Who do you think should stay and who should go?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    Here is a list of players that aren't the regular JAGs we pulled in at the last moment. Some are FA's, some underperformed their contracts, some have huge cap hits next year. Who would you resign, extend/restructure, or just plain show the door:

    FA's - 

    • RB LeGarrette Blount
    • DE Andre Carter
    • WR Austin Collie
    • WR Julian Edelman
    • LB Dane Fletcher
    • TE Michael Hoomanawanui
    • TE Matthew Mulligan
    • LB Brandon Spikes
    • T Will Svitek
    • CB Aqib Talib
    • C Ryan Wendell

    Contracts:

    • Danny Amendola - $4.8mil cap hit - $6.8mil cap hit if cut
    • Vince Wilfork - $11.6mil cap hit - $7.5mil savings if cut
    • Kyle Arrington - $3.6mil cap hit - $6.7mil cap hit if cut
    • Logan Mankins - $10.5mil cap hit - $2mil savings if cut
    • Sebastian Vollmer - $3.75mil cap hit - $2.7mil cap hit if cut
    • Ghost - $3.8mil cap hit - $2.5mil cap savings if cut
    • Steve Gregory - $3.5mil cap hit - $2.2mil saving if cut
    • Sopo - $3.5mil cap hit - $2mil savings if cut
    • Tommy Kelley - $2.6mil cap hit - $1.7mli saving if cut
    • A. Wilson - $1.8mil cap hit - $670k savings if cut
    • T. Wilson - $1.15mil cap hit - $1.2k cap hit if cut

    Personally for me my list is:

    Resign:

    Edelman - I'm not sure if they can resign him. If it's another Amendola deal it's not worth the risk given his past injury history. I'd like to resign him if possible but might not be able to afford to do so

    Blount - Same as Edelman not sure if he priced himself out of town. He's a boom or bust player and is most certainly not the next Dillon but he's a good inside the T runner and compliments Ridley depending on opponent.

    Hooman - He's not a starting caliber TE but he's a good #3. They should draft one this year and drafting one early with Gronk and Hooman is a good TE core. 

    Wendell - We have no depth at the OL and he did a decent job. He should also be cheap and there is no immediate drop in solution. We have too many holes to spend really early on a C in the draft so this might be the best solution.

    Those to restructure/extend if possible:

    Wilfork - Depending on how his recovery is going it's worth extending him. By extending you can reduce that cap hit from $11.5mil up to a possible $5.5mil. We'll need all that cap space this offseason

    Mankins - Another massive cap hit that if you can extend by a couple of years and greatly reduce the pain with the cap

    Tommy Kelly - I'd try a restructure first. If Wilfork isn't ready to go we will need another body on the line. As with all UDFA's teams eventually figured out Siliga, Vellano, Chris Jones. No matter how good a coach is at getting the most out of guys there is a reason they went UDFA and in Siliga's case 4 teams. You can only get so much water out of rocks so you need talent upfront

    Ghost - worth a extension and to lower that cap hit in half

    Players to cut:

    Gregory - obvious one to save a good amount of space

    A. Wilson - The next Rodney and the solution to the SS problem.............. yeah not so much

    T. Wilson - is it safe to cal him a bust yet? $95k isn't worth the spot he takes up

    Sopo - another obvious one to save $2mil. Useless waste of a draft pick and cap space

    Players who imo can't be cut, signed, or restructured because of cap issues:

    Arrington - a 4th CB being paid as a #1/2 CB....... another great move from this past offseason

    Amendola - Dubbed Mr Clutch before even catching a ball in NE he was the bigger, stronger, fast, and younger version of Welker. Many said he'd make us forget about Welker. Well at least 2 parts were right. He is younger and he did make us forget about Welker, of course when your only stat in the big game is 1 drop and everything else is zero's it's hard to think anyone else could be that bad and so unclutch so naturally you forget about anyone else and just stare at him. He wasn't worth $3.5mil this season and if he does the same next season he most certainly won't be worth the $4.8mil but we can't afford to cap hit. Not to mention he's better than a JAG of the street for min wage we'd have to sign to replace him

    Collie - People fall way to quick in love with players around here after a game or two. Collie is one hit away from forgetting his own name and I saw people wanting to sign him to multiple years? If he couldn't stay on the team this year and was released multiple times he's not worth spending money on

    Talib - 2 years in a row he was injured in the AFCCG. Call it a fluke or not but the guy is always injured. He isn't worth speding money on. What good is it paying him $5mil a year for half a years worth of #1 CB performance only to get injured in the postseason?

