Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    I know they're young, but anyone else think Solder and Cannon had an underwhelming performance? I was planning on just enjoying the game last night, but couldn't help but notice that both players were not just 1/2 a step behind, but getting beaten on a regular basis w/o much fight.

    The secondary and OL continue to be the biggest question marks for this team.
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    Agreed. This is why how the O Line handled the Eagles pass rush was one thing I was watching. As stated on another thread; having a healthy Vollmer and Mankins and Waters' return would improve the O Line. I think only Solder and Connolly were starters last year (Koppen was injured). There really wasn't much there in the run game, but it should be better if these guys return. Another observation is that Brady gets the ball out noticably quicker than Mallet or Hoyer and has a better pocket prescence (can sense when opposing D is closing in on him).  I see Mankins and Waters as great run blockers who would improve the run game.
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

         Cannon in particular had his problems...especially with speed rushers. The Pats need a healthy Vollmer. I'll say it again...Cannon is better suited to play OG, than tackle: http://blogs.providencejournal.com/sports/patriots/2012/08/offensive-line-continues-to-be-an-issue-for-patriots.html   
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    [QUOTE]Agreed. This is why how the O Line handled the Eagles pass rush was one thing I was watching. As stated on another thread; having a healthy Vollmer and Mankins and Waters' return would improve the O Line. I think only Solder and Connolly were starters last year (Koppen was injured). There really wasn't much there in the run game, but it should be better if these guys return. Another observation is that Brady gets the ball out noticably quicker than Mallet or Hoyer and has a better pocket prescence (can sense when opposing D is closing in on him).  I see Mankins and Waters as great run blockers who would improve the run game.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz[/QUOTE]

    I was hoping for more progress with Solder and Cannon (whether it's fair or not).  Solder needs to work on footwork, and maybe gain a little bit of weight in legs to lower his gravity. He got bowled over more than a couple of times w/ bull rushes - kind of embarrassing for him.  Cannon just seemed slow, and could not handle a move to the outside
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    If the Pats had decent OL available talent, Cannon would not make the 53 player roster and Solder would be coming off the bench for another year.  The fact that we need to rely Cannon and Solder, even with Mankins back, is NOT a good sign.  Hopefully we get through this season without key OL injuries and sign some roster castoffs that can hold this line together to give Brady some time and open up holes for Ridley and Vreen.
      
    I thought we should have selected an OL with the 2nd round Wilson pick...but none of the late first round and second round OL draft picks are burning it up yet.  Koonz, Ben whatshisname from Georgia, Reiff and others are underwhelming so far and maybe BB didn't see starting talent.  Maybe next draft we focus on a couple OL picks. 
     
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    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    [QUOTE]If the Pats had decent OL available talent, Cannon would not make the 53 player roster and Solder would be coming off the bench for another year.  The fact that we need to rely Cannon and Solder, even with Mankins back, is NOT a good sign.  Hopefully we get through this season without key OL injuries and sign some roster castoffs that can hold this line together to give Brady some time and open up holes for Ridley and Vreen.    I thought we should have selected an OL with the 2nd round Wilson pick...but none of the late first round and second round OL draft picks are burning it up yet.  Koonz, Ben whatshisname from Georgia, Reiff and others are underwhelming so far and maybe BB didn't see starting talent.  Maybe next draft we focus on a couple OL picks. 
    Posted by Eldunker[/QUOTE]

    Well, BB took a chance on Solder and Cannon. It is what it is. With Light retiring last season, and guys like Neal and Koppen on the way out - I had the OL as being the 2nd or 3rd area of need (after Secondary, and DE/OLB)
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    You can add Jermaine Cunningham to the list of underperformers. I had high hopes for Cunningham but he looks like he's taken a step backwards.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    We must stop drinking kool-aid, I hate the crap anyway. We have serious issues at O line that will impact this teams ability to function on offense.

    I'm gonna keep saying it, shame on solder for not getting stronger in the off season. He is getting beat up like a red headed step child. Cannon I'm thinking needs a bit more time.

