Sebastian Vollmer

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SilverSun. Show SilverSun's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    News today is that Vollmer is not back; SeaBass still unsigned.  BB needs to get this done and move on to Emmanual Sanders soon!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    I have tothink it is passing the physical related. Or maybe the bonus language based on snaps played

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Rusty, I am asking a serious question here..... 

    According to the contract graphic I posted for Arrington's contract I show If they cut him after 2015 cap hit would have been $10.875 million.  Wouldn't that be an average of $3.625 million per year as a cap hit? Oh, plus the dead money of $1.625 for 2016 = $12.5 cap hit for 3 years, an average of $4.167 average for 3 years?

    And you are saying this....

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     


    7.5 guaranteed is even better than the 8.25 originally reported. Note how low the dead money is if cut after the 2015 season. Not a coincidence. This is essentially a 3 year deal guaranteed at around 2.75 per on average.  Arrington might be carrying around 2 rings by 2016 and seen as a bargain in the nickel even then. It's not like's old.

     



    We have two different averages here if they would cut Arrington after 2012.  I might be like a 5th grader reading this contract stuff so can you please explain to me how my numbers are incorrect.  Ours are different by a lot.

     

    I took his cap hit of 2013, 2014 and 2015 = $10.875 million, if they cut him after 2015, then they have to account for the dead money of 2016 of $1.625 million which totals $12.5  An average of $4.167 million per year.  You said it would be 3 years at $2.75 million average.  What am I doing wrong here? Why are you saying this is essentially a 3 year deal guaranteed at around $2.75 million?  Wouldn't he receive $10.875 million (ave of $3.625 mill) for 2013-2015 and then the Pats be charged a cap hit for 2016 of $1.625 mill, making a total of $12.5 mill, average of $4.167 million per year?

     



    TFB, you are 1000% correct with your numbers. 

     

    It is what I posted last week when I said Arringtons AAV w/b approx $4.2m, and Rusty argued with me, called me names and posted on every thread he hijacked that he bludgeoned me. 

    It is also what I posted yestday, when he called me "so dumb that it is comical". 

    Bottom line, Arringtons numbers are kind of high, makes me wonder why. I found his and Hooma's numbers really out of the norm for the Pats.

    Second bottom line, as I have been saying right along, Rusty has zero understanding of contracts in he NFL, but thinks if he calls someone names, bad mouths them on every thread he hijacks, that it makes him look smart. What a small person. 




    Ok, thanks.  I wasn't sure I knew how to read the contracts correctly.  Looking at Arrington's deal I feel they over paid for him.  I didn't see how Rusty figured it was such a good deal with him saying it was only average of $2.75 millon per year if they cut him after 3 years.   

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    if they cut Arrington after 2014 (2 years played) it is even worse. Arrington gets his $8.5M guarantee making his AAV 4.25 and the Pats suffer $3.25 in dead money....

    I understand Arrington is making good strides in the nickle, and I also agree he is very effective in the nickle. But I think I saw the Pats were in the nickle 57% of the time, making Arrington a part time player. Model citizen. Improving player. Solid player. Nothing against the guy, I am actually happy they resigned him. The deal simply strikes me as high, especially for the Pats. I wonder who they were bidding against?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    if they cut Arrington after 2014 (2 years played) it is even worse. Arrington gets his $8.5M guarantee making his AAV 4.25 and the Pats suffer $3.25 in dead money....

    I understand Arrington is making good strides in the nickle, and I also agree he is very effective in the nickle. But I think I saw the Pats were in the nickle 57% of the time, making Arrington a part time player. Model citizen. Improving player. Solid player. Nothing against the guy, I am actually happy they resigned him. The deal simply strikes me as high, especially for the Pats. I wonder who they were bidding against?




    I agree.  I like him, I'm glad he is back and I believe he is improving.  I just thought his number was high for him. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Here is what I show as Arrington's contract.. Is this correct?

     




    7.5 guaranteed is even better than the 8.25 originally reported. Note how low the dead money is if cut after the 2015 season. Not a coincidence. This is essentially a 3 year deal guaranteed at around 2.75 per on average.  Arrington might be carrying around 2 rings by 2016 and seen as a bargain in the nickel even then. It's not like's old.

     

    Backloaded, team friendly deal with a low cap hit, the biggest hits coming when the cap jumps in 2015.

    It's the kind of deal your buddy Welker should have been focusing on instead of thinking he needed to be paid off of past laurels.

