V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bergzilla. Show Bergzilla's posts

    V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    It seems that Vontae is a better corner than Butler. Did BB mess up?

    Thoughts? Bashings?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    No, No matter who we put in on defense it will be a disaster right now. We need to retool in the coaching department and go from there.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from K-max. Show K-max's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    Sammy Davis Jr. is a better option at this point and he's dead.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    First, I had Davis on my board higher than either player.

    However, this is a grass is greener type observation.

    If these teams were reversed people would be talking about how he has been burned by Moss twice on long TDs this season, and how at least Butler doesn't give up the big play.

    Davis gets chances at picks because NE's offensive line has been offensive over the last four games. Pure and simple.

    If a three man rush brings pressure, then you aren't going to be tremendously effective passing the ball. Period.

    It is a simple numbers game.

    3 vs 6 with success at the line, means that the other five offensive players have to beat 8 men quickly.The other team can still drop two safeties rolling on over to Moss's side and bracket Welker.

    In 2007 they couldn't do that because the line would laugh at a three man rush, and Brady would have all day to hit one of four WRs who could be single coverage.

    Look at the Saints. Brees has now what Brady had in 2007. Four legit weapons. Actually five . . . because Watson couldn't carry Shockey's shoes as a reciever.

    NE needs to add some serious talent, AND have a killer draft with at least one IMPACT rookie next season, or this could be a bit of a rebuilding cycle before they are legit contenders.

    Sign someone like Merriman. Sign someone like Kevin Walter as a #3. Draft a beast OL. Or a TE. And get a legit RB who commands the respect of the safeties.
     
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sox148927. Show sox148927's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    chung is irrelevent in this debate, but it's pretty obvious vontae davis is better than anything we have at that position other than bodden. who knows with springs, he gets paid to hang out and watch our kids get embarrassed. the book is out on the pats secondary, just attack anyone not named bodden and keep an eye open for #31 over the top.  other than that, everyone else is a mismatch easily exploited. opponents picked on wilhite the last few weeks (and even at times today), and did the same to butler today. as a matter of fact it was borderline ridiculous how much they threw at butler today, how much of henne's career day came on that side of the field? i am not putting butler down, in the long run i think he could be good. but we have too weak of a secondary to also have a non-existant pass rush also. those two things together are a disaster waiting to happen. but hey, at very least we can stop the run.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    You're looking at this from the wrong angle.

    Only Revis, Asomugha, and Bailey can cover for longer than 3-4 seconds.

    The Patriots need a PASS RUSH to force QB's to get rid of the ball and make bad decisions.

    Almost any secondary will be picked apart if a QB is given enough time.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bergzilla. Show Bergzilla's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    I mentioned Chung because he was a higher draft pick. Anyone know how long Henne had to throw, on average.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from sox148927. Show sox148927's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    agree that we also need a pass rush, thats a pretty common point and kinda goes without saying...but the thing is, even teams that rush the passer well cant do it every down, even every series. we arent gonna create pressure with 3 man fronts consistently, nor are we gonna blitz on every play. ultimately you also need to be able to cover, they work hand in hand...


    In Response to Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?:
    [QUOTE]You're looking at this from the wrong angle. Only Revis, Asomugha, and Bailey can cover for longer than 3-4 seconds. The Patriots need a PASS RUSH to force QB's to get rid of the ball and make bad decisions. Almost any secondary will be picked apart if a QB is given enough time.
    Posted by NickC1188[/QUOTE]
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from angel3781. Show angel3781's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    Posts: 4282
    First: 3/20/2006
    Last: 12/6/2009
    First, I had Davis on my board higher than either player.

    However, this is a grass is greener type observation.

    If these teams were reversed people would be talking about how he has been burned by Moss twice on long TDs this season, and how at least Butler doesn't give up the big play.

    Davis gets chances at picks because NE's offensive line has been offensive over the last four games. Pure and simple.

    If a three man rush brings pressure, then you aren't going to be tremendously effective passing the ball. Period.

    It is a simple numbers game.

    3 vs 6 with success at the line, means that the other five offensive players have to beat 8 men quickly.The other team can still drop two safeties rolling on over to Moss's side and bracket Welker.

    In 2007 they couldn't do that because the line would laugh at a three man rush, and Brady would have all day to hit one of four WRs who could be single coverage.

    Look at the Saints. Brees has now what Brady had in 2007. Four legit weapons. Actually five . . . because Watson couldn't carry Shockey's shoes as a reciever.

    NE needs to add some serious talent, AND have a killer draft with at least one IMPACT rookie next season, or this could be a bit of a rebuilding cycle before they are legit contenders.

    Sign someone like Merriman. Sign someone like Kevin Walter as a #3. Draft a beast OL. Or a TE. And get a legit RB who commands the respect of the safeties. 
     
