Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    Watching this young line develop this year, I can't help but feel Solder will be a real good one. To me the best lineman we've ever had (outside of Hannah) is Bruce Armstrong.

    I can't recall someone pass blocking like that - I know he ended his career on a down note here...Belichick gave him a little pay cut instead of releasing him...Armstrong became a lockeroom problem...they were expecting him to be a leader, etc. However I can remember this guy protecting Bledsoe without help against some of the best pass rushers in the league.

    1. Hannah

    2. Armstrong

    3. Light? Woody?   

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    Old schoolers Leon Gray, Jon Morris, Pete Brock

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Norger. Show Norger's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    Leon Gray.  John Hannah/Leon Gray were the best 1-2 punch on the O-line the Pats have ever had.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    If you go as far back as Hannah, then Leon Gray would be #2 IMO.  Armstrong was never first-team All-Pro.  Gray was 3 times.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    I would have to say it is between Gray and Mankins. I know many people here will disagree about Mankins but Gray was not as good a pass blocker as a run blocker and Mankins plays in a system that requires more agility and adjustment. Mankins is perhaps the toughest O lineman to wear the uniform. Over his career he has been strong t both run and pass blocking.

    Still, there have been several others who would compete.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    Dave Wohlabaugh..I rememeber him, Parcells drafted him in the 4th?  Syracuse right?

    Damien Woody is a guy that I think was very underrated here - I want to say he played left tackle for a game or two and had no problems (although he couldn't shotgun snap).

    Stephen Neal was a freak of an athlete - I remember watching him in camp during his rookie year - they had him playing on the defensive line and he ran better than any big guy on the field. The following year they put him at guard and he was starting against Green Bay on a rainy day...he went flying after a fumble and broke his ankle...he was the only guy that went for the ball on our team and he was moving like a linebacker.  

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    In response to portfolio1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would have to say it is between Gray and Mankins. I know many people here will disagree about Mankins but Gray was not as good a pass blocker as a run blocker and Mankins plays in a system that requires more agility and adjustment. Mankins is perhaps the toughest O lineman to wear the uniform. Over his career he has been strong t both run and pass blocking.

    Still, there have been several others who would compete.

    [/QUOTE]


    I was a little kid when Gray was playing, so I can't really comment. All I remember about the Pats during those years was Grogan running around getting himself killed. I met Grogan when I was little and his neck looked like it was three feet long - my dad told me his neck got that way from all the hits he took (it had stretched up). Lol. When I met him my dad wanted me to ask him if his neck was made out of rubber...I did...he just laughed (I don't think it was the first time he had been asked that question).

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Norger. Show Norger's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Anyone know why Houston let Gray go?

    [/QUOTE]


    If I remember right, Don Shula cut him.  Whoever  it was the biggest personnel mistake he ever made.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    ... and if you were to go the other way and list the biggest Underperformer for where they were drafted the award goes to Eugene Chung. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    Daniel Graham was the best blocking tightend if we expand the line to include tightends. the guy was a beast!

    Center: Morris

    Guard: Hannah

    Tackle: Armstrong

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Daniel Graham was the best blocking tightend if we expand the line to include tightends. the guy was a beast!

    Center: Morris

    Guard: Hannah

    Tackle: Armstrong

    [/QUOTE]


    Graham was a beast at blocking - I remember him helping Light out so many times going aganst Freeney and Abraham. Funny thing, when he came out of Colorado he could catch the ball. He made some catches there that were just so smooth and natural...Mike Holmgren said he was going to be the next Sharpe and was pissed when we grabbed him right before his pick. Then the guy gets to the NFL and dropped passes on a regular basis...weird.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Daniel Graham was the best blocking tightend if we expand the line to include tightends. the guy was a beast!

    Center: Morris

    Guard: Hannah

    Tackle: Armstrong

    [/QUOTE]

    The best blocking TE we ever had might have been Crumpler. But if not him I would say Russ Francis over Graham or anyone. He was just tremedous. Remember that on that team they just pounded teams - INCLUDING THE STEEL CURTAIN. THey ran... rarely passed. And for record yardage. 3156 yards in 1976. THat is over 225 per game! It was (is?) a league record. And that was not an aberation for that team. ANd TE was a very big part of blocking both on that team and back then in general.