    The worst year in terms of value under the cap is 2014, but it's still not egregiously bad either.

    Thank you, BB.

     



    Can you add? If Arington is cut after the 2015 season, he will have rcvd $6 million in salaries and $4.875 in bonus.  That means the Pats would have paid him $10.875 after 2015 season, AND still owe him his remaining pro rated bonus of $1.625m, meaning they would have paid him a total of $12.5m for 3 years of play. (Hence the "dead money" of $1.625 after the 2015 year). 

     

    The Pats will not cut him after 2014 and absorb $3.2m in dead money. this is not a good contract for the Pats. They DID over pay Arrington. 

    You have zero understanding of how these contracts work. It is ok that you have zero understanding, but at least stop arguing that you do so you don't keep making a fool of yourself

     

     




    I said AFTER the 2015 season, not 2014. CAN YOU READ AND COMPREHEND?

     

    Answer: NO!

    3 year deal to get him the guaranteed dollars. He's not covered or guaranteed anything past 3 years through the 2015 season.

    PERIOD.

    You are so dumb it's comical. 

    Count the seasons, Corky

    2013

    2014

    2015

    That's all Arrington is guaranteed here. 2016 is so low in dead money, he'll need to be proving he's still a top notch nickel into 2016.

    How can you be this dumb? 

    His contract does not guarantee him 4 mil per either.  You have the market cornered on being flat out naive and dumb.  Oh my god, people. Have we got a real winner here.



    You clearly have no idea how contracts work.  If he plays out the whole 4 years, he gets 4 million per year.  If he is cut at any time before that, his average salary is MORE than 4 million per year.


    He gets the 6.5 million bonus at time of signing.  So, after the 2013 season, he will have received 7.5 million for 1 year.  Avg annual salary: 7.5 million.

    After 2014, he will have received 9.5 million for 2 years.  Avg annual salary: 4.75 million.

    After 2015, he will have received 12.5 million for 3 years.  Avg annual salary: 4.17 million.

    If he's back in 2016, he will have received 16 million for 4 years. Avg annual salary: 4 million.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Here is what I show as Arrington's contract.. Is this correct?

     




    7.5 guaranteed is even better than the 8.25 originally reported. Note how low the dead money is if cut after the 2015 season. Not a coincidence. This is essentially a 3 year deal guaranteed at around 2.75 per on average.  Arrington might be carrying around 2 rings by 2016 and seen as a bargain in the nickel even then. It's not like's old.

     

    Backloaded, team friendly deal with a low cap hit, the biggest hits coming when the cap jumps in 2015.

    It's the kind of deal your buddy Welker should have been focusing on instead of thinking he needed to be paid off of past laurels.

    The worst year in terms of value under the cap is 2014, but it's still not egregiously bad either.

    Thank you, BB.

     



    Can you add? If Arington is cut after the 2015 season, he will have rcvd $6 million in salaries and $4.875 in bonus.  That means the Pats would have paid him $10.875 after 2015 season, AND still owe him his remaining pro rated bonus of $1.625m, meaning they would have paid him a total of $12.5m for 3 years of play. (Hence the "dead money" of $1.625 after the 2015 year). 

     

    The Pats will not cut him after 2014 and absorb $3.2m in dead money. this is not a good contract for the Pats. They DID over pay Arrington. 

    You have zero understanding of how these contracts work. It is ok that you have zero understanding, but at least stop arguing that you do so you don't keep making a fool of yourself

     

     




    I said AFTER the 2015 season, not 2014. CAN YOU READ AND COMPREHEND?

     

    Answer: NO!

    3 year deal to get him the guaranteed dollars. He's not covered or guaranteed anything past 3 years through the 2015 season.

    PERIOD.

    You are so dumb it's comical. 

    Count the seasons, Corky

    2013

    2014

    2015

    That's all Arrington is guaranteed here. 2016 is so low in dead money, he'll need to be proving he's still a top notch nickel into 2016.

    How can you be this dumb? 

    His contract does not guarantee him 4 mil per either.  You have the market cornered on being flat out naive and dumb.  Oh my god, people. Have we got a real winner here.

     



    You clearly have no idea how contracts work.  If he plays out the whole 4 years, he gets 4 million per year.  If he is cut at any time before that, his average salary is MORE than 4 million per year.

