WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    The regulars know that I'm not an "end of the world" kind of guy, but I'm alarmed that the Jets exposed all of the same problems we had last season, right down to some of the same coverage techniques that New Orleans used on Welker (that I thought they took time to figure out).

    I'm incredibly alarmed because I could have posted this 9 months ago and it would have been just as true then as it is now

    (1) No 3rd down defense: gave up 6-13, which is terrible against a team helmed by Mark Sanchez.

    (2) No red zone defense

    (3) No second-half offense; no productive offensive adjustments; no offensive coordinator

    (4) Can't finish games

    (5) Can't play on the road


    Yes, we're only two games into the season, but I expected to see improvement from last season.  It's terrible that this team still has all of the same weaknesses.  I hoped some of these problems would have been resolved or at least improved so we could turn our attention to higher-level things like making big plays and producing turnovers on defense.

    The Bills don't count unless the Pats lose because the Bills have been terrible for forever.  I'm anxious to see how the Pats handle the Dolphins in two weeks.  It will say a lot about where this season is going if they continue to make the same mistakes against any competitive team.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JerrySpringer. Show JerrySpringer's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    In Response to WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR:
    [QUOTE]The regulars know that I'm not an "end of the world" kind of guy, but I'm alarmed that the Jets exposed all of the same problems we had last season, right down to some of the same coverage techniques that New Orleans used on Welker (that I thought they took time to figure out). I'm incredibly alarmed because I could have posted this 9 months ago and it would have been just as true then as it is now (1) No 3rd down defense: gave up 6-13, which is terrible against a team helmed by Mark Sanchez. (2) No red zone defense (3) No second-half offense; no productive offensive adjustments; no offensive coordinator (4) Can't finish games (5) Can't play on the road Yes, we're only two games into the season, but I expected to see improvement from last season.  It's terrible that this team still has all of the same weaknesses.  I hoped some of these problems would have been resolved or at least improved so we could turn our attention to higher-level things like making big plays and producing turnovers on defense. The Bills don't count unless the Pats lose because the Bills have been terrible for forever.  I'm anxious to see how the Pats handle the Dolphins in two weeks.  It will say a lot about where this season is going if they continue to make the same mistakes against any competitive team.
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188[/QUOTE]
    The Bills will have nothing to lose this week and will beat the Patriots. THen they will be crushed by Miami. looks like 1 and 3
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dessalines. Show Dessalines's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    Artist....  That is a fair summation of the issue for sure.  I don't see that they will fix them if they haven't done so in nine months since the Ravens beat the &%#$! out of them. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    In Response to Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR:
    [QUOTE]Artist....  That is a fair summation of the issue for sure.  I don't see that they will fix them if they haven't done so in nine months since the Ravens beat the &%#$! out of them. 
    Posted by Dessalines[/QUOTE]

    me either. we'll see...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    i hope i am wrong but i am starting to get concerned that other coaches have figured out how to beat bb's brand of 3-4.

    for the past four years, i noticed that teams have become good at finding those open spaces that the zone leaves. opposing receivers catch the ball within 2-3 yards at the moment of the catch. i think because the zone is pretty static - other teams are able to anticipate where those open spaces will be. it does not help that the other team also knows that the qb can afford to be patient with throwing the ball.

    interestingly, take butler out of the equation, this is the first time in a while that i've seen the secondary possess this much speed. i actually think they have the talent to play one-on-one every now and then. it's too bad that the talent is not being leveraged in the zone.

