Sebastian Vollmer

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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    By the way, in season cuts count against the cap for the next season.  

    And Lloyd was cut.  So ther's at least one.

     


    On that note I think chances are increasing that Lloyd returns.  I mean the FA chatter on this guy has been nonexisent since he was cut. Since we tried to get him to restructure as opposed to cutting him outright I have to believe we would take him back at the right price and there doesn't seem to be much of a market for him.

     

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

    By the way, in season cuts count against the cap for the next season.  

    And Lloyd was cut.  So ther's at least one.

     

     


    On that note I think chances are increasing that Lloyd returns.  I mean the FA chatter on this guy has been nonexisent since he was cut. Since we tried to get him to restructure as opposed to cutting him outright I have to believe we would take him back at the right price and there doesn't seem to be much of a market for him.

     



    I think this is possible.  Re signing him, however, won't remove any dead money from the old contract.  The new contract will be treated completely independently, just as if Lloyd were a new player to the team.

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:


    I think this is possible.  Re signing him, however, won't remove any dead money from the old contract.  The new contract will be treated completely independently, just as if Lloyd were a new player to the team.



    Correct.  But I believe if he signs a minimum deal that plus the dead money still represents cap savings in comparison to what he was slated to make this year.

     

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    Yep, that's right.  They can still end up in a better cap position by cutting and resigning than they would have been in had they paid the bonus and kept his old contract.  All depends on what they can sign him for next, if they decide to sign him.

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    With regard to the Lloyd situation, I am just wondering how you would feel if your boss uses every rule available to avoid paying you bonuses you thought was in your contract, save some loophole, and asks you to work at reduced wages next year? How would anyone with any pride react ? Did that make you feel you are a valued employee?

     

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

     

    With regard to the Llyod situation, I am just wondering how you would feel if your boss uses every rule available to avoid paying you bonuses you thought was in your contract, save some loophole, and asks you to work at reduced wages next year? How would anyone with any pride react ? Did that make you feel you are a valued employee?

     



    Of course it's gonna pizz you off to some degree . . . but it's also something that a lot of people can get over.  We've all had benefits (pensions) taken away and things like that and we get over it.  Also, when you're in a big-money profession it's one of the trade offs you have to make.  Lots of money, but also lots of demands on you and some risk that if you don't deliver you won't get the bucks you were hoping for. 

     

    I feel worse for the average workers who have their pension cuts . . . but I get your point . . . and the Pats do take some risk that players they want will just be too pizzed off to sign (or to give their all if they do sign)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nomadfan. Show nomadfan's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

     

    With regard to the Llyod situation, I am just wondering how you would feel if your boss uses every rule available to avoid paying you bonuses you thought was in your contract, save some loophole, and asks you to work at reduced wages next year? How would anyone with any pride react ? Did that make you feel you are a valued employee?

     



    Of course it's gonna pizz you off to some degree . . . but it's also something that a lot of people can get over.  We've all had benefits (pensions) taken away and things like that and we get over it.  Also, when you're in a big-money profession it's one of the trade offs you have to make.  Lots of money, but also lots of demands on you and some risk that if you don't deliver you won't get the bucks you were hoping for. 

     

    I feel worse for the average workers who have their pension cuts . . . but I get your point . . . and the Pats do take some risk that players they want will just be too pizzed off to sign (or to give their all if they do sign)

     




    I can relate to how some players must feel, myself as an average working stiff who had worked for and knew enough nightmare bosses and unappreciative but successful companies. I just feel the uncritical lapping up of BB and the Patriots way of doing business by some too matter of fact and one sided. You are fans of some players and not the sharp accountant and lawyer at the front office. You don't see anyone buying jersey with the name of Robert Kraft or BB. I note with interest that Kraft is worth 2.3 billions dollars, and he is not at risk himself for post concussion syndrome or knees so damaged that he can no longer walk.

     

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    Vollmer is a company man.  His thanks to Kraft and BB suggest that he is ok with a contract that pays him in accordance with his production.  Imagine that!  Granted, it has been reported that he really wanted to come back to NE and maybe there wasn't a better offer out there - especially w/ his back problems.  But that conract is definitely a team-friendly "prove it to me" deal that is rare in the NFL.  The guy is a top RT after all.  Good for Sebastian.

     
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    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

     

    With regard to the Llyod situation, I am just wondering how you would feel if your boss uses every rule available to avoid paying you bonuses you thought was in your contract, save some loophole, and asks you to work at reduced wages next year? How would anyone with any pride react ? Did that make you feel you are a valued employee?

     



    Of course it's gonna pizz you off to some degree . . . but it's also something that a lot of people can get over.  We've all had benefits (pensions) taken away and things like that and we get over it.  Also, when you're in a big-money profession it's one of the trade offs you have to make.  Lots of money, but also lots of demands on you and some risk that if you don't deliver you won't get the bucks you were hoping for. 