     


    He gets the 6.5 million bonus at time of signing.  So, after the 2013 season, he will have received 7.5 million for 1 year.  Avg annual salary: 7.5 million.

    After 2014, he will have received 9.5 million for 2 years.  Avg annual salary: 4.75 million.

    After 2015, he will have received 12.5 million for 3 years.  Avg annual salary: 4.17 million.

    If he's back in 2016, he will have received 16 million for 4 years. Avg annual salary: 4 million.




    Thank you MattC05 for the confirmation.  I clearly wasn't sure by my numbers, I assumed they were correct and I was reading the contract numbers correctly and figuring the avererage numbers correctly, but I wasn't positive.  That's why I asked multiple times if my thinking and numbers were correct. Now both you and rkarp have confirmed these numbers, Rusty has yet to reappear to answer my post where I sincerely asked him to please explain his numbers so if I was wrong I could understand why my numbers were so far off of his.  But he has yet to come back and explain how he came up with his numbers and comments of how this was such a good deal since his ave after 3 years is only $2.75 average.  I guess it's just another instance of Rusty providing false info to push his bogus agenda here.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:


    I am concerned about the cap hit and his guarantees. That's it. The bonus money is irrelevant to me.

     

    He wil never see the 16 million dollars. Period. I understand how they work just fine and see how little the dead money would be in 2016 if he's cut.  It's structured in such a way that makes it very likely Arrington is only here for 3 more years, not 4.

    He wil not be here in 2016. So, no he will not have averaged 4 million per year at all. This is what you aren't getting. 

    No, if he's cut in 2016, his average salary is not more than 4 million. YOU clearly don't get that this deal peaks in 2015 and BB can walk away in 2016.

    Show me where it says "16 million guaranteed", please.

     


    But isn't his bonus money figured into the cap hit?  If I am not mistaken, if he is cut after year 1 or year two he walks away with $16 mill in his pocket, right?  Or am I wrong here?  I'm trying to understand this.    I really don't care how much he walks away with in his pocket at any given point, it's the effect his deal has on the teams cap numbers that I am concerned about.  And as I understand it, his cap hit will never be less then $4 million per year regardless of when he is cut.  Is that correct or not?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    I agree.  I like him, I'm glad he is back and I believe he is improving.  I just thought his number was high for him.



    IMO this results from a few things.  The first is that Arrington is a top special teams contributor and BB values ST more than most.  The second is that slot corners are basically starters in today's NFL.  People are on board with giving that kind of money to rotational DL who probably won't play more snaps.  Finally I imagine the team was interested in keeping Arrington for the sake of continuity in the secondary.  The less musical chairs we have in the secondary this year the better which is why the resigning of Talib was so critical as well.  If another team was interested in Arrington (we'll never know for sure) the other reasons I just mentioned might explain why BB was willing to spend the money he did.  It is unlike NE to spend money for money's sake so I have to think if they could have gotten him for that much cheaper they would have.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    You people aren't getting it. His cap hit in 2016 is 5 million and it's only 1 million dead money if cut.. Hello?

    It is highly unlikely he'll be here for the 4 years, through 2016 with the way the back of that deal is structured.  Are we good so far? Hence, he cannot fully realize 16 million guaranteed, which means it will be impossible to have the contract average out to 4 years at 4 million.

    It says above only 7.5 is guaranteed, not 16.  BB is not paying him 16 million guaranteed and doesn't pigeonhole himself on this deal past year 3 (2015).

    Glad I could help.

     



    The disagreement between you and the other posters is obvious, but you are all talking past each other.  The issue at hand is what calculation to do if he is cut after year 3.  In that case he will have realized 12.5 million dollars and will not receive the 3.5 million base salary he is owed in 2016.  While he will only play for 3 years the cap hit is technically spread out over 4 since the dead money from the prorated portion of the signing bonus would count against 2016's cap.  Thus it depends on whether you want to divide the 12.5 by 3 or 4.  There are arguments for both (he will play for 3 years, but the cap is spread out over 4).  That appears to be the source of the difference of opinion.

     

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    You people aren't getting it. His cap hit in 2016 is 5 million and it's only 1 million dead money if cut.. Hello?

    It is highly unlikely he'll be here for the 4 years, through 2016 with the way the back of that deal is structured.  Are we good so far? Hence, he cannot fully realize 16 million guaranteed, which means it will be impossible to have the contract average out to 4 years at 4 million.