    of course i can be dead wrong. that said, the pats d has not worked in three maybe four years.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    sorry...in the second paragraph i meant to say 2-3 yards of space around them
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    In Response to Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR:
    [QUOTE]i hope i am wrong but i am starting to get concerned that other coaches have figured out how to beat bb's brand of 3-4. for the past four years, i noticed that teams have become good at finding those open spaces that the zone leaves. opposing receivers catch the ball within 2-3 yards at the moment of the catch. i think because the zone is pretty static - other teams are able to anticipate where those open spaces will be. it does not help that the other team also knows that the qb can afford to be patient with throwing the ball. interestingly, take butler out of the equation, this is the first time in a while that i've seen the secondary possess this much speed. i actually think they have the talent to play one-on-one every now and then. it's too bad that the talent is not being leveraged in the zone. of course i can be dead wrong. that said, the pats d has not worked in three maybe four years.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    The defense is designed to funnel people into certian areas, but if the offense figures out where those areas are they can still produce.  There's also a lot of thinking and disguise work.  It's tough to find the right players to play in this system.

    Reiss had a good bit on how Pioli said they thought the defense was dead in '86, then the Giants won it again in '90, then the Pats went to the Super Bowl in '96, then the Pats won the Super Bowl in '01, '03, & '04.

    But I look at this as another year of Brady's prime wasted... and I don't see the problems I listed going away this year.  This team looks two years away

    This team faced a battle w/o injuries.  Now idk

    Again, I expected PROGRESS from last year.  I saw all the same problems against the Jets, which is discouraging.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    Same problem in the last half of football but they can still work it out.  Getting angry about it like they did after the game isn't going to help, but hard work and practice will. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    In Response to Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR : The defense is designed to funnel people into certian areas, but if the offense figures out where those areas are they can still produce.  There's also a lot of thinking and disguise work.  ....
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    you are exactly right. despite all the disguises, the other teams now know where they are being funneled they are just, and they are using nwe's scheme against itself. this actually made me think that the reason samuel got so many picks is he was willing to go out of script. he was in places where the qb did not think anyone would be under bb's scheme.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    In Response to WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR:
    [QUOTE] (3) No second-half offense; no productive offensive adjustments; no offensive coordinator
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188[/QUOTE]
    Yep, plain vanilla ice craem.  O'Brien needs to step down.  We need someone with some imagination.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Coolguy55220. Show Coolguy55220's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    Defense: Dont forget bodden's injury though... thats a major issue.. Imagine Bodden and Mccourty as the 2 starting corners... I think the defense would look a whole lot better. It will take time and young corners will make mistakes. If butler figures out the technique, they'll be solid. Hes always around the ball and the WR, he just hasnt figured out how to play, turn and look for the ball to knock it away. I am sure coaches will work with him, now if he figures it out or not is what will decide how this defense turns out.

    Offense: I have more faith that the offense will be fixed. Look at the play calling in the first half, it was amazing. We saw none of that last year, so thats progress. It will get more consistant once they figure out what works well and what doesnt. I am convinced the TE's will be a major part going forward. Welker, Edelman, Tate will all be included by the end of the season, but not every offense can GEL like the 2007 Pats did and to expect it is not realistic. We need to give both Offense and Defense until week 8-10, if we still the same problems, then lets hope for a top 5 pick from OAK and go for next year.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from emiliosCA. Show emiliosCA's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    We are two games in.

    I'll admit, you have a real point with the way last game turned out (and the cincy game 2nd half was sugarcoated, as was the supposed "blowout" even though 2 TDs were from D/ST).  But there is a long ways to go and there are also a lot of different factors this year.  I'll jump on this krap-aid wagon if we can all continue to say this week 10.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    I'm not going to claim to be an expert on the intricacies of BB's 3-4 defense, but it seems to me that the scheme is designed to stop the run and the long pass first and let teams try to beat you with lots of short passes.  The theory, I presume, is that most teams aren't going to be able to consistently complete enough of these passes to sustain multiple long drives.  For the defense to work, the LBs and DBs need to make just enough plays on short passes to keep teams from consistently getting first downs.  Even in the Super Bowl years the Pats' defense was described as "bend but don't break"--and the team often gave up big chunks of yards on short passes, but rarely allowed teams to mount long scoring drives. 

