Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to JintsFan's comment:
    [QUOTE]



    well i looove cruz and i think he can get down the field and make the 50 yd catch which is not welker's game-cruz is a slot/wr type, incredible, had a monster year and is getting hot again

    that said, i will never understand why people use "slot receiver" as a putdown or as something to use against him in contract negotiations-the man has averaged 120-1500 for 5 straight years! i don't care what you call him that is fantastic production. amazing that a giants fan seesm to appreciate welker-as a football fan-than some pats fans.

    i love cruz but he has been amazing for 1.5 years, welker has been for 5.5 years and i have to respect that

    [/QUOTE]

    Good post, you get it while some Pats fans seem not to.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MoreRings' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Agree with all. Don't tell tfb12!

    [/QUOTE]


    Too late!  I heard you guys talking crap already.

    Who is going to call out AH81 from dropping some passes today, well a lot of games.  Heck, I think all the Pats receivers drop passes, why get on Welker?  He's still the best and most successful WR for the Pats...of all time!!

    Last I checked Wes Welker led the league in consecutive seasons with receptions per targets.  Matter of fact, he out shines all major receivers in this category.  Talk about drops all you want but I will take receptions per target all day long!!  Let me refresh your memories here....

    and this was through week 9 this season.  I'm sure his numbers now smokes them all even more. 

    Do you really want me to update this and prove all you "Welker drops passes" people how silly your comments are?  Give me receptions per targets over the lame dropped passes argument all day long!!!  Welker is a beast!! Sign this beast next year!! Matter of fact, hey Mr. Kraft, start savinging you money now, we need Welker next year and the year after!

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with you overrall on the Welker issue but these numbers are completely meaningless. These recievers have diferrent QB's throwing the ball making the comparison completely unscientific and therefore useless. Let me see the numbers comparing him to Lloyd, Gronkowski and Hernandez (probably the primary replacement if Welker leaves). Since we both agree that Brady is probably the best QB in the game it's a bit unfair for Fitgerald that since Warner retired his QB's have generally been terrible. I like Welker a lot but he did drop an easy TD pass today which cost them 4 points. Not all drops are equal as you know. A dropped pass on first down when the team still gets a first down on the next two plays is less important than a TD drop which contributes to 3 points instead of 7 (or worse if the field goal gets blocked).

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to JintsFan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i am not a pats fan at all

    [/QUOTE]

    This has always been pretty clear around here.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from darwk. Show darwk's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    Wes had 12 catches, including a TD, for over 100 yards.  Pats fans are very very fortunate to have his talent & skill. I have nothing bt appreciation for the man.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I agree with you overrall on the Welker issue but these numbers are completely meaningless. These recievers have diferrent QB's throwing the ball making the comparison completely unscientific and therefore useless. Let me see the numbers comparing him to Lloyd, Gronkowski and Hernandez (probably the primary replacement if Welker leaves). Since we both agree that Brady is probably the best QB in the game it's a bit unfair for Fitgerald that since Warner retired his QB's have generally been terrible. I like Welker a lot but he did drop an easy TD pass today which cost them 4 points. Not all drops are equal as you know. A dropped pass on first down when the team still gets a first down on the next two plays is less important than a TD drop which contributes to 3 points instead of 7 (or worse if the field goal gets blocked).

    [/QUOTE]


    Sure a good QB has a bit to do with these numbers but so does the ability for a receiver to get open and to make the reception when he is targeted.  These numbers show Welker can get open and make the reception when targeted.  You are saying that is not an important stat?  WoW!!

     

    Kurt Warner retired after the 2009 season. Lets look at Fitzgeralds numbers from  2006 (when they started keeping track of these stats) to when Warner retired after 2009.

    2006 Fitgerald's receptions per target was 62.16%, 2007 was 59.88%, 2008 was 62.34%, 2009 was 63.04%.  Hmmm, kind of shoots down the theory of who they have passing to them.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    Ok, lets look more into these numbers to see if it has to do with the QB.

    Gronk 3 year reception to target % is 71.71%

    Aaron Hernandez 3 year reception to target % is 70.1%

    Jimmy Graham of the Saints 3 year reception to target % is 67.26%

    Here is the kicker.... Tom Brady 3 year reception % average is 65.57% while Drew Brees 3 year reception average is 67.03%.  So if you are saying that the QB has a lot to do with it then you would think Graham's numbers would be higher then Gronk or AH81.  It isn't.  Gronk and AH81 can get open and make the reception more then Graham can. 