    Bringing Light back ain't a bad idea. Get Waters in here now. If he's coming back he needs to be told look we need you now.

    Vollmer needs to play before I'm convinced his back is healthy.

     
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    [QUOTE]We must stop drinking kool-aid, I hate the crap anyway. We have serious issues at O line that will impact this teams ability to function on offense. I'm gonna keep saying it, shame on solder for not getting stronger in the off season. He is getting beat up like a red headed step child. Cannon I'm thinking needs a bit more time. Bringing Light back ain't a bad idea. Get Waters in here now. If he's coming back he needs to be told look we need you now. Vollmer needs to play before I'm convinced his back is healthy.  
    Posted by NoMorePensionLooting[/QUOTE]

    let's see what the landscape looks like by the time they play the titans.
    Am optimistic of Waters, he's prolly got a pass as far as pre-season training. Solder is a project, needs footwork and gain some muscle in his legs. Maybe he should take Judo next off season.....lol.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    [QUOTE]We must stop drinking kool-aid, I hate the crap anyway. We have serious issues at O line that will impact this teams ability to function on offense. I'm gonna keep saying it, shame on solder for not getting stronger in the off season. He is getting beat up like a red headed step child. Cannon I'm thinking needs a bit more time. Bringing Light back ain't a bad idea. Get Waters in here now. If he's coming back he needs to be told look we need you now. Vollmer needs to play before I'm convinced his back is healthy.  
    Posted by NoMorePensionLooting[/QUOTE]


    agree with your comments.
    said same on thread i started about it.
    though i dont think light comes back
    if they could get him to, that would be great.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    [QUOTE]If the Pats had decent OL available talent, Cannon would not make the 53 player roster and Solder would be coming off the bench for another year.  The fact that we need to rely Cannon and Solder, even with Mankins back, is NOT a good sign.  Hopefully we get through this season without key OL injuries and sign some roster castoffs that can hold this line together to give Brady some time and open up holes for Ridley and Vreen.    I thought we should have selected an OL with the 2nd round Wilson pick...but none of the late first round and second round OL draft picks are burning it up yet.  Koonz, Ben whatshisname from Georgia, Reiff and others are underwhelming so far and maybe BB didn't see starting talent.  Maybe next draft we focus on a couple OL picks. 
    Posted by Eldunker[/QUOTE]

    i see ot need and dt need (new wilfork or wilfork lite), cb as well.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    [QUOTE]I know they're young, but anyone else think Solder and Cannon had an underwhelming performance? I was planning on just enjoying the game last night, but couldn't help but notice that both players were not just 1/2 a step behind, but getting beaten on a regular basis w/o much fight. The secondary and OL continue to be the biggest question marks for this team.
    Posted by anonymis[/QUOTE]


    aslo see thread abotu volmer replace solder at left t

    " The secondary and OL continue to be the biggest question marks for this team."
    agreed
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    [QUOTE]We must stop drinking kool-aid, I hate the crap anyway. We have serious issues at O line that will impact this teams ability to function on offense. I'm gonna keep saying it, shame on solder for not getting stronger in the off season. He is getting beat up like a red headed step child. Cannon I'm thinking needs a bit more time. Bringing Light back ain't a bad idea. Get Waters in here now. If he's coming back he needs to be told look we need you now. Vollmer needs to play before I'm convinced his back is healthy.  
    Posted by NoMorePensionLooting[/QUOTE]

    ^ THAT...

    Listen to me here please...

    I CAN-Not begin to understate just how critical regarding how well the play, and the ability to perform up the barest minimum of par, That NE's Offensive Line MUST perform to (and in particular, NE's 2 OTs), as NE hopes to go forward and afford themselves a viable shot to successful garner a Championship this season.

    ~

    And it's still tough even attempting to broach the subject of someone, or some positional grouping, on NE's Offense, playing in such an underwhelming and prone to such a high degree of underperformance that right now, is THIS easily exploitable by an opposing Defense.

