What Brady really did in 42&46.

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to Jets's comment:
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    Those are 2 of my favorite pictures in Sports that and the one of Brady laying on the ground in the SB with the Giants defense celebrating around him on the cover of SI...that one is framed and on my office wall!

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    Is it next to the SB 3 champions banner, and the other banner with the 3 division titles since the merger?

     
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    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    another thread to bash the patriots.....  when we win this year and the whole team plays great there will be some miserable people here. are all boston fans this negative?

     
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    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to sporter81's comment:
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    another thread to bash the patriots.....  when we win this year and the whole team plays great there will be some miserable people here. are all boston fans this negative?

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    What the hell are you talking about? This thread is about Brady and the true merit of his play in the 2 SB losses. Any comments about the abysmal failures of the D are secondary observations and not central to the thrust of the thread.

    If you find anybody on the face of the Earth who thinks a defensive collapse in the last minutes of a SB is a good thing, let me know.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
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    SB 42 was the last playoff game, other than the Denver divisional win last year that Brady was the better QB. He was the worse of the 2 QBs in both last years AFC Champ and SB

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    No way.  The receving core was worse, not the QB.  It took Eli two different receivers making ridiculously spectacular catches in the closing minutes of both SB games.  Utterly silly catches, especially Tyree's.

    Closing minutes of last year's SB, one could argue that Brady could've throw the ball better to Welker, but bottom line is, if Wes makes that catch, Brady's wearing another ring, not Eli.

    And that's to say nothing of the fact that Gronk was meaningless in that game.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    Still amazes me how many Pats fans still blame the Brady to Welker pass as the sole reason for losing the SB last season.  Especially since week in and week out we see some of the best WR in the game dropping easier passes then that.  Sure, still shots make it look bad but when you watch the play at regular speed that was a very hard ball to catch.  Apparently you guys have never played the game.  And to think, without Welker the Pats wouldn't even had a shot at winning the SB, probably wouldn't have even made it there.


    Hell, I'm a freaking Brady fan and have no problem admitting that the throw was horrible.  Wake up to reality fools!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    We all know the ineptitude of our defense which made Eli a legend in the closing minutes of two Super Bowls led to very bitter losses.

    But what some may not realize is exactly how well Brady played in those.

    If you subtract the 57 second and 29 second desperation drives those defensive collapses forced on him, his PR for each game was....

     

    2011 - 100.85 (despite Gronk KOd)

    2007 - 89.77 (despite being sacked 5 times)

    The 2 combined - 94.6

     

    So much for those who claim his SB performances have diminished. It's more like the team around him has diminished. Especially a defense that had 8 turnovers in the 3 wins and 1 in the two losses.

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    Even if we accept that you can just remove some plays to improve his rating, considering he had a 105.6 rating in 2011 and a whopping 117.2 in 2007 those are still below average performances for him those seasons...

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    When you are left with less than a minute and need to go the length of the field for a TD then you are at a severe disadvantage as a QB. I simply noted what his numbers were before he was put in those last ditch predicaments. Doing that is eminently fair.

    His 2011 numbers were reasonably close (especially considering the Gronk factor) and his 2007 numbers were awesome considering he was sacked 5 times and body slammed another dozen plus times on a bad wheel (which he had surgery on following the season).

    I find it hilarious that anybody can even gather the gall to say a word about either year considering the handicaps he had to deal with.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to wozzy's comment:
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    This thread is another baiting attempt to draw some into argument, just like Prolate's thread about play calling vs execution.  Some of us have tried to avoid the back and forth that makes this board annoying, often with little help from fellow posters and with no help at all from Mods.

    The Patriots haven't won a Super Bowl since 04' and since that time have been bounced in the first round twice, had Brady taken out on a stretcher after the opening play of a season, needed an amazing play by the Sterling Moore to even get out of the AFC Championship game last year and move on.

    Nobody ever said Tom Brady wasn't the best, well with a few exceptions and a troll or two, but it's fairly evident that the Patriot's as a whole are better when Tom Brady is surrounded by a powerful running game.  It's the only common denominator difference between the championship years and every year since.

    To even deny this makes one look foolish, when they win this year it will be even more evident.  Taking threat of play action away from the best play action QB in the game and saying it doesn't make a difference makes one sound stupid... try not to sound stupid.