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    now if u go comparing welker to fitzgerald or megatron then gotta draw a line

    they are true WR and on a elite level-ww is unique and incredibly productive but i wouldn't go using the above guys nor andre johnson as comparisons

    [/QUOTE]

    Let me ask you this...

    Who would you rather have as a WR...

    Wes Welker who can get open and catches 73% of his targets or Andre Johnson who gets open and catches 64% of his targets?

    I will take Wes Welker every time!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ok, lets look more into these numbers to see if it has to do with the QB.

    Gronk 3 year reception to target % is 71.71%

    Aaron Hernandez 3 year reception to target % is 70.1%

    Jimmy Graham of the Saints 3 year reception to target % is 67.26%

    Here is the kicker.... Tom Brady 3 year reception % average is 65.57% while Drew Brees 3 year reception average is 67.03%.  So if you are saying that the QB has a lot to do with it then you would think Graham's numbers would be higher then Gronk or AH81.  It isn't.  Gronk and AH81 can get open and make the reception more then Graham can. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Doesn't this refute your argument that it's a Welker thing and not a Patriots offense thing? 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    [/QUOTE]

    Doesn't this refute your argument that it's a Welker thing and not a Patriots offense thing? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Explain!?!?!

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    [/QUOTE]

    Doesn't this refute your argument that it's a Welker thing and not a Patriots offense thing? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Explain!?!?!

    [/QUOTE]

    If Gronk and Aaron all have 70% reception rates, doesn't that say that these guys flourish in our offense by having one of the greatest, if not the greatest, QB of all time throwing them the ball? 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    [/QUOTE]


    well its not so much pct as the type of catches they can make and where on the field

    [/QUOTE]

    It shows if a receiver can get open and make the catch.  Wes Welker gets open and makes the catch.  Everyone is complaining about dropped balls, well if he is getting open and is the target receiver and doesn't make the catch (drops the ball) then it is going to reflect in his % here.  Wes Welker's % is much higher then everyone on the list, it pretty much makes the argument of Wes Welker dropping balls a very silly argument if he is getting open and catching the highest % of his targets.  I will take his drops and 73% of his receptions/targets over the others.  I have seen Victor Cruz drop many balls this season, heck he had 3 easy drops against the Cowboys in their first meeting, is he getting old and unreliable?   The WW shouldn't be signed next year by the Patriots because he is getting old and dropping key passes is a really silly and foolish argument.  Especially with his reception to target % is still over 70% the last 3 years.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    [/QUOTE]

    Doesn't this refute your argument that it's a Welker thing and not a Patriots offense thing? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Explain!?!?!

    [/QUOTE]

    If Gronk and Aaron all have 70% reception rates, doesn't that say that these guys flourish in our offense by having one of the greatest, if not the greatest, QB of all time throwing them the ball? 

    [/QUOTE]


    If that is your argument then Jimmy Graham should have a higher % then both Gronk and AH81 because Drew Brees completion % is better then TFB.  Or maybe, just maybe Gronk and AH81 are better then Jimmy Graham at getting open and catching the ball when they are targeted.  I would go with Gronk and AH81 being better then Graham at getting open and catching the ball when they are targeted.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to JintsFan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    [/QUOTE]


    well its not so much pct as the type of catches they can make and where on the field

    [/QUOTE]

    It shows if a receiver can get open and make the catch.  Wes Welker gets open and makes the catch.  Everyone is complaining about dropped balls, well if he is getting open and is the target receiver and doesn't make the catch (drops the ball) then it is going to reflect in his % here.  Wes Welker's % is much higher then everyone on the list, it pretty much makes the argument of Wes Welker dropping balls a very silly argument if he is getting open and catching the highest % of his targets.  I will take his drops and 73% of his receptions/targets over the others.  I have seen Victor Cruz drop many balls this season, heck he had 3 easy drops against the Cowboys in their first meeting, is he getting old and unreliable?   The WW shouldn't be signed next year by the Patriots because he is getting old and dropping key passes is a really silly and foolish argument.  Especially with his reception to target % is still over 70% the last 3 years.

    [/QUOTE]


    i agree with all that if that is the way u r using that % stat...