    There are some on here whom STILL continue to believe that there are SO few things that you do on 1 side of the football, which actually alter the play & affect the OTHER side of the football.  THIS is as wrong as wrong can be within this team sport.

    There are some on here whom STILL forward the notions that ANY and EVERY single Fan, Layperson, NON- NFL Coach or personell member, NEVER...EVER, On any single lone instance in question, KNOW or even are capable of conjuring up ANY slightly better answer to any of even the tiniest of specific problems at hand and issues that arise.  Listen please:  The mindset that those whom actually have the job title set hard in their executive office door, DO NOT Always, And On EVERY SINGLE OCCASSION, Unconditionally offer up THE single greatest solution to each and every single problem or issue which arises.  The mindset that every single answer to every single one of the million issues which they come across and need to deal with on day-day basis, IS Not in each and every single circumstance, ALWAYS the singularly VERY best solution and to the very BEST degree each & every time, hands-down and bar-none, due to the fact that they have Under their name is a very important sounding job title.  Right? 
    This belief:  That Every answer...every draft pick...every move or non-move...every solution forwarded- EACH time=BEST 1 there is...BEST degree there is...No faltering or failing, Every trillion of specifics centered within every one of the millions of specific problems and issues which need to be adressed or those that just get addressed=Can never be bettered even in the slightest from any single one of us lil' peon no-nothings...right?  <  This...?  Is F##k!NG MADNESS. 

    ~

    NE's OT play which is THIS poor, CAN and WILL, affect the following in a devasting way:


    This EXCEPTIONALLY high degree of underperforming, will singlehandedly result in Belichick and McDaniels abandoning this amazingly diverse concept that they've come up and by every fact imaginable, That they hope to enact and deploy as NE's Main Offensive Focus going forward...  This concept (5 OL, 1 TE, 1 #2TE/FB, 2 Possession-type WRs, 1 QB and 1 RB) of the multi-diverse schematic of personell groupings affording the greatest degree of the Bigger heavier unit concept and groupings beneficial to a very successful running game threat, WITH the greatest degree of the very same spread out passing attack weapons look at once, and in the same conceptual design.

    TERRIBLE OT play on each ends (and it was bad...go back and watch, every one of those guys are either starters or the very 1st guy off the bench in his positional OL spot, whether Waters, mankins or Vollmer was there or not, It should NOT be THAT bad), -This continued level of such awful OL play, WILL result in BB and JMcD and TB being frustrated enough (and pretty justifiably so), To abandon this newer and far more multi-diverse ball-control and total gameplay control concept, IN favor of headin' back to the very tempting high-scoring shotgun gunslinger game w/ zero attempt to establish a viable running game threat, and/or within this scheme which lacks on it's behalf regardless (The result will be too great of a temptation to fall back on the Feast or famine reactive spread passing game offering ZERO situational help beneficial to both the O & D, based and heaped onto the full weight of the shoulders of your HOF QB)...

    Over and over and over and over again, this results in A game design which NEVER wears out the opposing Defense (you're OL is RE-active in pass-protection, and even successful game drives driving the entire length of the football field, range oin total TOP time in the neighborhoods of anywhere from just 2-barely over 4 minutes taken off the clock).  Your D is back on the field in HALF the time comparatively to forwarding the fully diverse Run + Passing Game multi-dimensional steadiness on O, and the opposing D is NEVER tired in the 2nd half. 
         You are attempting to gain a higher point total output (for further info:  see the extreme ends of Capitalism and "net profit" ahead of any and every ideal, moral, or anything else on planet earth)- WHILE at once, taking away the threat and recognizable diversity of 1/2 of your total O Gameplay's ability to diversify (Run Vs Pass), You have NOTHING in terms of anything you've bothered to develop to fall back IF and when it ever fails you, You NEVER enact enough force or will to actually wear down the will of your opponent during the final end stages of the game, and you KILL the greatest number of situational help and ability to perform at the very best level THEY can in this team game, on the Defensive side of this total team sport (esp. as it relates to gameplay as it starts to develop further into the developing span of the game itself, 2nd, 3rd, 4th Q).

