold.  Is it presumed Montana is 4 - 0 only because he got the 49'ers into the lead with no credit to the D to HOLD the lead?  I recall only one game in which Montana had a squeeker.  If not for about 4 late minutes of SB game time, Brady would be 5 - 0!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    Food for thought Joe Montana and his AMAZING SB performance!

    The 1st SB had a minus 27 degree wind chill. The niners defense stomped the Benagals for most of the game. The game was very similar to our 1st SB where both QB's were "game managers". Joe had around 160 passing yard with a td...sound familiar?

    Roger Craig and Wendell Taylor(running backs) touched the ball 39 times for 230 yards and Craig scored 3 tds in the niners 2nd SB.

    Roger Craig and Tom Rathman(running backs) touched the ball over 30 times for 200 yards in the 3rd SB.

    Roger Craig and Tom Rathman(running backs) touched the ball over 40 times for 190 yards and 3 tds in the 4rth SB

    In the niners last 3 SB's the running backs touched the ball 110 times for 620 yards and 6 TD's WOW.

    Montana and the coaching staff used the running backs as the focal point of the offense and it lead to Montana throwing 11 tds to zero interceptions. If you run the ball, you help your QB. We don't.
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?:
    [QUOTE]Food for thought Joe Montana and his AMAZING SB performance! The 1st SB had a minus 27 degree wind chill. The niners defense stomped the Benagals for most of the game. The game was very similar to our 1st SB where both QB's were "game managers". Joe had around 160 passing yard with a td...sound familiar? Roger Craig and Wendell Taylor( running backs ) touched the ball 39 times for 230 yards and Craig scored 3 tds in the niners 2nd SB. Roger Craig and Tom Rathman( running backs ) touched the ball over 30 times for 200 yards in the 3rd SB. Roger Craig and Tom Rathman (running backs ) touched the ball over 40 times for 190 yards and 3 tds in the 4rth SB In the niners last 3 SB's the running backs touched the ball 110 times for 620 yards and 6 TD's WOW. Montana and the coaching staff used the running backs as the focal point of the offense and it lead to Montana throwing 11 tds to zero interceptions . If you run the ball, you help your QB. We don't.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    More food for thought...

    Benny is not Roger Craig...he's more like Jenny Craig.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB? : More food for thought... Benny is not Roger Craig...he's more like Jenny Craig.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    I agree, but 2,300 yards at 4 ypc with 33 tds and zero fumbles I say he was good enough to utilize in the Super bowl. Unfortunately in our game plan the running back position is an after thought.

    Btw its just like you to trash a productive hard nose football player on his way out the door. It is that kind of attitude that gives Boston sports fans a bad name.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB? : I agree, but 2,300 yards at 4 ypc with 33 tds and zero fumbles I say he was good enough to utilize in the Super bowl. Unfortunately in our game plan the running back position is an after thought. Btw its just like you to trash a productive hard nose football player on his way out the door. It is that kind of attitude that gives Boston sports fans a bad name.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Maybe what Nomar said has some merit, maybe there is no way to get out of Boston without getting trashed by the local media.  As a native I've got nothing but love for Benny, get paid buddy...
     
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    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?:
    [QUOTE]Food for thought Joe Montana and his AMAZING SB performance! The 1st SB had a minus 27 degree wind chill. The niners defense stomped the Benagals for most of the game. The game was very similar to our 1st SB where both QB's were "game managers". Joe had around 160 passing yard with a td...sound familiar? Roger Craig and Wendell Taylor( running backs ) touched the ball 39 times for 230 yards and Craig scored 3 tds in the niners 2nd SB. Roger Craig and Tom Rathman( running backs ) touched the ball over 30 times for 200 yards in the 3rd SB. Roger Craig and Tom Rathman (running backs ) touched the ball over 40 times for 190 yards and 3 tds in the 4rth SB In the niners last 3 SB's the running backs touched the ball 110 times for 620 yards and 6 TD's WOW. Montana and the coaching staff used the running backs as the focal point of the offense and it lead to Montana throwing 11 tds to zero interceptions . If you run the ball, you help your QB. We don't.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    Not to be picky, but what does the windchill in a dome in Detroit have to do with a QB's performance?  Also, it's Wendell Tyler, not Taylor. 

    One thing you're pointing out here is the cap era is more difficult than when Montana was playing AND the idea that Montana had one coordinator his whole career, not to mention more stability on the roster around him.

    Plop Brady back on the 49ers with Bill Walsh, no cap, etc and he's likely outdoing Montana.