    Total estimateed savings from my suggestions ~$14mil

    estimateed after signings I sugessted ~$9mil

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    The Amendola experiment has already haunted the team. Edelman should be kept at all costs, which sucks because there's no money to keep him, so in fact, the Pats will be even more depleted next season at WR. It's a terrible situation unless they figure out how to cut other spots. WR is the No. 1 priority...has to be. That and a guy who can actually pass rush, which seems to be a running theme of Pats weakness year after year. No Pass Rush, No WRs....When they had both, they won.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    Good run down - except please don't ever say "good TE core" and "Gronk" in the same sentence.  That guy should not be involved in any discussions of the future.  If he ever plays a meaningful down again, it will be a really pleasant surprise.  I don't expect that guy to ever be good again.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

     

    • RB LeGarrette Blount (if its not 2 years 3million or less then let em walk)
    • DE Andre Carter (um no, emergency only)
    • WR Austin Collie (3years 3.5 mil no gtd. $)
    • WR Julian Edelman (yes somehow way find a way)
    • LB Dane Fletcher (i guess)
    • TE Michael Hoomanawanui (yes)
    • TE Matthew  (nah)
    • LB Brandon  (nah)
    • T Will Svitek (yes)
    • CB Aqib Talib (only if its 1-2 years only 5-6 a year almost no gtd.)
    • C Ryan  Wendell (no)

     

     

     

    • Vince Wilfork - $11.6mil cap hit - $7.5mil savings if cut
    • Steve Gregory - $3.5mil cap hit - $2.2mil saving if cut
    • Sopo - $3.5mil cap hit - $2mil savings if cut
    • A. Wilson - $1.8mil cap hit - $670k savings if cut

    Cut or restructure VW the other 3 I dont wanna see on the practice field in August

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good run down - except please don't ever say "good TE core" and "Gronk" in the same sentence.  That guy should not be involved in any discussions of the future.  If he ever plays a meaningful down again, it will be a really pleasant surprise.  I don't expect that guy to ever be good again.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I look at it as, if you have a good running game and 3 good WRs you only really need 1 top end TE. If you draft one early anything Gronk gives is icing. So that's what I mean by good TE core. Not great but good with the right TE pick

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here is a list of players that aren't the regular JAGs we pulled in at the last moment. Some are FA's, some underperformed their contracts, some have huge cap hits next year. Who would you resign, extend/restructure, or just plain show the door:

    FA's - 

    • RB LeGarrette Blount
    • DE Andre Carter
    • WR Austin Collie
    • WR Julian Edelman
    • LB Dane Fletcher
    • TE Michael Hoomanawanui
    • TE Matthew Mulligan
    • LB Brandon Spikes
    • T Will Svitek
    • CB Aqib Talib
    • C Ryan Wendell

    Contracts:

    • Danny Amendola - $4.8mil cap hit - $6.8mil cap hit if cut
    • Vince Wilfork - $11.6mil cap hit - $7.5mil savings if cut
    • Kyle Arrington - $3.6mil cap hit - $6.7mil cap hit if cut
    • Logan Mankins - $10.5mil cap hit - $2mil savings if cut
    • Sebastian Vollmer - $3.75mil cap hit - $2.7mil cap hit if cut
    • Ghost - $3.8mil cap hit - $2.5mil cap savings if cut
    • Steve Gregory - $3.5mil cap hit - $2.2mil saving if cut
    • Sopo - $3.5mil cap hit - $2mil savings if cut
    • Tommy Kelley - $2.6mil cap hit - $1.7mli saving if cut
    • A. Wilson - $1.8mil cap hit - $670k savings if cut
    • T. Wilson - $1.15mil cap hit - $1.2k cap hit if cut

    Personally for me my list is:

    Resign:

    Edelman - I'm not sure if they can resign him. If it's another Amendola deal it's not worth the risk given his past injury history. I'd like to resign him if possible but might not be able to afford to do so AGREE

    Blount - Same as Edelman not sure if he priced himself out of town. He's a boom or bust player and is most certainly not the next Dillon but he's a good inside the T runner and compliments Ridley depending on opponent. AGREE

    Hooman - He's not a starting caliber TE but he's a good #3. They should draft one this year and drafting one early with Gronk and Hooman is a good TE core. AGREE

    Wendell - We have no depth at the OL and he did a decent job. He should also be cheap and there is no immediate drop in solution. We have too many holes to spend really early on a C in the draft so this might be the best solution. NO. CANT AGREE. WE NEED TO GET DOMINANT ON O AND D LINE. THAT MEANS C, RG, DT AND EVEN DE BECOME PRIORITIES. SIGN HIM BUT ONLY BACK UP MONEY.