    It results in a successful Regular Season, as you pile on the points against lesser tiered opponents, this alone (O pt. total) being enough to usually frsutarte a final "W" over them as the final whistle sounds...  But come playoffs, and against far more complete teams on both sides of the ball, far more diverse teams in their diversified play threats on either side of the ball, against The best league defenses, and/or against Teams that play and tailor their gameplay which better situationally benefits BOTH sides of their team (O & D), IT FAILS...  REGULARLY.

    ~~~

    Here (I never try to leave you without the specific details to hope to help the last of the heel-draggers, better understand...Although not sure that matters, because the benefits of actually offering up actual case-in-point detailed evidence has recently been called in to question):

    RE-Watch NE's O play in this Preseason Game #2, and key in on just 2 things:

    1- The total time NE's QB has to drop back, and set himself in the pocket to comfortably look down the field in order to attempt a shot at a successful completion (yea...ALL of the starters OR not, It's about 1 ("Ahh") second...OR less.  The end result will be MORE SHOTGUN, More propensity to pass, and WAY less of any diversity to offer a fuller run game, MORE of a run game, More of any worthy to be recognized, Run threat in an exceedingly less and less and ever less diverse Total O design and play.

    2- just HOW much and HOW often (an absolutely UN-believable number of times), that NE's RBs (on running plays in preseason game #2) were already attempting to avoid contact, and/or getting hit with defenders making successful contact on them, BEHIND the LOS.  It was UN-real...I watched through 3 quarters thus far on my DVR of the game, and I don't think I counted ONE TIME, when NE's RBs weren't either hit (oncce, twice, 3x) and/or adjusting their run IMMEDIATELY upon a defender breaking through and into the backfield (once, twice, 3x- these: PER RUN) to cause NE's RBs to HAVE to alter their immediate running angle.  How NE's RBs even garned 1 positive yard ALL day on every single run play combined and in total, is beyond me.  

    ~~~

    Finally, this here:

    http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=320820017&period=1


    ^  I am offering you up the direct link to NE's Boxscore of yesterday's Eagles/NE Game, On The PLAY-BY-PLAY accounting of each drives by NE & Philly By 1st-4th Quarter.

    Please...please, just f##k!ng TRY to get a clue on these things (or even just TRY to click on the link, o'kay?).

    ~~~

    Note these extremely Football day 1 for Beginners, things of note:

    < />
    How NE's Defense started in their play.
    ~~Just HOW well and just HOW regularly they held Philadelphia to barely over a Minute or so, 3-6 play, UTTERLY Un-successful drives (esp. early in play).
    Take particular regard to this 1 fact when NE fields a full Team on D-  Sterling Moore will NOT be tasked with defending the opposing teams A#1 pass-catching option & threat.  <2-3 BIG pass plays given up, 40 yarder, critical 3rd down, and a blown coverage to his unnmaned guy on another, + 1 Penalty giving Philly either a 3rd and long (or 4th-i.e. punt...I forget?), TO: A fresh set of downs once more (1st and 10...wherein NE subsequently immediately stopped them on D, after THIS new set of downs).  Sterling Moore is a Pro Team #1 shutdown CB, the way and to the degree that Ellis Hobbs was NE's #1 shutdown 1st CB 1 season (A kid w/ decent skills & one who might be a nasty nickel CB, or a solid #2 CB sometime in the future...But NOT a guy who you'd wish to task at this present point in time, with shutting down any and every opposing team's #1 pass catching option).

    < />
    FIELD POSITION:  Despite what some have led you to believe, Your defense is NOT failing you, when they hold the opposing team to a 3 and out, and after your KR fumbles the ball (twice, 3x...WhoTH knows, not even sure we DIDN'T fumble a Punt or a kickoff in the total span of this preseason game), and/or your QB gets strip sacked/INT'ed (called back once I believe, but I still thought there was 1 other not reversed in NE's favor, which did result in a TO), and/or there is a TO by your O DEEP in the DEEPEST part of the opposing team's side of the field, giving them the ball back within 20-25 (and under) yards of their endzone. 
    ~~Your D held them to a Punt, and either A> Ya took the field for 1-2 plays and turned over the ball directly within p#ss!ng distance of their scoring spot, Or B> Ya never even afforded your Defenders even THIS, w/ fumbles on the actual PR itself...doing the exact same.
        
