The Greatest Ever?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: The Greatest Ever?

    In response to PhatVirgin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    http://www.patsfans.com/blogs/vampatella/2014/02/04/tom-brady-the-greatest-playoff-winning-qb-ever/?preview=true#.UvD6TfldWjM

    Tom Brady did not win the Super Bowl following the 2013 season. Nor did he win it following the 2012 season. Or the 2011 season. Or in any of the last 9 seasons. This Super Bowl-winning drought has led some to criticize Brady for not being a great playoff performer or winner. Mike Francesca of WFAN gleefully pointed out recently that Brady has barely been a .500 QB since their last Super Bowl title.

    Francesca’s point, such as it is, exists because Brady’s three Super Bowl championships were won during his first three trips to the playoffs, and the Patriots went 9-0 during that time. And it is true that since then, Brady is just 9-8 in the playoffs. So are the critics right? Is Brady mediocre in terms of winning playoff games?

    Well, first off, it is disingenuous to discount all the winning Brady did early in his career. After all, he actually did go 9-0 in the playoffs to start his career, and he actually did win three Super Bowls. Those things count on his resume. They shouldn’t be tossed aside as if they never happened. It would be like saying that, apart from all the great playoff games Pedro Martinez pitched, he really wasn’t very good in the playoffs. The great performances do count.

    Moreover, the way Brady’s playoff success breaks down is sort of freakish in nature. Recall that he won three Super Bowls, each by three points. And he lost two Super Bowls, by three and four points, when one play in any of those games could have changed the outcome. If Carolina converts a two-point conversion and beats New England after the 2003 season, but Wes Welker comes down with a huge incompletion late in Super Bowl 46, we aren’t even having this discussion, as Brady’s Super Bowl wins thus become adequately spaced out. Winning really is that fragile in today’s NFL.

    Nevertheless, I thought it would be interesting to examine this narrative. Has Brady been just mediocre in terms of winning playoff games since his last Super Bowl title? In order to evaluate this, I compared Brady to 13 other all-time great quarterbacks: Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, John Elway, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, Roger Staubach, Brett Favre, Steve Young, and Troy Aikman. How does Brady stack up against these great players in terms of winning playoff games?

    First I looked at each of these QBs’ playoff wins and playoff winning percentage in total. As a caveat, I did not include games by these QBs when they were backups and played just a few snaps (for example, Steve Young during the Joe Montana days in San Francisco). Now, Brady has the most playoff wins of any QB in history with 18. Montana is second with 16, and Bradshaw and Elway are tied for third at 14. Here’s the complete list:

    Playoff Wins

    1. Brady – 18
    2. Montana – 16
    3. Bradshaw – 14
    4. Elway – 14
    5. Favre – 13
    6. Staubach – 12
    7. P. Manning – 11
    8. Aikman – 11
    9. Roethlisberger – 10
    10. Marino – 8
    11. E. Manning – 8
    12. Young – 8
    13. Brees – 6
    14. Rodgers – 5

    I then looked at their playoff winning percentage. Here’s how that list looks:

    1. Bradshaw – 14-5, .737
    2. E. Manning – 8-3, .727
    3. Roethlisberger – 10-4, .714
    4. Montana – 16-7, .696
    5. Brady – 18-8, .692
    6. Aikman – 11-5, .688
    7. Elway – 14-8, .636
    8. Staubach – 12-7, .632
    9. Rodgers – 5-4, .556
    10. Brees – 6-5, .545
    11. Favre – 13-11, .542
    12. Young – 8-7, .533
    13. P. Manning – 11-12, .478
    14. Marino – 8-10, .444

    Brady’s winning percentage isn’t as good as the four above him on the list, but it’s still top 5.

    So Brady is right up there among the elite in NFL history in terms of winning playoff games, and winning percentage. He has also been to the most Super Bowls in history, tied with Elway at 5. His 3 wins are tied for second place with Aikman behind Bradshaw and Montana, at 4. He has also been to more Conference Championship games than any QB in history, with 8 appearances. Peyton Manning said after this year’s AFCCG that they should name the game after Tom Brady because he’s been there so many times.