    Those to restructure/extend if possible:

    Wilfork - Depending on how his recovery is going it's worth extending him. By extending you can reduce that cap hit from $11.5mil up to a possible $5.5mil. We'll need all that cap space this offseason AGREE

    Mankins - Another massive cap hit that if you can extend by a couple of years and greatly reduce the pain with the cap AGREE BUT WANT HIM ON THE TEAM ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.. HE IS CORNERSTONE OF THIS O LINE ... 

    Tommy Kelly - I'd try a restructure first. If Wilfork isn't ready to go we will need another body on the line. As with all UDFA's teams eventually figured out Siliga, Vellano, Chris Jones. No matter how good a coach is at getting the most out of guys there is a reason they went UDFA and in Siliga's case 4 teams. You can only get so much water out of rocks so you need talent upfront AGREE BUT EXPECTING TO KEEP HIM

    Ghost - worth a extension and to lower that cap hit in half AGREE

    Players to cut:

    Gregory - obvious one to save a good amount of space  NOT SURE ABOUT THIS ONE. AGREE HE IS NOT A REAL STRENGTH BUT IF HE IS BEST OPTION AVAILABLE YOU KEEP

    A. Wilson - The next Rodney and the solution to the SS problem.............. yeah not so much AGREE BUT NOT A STRONG OPINION.... GUYS LIKE HIM CAN COME TO CAMP AND EITHER EARN A PLACE OR BE CUT

    T. Wilson - is it safe to cal him a bust yet? $95k isn't worth the spot he takes up AGREE BUT NOT A STRONG OPINION.. GUYS LIKE HIM CAN COME TO CAMP AND EITHER EARN A PLACE OR BE CUT

    Sopo - another obvious one to save $2mil. Useless waste of a draft pick and cap space

    Players who imo can't be cut, signed, or restructured because of cap issues:

    Arrington - a 4th CB being paid as a #1/2 CB....... another great move from this past offseason AGREE

    Amendola - Dubbed Mr Clutch before even catching a ball in NE he was the bigger, stronger, fast, and younger version of Welker. Many said he'd make us forget about Welker. Well at least 2 parts were right. He is younger and he did make us forget about Welker, of course when your only stat in the big game is 1 drop and everything else is zero's it's hard to think anyone else could be that bad and so unclutch so naturally you forget about anyone else and just stare at him. He wasn't worth $3.5mil this season and if he does the same next season he most certainly won't be worth the $4.8mil but we can't afford to cap hit. Not to mention he's better than a JAG of the street for min wage we'd have to sign to replace him  I THINK YOU ARE TOO HARSH ON HIM ALONG WITH MANY HERE.... PLAYING INJURED ALL YEAR...

    Collie - People fall way to quick in love with players around here after a game or two. Collie is one hit away from forgetting his own name and I saw people wanting to sign him to multiple years? If he couldn't stay on the team this year and was released multiple times he's not worth spending money on AGREE. HE WAS STOP GAP

    Talib - 2 years in a row he was injured in the AFCCG. Call it a fluke or not but the guy is always injured. He isn't worth speding money on. What good is it paying him $5mil a year for half a years worth of #1 CB performance only to get injured in the postseason? WHY DO SO MANY HAVE SUCH A QUICK PROBLEM WITH INJURIES. THIS IS THE NFL..