     

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    I don't know if this is a baiting attempt wozzy. What I do know is that it is an attempt to clarify what Brady has really done in these games. The guy had arguably the best receiver in the game KOd for the SB and people gripe about his 100 game (as noted). It's ridiculous. And the same thing goes for '07. He gets slammed around the whole game and too many people IGNORE that and point to his regular season numbers. What the hell would his regular season numbers have been if he was sacked 5 times a game that year?

    I'm not going to let them ignore these things. Ever.

     
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    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to wozzy's comment:
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    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
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    Even if we accept that you can just remove some plays to improve his rating, considering he had a 105.6 rating in 2011 and a whopping 117.2 in 2007 those are still below average performances for him those seasons...

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    "Points scored" counts for something as well right, that's important...?

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    Just as important as the number of drives you have.

     
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    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    Still amazes me how many Pats fans still blame the Brady to Welker pass as the sole reason for losing the SB last season.  Especially since week in and week out we so some of the best WR in the game dropping easier passes then that.  Sure, still shots make it look bad but when you watch the play at regular speed that was a very hard ball to catch.  Apparently you guys have never played the game.  And to think, without Welker the Pats wouldn't even had a shot at winning the SB, probably wouldn't have even made it there.


    Hell, I'm a freaking Brady fan and have no problem admitting that the throw was horrible.  Wake up to reality fools!

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    He dropped it. Live with that. You're not that much of a freaking Brady fan.

    But I wouldn't call that the worst thing that happened in the game. The 12 man penalty was unforgivably stupid and far worse. At least you can understand how Welker could have dropped that ball. It is impossible to understand how you do a 12 man penalty in the red zone during a SB.

     
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    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to soups' comment:
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    In response to ccsjl's comment:
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    SB 42 was the last playoff game, other than the Denver divisional win last year that Brady was the better QB. He was the worse of the 2 QBs in both last years AFC Champ and SB

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    No way.  The receving core was worse, not the QB.  It took Eli two different receivers making ridiculously spectacular catches in the closing minutes of both SB games.  Utterly silly catches, especially Tyree's.

    Closing minutes of last year's SB, one could argue that Brady could've throw the ball better to Welker, but bottom line is, if Wes makes that catch, Brady's wearing another ring, not Eli.

    And that's to say nothing of the fact that Gronk was meaningless in that game.

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    I find it hilarious that people ignore a player being hobbled who was coming off one of the greatest receiving seasons of all-time, and expecting that missing such a crucial weapon Brady was going to light up the stat book.

    It's like expecting Joe Montana to blowout the other guys in a SB with Jerry Rice on the bench.

     
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    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    Still amazes me how many Pats fans still blame the Brady to Welker pass as the sole reason for losing the SB last season.  Especially since week in and week out we so some of the best WR in the game dropping easier passes then that.  Sure, still shots make it look bad but when you watch the play at regular speed that was a very hard ball to catch.  Apparently you guys have never played the game.  And to think, without Welker the Pats wouldn't even had a shot at winning the SB, probably wouldn't have even made it there.


    Hell, I'm a freaking Brady fan and have no problem admitting that the throw was horrible.  Wake up to reality fools!

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    He dropped it. Live with that. You're not that much of a freaking Brady fan.

    But I wouldn't call that the worst thing that happened in the game. The 12 man penalty was unforgivably stupid and far worse. At least you can understand how Welker could have dropped that ball. It is impossible to understand how you do a 12 man penalty in the red zone during a SB.

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    Yes, he dropped a badly thrown ball.  Live with that!  No excuses, bad thrown ball, bad drop, bad 12 man penalty, bad safety throwing out of the end zone, bad coaching, bad use of Gronk, bad hands by AH81 who to this day drops way too many, bad defense, we can go on and on but you are one of the few here who time and again blames Welker.  Like I said, I'm sure you never played the game and even more sure you never played receiver.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    Still amazes me how many Pats fans still blame the Brady to Welker pass as the sole reason for losing the SB last season.  Especially since week in and week out we so some of the best WR in the game dropping easier passes then that.  Sure, still shots make it look bad but when you watch the play at regular speed that was a very hard ball to catch.  Apparently you guys have never played the game.  And to think, without Welker the Pats wouldn't even had a shot at winning the SB, probably wouldn't have even made it there.


