Sebastian Vollmer

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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    I have at no point said he will definitely be paid the full 16 million over 4 years.  Although there is a chance he might, if his play improves to the point where it is more worthwhile to keep him on the roster than to save 3.5 million against the cap in Year 4.

    He is only guaranteed 7.5 million if he is cut after Year One.  If they bring him back in Year 2, all of a sudden his guarantee becomes 9.5 million.  If they bring him back in Year 3, his guarantee becomes 12.5 million.

    You see the "7.5 million guaranteed" (or 8.25) and you think that's all they are going to pay him.  That is dead WRONG.  Since the cap charges are so onerous if they cut him before the final year of his deal, his actual guarantee is 12.5 million over 3 years.  Think of it as a "soft guarantee."  Legally, they are only obligated to pay him the 7.5 (or 8.25), but that is only if they cut him after one season.  For every year they bring him back, you have to add his salary for that year into the guarantee.

     

     

    You're still saying regardless he averages 4 million per year, but that's not true if he gets cut after 2013 for example. He'd get thr 7.5 (or 8.25 which number is accurate) and only be an overpriced nickel for a year, but there is no 16 million guaranteed.

    Again, I am looking at the cap hit. I don't really care what other bonus money is in the deal that they pay him.  That's totally irrelevant to me.  I want to see how long he'll be here, his age as the contract goes, when they are ok to cut him without a huge dead money hit, etc.

    You must be all over this because Arrington isn't worth this deal in your mind.  I feel he is and his work in the slot proves he is.  16 games of Arrington in the slot will change people's minds.

    You're looking at totals (base and bonus), I am including the idea of the cap, because HELLO? it's kind of a big deal until the jump into 2015.

    Why do you think these teams are struggling to keep players or sign players right now with this ultra slow FA period? 

    It's because the way those teams structured deals so irresponsibly. That's the whole point, not what he may or may not see over the life of a deal.  Could BB cut Arrington after 2013? Sure, but why would you do that with the cap hit being manageable,  knowing he's really good in the slot?

    I am well aware that the totals with the liklehood of him being here through the 2015 season come out to over 12 million, but if hes playing well, maybe with a ring on his finger, and the cap hit doesn't get sketchy until 2015, who cares what the other bonus money is?

    It's not like he's overpaid in 2013 and 2014 before the cap jumps, unless you aren't realizing how important it is to have a quality nickel than can take on a Welker or a Cruz, etc.

     

     




    keep dancing...it is now really funny

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    I have at no point said he will definitely be paid the full 16 million over 4 years.  Although there is a chance he might, if his play improves to the point where it is more worthwhile to keep him on the roster than to save 3.5 million against the cap in Year 4.

    He is only guaranteed 7.5 million if he is cut after Year One.  If they bring him back in Year 2, all of a sudden his guarantee becomes 9.5 million.  If they bring him back in Year 3, his guarantee becomes 12.5 million.

    You see the "7.5 million guaranteed" (or 8.25) and you think that's all they are going to pay him.  That is dead WRONG.  Since the cap charges are so onerous if they cut him before the final year of his deal, his actual guarantee is 12.5 million over 3 years.  Think of it as a "soft guarantee."  Legally, they are only obligated to pay him the 7.5 (or 8.25), but that is only if they cut him after one season.  For every year they bring him back, you have to add his salary for that year into the guarantee.

     

     

    You're still saying regardless he averages 4 million per year, but that's not true if he gets cut after 2013 for example. He'd get thr 7.5 (or 8.25 which number is accurate) and only be an overpriced nickel for a year, but there is no 16 million guaranteed.

    Again, I am looking at the cap hit. I don't really care what other bonus money is in the deal that they pay him.  That's totally irrelevant to me.  I want to see how long he'll be here, his age as the contract goes, when they are ok to cut him without a huge dead money hit, etc.

    You must be all over this because Arrington isn't worth this deal in your mind.  I feel he is and his work in the slot proves he is.  16 games of Arrington in the slot will change people's minds.

    You're looking at totals (base and bonus), I am including the idea of the cap, because HELLO? it's kind of a big deal until the jump into 2015.

