Who Will Replace Mankins?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Clay73. Show Clay73's posts

    Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?

    I like Nick at LG if Logan is not there.  I liked the physical play I am sre he would bring to the position.  I also liked Dan Connolly with his physical play he showed last year.

    Just wondering if the Brady negotiations are putting the Mankins nego effort in the back seat until the Pats determine just how much Tom is going to cost them.  I also felt this way during the Peppers nego and once he signed with the Bears then the Wilfork deal became front and center - maybe I am wrong but I think they take the big deals one at a time.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

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    In Response to Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?:
    I like Nick at LG if Logan is not there.  I liked the physical play I am sre he would bring to the position.  I also liked Dan Connolly with his physical play he showed last year. Just wondering if the Brady negotiations are putting the Mankins nego effort in the back seat until the Pats determine just how much Tom is going to cost them.  I also felt this way during the Peppers nego and once he signed with the Bears then the Wilfork deal became front and center - maybe I am wrong but I think they take the big deals one at a time.
    Posted by Clay73


         Excellent point, Clay.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsRfineIn09. Show PatsRfineIn09's posts

    Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?

    Dan Connolly and Mark LeVoir will have to pick up the slack. Mankins forgot that no one person is bigger than the TEAM.

    F-him.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from quinzpatsfan. Show quinzpatsfan's posts

    Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?

    I'd like to think that someone of the 8 backups listed above could turn out to be a solid starter given the opportunity.  Interesting that we have so many young players at the position maybe BB thought this might be the case with Mankins and doesn't see Light resigning after his contract expires next year. The scary thing for this year is if Mankins does hold out and we get hit with some injuries early say training camp even, it could be a tough start of the season for the OL.  We do have an excellent (maybe best in NFL) OL coach.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from gmbill. Show gmbill's posts

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    In Response to Who Will Replace Mankins?:
         Assuming that Logan Mankins holds out until week 10 of the season, or is traded, who will replace him? I just scanned the list of available free agents remaining, and the cupboard is bare. So, any replacement will likely have to come from within.        Nick Kaczur will likely be moved to replace Mankins at LG, with Sebastien Vollmer replacing him at RT. That gives the Pats a starting line-up at OL of Matt Light at LT, Kaczur at LG, Dan Koppen at C, Stephen Neal at RG, and Vollmer at RT.       Their potential back-ups are as follows: 1.) OT/OG George Bussey, 6'3", 305 lbs., second year player from Louisville...who missed most of last season due to injury (5th round draft pick, 2009): http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=32640 ; 2.) OG Dan Connolly, 6'4", 313lbs., fifth year player from Southeast Missouri State (free agent pick-up): http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=32640 ; 3.) C/OG Ted Larsen, 6'2", 305lbs., rookie from North Carolina State (6th round pick in the 2010 draft): http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=32640 ; 4.) OT Mark LeVoir, 6'7", 306 lbs., four year player, acquired as a free agent, from Notre Dame: http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=33402; 5.) OG Rich Ohrnberger, 6'2", 291 lbs., second year player, 4th round pick in 2009, from Penn State: http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=33658 ; 6.) OT Thomas Welch, 6'7", 310 lbs., rookie selected in the 7th round of the 2010 draft, from Vanderbilt:  http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=34188 ; 7.) OG Ryan Wendell, 6'2", 290 lbs., two year player, acquired as a free agent, from Fresno State: http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=33170; 8.) OG/OT John Wise, 6'5", 298 lbs; free agent rookie from Illinois...where he starred as a wrestler. Pats hope that they can catch lightning in a bottle with a wrestler again, as they did with Stephen Neal: http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=34200 .      Thoughts?           
    Posted by TexasPat3


    Texas

    I look at this as, "what happens if Mankins goes down hurt in the first game". I like your recovery and agree. Mankins is pushing the envelope of what he thinks he is due. I do not fault him for that, careers can end in one hit. I do think that like Lawyer and Asante, you can find yourself with more money on another team. As long as he is cool with that he needs to push this as he sees fit. I would hold off on the yapping if I were him, history has shown that not to be a good choice with the Pats office.

    Thank for you constant strong posts
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfans. Show patsfans's posts

    Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?

    In Response to Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?:
    Overall I think losing Mankins and replacing him with Kazcur is a downgrade at LG. Replacing Kazcur with Vollmer at RT is an upgrade. So I still think we are about even with where we were last year. Let's just go get Kevin Mawae at Center and bump Koppen and we could potentially have a top unit again.
    Posted by MaritimePatsFan


    I agree that replacing Mankins with Kazcur is a downgrade, and I think one of the areas that Mankins did well was his downfield blocking, which on screens was key because they always had success running to that side of the field.  I think in pass-blocking Kazcur will be servicable, and I agree that Vollmer will be an upgrade on that side of the field since he obivously showed last season that he could play.  Many actually thought he'd potentially cause them to possibly trade Light.

