The secondary coaches.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    The secondary coaches.

    Brian Flores and Josh Boyer.

    Flores came to the Pats right after playing at BC in 2004.

    Boyer came to the Pats after being the D Coordinator at South Dakota School of Mines in 2006

    You can believe that BB is the best overall head coach in the game, but that does not make him the best coach for each position. For all we know, Ron Rivera is a way better secondary coach, despite being a poor head coach. BB may be a great head coach, but he's been crap in the secondary. Millow, Law, and Harrison were players who were well established DBs before BB became head coach.

    BB's only hit was Samuel, his next best you could argue was Eugene Wilson...which isn't a great thing.

    To me, he needs to bring a coach outside of his tree who can bring something new to the defense. Flores and Boyer have spent their entire NFL careers with the Pats...which leads me to believe they do not bring anything different to the secondary. Unless Boyer learned a lot from the South Dakotas School of Mines...

    This is such a joke. Bring a veteran coach who could bring something different to the table. Quit promoting guys who only know what BB taught them

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsFanInOz. Show PatsFanInOz's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    Agreed. Our secondary coaches seem to take guys that are decent and somehow mess them up. Just one recent example, look at McCourty his first year, then since then. Total regression it seem like, sure, maybe he was injured, but maybe not so much. Most of our guys never turn to look for the ball. Surely they see the receiver turn around. I have to think that's what they are being taught, "don't turn around, you'll lose half a step..." sure, but then they miss a possible interception/defense or they get whacked with a pass interference call for mauling the receiver without going for the ball.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Spetznaz24. Show Spetznaz24's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    I still do not understand how in the world cannot draft a SINGLE good CB or Safety since 2004.  Think about that for a minute.  To display that kind of ineptitude in drafting and developing players in the secondary is simply mind boggling.  It would be shocking if even  Norv Turner went so long in this situation,  but for Bill Belichick to do that is downright embarassing.

    You would think a "defensive genius" would do better than to build one of the worst secondaries ever.  A "defensive genius" is supposed to field a better secondary than it has been in the past 4 years.  There are no excuses for BB regarding this matter. We are not closer to being a good defense than we were 4 years ago.


    How can a group of coaches make so many embarassing moves when it comes to building a decent defensive backfield?

    Deltha O'Neal

    Shawn Springs

    Ellis Hobbs

    Devin McCourty

    Jonathan Wilhite

    Terrance Wheatley

    Darius Butler

    Kyle Arrington

    Sergio Brown

    James Ihejdibo

    Patrick Chung

    Steve Gregory

     

    These are all the guys brought in as FA or drafted by Belichick.

    How is it possible to not even hit on one? Somehow the Jets lose by far the best CB in the league and still manage to play extremely well. Why do the Jets sign Cromartie, and the Pats sign  Shawn  Springs or Deltha O'Neal?  How can they have Kyle Wilson play lights out for them, and the guy we drafted in McCourty is lost on the field.


    We sign S. Gregory this offseason.  The Jets signed  Bell and Landry.   Again, who made the right decisions?

    Dontha Whitner was available as a free agent a few years ago,  the 49ers signed him. I bet he wasn't even on the Pats radar.


    The Seattle Seahawks managed to build one of the best secondaries in the league. They had an idea of what kind of CBs they wanted, and drafted two 6'3 guys in the 4th and 5th round.   The Pats draft a bunch of midgets and injury prone players.

    I can understanding drafting and signing a few guys that  do not meet expectations and are busts.   However for the Patriots it has gotten to be ridicolous.  No FA and drafted players have become good players in the secondary.  That points to ineptitude of the scouts and/or the coaching.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    BB's "defensive genius" moniker needs to go

    He is more of an X's and O's guys.

    He hasn't developed too many players. The Dline was good. But other than that, the core group of the defense were drafted before BB or were veteran FA's.

     

    When it come's to addressing the secondary via FA, theyre usually over the hill players. The one FA he's hit on in the last couple of years was Bodden. I give him credit for Bodden, it's not his fault that Bodden's injuries degenerated his ability so much.

     

    Time to bring in a new defensive mind as either the secondary coach or defensive coordinator. Can't continue to have BB minions scout these players.

     

    And I don't know these guys personally, Flores, Boyer, and even to an extent Patricia, but it would not surprise me one bit if these men were Yes Men.

    Get a veteran Defensive coach who has a mind for secondary players. So that when BB says, "That Ras I Dowling would be a great value pick!", the coach will have the balls to say, "No, Richard Sherman in the 5th would be better!"

    Okay, maybe not at that extent because 31 other teams passed on Sherman for 4 rounds, but hopefully someone else could minimize the amount of mistakes

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    we went that route with Dom Capers , i forget year and what success was had.but I do think it was only one year and out. Was he shown the door or did he get a better offer? i also thought he had that funny tag of DC and asst head coach ..which would have made any lateral move impossible unless head coach job was available and I do not remember that happening.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Spetznaz24. Show Spetznaz24's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    In response to dapats1281's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And I don't know these guys personally, Flores, Boyer, and even to an extent Patricia, but it would not surprise me one bit if these men were Yes Men.

