This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    the whole thing is giving me flashbacks to the Ron Ehrhardt era

    start talking to Larry Mondello, bring him back as OC . . . and let's hope Romeo, where for art thou, becomes available too
     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    I've seen much worse.

    The '81 team was the best 2-14 team, ever.
     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    Some might argue that Pete Caroll's teams were the most under achieving teams in Pats history. He took a Superbowl team and turned it into a joke, handed the team to Belichick and we were winning Superbowls.This team is going to get a shakeup from top to bottom in the off season but as far as I can tell we should at least back into the playoffs this year. If not I'll agree completely with you.
     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    It is not that they are underachieving as much as that they were never that good in the first place.  This team is a lot closer to be being a 5-7 team (Buff, Balt) than they are 9-3.  The offense still has glimpses of it's former self but has long been predictable.  Moss is clearly slowing down.  The shortcomings on defense have been well documented.

    Given the right draw they could've still been a dangerous play-off team but it looks pretty unlikely that they will finish higher than #3. I don't see this team winning 2 road play-off games. 

     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    This team hasn't seen a top tier draft pick in 10 years.  The Raiders are stocked with top 10 draft picks and they suuck.  That's underachieving.
     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    In Response to Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!:
    [QUOTE]This team hasn't seen a top tier draft pick in 10 years.  The Raiders are stocked with top 10 draft picks and they suuck.  That's underachieving.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    That's right and don't be suprised if BB trades all his top draft picks for middle rounders.  It's not where you pick in the draft that makes a difference, it's how you evaluate talent.  The Patriots have done a lousy job evaluating both draft and free agent talent in recent years and this is a recipe for disaster.
     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    Most underachieving team you have ever seen?  Ever?  I can see where our offense might vie for that title, but not our defense.  How many stars and all-pro's do we have on D that are underachieving?  We have a lot of young players behind the line and it's showing.    
     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    In Response to Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!:
    No I disagree...Pete Carrol never had Brady..and to say that Carrol's teams were better talent wise is just false...Yeah, you may have had a young Willie MCginenest but he stayed in the tub with groin injuries from sexxing too much..We had Ty and Lawyer but not much after that...We had guys that played LB like Marty Moore, are you kidding me?...was Ted Johson that great to make you forget Mayo??...Was Anthony Pleasant better that Ty Warren....Carrols team did bad cuz he was a wuss and didnt make them practice hard....This team has shown n the same game they get dominated that they can dominate said team...You can actually see us playing and being a better team 90% of the time and we proceed to shoot oursleves in the foot...I mean to me its not even close....the record says it all...from 2000-2008...we are 66-1 when leading at the half , this year already we are 0-5 in those same situtations....I mean once you have a team down..stomp them....We have no killa mentality, and we play like JV, when we have a paper championship team...THATS UNDERACHIEVING..when almost the same team that went 16-0..cant even close out the lowly Miami dolphins after goin up 14-0.....??/  Pathetic!!!
    Posted by patsfan76


    1. There is no such thing as a "paper championship team".  SI predicted a Bears Vs. Pats super bowl, that is all that needs to be said about what experts and fans alike can tell about a team based on a roster.

    2.  The same team that went 16-0...... not even close.  Especially on D.  Also that was 2 years ago which is a long time in NFL time in a couple of ways.  First off, the Pats have gotten older, Moss looks like he has and Brady is coming off a lost year, it is not the same team.  Secondly, the rest of the league has had 2 years to get better and also to figure out the Pats.  The Cowboys had the same team in 97 that won 3 Super Bowls earlier in the decade, the problem was they had gotten older and the Packers had gotten younger and better.  This is what happens.
     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    In Response to Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!:
    No I disagree...Pete Carrol never had Brady..and to say that Carrol's teams were better talent wise is just false...Yeah, you may have had a young Willie MCginenest but he stayed in the tub with groin injuries from sexxing too much..We had Ty and Lawyer but not much after that...We had guys that played LB like Marty Moore, are you kidding me?...was Ted Johson that great to make you forget Mayo??...Was Anthony Pleasant better that Ty Warren....Carrols team did bad cuz he was a wuss and didnt make them practice hard....This team has shown n the same game they get dominated that they can dominate said team...You can actually see us playing and being a better team 90% of the time and we proceed to shoot oursleves in the foot...I mean to me its not even close....the record says it all...from 2000-2008...we are 66-1 when leading at the half , this year already we are 0-5 in those same situtations....I mean once you have a team down..stomp them....We have no killa mentality, and we play like JV, when we have a paper championship team...THATS UNDERACHIEVING..when almost the same team that went 16-0..cant even close out the lowly Miami dolphins after goin up 14-0.....??/  Pathetic!!!
    Posted by patsfan76