    [/QUOTE]


    That is exactly!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from polar123. Show polar123's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    [/QUOTE]


    well its not so much pct as the type of catches they can make and where on the field

    [/QUOTE]

    It shows if a receiver can get open and make the catch.  Wes Welker gets open and makes the catch.  Everyone is complaining about dropped balls, well if he is getting open and is the target receiver and doesn't make the catch (drops the ball) then it is going to reflect in his % here.  Wes Welker's % is much higher then everyone on the list, it pretty much makes the argument of Wes Welker dropping balls a very silly argument if he is getting open and catching the highest % of his targets.  I will take his drops and 73% of his receptions/targets over the others.  I have seen Victor Cruz drop many balls this season, heck he had 3 easy drops against the Cowboys in their first meeting, is he getting old and unreliable?   The WW shouldn't be signed next year by the Patriots because he is getting old and dropping key passes is a really silly and foolish argument.  Especially with his reception to target % is still over 70% the last 3 years.

    [/QUOTE]


    I will give you credit, you fight the good fight and you are right on Welker(cue the haters). I guess 12 catches, 103 yds, TD, isn't good enough for some. A dropped TD pass is all that matters.  Most teams would kill for that kind of production, and we will find out just how much if the Pats let Welker walk. 

    Be careful what you wish for. If Welker is the product of a great QB, I can only imagine the reaction on this forum the first time they say "Peyton Manning 24 yrd TD to Wes Welker."

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I agree with you overrall on the Welker issue but these numbers are completely meaningless. These recievers have diferrent QB's throwing the ball making the comparison completely unscientific and therefore useless. Let me see the numbers comparing him to Lloyd, Gronkowski and Hernandez (probably the primary replacement if Welker leaves). Since we both agree that Brady is probably the best QB in the game it's a bit unfair for Fitgerald that since Warner retired his QB's have generally been terrible. I like Welker a lot but he did drop an easy TD pass today which cost them 4 points. Not all drops are equal as you know. A dropped pass on first down when the team still gets a first down on the next two plays is less important than a TD drop which contributes to 3 points instead of 7 (or worse if the field goal gets blocked).

    [/QUOTE]


    Sure a good QB has a bit to do with these numbers but so does the ability for a receiver to get open and to make the reception when he is targeted.  These numbers show Welker can get open and make the reception when targeted.  You are saying that is not an important stat?  WoW!!

     

    Kurt Warner retired after the 2009 season. Lets look at Fitzgeralds numbers from  2006 (when they started keeping track of these stats) to when Warner retired after 2009.

    2006 Fitgerald's receptions per target was 62.16%, 2007 was 59.88%, 2008 was 62.34%, 2009 was 63.04%.  Hmmm, kind of shoots down the theory of who they have passing to them.

    [/QUOTE]


    Your still being completely off base with your numbers. First of all I like Welker and want him to stay. Notice how Fitzgeralds numbers have dropped dramatically since Warner retired after the 2009 season. Fitzgerald is also not a slot reciever he is closer in style to your previous favorite Moss though Calvin Johnson is more similar to Moss than Fitzgerald. You put any of those recievers on your list with the Pats their numbers will improve because of Brady who is a much better QB than all those players QB's except for perhaps Wayne's (yes Brady is better than Brees and it's not even close). Welker was great in 2007 but you do not believe he was better than Moss now do you (do not forget you wanted Moss back on the Pats earlier this year). Welker is probably the best slot reciever in the NFL though Cruz makes more big plays with his speed but Welker is not the best reciever on the Pats, Gronkowski is (his % is higher according to your stats since they became teammates it appears). I would definately take Andre Johnson over Welker by the way if the pay was equal (out of curiosity how many bubble screens a year does Andre Johnson catch?).

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to polar123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    [/QUOTE]


    well its not so much pct as the type of catches they can make and where on the field

    [/QUOTE]

    It shows if a receiver can get open and make the catch.  Wes Welker gets open and makes the catch.  Everyone is complaining about dropped balls, well if he is getting open and is the target receiver and doesn't make the catch (drops the ball) then it is going to reflect in his % here.  Wes Welker's % is much higher then everyone on the list, it pretty much makes the argument of Wes Welker dropping balls a very silly argument if he is getting open and catching the highest % of his targets.  I will take his drops and 73% of his receptions/targets over the others.  I have seen Victor Cruz drop many balls this season, heck he had 3 easy drops against the Cowboys in their first meeting, is he getting old and unreliable?   The WW shouldn't be signed next year by the Patriots because he is getting old and dropping key passes is a really silly and foolish argument.  Especially with his reception to target % is still over 70% the last 3 years.