    Get a veteran Defensive coach who has a mind for secondary players. So that when BB says, "That Ras I Dowling would be a great value pick!", the coach will have the balls to say, "No, Richard Sherman in the 5th would be better!"

    Okay, maybe not at that extent because 31 other teams passed on Sherman for 4 rounds, but hopefully someone else could minimize the amount of mistakes

    [/QUOTE]


    Bill Belichick would never bring in someone with his way of doing things on the defensive side.  He admitted two years ago Romeo Crennel would challenge him often when developing a plan against opponents.  Who will  say no to Bill now?   Patricia has shown nothing that leads to me to believe he is doing things differently. 

    BB will never fire a coach because that will be like firing himself. All the coaches are his prodigies and reflection of his way of doing things.


    I do not believe there is any hope regarding the secondary. We don't need them to get "better".  They got "better" last year and still finished as the second worst defense in NFL history. The only QB in the league the defense can stop is Tim Tebow. For all others, it's a guaranteed career day.  So far this season the Pats defense has given up season numbers to Fitzpatrick, Sanchez, Wilson and Flacco.  They are so bad now, that it cannot get worse. Of course it can only get better.  That doesn't mean it will be a good defense.

    I am slowly beginning to understand the idea that Tom Brady has covered up BB's deficiencies for too many years.  I am not saying he isn't a great coach, but look at him without Brady.  The moment Brady comes in,  BB becomes regarded as best ever.  Let's be real, imagine this team without Brady the past 3-4 years? With this inept defense?  This would be the Colts of 2011 without PM all over again. 

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Spetznaz24. Show Spetznaz24's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    In response to mgraham's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we went that route with Dom Capers , i forget year and what success was had.but I do think it was only one year and out. Was he shown the door or did he get a better offer? i also thought he had that funny tag of DC and asst head coach ..which would have made any lateral move impossible unless head coach job was available and I do not remember that happening.

    [/QUOTE]

    He was the Special Teams coach.  Capers wanted to get the DC position with the Pats but BB didn't want to give it to him.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    people are starting to see the writing on the wall.

    bb cant be teh best at everything, but because of his emotional shortcomings he tries to be.

    draft suffers, coaching suffers, the team and the legacy suffer

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    So he gives it to Patricia that has far less experience than Capers and also don't forget pepper Johnson who in my opinion should have got the DC position. I don't see bb ever changing how he does things. He will surround himself with inferior minds and keep drafting inferior secondary talent. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    people are starting to see the writing on the wall.

    bb cant be teh best at everything, but because of his emotional shortcomings he tries to be.

    draft suffers, coaching suffers, the team and the legacy suffer

    [/QUOTE]

    So true. I can't even remember the last time this team came close to making it to the Super Bowl.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    Hate to say it but guys like me and texpat have been pointing this out for a few years but the sh*t is just hitting the fan now for most fans but I actually made a thread 2 years ago title. "meet the patriots coaches" and explained how we have all these in house promotions and wil never hire outside.  The one time we did was when Capers came in a few years back and he came and went without a peep.  My take was Dom came here and tried to use his agressive schemes and B.B. didnt agree. B.B. doesnt like to blitz and Capers does. I will say its a live n die thing because G.B hasnt exactly had a great secondary but I think thats a little of having that offense scoring quick like ours in G.B.

     

    This tells me B.B. will never hire out again. I dont get how he gives Patricia free reign but wouldnt allow a guy like Capers to help....  He is gonna go down as one the best coaches but also one of the most stubborn, too loyal, egomaniac and the guy that wasted the last 10 years of Brady career by not fielding a competent secondary in a passing league!!!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking12. Show harleyroadking12's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    rehire MANginna

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    In response to harleyroadking12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    rehire MANginna

    [/QUOTE]

    B.B. would never do it, but I bet he could fix this secondary. he was the last GOOD secondary coach we had...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hate to say it but guys like me and texpat have been pointing this out for a few years but the sh*t is just hitting the fan now for most fans but I actually made a thread 2 years ago title. "meet the patriots coaches" and explained how we have all these in house promotions and wil never hire outside.  The one time we did was when Capers came in a few years back and he came and went without a peep.  My take was Dom came here and tried to use his agressive schemes and B.B. didnt agree. B.B. doesnt like to blitz and Capers does. I will say its a live n die thing because G.B hasnt exactly had a great secondary but I think thats a little of having that offense scoring quick like ours in G.B.

     

    This tells me B.B. will never hire out again. I dont get how he gives Patricia free reign but wouldnt allow a guy like Capers to help....  He is gonna go down as one the best coaches but also one of the most stubborn, too loyal, egomaniac and the guy that wasted the last 10 years of Brady career by not fielding a competent secondary in a passing league!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Who were you before when you posted that?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    In response to pezz4pats's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hate to say it but guys like me and texpat have been pointing this out for a few years but the sh*t is just hitting the fan now for most fans but I actually made a thread 2 years ago title. "meet the patriots coaches" and explained how we have all these in house promotions and wil never hire outside.  The one time we did was when Capers came in a few years back and he came and went without a peep.  My take was Dom came here and tried to use his agressive schemes and B.B. didnt agree. B.B. doesnt like to blitz and Capers does. I will say its a live n die thing because G.B hasnt exactly had a great secondary but I think thats a little of having that offense scoring quick like ours in G.B.