    I get your points but my expectations weren't as high as yours were this year from the sounds of it. We didn't make the playoffs last year with a mediocre to bad "D" and we unloaded Harrison, Vrabel, Bruschi and Seymour in an effort to get young. Those are huge names to replace. Our offensive line has been decimated with injuries. I just don't think they are truly underachieving.
     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    In Response to Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!:
    No u are right Caward.... I was mostly talking about the offense....thats why I ust mentioned Welker, Moss, and Brady....but to hear Pees tell it he said youth is an excuse and that by now the players know what to do,...so if you take that theory, then they are too, cuz 5 weeks ago we had a top 5 defense, and guys were praisingg our young defense...so I hear and you and agree the offense is more to blame, but the defense isnt without mention...you cant have it both ways....if they were good as we said earlier then they are underperforming now cuz earlier in the year we werent giving up 25- 35 points a game...and maybe we just werent playing anybody good enough to expose us..cuz Wilhite doesnt look like he can cover a Saints spread....but noone notice that he suucked earlier in the year, and remember when McGowan was knocking people out at the line of scrimmage...I haven seen dude hit a running back since Michael Turner...So like I said i you show the ability to be good/great, and then show that you completely suuck and not cover anyone....you are underacheving as well, just not as much as the offense.....Ha-...I have to left...We are done...I'm not even gonna act like making the playoffs is a lock like some of you...These guys aint shown me nothing, and unless F.Taylor is coming back to play DE and CB....it aint changin'  chalk it up!!!
    Posted by patsfan76

    We're talking past each other a bit.  I am not saying the D is not to blame too, I'm simply saying they are not underachieving much.  In other words, there is not a mountain of difference between how they are playing and how they should be expected to be playing given the youth and player turnover.  They did indeed surprise us earlier in the year, but how they are playing now is how a lot of us feared they would start the season.  We are in agreement on the offense.  Even with the 3rd WR questions, we still have a lot of talent.  

    All that said, I really like a saying I sometimes hear; you're never as good as you think you are when you are winning, and never as bad as you think you are when you are losing.  I interpret that to mean there is a fine line between winning and losing.  For all we know, slightly better play calling by our OC and we'd only have 1 loss (Saints).  That is the most disturbing part to me.  Don't know how O'Brian will turn a new leaf at this stage in the season.

     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    I'm not sure how much some of the younger players are working to improve on their mistakes, especially on defense. I tire of seeing the same players make the same mistakes over and over(Wilhite). They seem to think it's no big deal, that Papa Tom and Co. can pull their butts out of the holes they get themselves into, but it doesn't work that way...the offense can't win the game if the defense lets the other team move on them at will...the Dolphins were without their starting QB and RB for crying out loud!
     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    Did we ever, in our wildest dreams, think this team may struggle to even achieve what the 2008 team did in finshing 11 - 5?  With Brady?  I wonder, did the team believe too much in the hype and thought all they had to do was show up and they'd win games?  Brady is back, they thought, we'll pummel them with points!  Well, I guess the offense didn't get the memo and the defense forgot to play tackle football!!
     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    In Response to This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!:
    [QUOTE]Here me out now..Cuz I'm a tell you why I'm mad...Its not like i'm some bandwagon fan who is giving up on his team...And i know the people that are like were not 1-15...you guys are able to look at the glass half full...but you want me to ignore the talent on this team?...I've always said I would rather get blown out than lose a close game...that being said...we not only were close at some point in all are road games...we actually led at the half..when in games like this before this year we were 66-1.....Now I dont want to hear all these excuses...They just plain ol Suuck right now....We show a team we can dominate them, then  were like oh,,you can have this game..we shoot oursleves n da foot,  is whats most upsetting..so if you die hards want to throw on the shades and wait till we make the playoffs (should say IF we make it)  and assume everything's gonna be fine..guess what we will be on the road in the playoffs, and the games will be harder.  So wake up and reaize this 09 team dont have it...they will not have it anytime this year...I mean I honestly think BIll is betting on the game and is more worried about making money than winning games...if u ask me....5 minute convo to come up with a fullback dive..which by the way Sammy Morris admitted this morning to not liking the call either....Overthrow this regime...Bring in Bruschi, and T.Brown as interim coaches...watch our wins go up!!!! Remember in 03..when Brady just started getting good, there was a game against Buffalo - they blitzed him every single down and he burned them time and time again, and that was the game that told me...you cant blitz this dude...You know who our recivers were..thats right  D.Givens n D.Branch...2 guys who cant even stay on the field now.?!?!  and Faulk, A.Smith, and T.Brown...not half as talented compared to what we have now...but they had much more heart than this team....and we had Weiss n Crennel......
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]