    [/QUOTE]


    I will give you credit, you fight the good fight and you are right on Welker(cue the haters). I guess 12 catches, 103 yds, TD, isn't good enough for some. A dropped TD pass is all that matters.  Most teams would kill for that kind of production, and we will find out just how much if the Pats let Welker walk. 

    Be careful what you wish for. If Welker is the product of a great QB, I can only imagine the reaction on this forum the first time they say "Peyton Manning 24 yrd TD to Wes Welker."

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Thanks, dude! And it looks like you get it too!

    To the others...

    look at 2006 when Wes Welker played for the Dolphins and Daunte Culpepper was the QB, Wes got open and caught 67.68% of his passes that he was the target for.  Still better then others on the list and that was with Culpepper throwing to him.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    Well, I hope WW stays on terms favorable to both sides.  Equally as important as his productivity is his durability.  He takes a beating each and every game and keeps playing.  Contrast him with Edelman.  Edelman has come on strong this year.  There is just one problem.  The guy doesn't have a football body.  We'll be lucky if he plays in half the games.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    [/QUOTE]


    well its not so much pct as the type of catches they can make and where on the field

    [/QUOTE]

    It shows if a receiver can get open and make the catch.  Wes Welker gets open and makes the catch.  Everyone is complaining about dropped balls, well if he is getting open and is the target receiver and doesn't make the catch (drops the ball) then it is going to reflect in his % here.  Wes Welker's % is much higher then everyone on the list, it pretty much makes the argument of Wes Welker dropping balls a very silly argument if he is getting open and catching the highest % of his targets.  I will take his drops and 73% of his receptions/targets over the others.  I have seen Victor Cruz drop many balls this season, heck he had 3 easy drops against the Cowboys in their first meeting, is he getting old and unreliable?   The WW shouldn't be signed next year by the Patriots because he is getting old and dropping key passes is a really silly and foolish argument.  Especially with his reception to target % is still over 70% the last 3 years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Welker's is not a lot higher than everyone on that list. It appears to be the same or less than Gronkowski's since Moss left. Brady's weakness is the deep ball, certainly not on the dink and dunk passes that Welker, Hernandez and Gronkowski specialize in. Show the drop stats and not the percentageas whichn appear to be biased towards the quality of a player's QB if you want to refute an argument about dropped passes. By the way, where did you get your numbers for 2012. According to Stats inc Welker is below 70% in 2012 behind Gronkowski. Welker wasn't even in the top 20.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to carawaydj's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well, I hope WW stays on terms favorable to both sides.  Equally as important as his productivity is his durability.  He takes a beating each and every game and keeps playing.  Contrast him with Edelman.  Edelman has come on strong this year.  There is just one problem.  The guy doesn't have a football body.  We'll be lucky if he plays in half the games.

    [/QUOTE]


    Danny Amendola has been another name thrown around for a couple years now, he is another player who if could stay healthy could be very good.  But he can't stay healthy, last year, now this year... these guys are made of glass.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    maybe you can send me a few of your back yard pick up team players. maybe give bb a call. inane.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Tired of Welker dropping critical passes.

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree with you overrall on the Welker issue but these numbers are completely meaningless. These recievers have diferrent QB's throwing the ball making the comparison completely unscientific and therefore useless. Let me see the numbers comparing him to Lloyd, Gronkowski and Hernandez (probably the primary replacement if Welker leaves). Since we both agree that Brady is probably the best QB in the game it's a bit unfair for Fitgerald that since Warner retired his QB's have generally been terrible. I like Welker a lot but he did drop an easy TD pass today which cost them 4 points. Not all drops are equal as you know. A dropped pass on first down when the team still gets a first down on the next two plays is less important than a TD drop which contributes to 3 points instead of 7 (or worse if the field goal gets blocked).

    [/QUOTE]


    OKay, let's take Brandon Lloyd, we all know he drops passes, how does that impact his reception/target %... Well this year Brandon Lloyd has (through 11 games) been targeted 88 times and has 50 receptions, which is 56.82%.  Same QB as Welker, so do dropped pass influence these numbers?  You bet they do!!  Time to stop the lame and silly Welker is getting old and drops too many passes crazyness.  The Patriots need to resign this man!!

     

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