    Hell, I'm a freaking Brady fan and have no problem admitting that the throw was horrible.  Wake up to reality fools!

    [/QUOTE]


    He dropped it. Live with that. You're not that much of a freaking Brady fan.

    But I wouldn't call that the worst thing that happened in the game. The 12 man penalty was unforgivably stupid and far worse. At least you can understand how Welker could have dropped that ball. It is impossible to understand how you do a 12 man penalty in the red zone during a SB.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes, he dropped a badly thrown ball.  Live with that!  No excuses, bad thrown ball, bad drop, bad 12 man penalty, bad safety throwing out of the end zone, bad coaching, bad use of Gronk, bad hands by AH81 who to this day drops way too many, bad defense, we can go on and on but you are one of the few here who time and again blames Welker.  Like I said, I'm sure you never played the game and even more sure you never played receiver.

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    I live quite comfortably with the fact Brady threw the ball badly enough to hit Wes smack dab on both hands and he dropped it.

    "I think he was a little worried about the safety, so he threw it wider or whatever, Welker said. But, I mean, it was right there. It hits me right in the hands. It's one I'll have to live with." (WW)

    E'gad show the man some respect. It demeans him to have people groveling about the pass. He dropped it.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to RockScully's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    Still amazes me how many Pats fans still blame the Brady to Welker pass as the sole reason for losing the SB last season.  Especially since week in and week out we so some of the best WR in the game dropping easier passes then that.  Sure, still shots make it look bad but when you watch the play at regular speed that was a very hard ball to catch.  Apparently you guys have never played the game.  And to think, without Welker the Pats wouldn't even had a shot at winning the SB, probably wouldn't have even made it there.


    Hell, I'm a freaking Brady fan and have no problem admitting that the throw was horrible.  Wake up to reality fools!

    [/QUOTE]


    He dropped it. Live with that. You're not that much of a freaking Brady fan.

    But I wouldn't call that the worst thing that happened in the game. The 12 man penalty was unforgivably stupid and far worse. At least you can understand how Welker could have dropped that ball. It is impossible to understand how you do a 12 man penalty in the red zone during a SB.

    [/QUOTE]

    I am fairly sure the worst int of brady's career is worse than a penalty on the defense in an offensive era.

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    ^ 100% proof that you don't know this game, even a little bit. As a matter of fact, I would say everybody who I have ever seen post here knows football better than you.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    Still amazes me how many Pats fans still blame the Brady to Welker pass as the sole reason for losing the SB last season.  Especially since week in and week out we so some of the best WR in the game dropping easier passes then that.  Sure, still shots make it look bad but when you watch the play at regular speed that was a very hard ball to catch.  Apparently you guys have never played the game.  And to think, without Welker the Pats wouldn't even had a shot at winning the SB, probably wouldn't have even made it there.


    Hell, I'm a freaking Brady fan and have no problem admitting that the throw was horrible.  Wake up to reality fools!

    [/QUOTE]


    He dropped it. Live with that. You're not that much of a freaking Brady fan.

    But I wouldn't call that the worst thing that happened in the game. The 12 man penalty was unforgivably stupid and far worse. At least you can understand how Welker could have dropped that ball. It is impossible to understand how you do a 12 man penalty in the red zone during a SB.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes, he dropped a badly thrown ball.  Live with that!  No excuses, bad thrown ball, bad drop, bad 12 man penalty, bad safety throwing out of the end zone, bad coaching, bad use of Gronk, bad hands by AH81 who to this day drops way too many, bad defense, we can go on and on but you are one of the few here who time and again blames Welker.  Like I said, I'm sure you never played the game and even more sure you never played receiver.

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    I live quite comfortably with the fact Brady threw the ball badly enough to hit Wes smack dab on both hands and he dropped it.

    “I think he was a little worried about the safety, so he threw it wider or whatever,’’ Welker said. “But, I mean, it was right there. It hits me right in the hands. It’s one I’ll have to live with.’’ WW

    E'gad show the man some respect. It demeans him to have people groveling about the pass. He dropped it.

