Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leonard15. Show Leonard15's posts

    Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    So who is to blame more for our failures the last 8 years? Our QB is no longer postseason elite, our defense is useless compared to 03 & 04 standards and our head coach is no longer the guru everyone thought he used to be.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    All of the above? and toss in WR's too.

    Coaching - poor clock management and lack of situational play calling throughout the game

    D - once Talib went down they fell apart. I understand they had short field on the turnovers in the 4th but you can't give up TD's on every trip to the red zone sometimes you have to make them kick a couple FG's

    Receivers - drop balls after drop balls and not gaining better separation

    Brady - forcing balls into coverage and inaccuracy at times as well as poor clock management at the end of the 1st half. Giving up tucking and running with the ball on a couple 3rd down plays when he saw a single defender in his path. I understand that's not what we want him to do but in the AFCCG when there were zero options open and less then 5yrds to get I'd like to see a little more fight from him like pre 07' Brady

    The only team I don't think to blame is the ST's. Honestly the punts and kicks were great and even got some good returns tossed in.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    Last 8 years?  From a business perspective, the head coach.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leonard15. Show Leonard15's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    All of the above? and toss in WR's too.

    Coaching - poor clock management and lack of situational play calling throughout the game

    D - once Talib went down they fell apart. I understand they had short field on the turnovers in the 4th but you can't give up TD's on every trip to the red zone sometimes you have to make them kick a couple FG's

    Receivers - drop balls after drop balls and not gaining better separation

    Brady - forcing balls into coverage and inaccuracy at times as well as poor clock management at the end of the 1st half. Giving up tucking and running with the ball on a couple 3rd down plays when he saw a single defender in his path. I understand that's not what we want him to do but in the AFCCG when there were zero options open and less then 5yrds to get I'd like to see a little more fight from him like pre 07' Brady

    The only team I don't think to blame is the ST's. Honestly the punts and kicks were great and even got some good returns tossed in.




    Wasn't just talking about this game but the last 8 years of failure for that matter as something has to give here as we've morphed into the Peyton Manning led Colts minus 2006! Also we are the Andy Reid/McNabb led Eagles from their era together e.g. teams that are good but not good enough to win the big one!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    Well luck is having something to do with it (or lack of). In the end we are not good enough...too much caring about value and draft mistakes...these things add up. You could say the injuries did us in, but that is bull. Every team had injuries heading into the playoffs and we had the extra week of rest. We are supposed to be built for depth.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    Head coach - he went from smashmouth to finesse football. Smashmouth beats finesse everytime...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leonard15. Show Leonard15's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

    Head coach - he went from smashmouth to finesse football. Smashmouth beats finesse everytime...




    Yes but smashmouth didn't win in 05 & 06 and thus the change was made and it worked for all but 1 game in 2007.

    When the 49ers ran the West Coast Offense with Joe Montana and later Steve Young it was more finnesse but those teams had a great defense to back up the offense and the West Coast Offense is more difficult to defend than the one our team runs and hence a system change to a West Coast offensive coordinator.


    Also the 2006 Colts were finnese offense, the 2009 Saints were finnesse offense and the 2010 Packers were slowly evolving into a finnesse offense with all those high scoring numbers!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leonard15. Show Leonard15's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    Well luck is having something to do with it (or lack of). In the end we are not good enough...too much caring about value and draft mistakes...these things add up. You could say the injuries did us in, but that is bull. Every team had injuries heading into the playoffs and we had the extra week of rest. We are supposed to be built for depth.




    Well in 2004 both our staring CB's went down wish season ending injuries in October and they still won the SB and the defense played great even with some makeshift guys being thrown into the secondary e.g. Troy Brown, Earth Wind & Fire etc.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to Leonard15's comment:

    So who is to blame more for our failures the last 8 years? Our QB is no longer postseason elite, our defense is useless compared to 03 & 04 standards and our head coach is no longer the guru everyone thought he used to be.




    Typical pink helmet thinking. All those seasons achieving what other NFL teams only dream of is failure.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leonard15. Show Leonard15's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

    Head coach - he went from smashmouth to finesse football. Smashmouth beats finesse everytime...




    Another thing is that smashmouth will not work unless the defense is elite like it was in 03 & 04 and thus without an elite defense the offense has to score early & often in order to win or risk not keeping up with the other team!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSthebest. Show PATSthebest's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    When you talk about a span of 8 years back to 2004, who picks the players to create the team and strategy is where the buck stops. Other than TB and VW the cast has changed dramtically. So you can blame the success or lack there of depending how you look at it begins with the BB.

     

    BB is 3 players (Corner, Pass Rusher, Deep Threat) and a young fresh D cord. from another Superbowl.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    2006 Dolts was a fixed game...the Troy Brown "Offensive Interference" on the play at the 2 minute warning, after Ben Watson gets a first down on the Dolt 17. TD there puts game out of reach so officials couldnt let it happen.....2004 SB had Troy Brown as cornerback, course when you had pass rushers up front, it works...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leonard15. Show Leonard15's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

    When you talk about a span of 8 years back to 2004, who picks the players to create the team and strategy is where the buck stops. Other than TB and VW the cast has changed dramtically. So you can blame the success or lack there of depending how you look at it begins with the BB.

