So I watched some film . . .

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to RogerLT's comment:
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    In response to coolade2's comment:
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    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    Pro there seems to be something missing in these photos, did the tight end go in motion and the line  not shift to the right?

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    Roger, they've got two TE/FB/H-back-type players on the offensive right side.  One is lined up in the traditional TE position and one more in a FB/H-back position behind the tackle.  The TE blocks Harmon (safety) who lines up in front of him (Pats have eight in the box).  The H-back and right tackle together prevent Vellano from getting to the play from the backside.  This allows the right guard to lock up with Sopoaga and frees the center to take on Hightower. The left guard and left tackle match up with the two Jones (Chris and Chandler).  Nink and Spikes are both left unblocked, but Nink is too far to the backside to matter.  I guess there's a question whether Spikes could have either abandoned the backside sooner or taken a different angle to the ball career . . . but Spikes was lined up away from the point of attack. 

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     The two snapshots are just two plays, so it's unfair to really judge players based on just those two snapshots.  But the big difference is that in the earlier photo on the playside, Kelly occupies two blockers leaving Mayo untouched to make the tackle in the backfield.  On the later photo, Soapoaga is single teamed, leaving the center free to attack Hightower.  No one gets off their blocks (both Kelly and Wilfork are great at sliding off their blocks and getting to the RB, obstructing his path if not tackling him). This leaves no one to tackle the runner, Tate, who scampers to the endzone 20 yards away. 

     

    Also note the spacing.  Chris Jones and Soapoaga are really getting driven to the side leaving a big hole.  In the earlier photo, the hole is contracting because the Pats defenders are collapsing everything to the middle. 



    Actually, Sopoage is doing about as well as Wilfork in that photo. 

    The thing I was coached, and always coached, it to keep your numbers to the endzone. You don't ever want to get turned. 

    The person who is really failing, hard, in that sequence is Jones (#94). The RB even takes off right through the spot he vacated.

    Here is a hint for breaking it down, Prolate, don't watch the relative distance between players only, but also watch the relative distance between the players and the hashmarks. If you look, Sopoaga is actually pushing his man into the hole. He starts out over the left hashmark and ends about a yard or two to the right of that. He's actually advanced a yard upfield into the backfield too. He won his battle. He didn't dominate, but he won.

    Yes his numbers have turned after the RB is through the hole, but he is already turning to pursue the RB at that point. He is breaking it off. While the RB was behind the LOS he controlled his man. 

    Chris Jones actually gets taken so far to the side that he is almost running into Chandler Jones. Moreover, his numbers are turned to the sideline from the get go. 

    Hightower is basically swallowed up. The Texans are (surprise) running away from Spikes' side. 

    The two keys here would have been either Hightower closing the hole by pushing his man back, or by Jones keeping the hole pinched, forcing the RB to run into Spikes. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    There is no holding here. You are allowed to grab any part of a player on his frame (no head, arms, or legs) so long as you release it. That is less than 1 second of film ... that counts as release. 

    IF those guys don't want that happening.... they shouldn't let their man lock onto them. 

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to HeygangLH's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hey Vince lamobardi or Tom Landry...you knuckleheads talking like you know football.Have any of you actually ever played a down of football in your lives??Or are you just another Colin Cowherd want to be??

    fair question.

    I bet they don't answer!

    [/QUOTE]

    I have. And I've coached it. 

    Specifically, I've coached defensive line and offensive line, among other things.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to zbellino's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     The two snapshots are just two plays, so it's unfair to really judge players based on just those two snapshots.  But the big difference is that in the earlier photo on the playside, Kelly occupies two blockers leaving Mayo untouched to make the tackle in the backfield.  On the later photo, Soapoaga is single teamed, leaving the center free to attack Hightower.  No one gets off their blocks (both Kelly and Wilfork are great at sliding off their blocks and getting to the RB, obstructing his path if not tackling him). This leaves no one to tackle the runner, Tate, who scampers to the endzone 20 yards away. 

     

    Also note the spacing.  Chris Jones and Soapoaga are really getting driven to the side leaving a big hole.  In the earlier photo, the hole is contracting because the Pats defenders are collapsing everything to the middle. 

     

     



    Actually, Sopoage is doing about as well as Wilfork in that photo. 

     

     

    The thing I was coached, and always coached, it to keep your numbers to the endzone. You don't ever want to get turned. 

    The person who is really failing, hard, in that sequence is Jones (#94). The RB even takes off right through the spot he vacated.

    Here is a hint for breaking it down, Prolate, don't watch the relative distance between players only, but also watch the relative distance between the players and the hashmarks. If you look, Sopoaga is actually pushing his man into the hole. He starts out over the left hashmark and ends about a yard or two to the right of that. He's actually advanced a yard upfield into the backfield too. He won his battle. He didn't dominate, but he won.

    Yes his numbers have turned after the RB is through the hole, but he is already turning to pursue the RB at that point. He is breaking it off. While the RB was behind the LOS he controlled his man. 

    Chris Jones actually gets taken so far to the side that he is almost running into Chandler Jones. Moreover, his numbers are turned to the sideline from the get go. 

