Sebastian Vollmer

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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to LessPhatRex's comment:

     

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    sorry to be rude but i fear my question will get lost in the sniper war fare if i dont drop it again...does SB contract translate into 3mill grtnd for this year not inlcuding bonus/incentives?

    or am i reading it wrong? do we know yeat? thanks guys.

     




    Not sure. I don't think the cap hit is known yet. That is my main concern, too.

     

     



    Thanks! getting anxious!!!!

     

     




    I wouldn't worry about the hits too much.  Every keeper BB has had so far whether it be Talib (5 million), Vollmer or even Arrington, are solid deals which are team friendly.

     

    I don't BB would have done any of them if they weren't, mainly because he had the leverage in various ways, for each player.

    But, I am curious how it lays out.

    Might know more tommorow.

     



    Great moves by BB keeping that stellar bottom ranked pass D together.  Look at it this way.  It is very unlikely that they will be worse than 2012. 

     

     



    Yes, future HOFer Adrian Wilson and then very good McCOurty should be awful with the 2nd best nickel CB last year back (Arrington) along with the impressive Dennard at RCB. Just not looking good.  Also, with a deep and cheap CB market, just a terrible spot for the Pats especially with a loaded front 7 and improved pass rush.

     

    The Jets elite pass D that actually sucked won't even be in tact next year.  LOL!

    Who are your Safeties? Do you know? LOL!!

    Is Kenrick Ellis ready to go or do they need to baby him with Garay with Pouha gone?  Tears!

    "Pouha>Wilfork" - VIrgin Phatty (2012)

    Who is the nickel with Kylie moving to outside CB permanently as a 1st rd bust and overpaid?

    LOL!!

    Cannot be made up.

     



    Bwa ha ahahhahahahaha.. yes, all those great players adding up to a horrible pass D!  LOL.  While Kyle Wilson started for a top 5 pass D.  You can't make this up.  You just cant!  You are such a complete idiot.

     

     

     




    Yes, Kyle Wilson, as awful as he was for the Jets on the outside after Revis went down, is why the Jets allowed low passing yards.

     

    Tell us, how many points did the Jets D allow in 2012?

    LOL!

    Title of thread by end of October: "Wilson is a Joke at CB"

    http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=75216

    Yet, you're on here bragging about him on a rebuilding Jets club? The guy should be at least good at this point, but he's a dancing joke and can barely play a decent nickel. In short, he's a bust!

     

     

     



    Fewer passing TDs than the patsies.  We are talking pass D, right?  Or are you now trying to change the discussion AGAIN.  You seem to do that when you get bludgeoned.  Kyle Wilson was a top 10 CB using oposing QB rating.  Moron.

     

     




    Umm, pass Ds are listed as based on YARDS, not TDs. Nice try.

     

    Pats>Jets

    Enjoy replacing your entire D. Brady and the Pats will look forward to shredding it TWICE for 50 points+ in 2013.

    Rex and that embarrassing joke of a D will be gone soon enough.

     

    Umm, pass Ds are listed as based on YARDS, not TDs. Nice try.

    Can I reuse this a few times?

     

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    Read this quote on Seabass on an espn forum in regards to the language in his contract and hoping he maxes out his deal meaning he plays everygame.. Had a good chuckle..

     

    The back is always going to be an issue. Bad backs don't go away.  
     
    Well, Laurence Maroney went away, but beyond that....

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    Dude, I didn't pull out a calculator. THe cap hits in 2013 and 2014 are what?  Then average the hit in 2015.

     

    It's not a 4 million average cap hit.

    PCM's average is correct.  BB is putting on a clinic. Sit back and enjoy it instead of playing semantics with cap hits and total contract worth averages.

     



    This is why I'm not letting it go over what you think is minor differences:  Dead money is bad.  It's cap charges for somebody who's not playing for you.  You can't add in 2015 to average out the total cap charge over 3 years, because he only gave you 2.  That means you have to pay a replacement, which bumps that number up more.

     

    I frankly don't care how many years the total cap hit is spread over; I care about the actual cap dollars he cost, and the actual years he played for us.  This is how anyone who understands the salary cap views contracts.



    Matt is 100% correct. 

    Sorry PCM, but Matt is spot on with this analysis (which I also mentioned last week and yesterday)

    Rusty, still oh for March

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:

    Read this quote on Seabass on an espn forum in regards to the language in his contract and hoping he maxes out his deal meaning he plays everygame.. Had a good chuckle..

     

    The back is always going to be an issue. Bad backs don't go away.  
     
    Well, Laurence Maroney went away, but beyond that....



    ROFL

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    Due to your total lack of understanding on how the cap works, you are 100% contradicting yourself by saying all you care about is cap hits, yet you complain about salary cap hell?

