Terrible Pat’s drafting record

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hoier. Show Hoier's posts

    Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1244572&format=comments#CommentsArea

    Dumb (p)luck?


    When looking at the constitution of the Patriots [team stats] roster, the importance of the NFL draft in team building certainly appears debatable. As of Friday, the Patriots had 64 players on their roster, and more than one-third (22) entered the league as undrafted free agents. And, though they had 10 players who were first-round picks, four of those were drafted by another franchise.

    If you add the other six players who were originally drafted by other teams, it means that exactly half of the Patriots players did not come to the team via the draf


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    You don't want to say pats are poor drafters on here. And you definetley don't want to take any shots at Pioli's last 4 drafts either. I did that and spent half the weekend arguing with some guy who thought Pioli invented football and the draft. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    In Response to Terrible Pat’s drafting record:
    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1244572&format=comments#CommentsArea Dumb (p)luck? W hen looking at the constitution of the Patriots [ team stats ] roster, the importance of the NFL draft in team building certainly appears debatable. As of Friday, the Patriots had 64 players on their roster, and more than one-third (22) entered the league as undrafted free agents. And, though they had 10 players who were first-round picks, four of those were drafted by another franchise. If you add the other six players who were originally drafted by other teams, it means that exactly half of the Patriots players did not come to the team via the draf
    Posted by Hoier
    First of all read the entire story! The Patriots have 10 first round picks on this team 4 of which came from other teams not 6! Also of the 22 undrafted FA's on this team how many of those guys came from other teams? 12..I didn't want you too have to read the roster.so just doing basic math that means the Patriots have brought in 10 UDFA's of their own! Also most of the UDFA's who came from other teams spent a while on the Practice Squad before ever seeing time on the Patriot roster. Also only one or two of the UDFA's who BB brought in made the Squad from Jump street! Of the guys who were on other teams first Arrington,McGowan,Levoir,Ninkovich,Patten,Murrell,Lockett and Welker had seen significant playing time before winding up in New England,so for the mathematically challanged that would mean that 8 out of the 12 guys you are so concerned with were productive members of other teams before signing with the Patriots! So save the criticism for another anti BB post.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    2006-2008 pretty much stunk it up.  2009 looks promising.  Lets hope the next 2 are even better.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    I'm with Mordecai on this. Up till 06 we had good to great drafts with 05 being one of the best then for some reason 06 stunk and so did 08, 07 I don't count as far as picks go since we really only had 1 pick on day 1 and the 2 trades for Moss and Welker were great but wiped out most of the rest of the draft for that year. 09 seems like it's going to be an extremely strong draft class like 05 but we'll find out in the next couple years.

    btw considering the amount of depth we had for a long time (till they left for FA or retired) and the lack of incoming talent from 06-08 is it any wonder that the team is full of players that weren't drafted by us? I'd also argue tha half the team being draft picks is amazing since most teams can't hit on 50% of the players they draft making the team for any length of time.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    Until you can compare it to other teams this is a general type of a statement.  It means nothing.  Then when you compare with other teams and what makes one draft better than another?  Oakland has a bunch of their own picks on their roster but are out of contention every year. 

    I've been posting here for quite a while and and don't find too many people who disagree on how the Pats have done after a draft.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    yeah well pioli's last few drafts here were awful. yes they hit on the first round picks, but that should go without saying. the great drafters are the ones who find the quality players in the middle rounds and the hidden gems in the late rounds. that didnt happen the last few years and thats why the pats are in the predicament they are in now with multiple holes. however last year's draft class looks like it has a chance to be one of the best in a long time (despite the lack of #1 pick). meanwhile, the chiefs draft (and trades) looked pretty poor to me. 

    In Response to Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record:
    You don't want to say pats are poor drafters on here. And you definetley don't want to take any shots at Pioli's last 4 drafts either. I did that and spent half the weekend arguing with some guy who thought Pioli invented football and the draft. 
    Posted by mthurl

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    This topic has come up a number of times here.  I think the majority of the board agrees that:

    1. We had a string of bad drafts recently.  Namely 2006-2008.  The 2007 draft gets debated more because of the whole Moss Welker deal.  Personally, I make a distinction between good trading/dealing and good drafting.  Of course, we've also had a lot of recent misses in veterans.

    2. 2009 was a good draft.  Heck, Vollmer alone would have been a high first round draft pick in hindsight.  I hope 2009 gets repeated in 2010 and 2011.

    No matter how you judge a draft, there is one truth that is kind of the bottom line; how many of the team's players were not drafted by us.  This is especially true with regard to the starters.  There is no denying that the number of Patriots drafted elsewhere has steadily increased of late.  4 or 5 years ago we only had a few.  That to me, is the bottom line and most accurate assessment of our drafts.  When the number of players not drafted by us starts to decline, I'll know our drafts have gotten better.