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    What do you expect Welker to say?  He isn't going to throw TFB under the bus.  Welker is a freaking competitive beast, sure he thinks he can catch anything... even the bad ones.  All great competitors think they can do anything.  The fact of the matter was it was a badly thrown ball, no matter what the reason TFB threw it like that.  I have watched and rewatched that play more then I care too, the defensive player was too far away to make a play on where the ball should have been thrown. 

    It was a bad pass, could it have been caught?  Possibly!  But by no means is that a reason to blame the loss.  Heck, I bet that pass is caught only 20% of the time, it would have been an amazing catch yet you continue to bring it up as a reason for losing.  Get real dude, your arguments are bogus!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    Still amazes me how many Pats fans still blame the Brady to Welker pass as the sole reason for losing the SB last season.  Especially since week in and week out we so some of the best WR in the game dropping easier passes then that.  Sure, still shots make it look bad but when you watch the play at regular speed that was a very hard ball to catch.  Apparently you guys have never played the game.  And to think, without Welker the Pats wouldn't even had a shot at winning the SB, probably wouldn't have even made it there.


    Hell, I'm a freaking Brady fan and have no problem admitting that the throw was horrible.  Wake up to reality fools!

    [/QUOTE]


    He dropped it. Live with that. You're not that much of a freaking Brady fan.

    But I wouldn't call that the worst thing that happened in the game. The 12 man penalty was unforgivably stupid and far worse. At least you can understand how Welker could have dropped that ball. It is impossible to understand how you do a 12 man penalty in the red zone during a SB.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes, he dropped a badly thrown ball.  Live with that!  No excuses, bad thrown ball, bad drop, bad 12 man penalty, bad safety throwing out of the end zone, bad coaching, bad use of Gronk, bad hands by AH81 who to this day drops way too many, bad defense, we can go on and on but you are one of the few here who time and again blames Welker.  Like I said, I'm sure you never played the game and even more sure you never played receiver.

    [/QUOTE]


    I live quite comfortably with the fact Brady threw the ball badly enough to hit Wes smack dab on both hands and he dropped it.

    “I think he was a little worried about the safety, so he threw it wider or whatever,’’ Welker said. “But, I mean, it was right there. It hits me right in the hands. It’s one I’ll have to live with.’’ WW

    E'gad show the man some respect. It demeans him to have people groveling about the pass. He dropped it.

    [/QUOTE]


    What do you expect Welker to say?  He isn't going to throw TFB under the bus.  Welker is a freaking competitive beast, sure he thinks he can catch anything... even the bad ones.  All great competitors think they can do anything.  The fact of the matter was it was a badly thrown ball, no matter what the reason TFB threw it like that.  I have watched and rewatched that play more then I care too, the defensive player was too far away to make a play on where the ball should have been thrown. 

    It was a bad pass, could it have been caught?  Possibly!  But by no means is that a reason to blame the loss.  Heck, I bet that pass is caught only 20% of the time, it would have been an amazing catch yet you continue to bring it up as a reason for losing.  Get real dude, your arguments are bogus!

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    Oh just stop! Wes could have easily said it would have been a tough catch but he should have had it, and would not have been throwing Brady under the bus. He didn't. He said he blew it, period. Brady has never said the pass was bad because he, Wes me and millions of other people know he dropped it when he should have caught it!

    I've seen literally a thousand balls as tough as that caught. HS kids make that catch!

    I find it hilarious how people quote a player or coach saying something, but when it doesn't fit their notion - "they didn't really mean that". But if it fits, it's pure truth. There are a number of coded ways Wes could have replied that would have implied that it was a tough catch.

    It hit him square in both hands and HE DROPPED it. And he admits it.

    My fervent hope is that we get in this next SB and he makes a spectacular catch to win the damned thing. Because, whether you like it or not, it will be a mark on his career forever if what I'm hoping for doesn't happen.

    Stop kidding yourself. Anybody who has been watching this game for more than 2 years should know he should have had that ball.

    Google "wes welker drop" and see what you find.

     
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    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    I've seen literally a thousand balls as tough as that caught. HS kids make that catch!

    SURE YOU HAVE!!  What a joke that comment is!