    so your saying BB is betting on games? lol your an idiot.

    who ever knows and understands football (obviously not you), can easily see that the patriots are rebuilding defensively, thus our record is what it is 7-5. You are what your record says you are. We are first in the division, even though this is a rebuilding season, on other franchises a rebulding season would end up with a 7-9 or 5-11 type season.

    even though i am dissapointed because i had higher expectations, i fully understand and support our effort thus far, i do think we need to move in a different direction as far as our defensive coordinator position. I just dont think dean pees is a good fit.

    I still think we can win the last 4 games of the season and win the division at 11-5. I bet no one wants to play BB and brady in the playoffs.

    We have a bunch of good draft picks coming up in the next couple years, there is plenty of reason to remain optimistic.
     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    In Response to This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!:
    [QUOTE]...Remember in 03..when Brady just started getting good, there was a game against Buffalo - they blitzed him every single down and he burned them time and time again, and that was the game that told me...you cant blitz this dude...You know who our recivers were..thats right  D.Givens n D.Branch...2 guys who cant even stay on the field now.?!?!  and Faulk, A.Smith, and T.Brown...not half as talented compared to what we have now...
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]

    The absence of outstanding talent was actually the key to their success. Opponents could not figure out where the ball was going. TB was distributing the ball all around. Now, TB has become overdependent on his two star receivers. He's gotten lazy at reading and processing fast. The opponents know where the ball will go when they blitz so they simply pair the blitz with good coverage on Welker and Moss.

    I hope that someone here can confirm, but I bet TB is taking more time now to get rid of the ball, than he was from 2001-2005.


     
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    Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!

    In Response to Re: This is the most underachieving team I have ever seen!:
    [QUOTE]So calmy ..all specifics aside....Does this team look old...Does Brady not throw for 300 yards every game.??/ Did Moss look old when he outran the defense for a 58 yard TD yesterday??    You guys are missing my point...Now if we just couldnt move the ball I would agree with you...but how can you say the same team that dominates the 2nd half is not the same that take the field in the 2nd half......We are averaging more yards a game than we did in 07, and we blew out a team 59-0..somthing we didtn even do in 07...So your argument is off, becasue if a team dominates you for half, and then allows you to come back on 5 occasions it is UNDERACHEIVING!!  Why do you keep making excuses for them...Its the same dammn personell give a take a few scrubs here n there, so on offense you have no Stallworth, but have Aiken,...Do you like stallworth that much to put him miles ahead of Aiken...cuz thats the only significant difference on offense I see, if you wanna take out K.Brady for C.Baker..thats a wash...cuz niether of them catch ..just block... We had HObbs at CB, and Asante (who dropped the pic in SB) Samuel...same LB's but take out Vrabel and put Banta Cain....take out Mayo n out in Bruchi, and take out Sanders and put in McGowan....No big difference that I see There is a such thing as paper champs...Its us  bozo...A team thats good on paper but doenst produce....Where did u come form dude?....Everyone knows a paper champ..They usually have a leader that makes a statement like "Were on a mission" before the season (Brady)   face it..we are the Colts of 03'
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]

    You make no sense.  You say the defense is the same then list off half the d-unit that is new and don't even mention Seymour or Roidney Harrison.  You dismiss Samuel b/c of one play in the Super Bowl??  Samuel would be the Pats best player in the Secondary.  The team just isn't that good.

    All things aside, yeah they do look old and predictable.  Moss can still break a big play but on an every down basis is not looking the threat he was, maybe b/c they don't have a decent 3rd WR. And Aiken is a big step back from Gaffney or Stallworth.
     

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