    ^ This is NOT a failure by your Defense, after they had held them THAT solid, forced a punt, and then got burnt by either leaving the field for 1/2 a second and/or not leaving the field AT ALL, while being further asked to hold the O once more, upon being suddenly tasked w/ stopping them w/in 25 yards or under from the opposing side's endzone.

    < />
    Next- (and I beg some of you to even 1 time just try to attempt to look at these things with open eyes)- 
    ~~SEE If and How, NE's Offensive looks and O play design looks (i.e. number of shotgun plays and/or greater number of pass plays), were IN-creased (ya can base it on 1 simple look-over...trust me), Upon NE (and as it relates directly here, upon NE's OTs playing SO bad w/ the QB under center- not affording him enough time to drop back and pass, while not even being capable of blocking good for the benefit of the run game- RESULT:  More pass plays en masse, and more hikes while in the shotgun, in particular);
    ~~NOW, SEE whether This Did or whether this Did Not, affect NE's time length of their drive times in total, as the events of this past gameplay carried on into the further 2nd-4th Q's of this game;  Succesful Drives OR NOT...Did this greater emphasis on the shotgun passing game, Result in a Greater OR Lesser Amount of Total TOP every time NE's Offense took the field for a series as the game continued to unfold by Quarter?
    ~~LAST, SEE Whether or NOT, NE's Defense would be MORE likely to hold the other team ("hold them" on series NOT when NE's D forced a TO on downs, only to have a fumbled punt/1 play strip sack, resulted in them heading back <or not even leaving the field> in order to stop the opposing team within 20 yards of their endzone), OR NOT hold the opposing team to Very quick and Very solid, stops w/ such little gain in such little time, AT and During Instances based upon HOW long (or if at all, after an Offensive turnover, beit O itself immediately, and/or in the return game)- That NE's Offensive took the field, in the O's TOP, play number count and play drive total time, distance, and overall success (or not) by NE's Offensive side of the football.

    ^ Lemme tell'ya...It is disturbingly plain-as-day, In-Your-Face, Easy as EASY gets, to see the direct correlation to how 1 side of your team's D and/or O design AND how 1 side of your D and O's game success OR not by the series that they take the field of play with-IN that design they have deployed and attempted to execute successfully on any individual Offensive and/or Defensive series wherein they take the field of play (either successfully or unsuccessfully), has direct correlations that affect the other side... 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    ^ Laz, and the other guy....

    Would you agree that the O-line has been one of the strongest units on our team for a long, long time? I would reference coach Scars longevity as the O-line coach under multiple coaches but I think we all realize this. Now this doesn't mean anything we do is correct(as some here would use as their argument) but in this particular instance I would say that Solder and Cannon have all of the necessary tools to be very good tackles in this league. I don't buy the hype.

    Perhaps I am wrong and if I am I would assume BB would be scrambling to fix this very serious issue in the next few days. Hold me to it, but other then Volmer and perhaps a few back ups, I don't think we will be running to get a starting tackle. I think we knew what we had, and are not going to give up on them because of a pre season game.

    Cannon would have been a 1st or 2nd rd tackle if not for his disease. Solder would have been a 1st rd or 2nd  rd tackle if we hadn't of taken him at 17. These guys are talented, they're are just very inexperienced. If you remember Solder played RT last year, Cannon didn't play at all till week 10 and then sparingly.

    Everythings gonna be alright mon!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    TrueChamp~

    In terms of whether or not I'm in agreement with this:

    "Would you agree that the O-line has been one of the strongest units on our team for a long, long time? I would reference coach Scars longevity as the O-line coach under multiple coaches but I think we all realize this. Now this doesn't mean anything we do is correct(as some here would use as their argument) but in this particular instance I would say that Solder and Cannon have all of the necessary tools to be very good tackles in this league. I don't buy the hype."