    Total estimateed savings from my suggestions ~$14mil

    estimateed after signings I sugessted ~$9mil

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree with some things, not others.... some issues are fans equating injuries with bad player. Often not true.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bingobilly. Show bingobilly's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good run down - except please don't ever say "good TE core" and "Gronk" in the same sentence.  That guy should not be involved in any discussions of the future.  If he ever plays a meaningful down again, it will be a really pleasant surprise.  I don't expect that guy to ever be good again.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Amen to that...  You took the words right out of my mouth...  Weigh the thought that I blame the Patriots organization for the Gronk fiasco.  It would appear they sat by idle while the kid destoryed himself in every way possible and in particular never being taught how to play football today for tomorrow...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking1. Show harleyroadking1's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    Rusty,Leon, PPJ,42&46,underdog, all should go....everyone else can stay

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    In response to portfolio1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Wendell - We have no depth at the OL and he did a decent job. He should also be cheap and there is no immediate drop in solution. We have too many holes to spend really early on a C in the draft so this might be the best solution. NO. CANT AGREE. WE NEED TO GET DOMINANT ON O AND D LINE. THAT MEANS C, RG, DT AND EVEN DE BECOME PRIORITIES. SIGN HIM BUT ONLY BACK UP MONEY.

    I just don't see anyone we can stick in tomorrow who will be immediately better without spending a high draft pick or big FA money and is just not where I'd devote large resources to

    Gregory - obvious one to save a good amount of space  NOT SURE ABOUT THIS ONE. AGREE HE IS NOT A REAL STRENGTH BUT IF HE IS BEST OPTION AVAILABLE YOU KEEP

    it's sad to hear you say that and while true I think there are better options for what he costs

    Amendola - Dubbed Mr Clutch before even catching a ball in NE he was the bigger, stronger, fast, and younger version of Welker. Many said he'd make us forget about Welker. Well at least 2 parts were right. He is younger and he did make us forget about Welker, of course when your only stat in the big game is 1 drop and everything else is zero's it's hard to think anyone else could be that bad and so unclutch so naturally you forget about anyone else and just stare at him. He wasn't worth $3.5mil this season and if he does the same next season he most certainly won't be worth the $4.8mil but we can't afford to cap hit. Not to mention he's better than a JAG of the street for min wage we'd have to sign to replace him  I THINK YOU ARE TOO HARSH ON HIM ALONG WITH MANY HERE.... PLAYING INJURED ALL YEAR...

    you notice the played injured all year part you mentioned? Well that was his red flag coming in! That's what many warned about. When you know he's injury prone and he gets injured what does that say? For what he was paid his stats don't live up to it and you can't use the excuse well he was hurt because you knew he most likely was going to be before signing him. 

    Talib - 2 years in a row he was injured in the AFCCG. Call it a fluke or not but the guy is always injured. He isn't worth speding money on. What good is it paying him $5mil a year for half a years worth of #1 CB performance only to get injured in the postseason? WHY DO SO MANY HAVE SUCH A QUICK PROBLEM WITH INJURIES. THIS IS THE NFL..

    It's not injures is if the person is always injured. Why are you going to pay a ton of money to someone who can't be there when you need him to be? It's simple cost vs production and if you are oft injured you production goes down. What was the biggest problem this year with the Pats, injures? So why are you going to sign a long term deal for a player who is always injured and can't give you anything in the biggest games of the year?

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree with some things, not others.... some issues are fans equating injuries with bad player. Often not true.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it's more fans seeing if you pay a player 5mil for 8 games worth of production you might as well pay a better player 7mil for 16 games of production. Oft injured players doesn't make them bad it makes them unreliable and you can't have too many unreliable players on your team. Injures happen but if half your starters are known to have major injury issues you run into the same problem every year, half the team being injured and unable to perform.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Keepers (if possible)

    FA's - 

    • WR Austin Collie (at vet min only)
    • WR Julian Edelman
    • LB Dane Fletcher 
    • TE Matthew Mulligan (min salary)
    • T Will Svitek (min salary)

    Contracts - 

    • Danny Amendola (like it or not, he's here next year) 
    • Vince Wilfork - (only if he accepts vet min plus incentives, otherwise he's gone - no way do you extend a 30-something nose guard off an Achilles, I don't care who he is. Maybe that's harsh, but that's life. he's made a lot of money, I don't feel sorry for him.)
    • Kyle Arrington (see Amendola, can't be cut until 2015)
    • Logan Mankins -(savings is not enough, also not someone to extend, too old, let him play out his deal)
    • Sebastian Vollmer - (young, cheap and solid, unless there's some complication with his leg, why is he on this list?)
    • Ghost - (definite restructure candidate)
    • Tommy Kelley (only if knee checks out, otherwise, bye)
    • A. Wilson (he'll be in camp, unless he retires - whether he makes the team is another matter)
    • T. Wilson (your numbers are different than mine - $750K in dead money if he's cut is what I have - either way, same deal as AWilson)

    My comments:

    Blount is what you saw yesterday, he's the same guy he was playing for Schiano. You want a parallel, Brandon Jacobs - big tease, not worth a contract - bye.