    Hightower is basically swallowed up. The Texans are (surprise) running away from Spikes' side. 

    The two keys here would have been either Hightower closing the hole by pushing his man back, or by Jones keeping the hole pinched, forcing the RB to run into Spikes. 



    Thanks Z.  I got that right in one of my later posts after I watched the film a little closer and noticed that Sopoaga does actually get closer to the hole and most of the separation is because of Jones getting pushed about three yards to his right.  

    Good to get some input from someone who's actually coached this.  Was hoping you or Low-Football-IQ might join in the discussion.  I think you are the only two I know of on this site who actually have coaching experience. 

     What do you think of Hightower's performance on this play? Should he be able to drive the center back?  Or is his responsibility more to avoid the block or slide off of it?

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    I have no idea. I can say he should in some circumstances slip that block, but we don't know what his responsibilities were coming into the play. If he is in man on the RB, then he is doing barely adequate. If he is in zone, he is doing an adequate job. If Spikes is blitzing on that play ... then he is doing ok too. 

    Ideally, you'd like to think your 270lb tank can slip a center ... but I won't hang it all on him.

    What i've seen, and that matters, is that NE's line is divided. Vellano is an ok run defender (he actually draws two blockers to his side here ... though that could be misdirection. Sopoaga is at least a solid run defender too. At least from what I've seen. 

    Jones has to come off the field on rushing downs. He is a nifty pass rusher (he wsa better earlier in the season) but he is a liability in run defense. 

    Analyzing defensive responsibility is hair rasing man. Even after the play ... even sometimes when you KNOW what the play call was. There is so much going on during these coverage schemes, especially given how sophisticated modern offenses are. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to HeygangLH's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    OK Z- You pass muster...what about the rest of them?

    And yes of course Leon played the greatest game ever played and coached as well.

    I've forgotten more about football then most of you will ever know.

     But discussing X's and O's in a "fan" forum? Most of thses guys just want to talk about how great Brady used to be way back when and really don't grasp the game. Like BABE for instance. Perfect example.

    [/QUOTE]


    Wow. You are pretty humble dude. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SilverSun. Show SilverSun's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to wozzy's comment:
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    In response to portfolio1's comment:
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    THis is exactly what I was saying in the threads knocking soem of the LBs esp Hightower.

    Also, Wozz poinited out some plays where Jones lines up inside. I think there we had Carter outside and Jones inside to give us some real pass rush a bit like some things the Giants did circa 2007. It is a good package to use at times.

    So how do we "fix" the run D for the playoffs? I think it ends up being schemes and gicing up something to take away something. Taking away some of thye passing game and not being too concernedf with the running game is not what I like but it might be the thing to do in many circumstances. It does tend to force the other team to have longer, mistake free drives. And with the drives being longer (more plays) it means that there are likely more 3rd downs where we can try to set a D for that one play to end the threat.

    THis means our O MUST be effective and put up the points.

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    Agreed, the O must be effective and hyper efficient, the defense must make up for the weaknesses by blitzing heavily and opportunistically, and like you say, give the opposition a chance to make a mistake and hopefully cause turnovers which are the great equalizer.

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    +2 Woz!  The key is more blitzing to cause turnovers, since we can't physically match up well on D due to injuries.  BB is a read and react guy though, so he needs to adjuct his mindset drastically.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I have no idea. I can say he should in some circumstances slip that block, but we don't know what his responsibilities were coming into the play. If he is in man on the RB, then he is doing barely adequate. If he is in zone, he is doing an adequate job. If Spikes is blitzing on that play ... then he is doing ok too. 

    Ideally, you'd like to think your 270lb tank can slip a center ... but I won't hang it all on him.

    What i've seen, and that matters, is that NE's line is divided. Vellano is an ok run defender (he actually draws two blockers to his side here ... though that could be misdirection. Sopoaga is at least a solid run defender too. At least from what I've seen. 

    Jones has to come off the field on rushing downs. He is a nifty pass rusher (he wsa better earlier in the season) but he is a liability in run defense. 

    Analyzing defensive responsibility is hair rasing man. Even after the play ... even sometimes when you KNOW what the play call was. There is so much going on during these coverage schemes, especially given how sophisticated modern offenses are. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Good thread guys...

    Z the first Texans touchdown was a mirror image of this play to the other side and Vellano had the same results.  Both Vellano and Jones need to come off on running downs, unfortunately we don't have many options on the roster.  Maybe Siliga and Soapoga in the four man front is our best option at this point, but I get the feeling BB wants to keep both or at least one healthy to play nose tackle going into the playoffs, there is no answer here except for the unit as a whole to play better and rachet up the turnovers.

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .


    I still say Marcus Forston should get a shot.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    I finally had a chance to catch the coaches film as well ( only the 2nd time I have watched this season, but what an advantage in seeing what is going on)

    What I feel is lost watching the game live and even on replay, that is very evident in the coaches film is just how injured Spikes is...He is noticeably limping most of the game after each play, and is moving laterally very gingerly, almost dragging the leg. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to HeygangLH's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hey Vince lamobardi or Tom Landry...you knuckleheads talking like you know football.Have any of you actually ever played a down of football in your lives??Or are you just another Colin Cowherd want to be??

    fair question.

