The Pats should trade down again.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBRULES23. Show BBRULES23's posts

    The Pats should trade down again.

    With this year's crop of college talent, the best option for the Pats would be to trade down and not up.  The top prospects are not that much better than picks to be had in the 2nd rds.  The deepest position is reported at CB(a position of need).  OL is also fairly deep, along with DL.  If Brace is a bust(not saying he is yet), then the Pats could certainly pick up another quality DL in the 2nd.  Dez Bryant is the only sure fire WR to be taken in the 1st, and possiblity Golden Tate.  I would prefer the Pats trade down then risk trading up for a possible bust with a high 1st.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    i'd rather they stay where they
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    The reason you move up or down is to target particular players.  It's pointless to talk about moving up or down before the time comes because it all depends on how the previous picks unfold.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3839316. Show user_3839316's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

     NE drafts better in rounds 3-7 than round 2 ,which is considered less of a draft points value.Think about it, trading a 2 nd round for a teams 3-7
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    BBRULES and ALL:

    Here's the link when I first broached the subject of NE trading down some time back...  I go into depth, on WHY they really should in My Thread (IF link doesn't go through, my thread's on Page 10 of this board):

    http://www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3ac0d5e26f-3eee-4438-8208-afe32251cf58
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    There are three reasons to trade down, or out of 2010.

    First, some desperate general manager (who is not your direct rival of course) has to have a certain player, so you make sure you'll make a pretty big profit and then trade.

    If no one stands out, not at a particular pick, you are wise to take a fair trade just to trade down a few spots.  This serves two purposes.  First, at the spot just a few picks down, you might well run into a desperate general manager and cash in.  Second, your guy might be hanging there ripe for the picking at the new location.

    Finally, many GMs are playing a game known as "New England picks X at #22 so I'll beat them by picking that same guy at #21".  BB wants it known that he will often move around, so other teams can't play that guessing game with him.  Then teams don't go out of their ways to preemptively draft New England's guys, because the tactic doesn't work.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBRULES23. Show BBRULES23's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    In Response to Re: That Pats should trade down again.:
    BBRULES and ALL : Here's the link when I first broached the subject of NE trading down some time back...  I go into depth, on WHY they really should in My Thread (IF link doesn't go through, my thread's on Page 10 of this board): http://www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3ac0d5e26f-3eee-4438-8208-afe32251cf58
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium


    Great post Laz!  It just makes too much sense for the Pats to trade down in this year's draft.  There is a ton of talent on such and equal level, that it makes more sense to fire more bullets to try and hit and than just one.  Obviously, most will never pan out as top flight NFL talent, which is why multiple selections in the 2nd will be so valuable.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from R3S1N20. Show R3S1N20's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    if BB can make all 31 other teams think hes going to trade down then he should stay with our current selections, personally i think we should make all of our current selections were we are as we have alot of picks in the first 2 rounds and can get alot of talent for cheap money. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    It's a good point, but as Sierrafiesta posts above they go up or down depending on who's on the board.

    I wouldn't be at all suprised to see them do some of both.  Would it shock anyone if they dealt one of their 2011 1st rounders?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    In Response to Re: That Pats should trade down again.:
    It's a good point, but as Sierrafiesta posts above they go up or down depending on who's on the board. I wouldn't be at all suprised to see them do some of both.  Would it shock anyone if they dealt one of their 2011 1st rounders?
    Posted by croc
    I've been a draftnik for over 25 years,BB is the oddest duck in the pond.. Meaning you don't really know which way the pendulum is swinging he could actually show at the Draft with full intentions to use what he has available but then someone will offer him something off the charts and he'll jump one way or the other...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    In Response to Re: That Pats should trade down again.:
    Would it shock anyone if they dealt one of their 2011 1st rounders?
    Posted by croc


    Yes, I'd be shocked.

    Trading out to next year is BB's signature move.  That's because coaches are almost all desperate to win this year, not next year.  BB and the Krafts are the exact opposite of desperate.  They don't mind waiting a year at maybe 40% interest.  I've never yet seen a terrible tradeout to the next drafting season.  I realize that the 2011 draft will be far worse than the 2010 draft, but 32 war rooms already realize this too, and so I expect that all the rates will go up accordingly.

    However, trading in from next year to this year is just plain forbidden for the Pats, because just about no one else in the NFL wants to go from this year to next year, and you need a trading partner.

    Likewise, BB would never make a huge jump upwards to the top of the first round.  First round top picks are overvalued by about 31 other teams, thinks BB.  High first rounders are great public relations for coaches who desperately need to keep their jobs this year, but in the end, seven reasonable second rounders usually beats one high first rounder and six undrafted JAGs.  Possible exception:  Peyton Manning and a good Indy front office.  BB's strategy of compiling better draft picks probably accounts for one or two extra victories a season for the Patriots.  Good drafting strategy is Belichick's signature move as much as is any 3-4 scheme.