    Hooman is a JAG, vet minimum fine, anything more, bye.

    Same thing with Wendell, but I agree based on position scarcity he might be someone to re-sign..

    Mankins is fine, but I don't want to commit guaranteed money to him. Let him play out his deal, bite the bullet and see what level he's at then. Always walk from a guy a year early rather than a year late.

    Why cut the Wilsons when the savings is paltry? Cut them in camp if they can't win a job, fine, but one of them will likely be around.

    Collie is a FA, he shouldn't be on your "can't cut" list. I agree no way to sign him for anything other than vet min one year.

    I let Talib walk.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    They can resign Edelman and Collie, Amendola is here to stay and you HAVE to cut Wilfork and resign him for cheap.

     

    Extending him after that injury is stupid! Let him prove he still has it before you bury yourself in debt for a 32 year old DT with a bad leg.

     

    Rogers-Cromatie is a guy I would be looking at if Denver can't make him happy. Just as good as Talib, except he's not Mr. Glass.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    Of your FA's, I let walk or try not to resign...

    blount, carter, collie, mulligan, spikes, talib, fletcher

    resign....

    edelman, hooman, svitek, Wendell, 

    we are upside down next year on most of these contracts you list.

    at the very least cut SoPo and Gregory. restructure amendola, Arrington, mankins.

    wilfork and kelly are the big potential ??? Both are older, and personally, I would try to trade them or let them walk and grab 2 dt's, 1 FA, 1 draft that are interior pass rusher and exterior pass rushers. I want to get quicker on the line and on defense overall. 

    is wilfork worth anything given his contract and injury? Lets send him to houston with Romeo and bill for a pick or player...Andre Johnson? 

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Of your FA's, I let walk or try not to resign...

    blount, carter, collie, mulligan, spikes, talib, fletcher

    resign....

    edelman, hooman, svitek, Wendell, 

    we are upside down next year on most of these contracts you list.

    at the very least cut SoPo and Gregory. restructure amendola, Arrington, mankins.

    wilfork and kelly are the big potential ??? Both are older, and personally, I would try to trade them or let them walk and grab 2 dt's, 1 FA, 1 draft that are interior pass rusher and exterior pass rushers. I want to get quicker on the line and on defense overall. 

    is wilfork worth anything given his contract and injury? Lets send him to houston with Romeo and bill for a pick or player...Andre Johnson? 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Amendola and Arrington have no reason to restructure. Why would they? Players are there to make money, not to do teams favors. 

    Wilfork is worth nothing on the market. His base is way to high for anyone to take for a single year. You won't get anything for him.

    If they cut him who do you have as a DT? You have no starting quality DTs right now other than Wilfork and Kelly. Without an interior DT core to colapse the pocket Jones and Nink will never get pressure because you single up the DT's and pretty much chip and dbl team off Jones or Nink. We've seen the difference with and without Kelly and Wilfork, just can't give up both and start from scratch. We'd be back into rebuild mode before the next set of DTs get up to speed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They can resign Edelman and Collie, Amendola is here to stay and you HAVE to cut Wilfork and resign him for cheap.

    Why would he sign for cheap? I will guarantee someone out there will give him a multi year deal in the 3-4/yr range. No incentive at all for him to resign cheap for the Pats if he can get a decent contract elsewhere. It's a risk, but the Pats are in a hole right now and don't have any quality DT's. Taking the risk of losing Wilfork is essentially giving up on the D and going back into a rebuild

    Extending him after that injury is stupid! Let him prove he still has it before you bury yourself in debt for a 32 year old DT with a bad leg.

     I agree but what choice do they have? Without a good DT in the middle this D is horrible. We could draft one but they might take a couple years to develop. The Pats dug themselves into a deep corner by passing on DT's for years in the draft. If they had grabbed a quality DT previously instead of UDFA's and retreads all these years you could let Wilfork go without much issue but not right now

    Rogers-Cromatie is a guy I would be looking at if Denver can't make him happy. Just as good as Talib, except he's not Mr. Glass.

    I agree someone to keep an eye on and someone I wanted to bring in last offseason as another solid vet CB since Talib was made of glass and he was cheap.