    So I suppose Francis should be considered if you want to include TEs.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    [/QUOTE]

    I was a little kid when Gray was playing, so I can't really comment. All I remember about the Pats during those years was Grogan running around getting himself killed. I met Grogan when I was little and his neck looked like it was three feet long - my dad told me his neck got that way from all the hits he took (it had stretched up). Lol. When I met him my dad wanted me to ask him if his neck was made out of rubber...I did...he just laughed (I don't think it was the first time he had been asked that question).

    [/QUOTE]

    Gray and Grogan's careers overlapped, but when Gray was there they had the best o-line in football. Gray left in '78 and Grogan played until the mid-80s. Gray's leaving was the biggest injustice ever. The Sullivans really had no business owning an NFL team, good riddance to them.

    That was about the time when the Red Sox lost Fisk, Burleson and Lynn because they missed a mailing deadline. There was some lousy ownership in Boston back in the day. Don't get me started on John Y. Brown...

    I think that o-line still holds the NFL record for rushing yards (if it was broken, it was only very recently). And the backs they had were good, but not great. Guys like Don Calhoun, Andy Johnson and of course, Sam Cunningham.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from NCPatsFan1971. Show NCPatsFan1971's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to portfolio1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would have to say it is between Gray and Mankins. I know many people here will disagree about Mankins but Gray was not as good a pass blocker as a run blocker and Mankins plays in a system that requires more agility and adjustment. Mankins is perhaps the toughest O lineman to wear the uniform. Over his career he has been strong t both run and pass blocking.

    Still, there have been several others who would compete.

    [/QUOTE]


    I was a little kid when Gray was playing, so I can't really comment. All I remember about the Pats during those years was Grogan running around getting himself killed. I met Grogan when I was little and his neck looked like it was three feet long - my dad told me his neck got that way from all the hits he took (it had stretched up). Lol. When I met him my dad wanted me to ask him if his neck was made out of rubber...I did...he just laughed (I don't think it was the first time he had been asked that question).

    [/QUOTE]


    LOL  Grogan did have a long neck.  He also held a QB Rushing Touchdown Record (12) for 35 Years until Cam Newton broke it in 2011.  

     

    When I first read the Post my imediate thought was Hanna and Gray.  These guys were an outstanding Duo until they went on an unofficial strike after they found out how little Billy Sullivan was paying them compared to other players in the league at the time.  My memory is kind of foggy after that but I think Gray was traded and never heard of again.  Hanna continued to play at an outstanding level until 1985.  

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    Anyone know why Houston let Gray go?


    From wikipedia,
    "Gray was selected in the third round of the 1973 NFL Draft by the Miami Dolphins. However, due to their depth at offensive line, he never played for the team. He was cut before the start of the 1973 NFL season and claimed on waivers by the New England Patriots."

    To save money, Gray was traded to the Oilers before the start of the 1979 NFL season for first and sixth-round draft picks.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    In response to NCPatsFan1971's comment:

    LOL  Grogan did have a long neck.  He also held a QB Rushing Touchdown Record (12) for 35 Years until Cam Newton broke it in 2011. When I first read the Post my imediate thought was Hanna and Gray.  These guys were an outstanding Duo until they went on an unofficial strike after they found out how little Billy Sullivan was paying them compared to other players in the league at the time.   My memory is kind of foggy after that but I think Gray was traded and never heard of again. Hanna continued to play at an outstanding level until 1985.



    Leon Gray was 1st team all-pro in 1979 & 1980 for the Oilers. He was also a pro-bowler in 1979 & 1981. In his three years with the Oilers he helped pave the way for Earl Campbell to rush for 5007 yards.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Who is the best offensive lineman we've had besides John Hannah?

    In response to portfolio1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Daniel Graham was the best blocking tightend if we expand the line to include tightends. the guy was a beast!

    Center: Morris

    Guard: Hannah

    Tackle: Armstrong

    [/QUOTE]

    The best blocking TE we ever had might have been Crumpler. But if not him I would say Russ Francis over Graham or anyone. He was just tremedous. Remember that on that team they just pounded teams - INCLUDING THE STEEL CURTAIN. THey ran... rarely passed. And for record yardage. 3156 yards in 1976. THat is over 225 per game! It was (is?) a league record. And that was not an aberation for that team. ANd TE was a very big part of blocking both on that team and back then in general.

    So I suppose Francis should be considered if you want to include TEs.

    [/QUOTE]

    Francis was a great tightend no doubt, Don Hasselback was also a very good run blocking tightend.  I'll stick with Graham as a pure blocker both in the run game and he was also very good at chipping the ends in pass coverage too.

     

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