     

    Stop kidding yourself. Anybody who has been watching this game for more than 2 years should know he should have had that ball.

    That's your problem you only have watched the game.  I'm pretty sure you would have a different take had you played the position or even the game.

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    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    I've seen literally a thousand balls as tough as that caught. HS kids make that catch!

    SURE YOU HAVE!!  What a joke that comment is!

     

    Stop kidding yourself. Anybody who has been watching this game for more than 2 years should know he should have had that ball.

    That's your problem you only have watched the game.  I'm pretty sure you would have a different take had you played the position or even the game.

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    Dude are you now Texas Pat. I played football and I was awful at it and I would have definately dropped it. Welker on the other hand is a great player and should have caught it. Even if he catches it the win was far from assured though. They needed to score points or get more first downs. I don't feel Wes lost the game. He just made it harder to win at that point, a lot harder and he knows it and thats why he blames himself. I still have confidence in the guy and it seems that at times he's the only one Brady has confidence in (especially when Gronk was hurt). Great players make mistakes, it's part of football. I wish Welker could have redeemed himself on the final drive but it didn't happen and unless he wins the super bowl that play will probably eat him up forever. Jackie Smith was a heck of a reciever also but he is primarily remembered for the drop in the super bowl, lets just hope Welker is remembered for his super bowl MVPs and nothing else.

     
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    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    Compared to his regular seasons, Brady has not played as well in the post season...Comparatively

    Posting stats about QB rating does not tell the whole story. A lot of people thought this Pats team would blow the Giants out of the water, however, they only scored 17.

    However, it wasn't just Brady. Frickin' Randy Moss disappeared for the entire playoffs that year. Record breaking WR becomes a non factor other than that 1 TD in the Super Bowl.

    Offensive line was also a huge let down. Who offense was a let down and their failure to adjust is what cost them. If you told me before the game that we would have held the Giants to just 17 points, I would have guessed the score was 38-17.

    As for 46, Gronk loss was huge. However, that safety was huge. Not only did it give the Giants 2 points, it gave them an extra possession while costing us one. Considering the defense could not force a single 3 and out, that ended up being pretty big. Also happened in the beginning of the game, which set a bad tone.

    Brady played good enough to win both Super Bowls, but most of us don't expect good from Brady, we expect great. Might be unfair expectations, but that's what happens when you've accomplished what he's accomplished in the league

     
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    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to nyjoseph's comment:
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    In response to shenanigan's comment:
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    In response to nyjoseph's comment:
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    In response to ccsjl's comment:
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    SB 42 was the last playoff game, other than the Denver divisional win last year that Brady was the better QB. He was the worse of the 2 QBs in both last years AFC Champ and SB

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    It's not telling the whole story truthfully.  2009 for example in the loss to BALT they had to adapt to life without WW in 1 week.

    So Flacco goes 4 for 10 with 34 yards, 0 TDs and 1 INT.  It's a toss-up who was worse at QB, but the game was not lost at QB.  The Pats simply could not stop the run all day and could not force Flacco to throw.

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    No Hernandez, No Gronk, No Spikes, McCourty, Hightower, Jones and no Welker in the playoffs.  How did that team even make it to the playoffs?  A rookie UDFA named Edelman was their top receiver.  

    The fact that Brady managed t carry that bunch to the playoffs is pretty amazing.

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    The sentence I highlighted is why Brady is already the equal of Montana IMO.  People always say Montana won all 4 SBs he played in.  True.  But he also failed to make the SB with superior talent and never brought an obviously flawed team to the SB.

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    Montana played against a loaded NFC stronger than Brady's AFC-much-jints and skins won 5 sb's in his era and there was the 85 bears too...also he was flawless 11td 0 int in his 4 wins

    brady all time great-not montana

     

     
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    Re: What Brady really did in 42&46.

    In response to coolade2's comment:
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    The whole team let chance to win slip away, bit by bit in both games.  But if you look at points scored, offense was was more below its potential than defense.  In other words defense played more adequately than offense.   offense did not perform to expectation, while defense was typically "not great" as it had shown all year.

    This is why offense (O'Brien and mcd) should be blamed in both cases, even though defense lost it in the end with help from refs (and jints).

    [/QUOTE]

    give it up coolio

     

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