    What is happening now--or at least what happened in the second halves of both the Jets game and the Cincy game--is that teams seem able to complete passes against our corners (especially Butler) almost at will.  The corners weren't in position to break up plays and safeties (or maybe LBs in some cases) weren't in position to help the corners.  That could be a scheme problem, but honestly I think it's more talent, particularly at corner.  For the defense to work, Butler only has to be able to break up a relatively small percentage of the passes thrown his way (maybe one in three).  The problem is that he seems to be able to break up none of them. Every pass is a completion.  

    A better pass rush might help us here a bit, but I don't think the BB defense relies so much on pressure as it does on stopping the run and protecting against big play passes.  It's not an attacking defense as much as it's a conservative protect-against-big-plays defense.  Maybe a switch to a more aggressive attacking scheme would work better--a lot of the top defenses (Ravens, Jets) are attacking defenses now--but I don't think BB's scheme would need to change if only our DBs and especially our corners were a bit more effective at breaking up passes.  The number of completions against Butler has been the prime problem for the Pats in the second halves of both games.  If Butler breaks up just a few of those passes, drives would stall, and our defense would look pretty good.  



     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman2. Show Patsman2's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    Run the Dennis Green "they are who we thought they are" rant to explain the pats defensive play.  They have failed to fix holes in all 3 ares (line, linebackers, CB). 

    Is anyone surprised by their play so far?  "They are who we thought they are!!!!"

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR


    Artist has some valid points. I'm not so much concerned with the defense to be honest. They are young, need to mature, get some playing time together, and get coached up a bit. But it is evident there is a lot of talent especially in the secondary. The defense does not have to be stellar. As long as they can contain the damage, get off the field every once and a while on 3rd down and stop long plays. It will take time, but I think this defense will be good. 

    My concern is primarily on offense. Because, we are suffering the same 2nd half woes as we did last year. I know it's a different offense, but not being able to score in 2nd halves is hurting us and putting undue pressure on a very young D. I don't know if it is carryover from last year, or this is really a "brand new year"...but we still after 2 games seem to be struggling in the 2nd half and the stats tell the story...I've pointed it out below using the Jets game for example... 

    We have 2 games under our belt and we have exactly 7 2nd half points, compared to 45 1st half points. The 1st half vs 2nd half time of possession on offense is quite telling. 
    Take the Jets game for example, we have TOP of roughly 18min in the 1st half, and 8.5 minutes in the 2nd half. We ran 35 offensive plays in the 1st half and 23 offensive plays in the 2nd half. We had 4 drives in the 1st half resulting in 2 TD's, a punt and a missed FG. In the 2nd half we had 5 drives resulting in 2 interceptions, 1 fumble, and 2 punts. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    In Response to Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR:
    [QUOTE]Artist has some valid points. I'm not so much concerned with the defense to be honest. . .  My concern is primarily on offense. Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    I have concerns with the corners on defense, but your point is well taken about the offense in the second half.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say what's hurting us in the second half is that we don't get enough from our running game.  We seem to want to run more in the second half (sensible strategy if we have a lead, since it eats clock), but we aren't getting many yards.  A failed run and then a long (incomplete) pass to Moss will kill any drive.  This is happening way too much.  We go with ineffective runs, then try to make up for a no-gain play with a long pass.  In the first half, we're moving primarily with short passes.  Maybe that's what we have to do in the second half too. 

    I could be wrong on the above because I don't have film to look at and really break down what's happening (and my memory certainly isn't perfect at my advanced age), but I get a sense that we're changing things up a bit in the second half to favor run and it's not working for us. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR

    In Response to Re: WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS WE HAD LAST YEAR:
    [QUOTE]Same problem in the last half of football but they can still work it out.  Getting angry about it like they did after the game isn't going to help, but hard work and practice will. 
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]

         The Patriots should be angry and embarrassed over that beat-down they took in NY. I hope that they're livid. It might turn their season around.
     

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