    It says above only 7.5 is guaranteed, not 16.  BB is not paying him 16 million guaranteed and doesn't pigeonhole himself on this deal past year 3 (2015).

    Glad I could help.

     

     



    The disagreement between you and the other posters is obvious, but you are all talking past each other.  The issue at hand is what calculation to do if he is cut after year 3.  In that case he will have realized 12.5 million dollars and will not receive the 3.5 million base salary he is owed in 2016.  While he will only play for 3 years the cap hit is technically spread out over 4 since the dead money from the prorated portion of the signing bonus would count against 2016's cap.  Thus it depends on whether you want to divide the 12.5 by 3 or 4.  There are arguments for both (he will play for 3 years, but the cap is spread out over 4).  That appears to be the source of the difference of opinion.

     

     




     

    That's correct, and what they're not getting is, if you look at what he's set to earn and the cap hit in 2016 with what the dead money would be in 2016 if cut, it means he'll never be here in 2016. Arrington knows this. His agent knows it. BB got him to go for 4 to spread it out a bit, but the loss for the team in 2016 is next to nothing with that dead money hit.

    The only way, again, is if NE has their a starting outside CB with a blown out leg or something in 2015, giving Arrington leverage to technically and likely be OVERPAID in 2016.  BB won't let that happen assuming maybe Talib and Dennard are still here and playing well on the outside.

    That could happen, VERY unlikely. He'll never 2016 as a Patriot, so his deal will never average 4 million over 4 years because he won't be here past 2015.

    Again, RKarp is playing checkers, the rest of us who get it, chess.

     




    you are so wrong and so far off it is funny...keep dancing.

    If he is not here in 2016 he will get $12.5 for an AAV over $4M. The dead money is his bonus of $1.625

    His AAV would NEVER be $2.75

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    I am concerned about the cap hit and his guarantees. That's it. The bonus money is irrelevant to me.

     

    He wil never see the 16 million dollars. Period. I understand how they work just fine and see how little the dead money would be in 2016 if he's cut.  It's structured in such a way that makes it very likely Arrington is only here for 3 more years, not 4.

    He wil not be here in 2016. So, no he will not have averaged 4 million per year at all. This is what you aren't getting. 

    No, if he's cut in 2016, his average salary is not more than 4 million. YOU clearly don't get that this deal peaks in 2015 and BB can walk away in 2016.

    Show me where it says "16 million guaranteed", please.

     



    How can you say "I am concerned about the cap hit and his guarantees" and then follow it up with "The bonus money is irrelevant to me"?  The bonus money is INTEGRAL to BOTH his cap hit, AND his guarantees.  The bonus is also calculated when you talk about average annual salary.

    I agree that he will be cut after 2015.  HOWEVER, his average cap charge up to that point will have been 3.625 million, AND they will have an additional cap charge of 1.625 million for a player no longer on the roster.  At NO point is his "average salary", whether you mean actual dollars paid or cap charges, "2.75 million", as you claimed.  The closest you get is his year one cap hit of 2.625 million, which cannot be viewed in a vacuum without the spectre of the Patriots future salary cap obligations.

    Every time you open your trap, you further prove how little you get NFL contracts.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    Opened the last page of this thread hoping to read that Vollmer had finally signed and find a flame war about Arrington's cap hit.  This forum is nothing if it isn't interesting.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    I have at no point said he will definitely be paid the full 16 million over 4 years.  Although there is a chance he might, if his play improves to the point where it is more worthwhile to keep him on the roster than to save 3.5 million against the cap in Year 4.

    He is only guaranteed 7.5 million if he is cut after Year One.  If they bring him back in Year 2, all of a sudden his guarantee becomes 9.5 million.  If they bring him back in Year 3, his guarantee becomes 12.5 million.

    You see the "7.5 million guaranteed" (or 8.25) and you think that's all they are going to pay him.  That is dead WRONG.  Since the cap charges are so onerous if they cut him before the final year of his deal, his actual guarantee is 12.5 million over 3 years.  Think of it as a "soft guarantee."  Legally, they are only obligated to pay him the 7.5 (or 8.25), but that is only if they cut him after one season.  For every year they bring him back, you have to add his salary for that year into the guarantee.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    Matt
    you are wasting your breath. I have explained this exactly the same week since last week, yet this dope Rusty insists I dont understand it and he does....his comments here clearly acknowledge he has no clue, but he will never admit it
    He has been wrong the entire month of March...and he doesnt even realize it!

     

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