     
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    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    In Response to Terrible Pat’s drafting record:
    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1244572&format=comments#CommentsArea Dumb (p)luck? W hen looking at the constitution of the Patriots [ team stats ] roster, the importance of the NFL draft in team building certainly appears debatable. As of Friday, the Patriots had 64 players on their roster, and more than one-third (22) entered the league as undrafted free agents. And, though they had 10 players who were first-round picks, four of those were drafted by another franchise. If you add the other six players who were originally drafted by other teams, it means that exactly half of the Patriots players did not come to the team via the draf
    Posted by Hoier


    These numbers don't mean much without similar statistics from other teams for comparison. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsGhost. Show RedsGhost's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    Too many variables to determine drafting grades. Some folks are saying 2006-2008 were bad years. But, throw in Moss and Welker and was it really a bad year? Which years were weak /thin drafts vs strong/depth drafts? During those weak/thin years, how did the other 31 teams do? Was there any talent beyond #10? If not, how could you possibly draft well? Which year's had picks of a 1,2,3,5,6,6,7 (examples) vs the years you have a 1, 2,2,2,,4 etc? Naturally the second set of picks should grade out higher. Just too many variables to determine drafting grades without going into a 320pg book looking at all the teams drafts, draft strength etc.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    yes the '07 draft trades were legendary, no question about that. what people refer to in the '07 draft are the actual players taken, because despite the trade there were several. like him or hate him, meriweather has good talent and was a good value at the bottom of the first round. but the problem is that the pioli/BB team didnt find a single other player to contribute. not even a special teams guy. '08 looks like its turning into a disaster, its amazing that an undrafted free agent has turned out to be the second best player from that class. crable has been one of the worst picks ever under BB.
    anyway my point is that last year's draft was a huge improvement over the previous few years, and that the chief's draft last year looked pretty suspect to me.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from cwiegmann24. Show cwiegmann24's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    Going into the '07 season, everyone knew that the Patriots were stacked. We had far too many draft choices, and nowhere on the roster to put them. It wasn't like BB made bad decisions on who he kept and who he let go; the team won 18 games. I think the '07 draft was just a perfect storm of a weak draft class and a stacked roster. It was only after the majority of veterans retired, were released, or signed elsewhere that we saw a large number of draftees sticking with the pats.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    In Response to Terrible Pat’s drafting record:
    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1244572&format=comments#CommentsArea Dumb (p)luck? W hen looking at the constitution of the Patriots [ team stats ] roster, the importance of the NFL draft in team building certainly appears debatable. As of Friday, the Patriots had 64 players on their roster, and more than one-third (22) entered the league as undrafted free agents. And, though they had 10 players who were first-round picks, four of those were drafted by another franchise. If you add the other six players who were originally drafted by other teams, it means that exactly half of the Patriots players did not come to the team via the draf
    Posted by Hoier


    OK, I'll bite:

    OK, Mr Rocket Scientist. Tell us all within the coming hiur, if you can, exactly what teamhas brilliantly drafted over thelast 4 drafts, and how has it translated into SB championships. Then, tell us all what teams have drafted brilliantly and how that translates into wins/losses, division titles, and playoff appearences.

    So, put down the milk and cookies; You've got a homework assignment.

    See what happens when you don't win a SB in 5 years?  They start crawling out of the wood work!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from STP43FAN. Show STP43FAN's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    2006 was not a crappy team - 2005 was.  Belichick improved the team after 2005.  2008 also could never live up to what happened in 2007 - no team could ever do that. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from STP43FAN. Show STP43FAN's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    Point is this - the Patriots do not rely solely on the draft to build winning squads.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    In Response to Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record:
    [QUOTE]Point is this - the Patriots do not rely solely on the draft to build winning squads.
    Posted by STP43FAN[/QUOTE]

    While nobody can argue that, it can also not be argued that the Pats have had to rely more and more on sources other than the draft lately.  We've always brought in vets, but their numbers were relatively small compared to now.

    I still believe the bottom line when judging a draft is counting how many players on the team were drafted elsewhere.  The numbers have been going up lately.  If we can repeat our 2009 draft for the next two years you will see that trend reverse.  If we could get into BB's mind, I don't think we would learn he wanted to have so many players from other teams on the squad now.  
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    In Response to Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record:
    [QUOTE]Point is this - the Patriots do not rely solely on the draft to build winning squads.
    Posted by STP43FAN[/QUOTE]

    The Colts is the only team I can think of that does rely solely on the draft.  I can't think of another winner out there who does this.  Where I think this is damaging to the Colts is that for a number of years now they have been at the end of the draft which means the quality of player they select isn't as good as it was in their past. 

    The Pats do bring in vets for competition and not necessarily on need alone.  You've gotta be careful on this because ideally you want folks knowing there's someone looking to take their spot.  This cannot be done by the draft alone especially picking at the end of the draft year in and year out.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    In Response to Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record:
    In Response to Terrible Pat’s drafting record : These numbers don't mean much without similar statistics from other teams for comparison. 
    Posted by unclealfie


    good point about the need to apples to apples comparison. that said, i do think there is a disconnect between the number of players they picked and how many of their own picks are in the team. every year they tend to be on the high side of number of players they pick (except when they trade for vets).  if they are indeed on the low side on own icks still in the team then there is still something wrong.

    however, there are two explanation other than bad picks (recent picks have been bad. other than vollmer i am not yet convinced that they did that well in 2009).

    1) they may not have done a good job of developing their picks and they ended up cutting them (it would be interesting to see how many of their picks whom they cut but are now succeeding in other teams).

    2) they just seldom extend their picks to longer term contacts when their first contracts expire.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record

    In Response to Re: Terrible Pat’s drafting record:
    Wrong.  Also, who is Pat and where is his drafting record?
    Posted by russgriswold


    right over his head.
     

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