     

    BB is 3 players (Corner, Pass Rusher, Deep Threat) and a young fresh D cord. from another Superbowl.




    So basically in other words winning another SB is just a pipe dream as none of those needs will be filled in the offseason.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

    When you talk about a span of 8 years back to 2004, who picks the players to create the team and strategy is where the buck stops. Other than TB and VW the cast has changed dramtically. So you can blame the success or lack there of depending how you look at it begins with the BB.

     

    BB is 3 players (Corner, Pass Rusher, Deep Threat) and a young fresh D cord. from another Superbowl.



    Really? Seems to me a QB who is NOT an INT machine in playoffs might help too...

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSthebest. Show PATSthebest's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to Leonard15's comment:

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

     

    When you talk about a span of 8 years back to 2004, who picks the players to create the team and strategy is where the buck stops. Other than TB and VW the cast has changed dramtically. So you can blame the success or lack there of depending how you look at it begins with the BB.

     

    BB is 3 players (Corner, Pass Rusher, Deep Threat) and a young fresh D cord. from another Superbowl.

     




    So basically in other words winning another SB is just a pipe dream as none of those needs will be filled in the offseason.

     



    Chandker Jones might be that pass rusher we'll have to see. As for the corner and WR need ti see who's a FA. Need the talent now, clocks ticking.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSthebest. Show PATSthebest's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

     

    When you talk about a span of 8 years back to 2004, who picks the players to create the team and strategy is where the buck stops. Other than TB and VW the cast has changed dramtically. So you can blame the success or lack there of depending how you look at it begins with the BB.

     

    BB is 3 players (Corner, Pass Rusher, Deep Threat) and a young fresh D cord. from another Superbowl.

     



    Really? Seems to me a QB who is NOT an INT machine in playoffs might help too...

     




    I feel pretty good about our chances with TB.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

     

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

     

    When you talk about a span of 8 years back to 2004, who picks the players to create the team and strategy is where the buck stops. Other than TB and VW the cast has changed dramtically. So you can blame the success or lack there of depending how you look at it begins with the BB.

     

    BB is 3 players (Corner, Pass Rusher, Deep Threat) and a young fresh D cord. from another Superbowl.

     



    Really? Seems to me a QB who is NOT an INT machine in playoffs might help too...

     

     




    I feel pretty good about our chances with TB.

     



    The same TB who has not had 2 good playoff games in a row in 8 years???

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    It's a mistake to think of the past eight years as a "failure."  This team has been on an excellent run almost unmatched in NFL history. As far as not winning the Super Bowl every year, first that expectation is unrealistic and second if there's something to "blame" it's mostly limits in the talent which in part are forced by a draft system designed to benefit low performing teams and to disadvantage high performing ones like the Pats.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSthebest. Show PATSthebest's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

     

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

     

    In response to PATSthebest's comment:

     

    When you talk about a span of 8 years back to 2004, who picks the players to create the team and strategy is where the buck stops. Other than TB and VW the cast has changed dramtically. So you can blame the success or lack there of depending how you look at it begins with the BB.

     

    BB is 3 players (Corner, Pass Rusher, Deep Threat) and a young fresh D cord. from another Superbowl.

     



    Really? Seems to me a QB who is NOT an INT machine in playoffs might help too...

     

     




    I feel pretty good about our chances with TB.

     

     



    The same TB who has not had 2 good playoff games in a row in 8 years???

     



    I don't see A. Rodgers becoming available anytime soon. What would you suggest? Maybe The guy is still one of the top QB's.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    Guys. Like it or not Brady is nearing the end of his career. It will be interesting to see how many 'fans' stick around after he's gone. Much like the Red Sox a good portion of Pats fans became so after the Super Bowl years. They're easy to spot because they're the ones whining the loudest when a season ends without a Lombardy trophy.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    common themes in loses

    In a column now posted on ESPNBoston.com, Mike Reiss attempts to find common threads in each of the past seven Patriots playoff losses since 2005:

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSthebest. Show PATSthebest's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    It's a mistake to think of the past eight years as a "failure."  This team has been on an excellent run almost unmatched in NFL history. As far as not winning the Super Bowl every year, first that expectation is unrealistic and second if there's something to "blame" it's mostly limits in the talent which in part are forced by a draft system designed to benefit low performing teams and to disadvantage high performing ones like the Pats.

     



    I don't look at the past 8 years as "failures". I would take this over my PATs from the 1900's. But when your up or near the top you not saisfied till you are the top. Any NFL player will tell you there is only 1 winner, the rest of us are losers.