    Why do you think these teams are struggling to keep players or sign players right now with this ultra slow FA period? 

    It's because the way those teams structured deals so irresponsibly. That's the whole point, not what he may or may not see over the life of a deal.  Could BB cut Arrington after 2013? Sure, but why would you do that with the cap hit being manageable,  knowing he's really good in the slot?

    I am well aware that the totals with the liklehood of him being here through the 2015 season come out to over 12 million, but if hes playing well, maybe with a ring on his finger, and the cap hit doesn't get sketchy until 2015, who cares what the other bonus money is?

    It's not like he's overpaid in 2013 and 2014 before the cap jumps, unless you aren't realizing how important it is to have a quality nickel than can take on a Welker or a Cruz, etc.

     

     

     




    keep dancing...it is now really funny

     

     



    Sure.

     

    "Jets GM dream job"

    "I did not lose a bet with you twice"

    "Lombardi mulling over offer for Jets GM job" (after he blasted the Jets on WEEI 24 hours earlier, lol)

    "Dumvervil considering 4 year deal with Broncos"

    "Jets 30 million under the cap by 3.12 with ease (adjusted to 25 million as a backpedal)"

    THAT is what's funny.

     

     




    dude, yur oh for March!

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to Godvernment's comment:



    The most enlightening "comments" in this thread.

     

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    You're still saying regardless he averages 4 million per year, but that's not true if he gets cut after 2013 for example. He'd get thr 7.5 (or 8.25 which number is accurate) and only be an overpriced nickel for a year, but there is no 16 million guaranteed.



    Yes, if he gets cut after Year One, he only gets 7.5 million.  7.5 / 1 does not equal 4 million per year.  You are absolutely correct.

    I actually like Arrington as a player, and don't have a strong feeling about this deal one way or another.  I think it's a little higher than I'd be willing to go, but not absurdly so.

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    my point was that the Pats seem to be looking at low offer/high risk players. The offers they have extended, that have been made public, have been rejected except for Washington, Wilson and Svitek.

    I simply found it strange that the 2 players they seemingly broke mold for were Arrington and Hooma

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    no matter how many years he is here, 1 thru 4, the AAV of the contract is slightly over $4M...unless he is here only 1 year, then the AAV is $7.5M

    just admit it, will ya

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    You're still saying regardless he averages 4 million per year, but that's not true if he gets cut after 2013 for example. He'd get thr 7.5 (or 8.25 which number is accurate) and only be an overpriced nickel for a year, but there is no 16 million guaranteed.

     



    Yes, if he gets cut after Year One, he only gets 7.5 million.  7.5 / 1 does not equal 4 million per year.  You are absolutely correct.

     

    I actually like Arrington as a player, and don't have a strong feeling about this deal one way or another.  I think it's a little higher than I'd be willing to go, but not absurdly so.

     




    Right. So I don't know why you called me an idiot when all I am saying we have no idea if the contract will average out to 4 million per year if he's not here through the life of the deal. It would end up that way, yes, if it he stays on.

     

    It may appear higher because people bash Arrington as an outside CB, making it appear he's worse than he really is. But, with Talib coming back, it's clear BB is basically putting a premium on his skills in the slot, which is goods news because that's where he's quite good.

    Many teams are now paying a lot for nickels due to the nature of the league.

    I've actually been mocked here for saying how good he was on Cruz in SB 46, but he was.

     

     




    Question...what's it like to be mocked and made a fool of all day...everyday?

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    no matter how many years he is here, 1 thru 4, the AAV of the contract is slightly over $4M...unless he is here only 1 year, then the AAV is $7.5M

    just admit it, will ya




    Again per my previous post I think it depends how you define the average value.  What you are doing is dividing the money paid out by the number of years he plays.  An alternative would be to divide the total salary cap hit by the number of years it is on the books.  If you do that and he is cut after year 3 he counts 12.5 million against the cap over 4 years which is  3.125 a year.  Sure from Arrington's perspective he got 12.5 million in cash over 3 years, but what is more relevant to NE is the cap hit.  Like I said previously you can make arguments for both definitions, but you and Rusty appear to be arguing about 2 separate things.

     

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

     

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