    [/QUOTE]


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Wilfork is worth nothing on the market. His base is way to high for anyone to take for a single year. You won't get anything for him.

    If they cut him who do you have as a DT? You have no starting quality DTs right now other than Wilfork and Kelly. Without an interior DT core to colapse the pocket Jones and Nink will never get pressure because you single up the DT's and pretty much chip and dbl team off Jones or Nink. We've seen the difference with and without Kelly and Wilfork, just can't give up both and start from scratch. We'd be back into rebuild mode before the next set of DTs get up to speed.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's why there's a draft. To me, there's just no way you extend an old nose guard with a bad wheel and guarantee him $10 mil plus. If you do that, it's purely sentimental, not based on what makes business sense.  I don't see how you can bank on him at this point. The only thing that makes sense is to cut him and resign him at vet minimum. Otherwise, draft (or sign) his replacement. There will be guys available that bring better value.

    Kelly is different because the dollars are a lot less. Keep him if he can go, cut him if he can't. 

    Maybe they get something from Armstead this year?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    The restructuring of contracts needs to come first. We are not in the best of CAP positions. The AH dead money is painful.

    Wilfork

    Mankins

    Kelly

    Mayo

    Are a few that will be asked...ask and getting are 2 different things but we shall see.

    If I had any hair left to rip out I would over the Arrington money.

    Amendola will be better next year....if he stays healthy...I know....

    Endelman is a good as gone.

    Talib....could very well be the D version of Amendola. 6-7 million per and you almost feel he won't make the 16 game schedule. Someone makes it easy for us and gives him silly money and he leaves.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    Anyone here (including you PatsENG) ever want the Pats to run the ball down a teams throat? Anyone here ever want Brady to get better protection? Anyone here ever want the WRs to have time to develop routes? Anyone here want to keep Brady around longer? Well that means getting a C and upgrading RG. Teams are not fantasy football. You build em from the front back. The Pats have to spend money in FA and draft picks to complete the O line. 

     

    Same can be said for the D. You build it from the line back. You want a Seattle or SF type D that can dominate? Then put more into completing the D line. We have three guys coming back there at DT. But if we can get EITHER a stud DT/NT or DE then get him. Same for C. I do not care if C is not a sexy position. It is important. Go out and get a center and upgrade RG.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here is a list of players that aren't the regular JAGs we pulled in at the last moment. Some are FA's, some underperformed their contracts, some have huge cap hits next year. Who would you resign, extend/restructure, or just plain show the door:

    FA's - 

    • RB LeGarrette Blount
    • DE Andre Carter
    • WR Austin Collie
    • WR Julian Edelman
    • LB Dane Fletcher
    • TE Michael Hoomanawanui
    • TE Matthew Mulligan
    • LB Brandon Spikes
    • T Will Svitek
    • CB Aqib Talib
    • C Ryan Wendell

    Contracts:

    • Danny Amendola - $4.8mil cap hit - $6.8mil cap hit if cut
    • Vince Wilfork - $11.6mil cap hit - $7.5mil savings if cut
    • Kyle Arrington - $3.6mil cap hit - $6.7mil cap hit if cut
    • Logan Mankins - $10.5mil cap hit - $2mil savings if cut
    • Sebastian Vollmer - $3.75mil cap hit - $2.7mil cap hit if cut
    • Ghost - $3.8mil cap hit - $2.5mil cap savings if cut
    • Steve Gregory - $3.5mil cap hit - $2.2mil saving if cut
    • Sopo - $3.5mil cap hit - $2mil savings if cut
    • Tommy Kelley - $2.6mil cap hit - $1.7mli saving if cut
    • A. Wilson - $1.8mil cap hit - $670k savings if cut
    • T. Wilson - $1.15mil cap hit - $1.2k cap hit if cut

    Personally for me my list is:

    Resign:

    Edelman - I'm not sure if they can resign him. If it's another Amendola deal it's not worth the risk given his past injury history. I'd like to resign him if possible but might not be able to afford to do so

    Blount - Same as Edelman not sure if he priced himself out of town. He's a boom or bust player and is most certainly not the next Dillon but he's a good inside the T runner and compliments Ridley depending on opponent.

    Hooman - He's not a starting caliber TE but he's a good #3. They should draft one this year and drafting one early with Gronk and Hooman is a good TE core. 