    But all this brings us to the question of whether Brady, since his last Super Bowl victory, has been simply mediocre in the playoffs. In order to truly understand this, I asked the same essential question of every single QB in this group: If you remove the years when they won the Super Bowl, what’s their playoff record? The numbers may surprise you.

    At this point, Brett Favre has the most number of playoff wins in non-Super Bowl-winning seasons, with 10. However, he has 11 losses as well, giving him a winning percentage of .476. That makes Favre the most accomplished playoff winner in non-Super Bowl-winning seasons in NFL history.

    Except for one person: Tom Brady.

    Here is the list, based on winning percentage:

    1. Brady – 9-8, .529
    2. Favre – 10-11, .476
    3. Elway – 7-8, .467
    4. Staubach – 6-7, .462
    5. Marino – 8-10, .444
    6. Roethlisberger – 3-4, .429
    7. Young – 5-7, .417
    8. Brees – 3-5, .375
    9. P. Manning – 7-12, .368
    10. Montana – 4-7, .364
    11. Bradshaw – 2-5, .286
    12. Aikman – 2-5, .286
    13. Rodgers – 1-4, .200
    14. E. Manning – 0-3, .000

    In other words, if you take away their Super Bowl-winning seasons, every single one of these quarterbacks looks much, much worse. And that is a patently obvious statement, yet apparently it needs to be mentioned. Tom Brady is the only QB in NFL history that has a winning record in the playoffs in non-Super Bowl-winning seasons. That is remarkable. The average QB in this group wins 41.4% of his playoff games in non-Super Bowl-winning seasons. Brady is at 52.9%. No QB in the NFL has ever won a higher percentage of his playoff games in years where he did not win a Super Bowl. Tom Brady is not only the greatest winner in playoff history, he has taken his team deeper more often than anyone, and he’s even been the best in history when his team hasn’t won the Super Bowl. That’s remarkable.

    There is one more item to consider: How often have these quarterbacks been one-and-done? Here is the list again, this time by the number of one-and-dones:

    • 8 – P. Manning
    • 4 – Elway, Montana
    • 3 – Favre, Staubach, Marino, Bradshaw, Aikman, Rodgers
    • 2 – Roethlisberger, Young, Brees, Brady

    So for all his playoff success, rarely has Brady simply been a complete dud. If you take that number and divide it by the total number of playoff games they have played, Brady looks even more impressive.

    1. Brady – 2 out of 26, .077
    2. Favre – 3 out of 24, .125
    3. Young – 2 out of 15, .133
    4. Roethlisberger – 2 out of 14, .143
    5. Staubach – 3 out of 19, .158
    6. Bradshaw – 3 out of 19, .158
    7. Marino – 3 out of 18, .167
    8. Montana – 4 out of 23, .174
    9. Elway – 4 out of 22, .182
    10. Brees – 2 out of 11, .182
    11. Aikman – 3 out of 16, .188
    12. E. Manning – 3 out of 11, .273
    13. Rodgers – 3 out of 9, .333
    14. P. Manning – 8 out of 23, .348

    The rarity with which Brady goes one-and-done, combined with the regularity with which he goes deep into the playoffs, have combined to make him the greatest playoff-winning QB in the history of the NFL. These numbers show that the narrative that Brady is mediocre in the playoffs is false. It is true that since his last Super Bowl win he is just 9-8, but that percentage is higher than any other QB’s playoff winning percentage in non-Super Bowl-winning seasons. Brady is criticized for this simply because the three championships came early in his career, and none have come since then. That’s an unfair burden to place on any QB for comparison’s sake.

    The bottom line is this: Tom Brady is the greatest playoff-winning quarterback in NFL history. Period.

    - See more at: http://www.patsfans.com/blogs/vampatella/2014/02/04/tom-brady-the-greatest-playoff-winning-qb-ever/?preview=true#.UvD6TfldWjM

    [/QUOTE]

    All that just to try and convince yourself? Was this thought after you slept with Tom?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: The Greatest Ever?