     

    This tells me B.B. will never hire out again. I dont get how he gives Patricia free reign but wouldnt allow a guy like Capers to help....  He is gonna go down as one the best coaches but also one of the most stubborn, too loyal, egomaniac and the guy that wasted the last 10 years of Brady career by not fielding a competent secondary in a passing league!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Who were you before when you posted that?

    [/QUOTE]


    Used to be JaySHizzle45 and most recently patsfans76 but I posting got revoked last week and they didnt even tell what i said or give a warning so im at 4 accounts in 6 years which aint too bad considering Crusty the clown has that many just this year and is working on another now..

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    And another thing. And obviously there are other factors that come into it as well (Age, injuries, etc)

     

    But it's weird how as soon as Dean Pees becomes the D coordinator, the play of the Ravens D drops considerably. Hard to compare because Suggs was out for a while and now Lewis and Webb are out...

     

    But they went from very good last season, to horrible this season

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    In response to dapats1281's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And another thing. And obviously there are other factors that come into it as well (Age, injuries, etc)

     

    But it's weird how as soon as Dean Pees becomes the D coordinator, the play of the Ravens D drops considerably. Hard to compare because Suggs was out for a while and now Lewis and Webb are out...

     

    But they went from very good last season, to horrible this season

    [/QUOTE]

    Peas was there last there last year too so that argument isnt going to fly but I will say the ravens defense operates on its own basically with Ed and Ray. Dean is just there NOT to mess it up so to speak but he has talent to work with and doesnt have to blitz like he did here in the SB that cost us the game...

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    South Dekota school of mines most famous graduate is Marcel Marceau.  This is probably why our DB's suck

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    Tcal, is he available to suit up for us this Sunday? I bet he is just the communicator we need bacK there to get our secondary playing right.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dapats1281's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And another thing. And obviously there are other factors that come into it as well (Age, injuries, etc)

     

    But it's weird how as soon as Dean Pees becomes the D coordinator, the play of the Ravens D drops considerably. Hard to compare because Suggs was out for a while and now Lewis and Webb are out...

     

    But they went from very good last season, to horrible this season

    [/QUOTE]

    Peas was there last there last year too so that argument isnt going to fly but I will say the ravens defense operates on its own basically with Ed and Ray. Dean is just there NOT to mess it up so to speak but he has talent to work with and doesnt have to blitz like he did here in the SB that cost us the game...

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Peas was not a coordinator though. And I'm not sure what you meant by the defense operating on it's own. Baltimore has always been a physical D, but it also did a lot to scheme and confuse opposing offenses. Ray and Reed did not develop the game plan. That was done by the coaches

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    In response to Spetznaz24's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I still do not understand how in the world cannot draft a SINGLE good CB or Safety since 2004.  Think about that for a minute.  To display that kind of ineptitude in drafting and developing players in the secondary is simply mind boggling.  It would be shocking if even  Norv Turner went so long in this situation,  but for Bill Belichick to do that is downright embarassing.

    You would think a "defensive genius" would do better than to build one of the worst secondaries ever.  A "defensive genius" is supposed to field a better secondary than it has been in the past 4 years.  There are no excuses for BB regarding this matter. We are not closer to being a good defense than we were 4 years ago.


    How can a group of coaches make so many embarassing moves when it comes to building a decent defensive backfield?

    Deltha O'Neal

    Shawn Springs

    Ellis Hobbs

    Devin McCourty

    Jonathan Wilhite

    Terrance Wheatley

    Darius Butler

    Kyle Arrington

    Sergio Brown

    James Ihejdibo

    Patrick Chung

    Steve Gregory

     

    These are all the guys brought in as FA or drafted by Belichick.

    How is it possible to not even hit on one? Somehow the Jets lose by far the best CB in the league and still manage to play extremely well. Why do the Jets sign Cromartie, and the Pats sign  Shawn  Springs or Deltha O'Neal?  How can they have Kyle Wilson play lights out for them, and the guy we drafted in McCourty is lost on the field.


    We sign S. Gregory this offseason.  The Jets signed  Bell and Landry.   Again, who made the right decisions?

    Dontha Whitner was available as a free agent a few years ago,  the 49ers signed him. I bet he wasn't even on the Pats radar.


    The Seattle Seahawks managed to build one of the best secondaries in the league. They had an idea of what kind of CBs they wanted, and drafted two 6'3 guys in the 4th and 5th round.   The Pats draft a bunch of midgets and injury prone players.

    I can understanding drafting and signing a few guys that  do not meet expectations and are busts.   However for the Patriots it has gotten to be ridicolous.  No FA and drafted players have become good players in the secondary.  That points to ineptitude of the scouts and/or the coaching.

     

    [/QUOTE]You left out Duane Starks.


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: The secondary coaches.

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    South Dekota school of mines most famous graduate is Marcel Marceau.  This is probably why our DB's suck

    [/QUOTE]


    that explains it! our DBs look like guys in that invisible box!

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     

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