    Or as Bruce Springsteen would say"Poor men want to be rich, rich men want to be king, and the king ain't satisfied till he rules everything".

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

     

    I posted this separately under "Harbowl ad nauseam" but a good copy & paste here I think.

    Brady is not the problem and I feel is in the top 5 list of all QBs in history.

    The problem is the coach & failure to concentrate on drafting defensive players to put pressure on opposing QBs !!!

    Most of the post commentaries are about Welker's drop and the failure of this year's leading offensive team to score in some critical situations. And this is true but I feel that the lack of a pass rush allowing the Ravens to make many 2nd or 3rd and 10 first downs was the difference. 

     

    I really wanted a 49er-Pats SB as I did last year too. I think Pats would have beaten Alex Smith last year but if not, the loss would not have hurt as much as the 2nd one in 3 years in SBs with the dredded Giants. But this year, I don't think Pats would have beaten SF.

    Some commentaries make fun of Jim Haubaugh being a little too "Rah Rah" sort of like Pete Carroll of Seattle. Brother John is a bit more reserved. Belichick is more reserved, stoic and seems unemotional.  Personally, I don't mind Jim's antics on the sidelines.

    Here's the problem with the Pats and I know I'm simplifying this. All year they would usually score 35-40 points so defense was not a major issue. If some of you are Celtic fans it is similar to a problem Boston has had for a number of years, weak in rebounding but if they shot 45-50%, rebounding was not an issue. Many posts cited Welker's dropped pass as being the deciding factor. But, I felt the lack of a pass rush was what did Pats in with no pressure on Flacco.  Again, not a big issue if you can score 40-35 points and outscore the opponent but when you have a miserable offensive game, the defense can still rescue a team. SF was down 7-0 and 14-7 to Green Bay. They were down 17-0 to Atlanta and 24-14 at half.  In those 2 games in the 2nd half only 7 points were scored by GB when SF was up by 21, 45-24, in last meaningless 2 minutes and Falcons were held scoreless. When people think of SF, other than in the last 2 weeks with Kaepernicks ability to run, what do most people think first about SF's team...DEFENSE !!! If Pats had scored 35-40 pts Welker's drop becomes a non-issue. Pats main objective should be to draft linemen who can get to the QB & good defensive backs.

    Anyway, my $02 Cents !!!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSthebest. Show PATSthebest's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

     

    I posted this separately under "Harbowl ad nauseam" but a good copy & paste here I think.

    Brady is not the problem and I feel is in the top 5 list of all QBs in history.

    The problem is the coach & failure to concentrate on drafting defensive players to put pressure on opposing QBs !!!

    Most of the post commentaries are about Welker's drop and the failure of this year's leading offensive team to score in some critical situations. And this is true but I feel that the lack of a pass rush allowing the Ravens to make many 2nd or 3rd and 10 first downs was the difference. 

     

    I really wanted a 49er-Pats SB as I did last year too. I think Pats would have beaten Alex Smith last year but if not, the loss would not have hurt as much as the 2nd one in 3 years in SBs with the dredded Giants. But this year, I don't think Pats would have beaten SF.

    Some commentaries make fun of Jim Haubaugh being a little too "Rah Rah" sort of like Pete Carroll of Seattle. Brother John is a bit more reserved. Belichick is more reserved, stoic and seems unemotional.  Personally, I don't mind Jim's antics on the sidelines.

    Here's the problem with the Pats and I know I'm simplifying this. All year they would usually score 35-40 points so defense was not a major issue. If some of you are Celtic fans it is similar to a problem Boston has had for a number of years, weak in rebounding but if they shot 45-50%, rebounding was not an issue. Many posts cited Welker's dropped pass as being the deciding factor. But, I felt the lack of a pass rush was what did Pats in with no pressure on Flacco.  Again, not a big issue if you can score 40-35 points and outscore the opponent but when you have a miserable offensive game, the defense can still rescue a team. SF was down 7-0 and 14-7 to Green Bay. They were down 17-0 to Atlanta and 24-14 at half.  In those 2 games in the 2nd half only 7 points were scored by GB when SF was up by 21, 45-24, in last meaningless 2 minutes and Falcons were held scoreless. When people think of SF, other than in the last 2 weeks with Kaepernicks ability to run, what do most people think first about SF's team...DEFENSE !!! If Pats had scored 35-40 pts Welker's drop becomes a non-issue. Pats main objective should be to draft linemen who can get to the QB & good defensive backs.

    Anyway, my $02 Cents !!!



    Thank you.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Who To Blame More QB, Defense Or Head Coach?

    In response to Leonard15's comment:

    So who is to blame more for our failures the last 8 years? Our QB is no longer postseason elite, our defense is useless compared to 03 & 04 standards and our head coach is no longer the guru everyone thought he used to be.



    Why the need to focus on focusing blame on one party. All you mentioned failed. You can;t focus on improving one and expect better results in the future.

     

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