    At times, BB will jump up as many as five spots just to get ahead of a particular rival.  That's different.  A small jump upwards is not a huge financial loss, and it captures a particular specific player. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    Why does BB have to "jump up"?  They could trade for multiple picks in this years deeper draft and/or a player in a need position (such as Marshall) .  The motivation?  Same as BB's, you take a chance like they did with the SF pick.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    You dont trade down just for the sake of it. I think the PATS are in real need of another stud , if we cant get one in the first then I would trade down. And Im sorry , but all I keep hearing is how deep this draft is , I really think most of you are saying that because you heard it on TV. If you think that , fine , no problem , but please explain why you think that. I dont think its nearly as deep as most of you think. First of all BBRULES you have no idea what your talking about if you think that CB is the deepest position in this years draft , not even close. The deepest positions are OL/DL , and thats not even up for debate! I mean you got to be kidding me with that , I love Haden , but after him theres nobody worth a number one. You really think Wilson , Dowling or Warren are number ones? Almost all  of the mocks Ive seen have Wilson as the number two CB and he didnt have that great of a year , alot of the hype surronding him at this point is because of the senior bowl. Listen I think hes been a very good college player , but there are q's concerning his ability to transition to the NFL. The reason I believe this draft isnt as deep as some like to say is because I see alot of pretty good players , alot of decent players. I dont see alot very good players , alot of potentialy great players. The CB position is just like most of the others , you have one very good player and then a bunch of guys who havent seperated themselves from one another at all. Look at the projected OLB's , theres nobody that stands alone , nobody that stands apart from the next guy. One day it Hughes , then Kindle and now everyone on here is all over Graham. I like all , but would go after Hughes , I think his skills translate the best into a NFL OLB. Another reason you have to be careful especialy when it comes to projected OLBs is that its so diffucult to go  from college to pros from that position. Theres been alot of bust in the past 5-6 years , alot more duds than studs. Dont get me wrong I like alot of players in this draft , I just dont see alot of first round talent. Its not a deep draft if everyone is trying to trade out of the first , wheres the depth there. Again its not a deep draft if you have a bunch of " pretty good , pretty decent " players and thats exactly what you have in the OLB , CB , and QB(maybe the weakest Ive ever seen) class. At receiver you have Bryant and Tate who didnt have the best workout at the combine and struggled with position drills. After that its the same deal as the other position , 4-5 guys who havent done anything to seperate themselves from the next guy. And none show anything close to being a true number one wideout , at this point Id even throw Bryant in there w/ the rest in terms of being a truw number one. Hes clearly the best , but does he have Moss , Fitz , AJ , Marshall ability , IMHO Id say no way...at this point. He could absolutely delvelop into one , he has all the skills and tools to do so , but the receiver position is another one that is extremely hard to make the jump from college to pros. And even harder when you talk about being an elite rec. The RB spot is another that has big question marks IMHO , I see alot of guys that have to fit in a certain system and alot of guys who at this point are not every down backs. I think Matthews might be the best in terms of being an every down back who can do it all. He can run inside as we all know and I think hes fast enough to get the edge. Maybe not take it 50-60 for 6 , but I think he has everything you need to be a very good back in the NFL. To me Spiller is a guy who needs the right team first of all and right now hes not a 3 down back. I actually like Best more , but he has the same issues in terms of getting on a team thats the right fit for him and being an every down back. Ill stop here because I could go on/on all day , I love this chit.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBRULES23. Show BBRULES23's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    In Response to Re: That Pats should trade down again.:
    In Response to Re: That Pats should trade down again. : Yes, I'd be shocked. Trading out to next year is BB's signature move.  That's because coaches are almost all desperate to win this year, not next year.  BB and the Krafts are the exact opposite of desperate.  They don't mind waiting a year at maybe 40% interest.  I've never yet seen a terrible tradeout to the next drafting season.  I realize that the 2011 draft will be far worse than the 2010 draft, but 32 war rooms already realize this too, and so I expect that all the rates will go up accordingly. However, trading in from next year to this year is just plain forbidden for the Pats, because just about no one else in the NFL wants to go from this year to next year, and you need a trading partner. Likewise, BB would never make a huge jump upwards to the top of the first round.  First round top picks are overvalued by about 31 other teams, thinks BB.  High first rounders are great public relations for coaches who desperately need to keep their jobs this year, but in the end, seven reasonable second rounders usually beats one high first rounder and six undrafted JAGs.  Possible exception:  Peyton Manning and a good Indy front office.  BB's strategy of compiling better draft picks probably accounts for one or two extra victories a season for the Patriots.  Good drafting strategy is Belichick's signature move as much as is any 3-4 scheme. At times, BB will jump up as many as five spots just to get ahead of a particular rival.  That's different.  A small jump upwards is not a huge financial loss, and it captures a particular specific player. 
    Posted by Paul_K