    Wendell - We have no depth at the OL and he did a decent job. He should also be cheap and there is no immediate drop in solution. We have too many holes to spend really early on a C in the draft so this might be the best solution.

    Those to restructure/extend if possible:

    Wilfork - Depending on how his recovery is going it's worth extending him. By extending you can reduce that cap hit from $11.5mil up to a possible $5.5mil. We'll need all that cap space this offseason

    Mankins - Another massive cap hit that if you can extend by a couple of years and greatly reduce the pain with the cap

    Tommy Kelly - I'd try a restructure first. If Wilfork isn't ready to go we will need another body on the line. As with all UDFA's teams eventually figured out Siliga, Vellano, Chris Jones. No matter how good a coach is at getting the most out of guys there is a reason they went UDFA and in Siliga's case 4 teams. You can only get so much water out of rocks so you need talent upfront

    Ghost - worth a extension and to lower that cap hit in half

    Players to cut:

    Gregory - obvious one to save a good amount of space

    A. Wilson - The next Rodney and the solution to the SS problem.............. yeah not so much

    T. Wilson - is it safe to cal him a bust yet? $95k isn't worth the spot he takes up

    Sopo - another obvious one to save $2mil. Useless waste of a draft pick and cap space

    Players who imo can't be cut, signed, or restructured because of cap issues:

    Arrington - a 4th CB being paid as a #1/2 CB....... another great move from this past offseason

    Amendola - Dubbed Mr Clutch before even catching a ball in NE he was the bigger, stronger, fast, and younger version of Welker. Many said he'd make us forget about Welker. Well at least 2 parts were right. He is younger and he did make us forget about Welker, of course when your only stat in the big game is 1 drop and everything else is zero's it's hard to think anyone else could be that bad and so unclutch so naturally you forget about anyone else and just stare at him. He wasn't worth $3.5mil this season and if he does the same next season he most certainly won't be worth the $4.8mil but we can't afford to cap hit. Not to mention he's better than a JAG of the street for min wage we'd have to sign to replace him

    Collie - People fall way to quick in love with players around here after a game or two. Collie is one hit away from forgetting his own name and I saw people wanting to sign him to multiple years? If he couldn't stay on the team this year and was released multiple times he's not worth spending money on

    Talib - 2 years in a row he was injured in the AFCCG. Call it a fluke or not but the guy is always injured. He isn't worth speding money on. What good is it paying him $5mil a year for half a years worth of #1 CB performance only to get injured in the postseason?

    Total estimateed savings from my suggestions ~$14mil

    estimateed after signings I sugessted ~$9mil

    [/QUOTE]


    Keep Collie, Edelamn, Wilfork, Vollmer, Mankins and Ghost

     

    Tade Amendola

     

    Let the other FAs go, cut the rest

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from getdrunkstupit. Show getdrunkstupit's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    LT to RT minus logan mankins and marcus cannon

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from getdrunkstupit. Show getdrunkstupit's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good run down - except please don't ever say "good TE core" and "Gronk" in the same sentence.  That guy should not be involved in any discussions of the future.  If he ever plays a meaningful down again, it will be a really pleasant surprise.  I don't expect that guy to ever be good again.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    dumbest thing i've read here.  Did gronks hands shrink?  did he?  no amputation yet so he's still the best play maker the patriots have. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Who do you think should stay and who should go?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    That's why there's a draft. To me, there's just no way you extend an old nose guard with a bad wheel and guarantee him $10 mil plus. If you do that, it's purely sentimental, not based on what makes business sense.  I don't see how you can bank on him at this point. The only thing that makes sense is to cut him and resign him at vet minimum. Otherwise, draft (or sign) his replacement. There will be guys available that bring better value.

    Kelly is different because the dollars are a lot less. Keep him if he can go, cut him if he can't. 

    Maybe they get something from Armstead this year?

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree that's why you have a draft but I hate the notion of having to rely on a rook because they can be hit or miss and generally aren't immediate hits right from the gate. Wilfork was essentially the only known. If there was another option I'd take it but saying you don't want to bank on Wilfork because of age in injury yet you are willing to go with a completely unproven Armstead who has yet to even take a snap in the league? If Wilfork's contract can't be worked out I agree too much to spend on him. But, if you can work something out I'd rather have Wilfork than not and have to rely on a rook or the random assortment of Chris Jones, Vellano, Siliga types who last 2-4 games and then disappear and become negatives.

     

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