    Brady is actually a better QB than Montana, but he hasn't proven that in the postseason lately.



     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    ^ Simply pointing out that temperatures that cold absolutely have a negative impact on QB's ESPECIALLY warm weather QB's like Montana. It was also his 1st or 2nd year starting if I remember, so I was comparing him to Brady in that regard. They were both more about game managing early on as opposed to winning games on their arms.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    Are you being sarcastic? It was at the Ponitac Silverdome, so unless Montana was locked out in the cold right before kick off, I don't get your point.

    I think the reason why his stats didn't look fantastic early in his career is for a few reasons, but mainly one and that reason is Jerry Rice.

    It was until 1984 where their offense really becme balanced with Roger Craig replacing Wendell Tyler full time (scaling back Tyler a bit helped the offense) and Walsh bringing in guys like John Frank, Mike Wilson, etc. WR Solomon and Cooper at TE along with Dwight Clark were already there.

    Montana had good weaponry then, stability, certainly more so than Brady. As much as we love Brown, Branch, Givens, Patten, etc, Brady's weapons aren't quite as good as what Montana had.   He also had years and years with his weapons while Brady did not.     Brown was the only mainstay type.  Branch and Givens were new, Patten a scrapheap WR pick up.

    SF was a very efficient offense from 1981-1983 (this mirrors Brady's 2001-2004), but they dind't really have the ability to overwhelm teams until 1984. Obviously, Rice coming on board in 1985 only enhanced Montana's stats.  Add in John Taylor and Brent Jones later, and their weaponry only improved.

    I think this only strengthens Brady's case against MOntana, which is the point I think you're going for.  Each have mirror images type careers, but Montana had far more stability as compared to Brady.  Cap era. This is where the dopes who say Montana had great SB games lose.  Montana had an easier platform to play due to SF easily keeping any player they wanted, or upgrading without a cap.

    The only thing Brady is missing now is performing like Montana did late in his career in SBs.

    PS In SB 19, it was foggy, rainy and damp at Stanford Stadium, so I don't really buy into Montana was only a warm weather QB. He was fine in any conditions mostly due to the West Coast offense providing a QB to keep in rhythm and unload the ball quickly.

    This is more so what Brady needs to get back to which is the Weis Hybrid West Coast Offense that WE USED TO RUN. I know you agree with this, I am just adding this in there.

    There are only two QB greats who must have good weather to be themselves: Dan Marino and Peyton Manning.





     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?:
    [QUOTE]Peyton Manning won a SB in the Pouring Rain. I think one of only a few outside SB's ever played.
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]

    There's been like 15 Super Bowls in Miami and LA alone.

    That was a weak Bears team, I don't think anyone really expected them to beat Indy. Even after the opening kickoff touchdown. Colts won that game with strong running and defense.
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    I agree, would have loved to see the Pats win this year with that same strategy. No disrespect to Manning at all but he shouldn't have won the MVP of that game.
     
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    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    One thing to remember about Montana's Super Bowls: He'd be 3-1 if Lewis Billups didn't drop a INT that hit him right in the chest at the Cincinnati goal line in SB XXIII, one play before Montana hit Rice with the game-tying TD (Cincy was up 13-6 at the time).

    Luck does play a role in a lot of cases.

    If Billups catches that ball, the now-legendary 92-yard, "hey, isn't that John Candy?" TD drive to win the game probably never happens.

    Just like if Asante catches the ball Eli floated right to him in SB XLII, or Welker and Brady are able to connect with 4 minutes left in SB XLVI, we're talking a 5-0 NE Super Bowl record with Brady & Belichick.
     
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    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB? : There's been like 15 Super Bowls in Miami and LA alone. That was a weak Bears team, I don't think anyone really expected them to beat Indy. Even after the opening kickoff touchdown. Colts won that game with strong running and defense.
    Posted by CaptainZdeno33[/QUOTE]
    Due respect, but the Bears had the #2 record in the NFL that year (and one of their losses was the last game of the season-resting starters, likely), were #3 in pts against, and #2 in pt differential.  Further, the weather couldn't have been better for them as natural weapon against the colts high powered offense. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: RUSTY, WHO WOULD YOU PREFER AS THE PATS QB?

    Agree to disagree, Dogg. They can be ranked 1st in every category for all I care, didn't think they were a Super Bowl worthy team that season. Their qb was Rex Grossman for crying out loud!

    Long time no see, where you been? You should probably take your rightful spot back from Jints, he's been keeping your seat warm for you.

     

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