    ...^ I believe that you could give Scar a 65 year old midget housewife from Mongolia, and Dante could at least, turn her in to a solid 2nd string 1st 1 off the bench, back-up starting Right or Left Guard.

    My take is FULLY centered within just HOW critical, and just HOW much more beneficial it will be in terms of Lombardi-hoisting postseason success, IF NE's Coaches and Players forward enough of a composed steadfastness and stick-to-it mindset (w/ this new scheme), verses dropping back on the much easier ('cause were pretty darn good at it) and the MUCH more enticing <think: "insidious"- "inevitably harmful BUT overwhelmingly enticing" /> BY abandoning this too quickly early on, in favor of a shotgun based, pass 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, spread type Offense.

    My sentiment is based on my belief that IF ALL of these guys have enough patience in order to hold true to this newer and far more diverse in it's multi-dimensional threats, '12 O Scheme...that it WILL and in my estimation DOES warrant A greater probability of NE Pats standing on the podium come February.

    It's a worry based on just how patient our guys can be and WILL be, in order to fully iron out the kinks and nuances of the curently lesser performing parcels in this altered Offensive design scheme. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    The Super Bowl is 23 weeks from Sunday. I'll worry about it then.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    [QUOTE]TrueChamp ~ In terms of whether or not I'm in agreement with this: " Would you agree that the O-line has been one of the strongest units on our team for a long, long time? I would reference coach Scars longevity as the O-line coach under multiple coaches but I think we all realize this. Now this doesn't mean anything we do is correct(as some here would use as their argument) but in this particular instance I would say that Solder and Cannon have all of the necessary tools to be very good tackles in this league. I don't buy the hype ." ...^ I believe that you could give Scar a 65 year old midget housewife from Mongolia, and Dante could at least , turn her in to a solid 2nd string 1st 1 off the bench, back-up starting Right or Left Guard. My take is FULLY centered within just HOW critical, and just HOW much more beneficial it will be in terms of Lombardi-hoisting postseason success, IF NE's Coaches and Players forward enough of a composed steadfastness and stick-to-it mindset (w/ this new scheme), verses dropping back on the much easier ('cause were pretty darn good at it) and the MUCH more enticing <think: "insidious"- "inevitably harmful BUT overwhelmingly enticing" /> BY abandoning this too quickly early on, in favor of a shotgun based, pass 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, spread type Offense. My sentiment is based on my belief that IF ALL of these guys have enough patience in order to hold true to this newer and far more diverse in it's multi-dimensional threats, '12 O Scheme...that it WILL and in my estimation DOES warrant A greater probability of NE Pats standing on the podium come February. It's a worry based on just how patient our guys can be and WILL be, in order to fully iron out the kinks and nuances of the curently lesser performing parcels in this altered Offensive design scheme. 
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]


    I have the same concerns with the RB's. If either of these guys have bad luck (Ridley fumbles twice early on, or Vareen gets injured again?) I'm worried about the recourse. It might just be too easy to fall back on what we have done for the last 5 years and start flinging the ball all over the place....but I don't think McDaniels will fall into that trap.