    We dont yet know what Vollmers cap number is for 2013. We have a basic understanding that he is getting about an $8M signing bonus. We also have some information coming out that his base salary for 2013 is $1.5-$2.0M. If Vollmer plays in 16 games, he may have an additional 500k bonus. We have heard that if he makes the pro bowl, he may have an additional $1m bonus. if this comes to fruition, Vollmers cap hit COULD BE closer $4.5-$5.5

    That is why I posted earlier, where as we normally see the Pats carry approx $5M in "carry over" money, due to the bonus language in some of the contracts we may see the Pats "carry over" closer to $7m this year.

    why do you bring the Jets into every conversation? what do the Jets have to do with Vollmer resigning?

     

     

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     


    Matt is 100% correct. 

     

    Sorry PCM, but Matt is spot on with this analysis (which I also mentioned last week and yesterday)

     

     

     



    That is an opinion.  Not a fact.  First of all we were both wrong about proration of the signing bonus after a guy is cut.  I thought it could still be prorated for the life of the contract and you said it couldn't be prorated at all.  Technically per the artice prolate posted if you cut a guy after June 1st you can spread out his dead money hit over 2 years if you want.

     

    The more important point here is how to view Arrington's contract.  I agree that the cap implications for cutting Arrington before the end of the first 3 seasons are probably not worth it to the team.  However after year 3 he can be cut with only 1.625 million in dead money which would be on the books for 2016.  Up to that point his average cap hit for the first 3 years is only 3.625 million.  I believe after that season if BB thinks Kyle has improved enough to also play on the outside he will keep him at his year 4 cap hit of 5.625 million (which is reasonable for an outside corner).  Otherwise he will ask him to take a paycut or be cut or he will extend him.

    If Kyle is cut after year 3 Matt is correct that he would count for 12.5 million against the cap while playing for only 3 seasons, but it is also a fact that that cap hit is spread out over 4.  This is in fact an important distinction because cap hits that are spread out can be beneficial to a team from a flexibility standpoint.  Consider 2 million in dead money that can either count as 2 million one year or 1 million in 2 consecutive years.  The former represents roughly 1.6% of the cap in that one year (2/123) whereas the latter is only .8% of the total cap dollars for 2 years (2/246) if you assume a flat cap (which is a conservative assumption).  You and Matt's opinion that the best way to talk about cap hits is relative to how long the player played for team is just that.  An opinion.  I am not making a value judgement either way.  I am just pointing out that you and Rusty's disagreement is based mostly on a difference of arithmetic which is based on a difference of opinion not fact.

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

     


    Matt is 100% correct. 

     

    Sorry PCM, but Matt is spot on with this analysis (which I also mentioned last week and yesterday)

     

     

     

     



    That is an opinion.  Not a fact.  First of all we were both wrong about proration of the signing bonus after a guy is cut.  I thought it could still be prorated for the life of the contract and you said it couldn't be prorated at all.  Technically per the artice prolate posted if you cut a guy after June 1st you can spread out his dead money hit over 2 years if you want.

     

    The more important point here is how to view Arrington's contract.  I agree that the cap implications for cutting Arrington before the end of the first 3 seasons are probably not worth it to the team.  However after year 3 he can be cut with only 1.625 million in dead money which would be on the books for 2016.  Up to that point his average cap hit for the first 3 years is only 3.625 million.  I believe after that season if BB thinks Kyle has improved enough to also play on the outside he will keep him at his year 4 cap hit of 5.625 million (which is reasonable for an outside corner).  Otherwise he will ask him to take a paycut or be cut or he will extend him.

    If Kyle is cut after year 3 Matt is correct that he would count for 12.5 million against the cap while playing for only 3 seasons, but it is also a fact that that cap hit is spread out over 4.  This is in fact an important distinction because cap hits that are spread out can be beneficial to a team from a flexibility standpoint.  Consider 2 million in dead money that can either count as 2 million one year or 1 million in 2 consecutive years.  The former represents roughly 1.6% of the cap in that one year (2/123) whereas the latter is only .8% of the total cap dollars for 2 years (2/246) if you assume a flat cap (which is a conservative assumption).  You and Matt's opinion that the best way to talk about cap hits is relative to how long the player played for team is just that.  An opinion.  I am not making a value judgement either way.  I am just pointing out that you and Rusty's disagreement is based mostly on a difference of arithmetic which is based on a difference of opinion not fact.




    I didnt see the article you mentioned...too much Rusty non sense on the thread for me to find it.

    I am not sure that the June 1st date is a hard and fast rule. Dates can be written into contract language. Some players have it written into the contract they will be cut BEFORE free agency begins, so they have a better chance of hooking on with another team.

    So I think that can go either way....

    We seem to be in agreement however, if Arington gets cut in year 1, he gets his 8.5M. If he gets cut in year 2, he gets his $8.5M. If he gets cut in year 3, he gets $12.5M

    Regardless, imo he rcvd a deal that was more than his performance demanded. I simply found it odd that he did, while all others didnt (except Hooma). I also wonder who the Pats were negotiating against for Arringtons services.

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

     


    Matt is 100% correct. 

     

    Sorry PCM, but Matt is spot on with this analysis (which I also mentioned last week and yesterday)

     

     

     

     



    That is an opinion.  Not a fact.  First of all we were both wrong about proration of the signing bonus after a guy is cut.  I thought it could still be prorated for the life of the contract and you said it couldn't be prorated at all.  Technically per the artice prolate posted if you cut a guy after June 1st you can spread out his dead money hit over 2 years if you want.