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I totally agree with you with ragards to signing Merriman as he could be had for a reasonable price right now due to his current level of play. 

    I happen to feel that we should send our first round pick in this upcoming draft to the Rams in exchange for Steven Jackson because I feel that St. Louis would go for that trade, and we need good players that can play right away (we can't field an entire team of first and second year players).

    As far as OL, I say re-sign Mankins, Keep Vollmer at LT, target a RT in the 2nd round (cut Kaczur due to a 5-6 mil cap figure in 2010 and because we can use an upgrade over him) and play Matt Light at RT atleast for next year, then let him walk.

    With regards to TE, I think for better or worst what you currently see is what you're gonna get.  Maybe in next year's draft we'll target a TE via the draft, but not this year unless we are targeting someone in rounds 3-7.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    In Response to Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?:
    [QUOTE]agree that we also need a pass rush, thats a pretty common point and kinda goes without saying...but the thing is, even teams that rush the passer well cant do it every down, even every series. we arent gonna create pressure with 3 man fronts consistently, nor are we gonna blitz on every play. ultimately you also need to be able to cover, they work hand in hand... In Response to Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung? :
    Posted by sox148927[/QUOTE]

    Great pass rushing teams don't get there all the time, but they do so enough to keep teams honest and make QBs think twice before standing around in the pocket.

    This Patriots team couldn't get to Henne no matter how long he held the ball.  Frankly, I didn't even see many players winning their matchups and breaking through at any point, let alone hurrying a throw.  I bet Henne didn't get hit more than 3 times today.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from sprfrk81. Show sprfrk81's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    i likd both comin out of college, put would hav chosen davis, not jst sayin that not, i hav no prob admiting im wrong, just think he has better upsde, i always go for the guys lik revis, who by the way pats could off had, luv him comin out to, but guys that dont just hav long speed quick physical guy who r good in short space, after all that, who knos to early to tell
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from sox148927. Show sox148927's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    dont dispute that, you are correct. i dont wanna downplay the importance of the pass rush any more than i wanna overstate it either. all i am saying is that both pieces work hand in hand, and right now they are just collectively bad other than stuffing the run. they cant cover or rush the passer, and thats a dangerous combination because if they could do one it might be a bit easier masking the other...


    In Response to Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung? : Great pass rushing teams don't get there all the time, but they do so enough to keep teams honest and make QBs think twice before standing around in the pocket. This Patriots team couldn't get to Henne no matter how long he held the ball.  Frankly, I didn't even see many players winning their matchups and breaking through at any point, let alone hurrying a throw.  I bet Henne didn't get hit more than 3 times today.
    Posted by NickC1188[/QUOTE]
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    In Response to Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?:
    [QUOTE]dont dispute that, you are correct. i dont wanna downplay the importance of the pass rush any more than i wanna overstate it either. all i am saying is that both pieces work hand in hand, and right now they are just collectively bad other than stuffing the run. they cant cover or rush the passer, and thats a dangerous combination because if they could do one it might be a bit easier masking the other... In Response to Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung? :
    Posted by sox148927[/QUOTE]

    I hear you.

    I just think that the coverage did a decent job today for 4-5 seconds, then gave up a crossing route because the pass rush didn't get there in time.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from K-max. Show K-max's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    Betty Davis is better. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mangoman. Show Mangoman's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?


    Vontae Davis is better than Chung, Butler AND Brace combined.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonBobBlowhard. Show BostonBobBlowhard's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    In Response to V. davis better than Butler or Chung?:
    [QUOTE]It seems that Vontae is a better corner than Butler. Did BB mess up? Thoughts? Bashings?
    Posted by Bergzilla[/QUOTE]

    Of course he is better and of course BB messed up (again). He has blown the last 4 drafts. Last year we had control of the draft and could have either stood pat and taken needed players or traded UP to get impact players. Instead, BB makes trades so he can pick multiple mediocrities while teams he traded with are nailing Mathews and Oher. Not knowing we needed serious DB help, and picking Chung (not highly rated by other teams), was stupid. Davis was higher rated by everyone than Butler. Butler couldn't tackle Rosie O'Donnell and was always soft in college.And Brace so high was a total reach.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonBobBlowhard. Show BostonBobBlowhard's posts

    Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?

    In Response to Re: V. davis better than Butler or Chung?:
    [QUOTE]You're looking at this from the wrong angle. Only Revis, Asomugha, and Bailey can cover for longer than 3-4 seconds. The Patriots need a PASS RUSH to force QB's to get rid of the ball and make bad decisions. Almost any secondary will be picked apart if a QB is given enough time.
    Posted by NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    Amen. But BB knew this and he has become so arrogant in his "genius" that he ignored it. The rest of the league's coaches have caught up with him, and many have sped by him.
     

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