    Anyway, I see your point.....we aren't gonna find too many midgets. Not from Mongolia anyways....and even if we did Scar doesn't speak Mongol Khel...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming.... : I have the same concerns with the RB's. If either of these guys have bad luck (Ridley fumbles twice early on, or Vareen gets injured again?) I'm worried about the recourse. It might just be too easy to fall back on what we have done for the last 5 years and start flinging the ball all over the place....but I don't think McDaniels will fall into that trap. Anyway, I see your point.....we aren't gonna find too many midgets. Not from Mongolia anyways....and even if we did Scar doesn't speak Mongol Khel ...
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    I'm thinking the Pats should give the youngins as much play time pre-season as possible - and during early regular season games where we have a signficant lead. Hopefully, this would translate to a better prepared team by playoff time.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    [QUOTE]^ Laz, and the other guy.... Would you agree that the O-line has been one of the strongest units on our team for a long, long time? I would reference coach Scars longevity as the O-line coach under multiple coaches but I think we all realize this. Now this doesn't mean anything we do is correct(as some here would use as their argument) but in this particular instance I would say that Solder and Cannon have all of the necessary tools to be very good tackles in this league. I don't buy the hype. Perhaps I am wrong and if I am I would assume BB would be scrambling to fix this very serious issue in the next few days. Hold me to it, but other then Volmer and perhaps a few back ups, I don't think we will be running to get a starting tackle. I think we knew what we had, and are not going to give up on them because of a pre season game. Cannon would have been a 1st or 2nd rd tackle if not for his disease. Solder would have been a 1st rd or 2nd  rd tackle if we hadn't of taken him at 17. These guys are talented, they're are just very inexperienced. If you remember Solder played RT last year, Cannon didn't play at all till week 10 and then sparingly. Everythings gonna be alright mon!
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    Not trying to be a wise azz here. Larry Bird ain’t walking through that door folks. What our Offensive Line did in the past is the same as me staring in the mirror trying to remember what I looked like when I had hair.

     

    Don’t live in the past, it never serves the future. Players get old, Light and Koppen were the rock of that line and only now do we realize just how much they meant to that line.

     

    Back to my hair, it’s gone, Light and Koppen the same.

     

    Please be honest with yourself. The dam starting leaking during the 2008 Super Bowl and in spite of best efforts the leak is still there. Not the Pats fault that Vollmer and Kazur blew their backs out. They needed to realize Koppen had started losing his hair a few seasons ago. Solder was and is a project. Some say you never roll the dice on a project in the first round. The football gods sent us Waters last season.

     

    At this time we do not have a “stud” or a leader on the Offensive Line.

     

    This game is won and lost on the D and O lines, always has been, always will be.

     

    Learn from the past, don’t yearn for it. I eat, sleep and drink football. I am simply grading the Pats performance on their management of the O line as I would grade the performance of my sales staff on a yearly basis.

     

    No competent sales staff, my company flounders. Poor O line, the Pats Offensive simply can’t work and will harm this season. The warts starting showing in February of 2008.

     

    I sincerely hope they can get it straightened out in time.  

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    Philadelphia's defensive line is ridiculously good, says profootballfocus.com.

    That said, Solder is a near-rookie (lockout last preseason) and he will probably straighten his technique out.  Cannon is both a near-rookie (chemotherapy last preseason, worse than the lockout for arresting development) and underwhelming at tackle. 

    BB needs near-rookie Cannon to back up Vollmer.  Who else does he have as a tackle?  So, Cannon gets the reps.

    Does Cannon have some injury, hopefully a small one, that cuts his effectiveness temporarily?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming.... : Not trying to be a wise azz here. Larry Bird ain’t walking through that door folks. What our Offensive Line did in the past is the same as me staring in the mirror trying to remember what I looked like when I had hair.   Don’t live in the past, it never serves the future. Players get old, Light and Koppen were the rock of that line and only now do we realize just how much they meant to that line.   Back to my hair, it’s gone, Light and Koppen the same.   Please be honest with yourself. The dam starting leaking during the 2008 Super Bowl and in spite of best efforts the leak is still there. Not the Pats fault that Vollmer and Kazur blew their backs out. They needed to realize Koppen had started losing his hair a few seasons ago. Solder was and is a project. Some say you never roll the dice on a project in the first round. The football gods sent us Waters last season.   At this time we do not have a “stud” or a leader on the Offensive Line.   This game is won and lost on the D and O lines, always has been, always will be.   Learn from the past, don’t yearn for it. I eat, sleep and drink football. I am simply grading the Pats performance on their management of the O line as I would grade the performance of my sales staff on a yearly basis.