    I bet they don't answer!

    [/QUOTE]

    I have. And I've coached it. 

    Specifically, I've coached defensive line and offensive line, among other things.

    [/QUOTE]

    Leon, you got OWNED here!!!!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    HOPE!!!

    Siliga looked very good today, Pro take a look at today's game film against the Browns.  They played the four man front with Siliga playing the Wilfork role lining up over the center often, they were stout against the run, not necessarily great against the pass but solid.

    All the people moaning about Hightower have no comment about him today, he easily lead us in tackles, he got screwed on an early turnover opportunity when the zebras blew an early whistle... hope for the defense.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    HOPE!!!

    Siliga looked very good today, Pro take a look at today's game film against the Browns.  They played the four man front with Siliga playing the Wilfork role lining up over the center often, they were stout against the run, not necessarily great against the pass but solid.

    All the people moaning about Hightower have no comment about him today, he easily lead us in tackles, he got screwed on an early turnover opportunity when the zebras blew an early whistle... hope for the defense.

     



    Yeah, Wozzy, I noticed that--they used two tackles instead of three with Siliga replacing Sopoaga and Vellano (Chris Jones was the other tackle).  Can't wait for the film to come out (usually it's out on Tuesday night).  I'll be in Charlotte, though, and won't be able to access it until I get back to Canada on Thursday night, but I'll watch it then and start a thread with pictures again. 

     

    Loss of Gronk is a real bummer.  Amazing the obstacles this team has had to overcome.  I continue, though, to say this team has the attitude of those Super Bowl winning teams.  Extraordinary resiliance and determination. 

     

    Here's the formation you're talking about from the broadcast version of the game.  Looks like Hightower, Fletcher and Collins were in on this play (the first in the game).  No Spikes. 

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah, Wozzy, I noticed that--they used two tackles instead of three with Siliga replacing Sopoaga and Vellano (Chris Jones was the other tackle).  Can't wait for the film to come out (usually it's out on Tuesday night).  I'll be in Charlotte, though, and won't be able to access it until I get back to Canada on Thursday night, but I'll watch it then and start a thread with pictures again. 

    Loss of Gronk is a real bummer.  Amazing the obstacles this team has had to overcome.  I continue, though, to say this team has the attitude of those Super Bowl winning teams.  Extraordinary resiliance and determination.  

    Here's the formation you're talking about from the broadcast version of the game.  Looks like Hightower, Fletcher and Collins were in on this play (the first in the game).  No Spikes. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Siliga was exactly what we needed, thank god Vellano is off the field.  The loss of Gronk is too big to measure, I think we'll have to become a WR heavy offense, we need Dobson back, hopefully Boyce continues to grow because he took steps today.  If the defense can grow from this, if Siliga can provide stability in the middle we might have something to work with.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_483130. Show user_483130's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    Prolate - To be hopeful, you must be seeing something I am not... they gave up 500 yds to Jason Campbell and the Browns. However, I am looking forward to your update, this is a great thread.  

    Although I am not optimistic for the remainder of 2013, I think this team will have a solid nucleaus in 2014 when everyone comes back healthy and I am interested to see how some of the new faces do [Boyce, Silga, Collins, Fletcher...] here on out.

    ODP

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah, Wozzy, I noticed that--they used two tackles instead of three with Siliga replacing Sopoaga and Vellano (Chris Jones was the other tackle).  Can't wait for the film to come out (usually it's out on Tuesday night).  I'll be in Charlotte, though, and won't be able to access it until I get back to Canada on Thursday night, but I'll watch it then and start a thread with pictures again. 

    Loss of Gronk is a real bummer.  Amazing the obstacles this team has had to overcome.  I continue, though, to say this team has the attitude of those Super Bowl winning teams.  Extraordinary resiliance and determination.  

    Here's the formation you're talking about from the broadcast version of the game.  Looks like Hightower, Fletcher and Collins were in on this play (the first in the game).  No Spikes. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Siliga was exactly what we needed, thank god Vellano is off the field.  The loss of Gronk is too big to measure, I think we'll have to become a WR heavy offense, we need Dobson back, hopefully Boyce continues to grow because he took steps today.  If the defense can grow from this, if Siliga can provide stability in the middle we might have something to work with.

    [/QUOTE]

    It will be an amazing coaching job if they can pull it out this year.  So many of our best players on both sides of the ball have been out either for the season or for large parts of it.  Has any team been quite so decimated? 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    It will be an amazing coaching job if they can pull it out this year.  So many of our best players on both sides of the ball have been out either for the season or for large parts of it.  Has any team been quite so decimated? 

    [/QUOTE]

    If the league had an All NFL injury team the Patriots would have starters at both D Tackle positions, the inside linebacker, the tight end, the right tackle, Cannon could probably beat out any other tackle prospect, TJ Moe sight unseen would get some snaps at slot receiver, Armstead would play some end, Adrian Wilson would be the starting strong safety...  this is getting ridiculous.

     
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    Re: So I watched some film . . .

    Yikes...saw the film....good analysis.

     

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