     

    I feel worse for the average workers who have their pension cuts . . . but I get your point . . . and the Pats do take some risk that players they want will just be too pizzed off to sign (or to give their all if they do sign)

     




    I can relate to how some players must feel, myself as an average working stiff who had worked for and knew enough nightmare bosses and unappreciative but successful companies. I just feel the uncritical lapping up of BB and the Patriots way of doing business by some too matter of fact and one sided. You are fans of some players and not the sharp accountant and lawyer at the front office. You don't see anyone buying jersey with the name of Robert Kraft or BB. I note with interest that Kraft is worth 2.3 billions dollars, and he is not at risk himself for post concussion syndrome or knees so damaged that he can no longer walk.

     



    I actually agree to a large extent Nomad--and it's one reason I was pro player during the lockout.  I do think, though, that most of the "tough" dealing the Pats do is more related to managing the salary cap than them being "cheap." Because of the salary cap, Kraft is going to spend a fixed  amount on player salaries every year, so he really can't be either cheap or generous with players' aggregate pay.  It's more about who gets what than about how much the players (in total) get. 

    I will say I find certain posters' glee in the Pats' having "leverage" over players a bit off-putting. I don't like the idea of the Pats' sticking it to players just because they can.  But I'm not sure that's what the Pats are doing.  Again, I think it's more about allocating the fixed dollars they can spend on salaries in the best way to produce a winner. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from nomadfan. Show nomadfan's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    I do think, though, that most of the "tough" dealing the Pats do is more related to managing the salary cap than them being "cheap." Because of the salary cap, Kraft is going to spend a fixed  amount on player salaries every year, so he really can't be either cheap or generous with players' aggregate pay.  It's more about who gets what than about how much the players (in total) get. 

    Again, I think it's more about allocating the fixed dollars they can spend on salaries in the best way to produce a winner. 




    Thoretically , that is what the Pats and BB want to do, but there are quite a few big misses like the 6 millions BB wasted on Ochocinco.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Sebastian Vollmer

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

     

    With regard to the Llyod situation, I am just wondering how you would feel if your boss uses every rule available to avoid paying you bonuses you thought was in your contract, save some loophole, and asks you to work at reduced wages next year? How would anyone with any pride react ? Did that make you feel you are a valued employee?

     



    Of course it's gonna pizz you off to some degree . . . but it's also something that a lot of people can get over.  We've all had benefits (pensions) taken away and things like that and we get over it.  Also, when you're in a big-money profession it's one of the trade offs you have to make.  Lots of money, but also lots of demands on you and some risk that if you don't deliver you won't get the bucks you were hoping for. 

     

    I feel worse for the average workers who have their pension cuts . . . but I get your point . . . and the Pats do take some risk that players they want will just be too pizzed off to sign (or to give their all if they do sign)

     




    I can relate to how some players must feel, myself as an average working stiff who had worked for and knew enough nightmare bosses and unappreciative but successful companies. I just feel the uncritical lapping up of BB and the Patriots way of doing business by some too matter of fact and one sided. You are fans of some players and not the sharp accountant and lawyer at the front office. You don't see anyone buying jersey with the name of Robert Kraft or BB. I note with interest that Kraft is worth 2.3 billions dollars, and he is not at risk himself for post concussion syndrome or knees so damaged that he can no longer walk.

     

     



    I actually agree to a large extent Nomad--and it's one reason I was pro player during the lockout.  I do think, though, that most of the "tough" dealing the Pats do is more related to managing the salary cap than them being "cheap." Because of the salary cap, Kraft is going to spend a fixed  amount on player salaries every year, so he really can't be either cheap or generous with players' aggregate pay.  It's more about who gets what than about how much the players (in total) get. 

     

    I will say I find certain posters' glee in the Pats' having "leverage" over players a bit off-putting. I don't like the idea of the Pats' sticking it to players just because they can.  But I'm not sure that's what the Pats are doing.  Again, I think it's more about allocating the fixed dollars they can spend on salaries in the best way to produce a winner. 

     




    Right.  I have no idea why this is so hard to understand for some of our fans.  BB also traded for Haynesworth and Ocho, so they weren't even his contracts. They were brought on board because they weren't high risk as contracts.

     

    No one GM even had the luxury of taking flyers on those kinds of high risk high reward types off a lockout because the majority of teams aren't even managed anywhere near as well as the Pats are by BB.

    These are luxury moves or a cherry on top kind of a move. They weren't meant to be cornerstone moves. Bryan Cox wasn't a cornerstone guy, nor was Roman Phifer, Ty Poole, Robert Traylor, etc.

    BB had plenty of misses back in the SB years, but the difference was they won the SBs back then.

    People focus on what maybe didn't turn out as well had hoped and completely disregard the big picture, as well as to why BB even positions himself the way he does, whether it be Corey Dillon. Moss, or Haynesworth.

    These are strategic moves based on risk and value.    There are no guarantees.

     

     



    sure there are guarantees: tom brady and a perenially bad division!

    covers up a lot of mistakes and makes tight-fistedness look prudent but both can't last forever-

     

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