     

    The more important point here is how to view Arrington's contract.  I agree that the cap implications for cutting Arrington before the end of the first 3 seasons are probably not worth it to the team.  However after year 3 he can be cut with only 1.625 million in dead money which would be on the books for 2016.  Up to that point his average cap hit for the first 3 years is only 3.625 million.  I believe after that season if BB thinks Kyle has improved enough to also play on the outside he will keep him at his year 4 cap hit of 5.625 million (which is reasonable for an outside corner).  Otherwise he will ask him to take a paycut or be cut or he will extend him.

    If Kyle is cut after year 3 Matt is correct that he would count for 12.5 million against the cap while playing for only 3 seasons, but it is also a fact that that cap hit is spread out over 4.  This is in fact an important distinction because cap hits that are spread out can be beneficial to a team from a flexibility standpoint.  Consider 2 million in dead money that can either count as 2 million one year or 1 million in 2 consecutive years.  The former represents roughly 1.6% of the cap in that one year (2/123) whereas the latter is only .8% of the total cap dollars for 2 years (2/246) if you assume a flat cap (which is a conservative assumption).  You and Matt's opinion that the best way to talk about cap hits is relative to how long the player played for team is just that.  An opinion.  I am not making a value judgement either way.  I am just pointing out that you and Rusty's disagreement is based mostly on a difference of arithmetic which is based on a difference of opinion not fact.

     




    Thank you for again explaining to them that their premise of a definitive 4 per average is something we don't and won't due to how BB handles Arrginton on the back end of his deal.

     

    They don't get stuff like that, apparently.

    They're probably tuned into Tony Mazz on 98.5 right now as he's whining about how scary it is that BB does't have enough draft picks because he's too stupid that BB already has his team built and at the money he controls.

    We have a poriton of our fanbase that still doesn't get it. You either get it or you take cues from people like Tony Mazz.

    All it takes is one mediahead to state a premise in print or on air and 65% of the online pink helmets race in and knee jerk agreement with it.

    Sad, but true.

     



    step aside son and let the men have an intelligent conversation. go continue having an arguement about the Jets pass defense with your enemies

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    This may be off the current topic here a little but does anyone know what Vollmers deal was for? I apologize if its been posted here already. Thanks

    When healthy he's a top 3 right tackle and can be elite on the left if he has to fill in there. The Patriots are in great shape at the tackle position if this guy stays healthy.

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to sporter81's comment:

    This may be off the current topic here a little but does anyone know what Vollmers deal was for? I apologize if its been posted here already. Thanks

    When healthy he's a top 3 right tackle and can be elite on the left if he has to fill in there. The Patriots are in great shape at the tackle position if this guy stays healthy.




    go over to the Vollmer thred. I posted it over there

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    The June 1 rule comes from the CBA.  There is one exception that allows a team to treat up to two players as if they were cut on June 2 even though they were cut before then.  This allows you to move dead money out one season for two players who were cut ahead of June 2.  All other players cut before June 2 have their dead money counted against the cap in the upcoming season.  All cut on or after June 2 have their dead money counted against the cap for the season after the upcoming season.

    Essentially, this rule means that players cut before camp have to have their dead money counted to the cap for the upcoming season, but those cut during camp and the preseason have their dead money delayed until the following season.  

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    The June 1 rule comes from the CBA.  There is one exception that allows a team to treat up to two players as if they were cut on June 2 even though they were cut before then.  This allows you to move dead money out one season for two players who were cut ahead of June 2.  All other players cut before June 2 have their dead money counted against the cap in the upcoming season.  All cut on or after June 2 have their dead money counted against the cap for the season after the upcoming season.

    Essentially, this rule means that players cut before camp have to have their dead money counted to the cap for the upcoming season, but those cut during camp and the preseason have their dead money delayed until the following season.  




    thank you. so are we correct to assume for instance that the Pats have not yet cut anyone? they have simply not signed their own FA's?

     

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    The June 1 rule comes from the CBA.  There is one exception that allows a team to treat up to two players as if they were cut on June 2 even though they were cut before then.  This allows you to move dead money out one season for two players who were cut ahead of June 2.  All other players cut before June 2 have their dead money counted against the cap in the upcoming season.  All cut on or after June 2 have their dead money counted against the cap for the season after the upcoming season.

    Essentially, this rule means that players cut before camp have to have their dead money counted to the cap for the upcoming season, but those cut during camp and the preseason have their dead money delayed until the following season.  

     




    thank you. so are we correct to assume for instance that the Pats have not yet cut anyone? they have simply not signed their own FA's?

     

     



    I don't think they've actually cut anyone under contract since the season ended.  Cuts made on or after June 2  last year would have dead money counting against this year's cap though.  If they used the exception for up to two players last spring, they could also have some dead money for up to two other players who were cut before June 2 last year.

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    By the way, in season cuts count against the cap for the next season.  

    And Lloyd was cut.  So ther's at least one.

     

     

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