    To me only Montana and further back staubach are the Qbs I considered GOAT

    but Brady didn't have a lot of HoF receivers, played in the cap era, and only he had the Winning drive in the 4th qtr of up the SB, , one catch from an All pro cb and an all pro recvr and there is no conversation on anything. Venetri was the differnce but made Kicks  - plays he should have, the two drops were plays that should have been made, that's why they aren't the same

    zstarr and Bradshaw were great for what they had to do, but their teams had 5-6 HoF defensive players, plus HoF o players, Otto and sammie just way far too back under totally different rules

    zfrancssa is a blowhard who beats up guests he doesnt agree with and is wrong more than anyone else in the business, he ll  gimme Steven a lol

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: The Greatest Ever?

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This isn't going to be too satisfying for y'all, especially considering it was written by a boston based site with its founder a noted pats fan:

     http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/nfls-best-playoff-quarterbacks-dvoa-and-dyar



    UD.. as I said earlier.. pick some stats and any QB can be made to look like the GoaT.

    [/QUOTE]

    Regardless of the stats anyone  submits for Manning... the GOAT can't have  more INT's than TD's and 2 pick sixes in the SB.... oh almost forgot and a losing record in the playoffs. Those are things the GOAT doesn't have on their resume.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: The Greatest Ever?

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Are you female or a male under 13?

     

     



    That's the 2nd time you asked if I was male or female and this time added under age 13. Instead of attempting an insult would you be "man enough" as they say, and irrespective of your name, I don't know what sex you are or sexual preference you prefer, to be specific regarding disagreeing with the contents of my posts.

     

    If you are so interested in who I am without objectively telling me why, read my profile and I'm proud to add to it and admit I am a former Marine Officer Vietnam Combat Veteran !!!

    [/QUOTE]


    I only asked because the only people I know that have multiple "favorite" teams are either little kids or female.

    [/QUOTE]

    I know many people not just kids and females who are fans of different teams and many are ExPats from one coast to the other. But I favor the Boston teams first and San Francisco 2nd and it was amazing that in the last 3 years the Pats and 49ers could have met in the Super Bowl but fate did not permit it.

    I have been a loyal Boston teams fan, Sox, Celtics & Pats, all my life as 1st 21 years were in Maine. But with last 45 in SF I have been a local fan too. There are some fanatical fans who believe one should only be loyal to one team or state/region’s teams all their lives. I guess had I stayed in New England all my life I would have been.  But can’t a man have more than one love ? I like the A’s too across the Bay.  I root first for the Pats but also I have a pretty good backup team to keep up my NFL hopes, the 49ers !!!  And the Celtics are my #1 basketball team so I’ll be at Warrior games to root against the Lakers, whom I hate as much as the Yankees!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Whatever blows your skirt up, I guess.

    [/QUOTE]


    You did not make one objective comment pro or con with regard to the contents of my post other than your inability to understand why a person can't be a fan of different teams. Instead of name calling which you've done, I prefer not to do it as I might have asked if you were a pedofiliac interested in knowing if one's age is under 13 so when an argument couldn't be settled intelligently in a discussion, I prefered to settle the matter by boxing !!!

    [/QUOTE]


    Don't bother with Jimmy, he was asking you if you were 13 and a girl because he wants to date someone his own age and gender!

     

    Almost forgot, Sempre Fi!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: The Greatest Ever?

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To me only Montana and further back staubach are the Qbs I considered GOAT

    but Brady didn't have a lot of HoF receivers, played in the cap era, and only he had the Winning drive in the 4th qtr of up the SB, , one catch from an All pro cb and an all pro recvr and there is no conversation on anything. Venetri was the differnce but made Kicks  - plays he should have, the two drops were plays that should have been made, that's why they aren't the same

    zstarr and Bradshaw were great for what they had to do, but their teams had 5-6 HoF defensive players, plus HoF o players, Otto and sammie just way far too back under totally different rules

    zfrancssa is a blowhard who beats up guests he doesnt agree with and is wrong more than anyone else in the business, he ll  gimme Steven a lol

    [/QUOTE]

    Incorrect.. there was Montana vs Cinn

     

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