    Well, it must be tough working for you. The Pats O-line is ranked #2 going into the year. It was ranked #2 in 2011 and #6 in 2010. Granted O-line rankings are difficult and up to interpretation but a lot of people share the opinion that the O-line has been one of the best in the league for a long long time.
    http://football.about.com/od/fantasyfootball/a/Offensive_Line.htm

    http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/7/17/3160866/packers-patriots-nfl-offensive-line-rankings

    http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/40484/179/2012-offensive-line-rankings

    2. New England Patriots

    EAST RUTHERFORD, NJ - SEPTEMBER 20:  Logan Mankins #70 of the New England Patriots against the New York Jets at Giants Stadium on September 20, 2009 in East Rutherford, New Jersey.  (Photo by Nick Laham/Getty Images)
    Nick Laham/Getty Images

    Starters- LT Matt Light, LG Logan Mankins, C Dan Koeppen, RG Dan Connolly, RT Sebastian Vollmer

    2010 Offensive Rankings- 9th Rushing (123.1 YPG), 11th Passing (240 YPG), 4th Sacks Allowed (25)

    New England Patriots QB Tom Brady wouldn't be where he is today without the fabulous offensive line group he has in New England.

    This group does everything really well. They are in the top of the league in every offensive category, including top-five in sacks allowed on the aforementioned Brady.

    Logan Mankins and Matt Light are some of the toughest lineman in the game and Sebastian Vollmer and Dan Koeppen are getting closer and closer to the same elite status.

    Their protection is the foundation of the Patriots' explosive offense, creating an impenetrable wall for all NFL defenses.



       No competent sales staff, my company flounders. Poor O line, the Pats Offensive simply can’t work and will harm this season.

    Well sure but that has never happened in the BB,Tom Brady era. So what are you basing this worry on?
    "The pats offensive simply can't work"???? You think this from A pre season game?

     The warts starting showing in February of 2008.   I sincerely hope they can get it straightened out in time.  
    Posted by NoMorePensionLooting[/QUOTE]

    You say the warts started showing in Feb 2008 but then we went on to have one of the top ranked O-lines for the next 5 years so.....
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

         The good news is that Sebastien Vollmer has begun practicing. He replaced the beleaguered Marcus Cannon at RT. Also returning to practice were TE David Fells, CB Alfonzo Denard, and safety Tavon Wilson. Patrick Chung were among those absent: http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4727679/vollmer-larsen-dennard-back-at-practice
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    I don't expect to see too much time if any for Vollmer or Mankins tonight. I said in other post earlier Mondays game game was all about evaluating players abilities to fit into game plans and situations. Replacing Matt Light is not going to happen overnight,Light was a HOF LT in my opinion, Dante Scarnechia will have his hands full filling the hole that Light left behind,but I think he will be up to the task. Who knows maybe Matt himself will miss the game and leave the evil Empire and rejoin the Pats, who knows? Dante is one of, if not THE best OL coach in football so I am confident he will have the line humming on all 5,7 or 8 cylinders depending on the formation by opening game kick off.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    I think Cannon would be better at RG. The Pats need to get healthy Vollmer back and Waters has to return. The Pats faced a great defensive line, they had there ups and downs. Thing is, with the O Line, you are always two or three injuries away from being porous.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....

    In Response to Re: Solder and Cannon Underwhelming....:
    [QUOTE]I think Cannon would be better at RG. The Pats need to get healthy Vollmer back and Waters has to return. The Pats faced a great defensive line, they had there ups and downs. Thing is, with the O Line, you are always two or three injuries away from being porous.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz[/QUOTE]

    At this juncture, it doesn't look like Solder is ready to start at left tackle. He's lacking in balance and foot work. ThatI can come only w/ more practice and game experience.  If Vollmer is ready to come back, I think he'd play better at LT vs. Solder. If he's not healthy, then let's take our chances with Solder and let him learn on the fly (and hopefully, he would be fine by mid-season).

    I'm assuming contracturally, Waters is being allowed to not participate in pre season stuff. In case he does not come back, what are they going to do at RT?
     

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