    Yes, it's certainly BB style to trade down and trade for future picks.  But this year's draft just happens to be favorable to BB style of trading down for lower picks.  The draft has a ton of quality CB, but no one player that stands out far and above the others.  Dez Bryant is the top rated WR, but based on scouting reports he's just a notch above the rest.  Certainly not worth trading up for.  Their is also plenty of quality OL, another option for the Pats in the
     2nd.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    In Response to Re: That Pats should trade down again.:
    In Response to Re: That Pats should trade down again. : Yes, it's certainly BB style to trade down and trade for future picks.  But this year's draft just happens to be favorable to BB style of trading down for lower picks.  The draft has a ton of quality CB, but no one player that stands out far and above the others.  Dez Bryant is the top rated WR, but based on scouting reports he's just a notch above the rest.  Certainly not worth trading up for.  Their is also plenty of quality OL, another option for the Pats in the  2nd.
    Posted by BBRULES23
    IMO this is the deepest draft ever! Trading down is a sound move,especially if combined with trading out in a second move both with the intent to garner additional picks. With that said noone not even BB himself really knows what will happen on the 22nd of April.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from crono420. Show crono420's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    Why don't we just use the pick and get the best available player? I'm sick of the pats loading up on 2nd round talent

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from philbert. Show philbert's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    Assuming NE makes no further significant FA signing, and Thomas, Burgess and Crable are not in the picture, but Tate and McKenzie are, I think they have the following holes to fill: DE,OT,OLB(2) TE,RB.
    That means the need to make at least six picks that should be immediate or near future starters.
    Now they have the 1, three 2's and a 4th.
    So I would not mind it if they could take their 1st pick and somehow turn that into a high 2 and equally high three and thereby pick up an additonal reasonably high pick for a total of six quality picks.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from FOWLER8196. Show FOWLER8196's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    In Response to Re: That Pats should trade down again.:
    Assuming NE makes no further significant FA signing, and Thomas, Burgess and Crable are not in the picture, but Tate and McKenzie are, I think they have the following holes to fill: DE,OT,OLB(2) TE,RB. That means the need to make at least six picks that should be immediate or near future starters. Now they have the 1, three 2's and a 4th. So I would not mind it if they could take their 1st pick and somehow turn that into a high 2 and equally high three and thereby pick up an additonal reasonably high pick for a total of six quality picks.
    Posted by philbert

    boom. i agree, unless there is an absolute stud at 22 then i think this is how it should go down.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    In Response to Re: That Pats should trade down again.:
    Assuming NE makes no further significant FA signing, and Thomas, Burgess and Crable are not in the picture, but Tate and McKenzie are, I think they have the following holes to fill: DE,OT,OLB(2) TE,RB. That means the need to make at least six picks that should be immediate or near future starters. Now they have the 1, three 2's and a 4th. So I would not mind it if they could take their 1st pick and somehow turn that into a high 2 and equally high three and thereby pick up an additonal reasonably high pick for a total of six quality picks.
    Posted by philbert
    You forgot WR! They need to make 7 quality picks or sign/trade for another player of quality. I'm not sure that they will take a DE with an early pick and if they do, that'll mean he's a Hybrid DE/OLB. Their DL is loaded with young guys. Pryor,Richards,Brace and even Grady but most of them are interior linemen types of the four players mentioned only Daryl Richards has the size to flip out to the DE position. Don't be surprised if the Patriots take a flier on Jason Taylor or some other Vet who qualifies as a DE/OLB.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    I hope the Pats stay put on their picks. They have 4 picks in the first two rounds. How is that not enough for

    DE,OLB,WR,RB?

    The Pats can find RB talent later in the draft, 2 OLBs? Lol yeah in your dreams the Pats have Crable, TBC, and Adalius on the roster.

    WR is a need

    DE is a need
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from philbert. Show philbert's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

    TBC is one we can pencil in, but who else at this point. My assumption was that neither Crable or Thomas were factors to be depended on. Crable has not shown he can stay healthy. So I am pessimistic about Crable ever being a factor.  And Thomas is no guarentee to make the squad with his salary. I would like to be wrong on both counts.
    Surely it makes sense to at least try for one OLB even if both Thomas and Crable are there.
    After the 4th round,  we only have a sixth and seventth, plus maybe a sixth and a couple of seventh comp picks. How much RB talent can we hope to be there at that point.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: That Pats should trade down again.

         I tend to agree that thisis a good year to trade down. But, let me just point out that the teams that have traded up of late have done very well. The Baltimore Ravens scored by trading up for QB, Joe Flacco. They hit paydirt again last year by trading up with the Pats and selecting OT Michael Oher. The Green Bay Packers scored when they traded up with the Pats and selected OLB Clay Matthews.

         Had the Pats selected Oher, the Nick Kaczur reign of error would be over for Tom Brady. Oher and Sebastien Vollmer would have potentially been bookend pro-bowl OTs for years to come...or...had the Pats taken Clay Matthews, they would have found the young, pass-rushing, Mike Vrabel-like defender that they so sorely need.

         Other teams that have done well of late by trading up are the Jets (CB Darrelle Revis, ILB David Harris, and QB Mark Sanchez), and the New Orleans Saints, who traded up three spots with the Pats in 2008 to select DT Sedick Ellis. 

         Over the past several years, the Patriots drafting prowess has declined...as losses in their scouting department have seem to take their toll. Hopefully, their  scouting department will hit nothing but homeruns in 2010.       
     

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