    I had a discussion with a friend of mine on the phone the other day regarding Mankins and the matchup he lost against Justin Tuck in the game we try not to really talk about.   I think most of us agree that the 5-year $35 million contract wasn't exactly a slap in the face, and the point that came up was whether or not his performance in that game was the reason why he got $7-million per year instead of the $8+ he was reportedly looking for.  I thought it was an interesting point, although I'm not entirely sure that I'm in agreement with it.

    The question I have now is that if he holds out, I had read from one report (I believe it was Reiss) that if he doesn't report by a certain date, he forfeits his free agent eligibility for next year.  A different piece from Cole that I mentioned in another thread claims to the contrary, and that holding out is "the best strategy" for him to leverage the team.  He writes that Mankins "can now stay away from their teams without incurring significant fines and/or other penalties (such as losing a year toward free agency)" and that he "could get away with not playing at all and still be unrestricted free agents if a new CBA is finally negotiated sometime in 2011"  I can't see how there wouldn't have been a provision to prevent RFA's from doing this - which is why I'd love to find out which is correct.  The way I interpret it right now is that they have to report by week 6 in order to not lose their free agent eligibility.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JulesWinfield. Show JulesWinfield's posts

    Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?

    Naw, dudes.  Work Vollmers into the starting line-up.  Don't worry so much about position - just get your best five guys out there!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Clay73. Show Clay73's posts

    Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?

    In Response to Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?:
    In Response to Re: Who Will Replace Mankins? :      Excellent point, Clay.
    Posted by TexasPat3


    This Larsen kid is very interesting.  Sounds like another Steven Neal in the making.  He is a little raw but what upside and you would think that he will play guard or center at a pretty high level, fairly soon.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?

    It is very hard for me to adjust to the loss of good players. What is the difference to Kraft between 8Mil and 7Mil. Pay him the 8Mil, be done with it and don't risk destroying the already weak OL and what is left of chemistry. Penny wise = Pound foolish?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

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    In Response to Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?:
    It is very hard for me to adjust to the loss of good players. What is the difference to Kraft between 8Mil and 7Mil. Pay him the 8Mil, be done with it and don't risk destroying the already weak OL and what is left of chemistry. Penny wise = Pound foolish?
    Posted by NYC


    I agree 100%.

    We draft guys as blank slates. Regardless of where they're drafted or where they went to school, they're unknowns in the NFL. We pay them, coach them up and play them for two or three years. If we're lucky, they become productive starters and, if we're real lucky, pro-bowlers. They're in the prime of their careers and, in Mankin's case, charged with protecting the franchise.

    Now, we're playing hard ball with a guy like him over chump change? (When your payroll is upwards of $130 mill/year, $1 mill is chump change).

    I'm no accountant but this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

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    In Response to Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?:
    In Response to Re: Who Will Replace Mankins? : I agree 100%. We draft guys as blank slates. Regardless of where they're drafted or where they went to school, they're unknowns in the NFL. We pay them, coach them up and play them for two or three years. If we're lucky, they become productive starters and, if we're real lucky, pro-bowlers. They're in the prime of their careers and, in Mankin's case, charged with protecting the franchise. Now, we're playing hard ball with a guy like him over chump change? (When your payroll is upwards of $130 mill/year, $1 mill is chump change). I'm no accountant but this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
    Posted by unclealfie


    While I agree that Mankins is a key and valuable player for the Pats. I completely disagree with the notion of "1 mill is chump change" This has been the line of reasoning for bad teams and more importantly bad front office's/owners. Examples being Washington Redskins, Oak Raiders, Detroit Lions. This is a new era and these teams failed to understand the system of placing a value on your players and not breaking it for any one individual( Lawyer, Ty, Deon, Asante, Willie,) and soon to be ex Patriot Mankins will be no different. Only the Patriots know what Mankins is worth and if he does not agree then simply paying him more money will not be the answer. To be honest I would be nervous if The Patriots changed there philosophy now as it would stand to challenge the integrity of the organization.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?

    Another interesting thought is..How many of the guys the team released  (who at the time we as fans thought there would be no way we could win without these guys) were actually the difference between winning and losing championships?

     I think the only case could be made for Deon Branch considering how weak our wr group was in 2006. However an argument could be made that Branch with his career long injury problems probably wouldn't have made it the whole season in 2006. Which was imo a contributing factor in the Pats not giving him a big contract.

    Point is I feel comfortable in letting Mankins walk at this point.



     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SausageandPepper. Show SausageandPepper's posts

    Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?

    Too bad Logan is being lowballed he is an all-pro he deserves all-pro pay.

    What if one of the starters gets hurt this season? ( which seems too occur every year with this team)  Maybe the front office and coaching staff sees potential in the list of backups that Texas Pat mentioned earlier.  But there is an old saying "you get what you pay for "

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfans. Show patsfans's posts

    Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?

    In Response to Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?:
    In Response to Re: Who Will Replace Mankins? : While I agree that Mankins is a key and valuable player for the Pats. I completely disagree with the notion of "1 mill is chump change" This has been the line of reasoning for bad teams and more importantly bad front office's/owners. Examples being Washington Redskins, Oak Raiders, Detroit Lions. This is a new era and these teams failed to understand the system of placing a value on your players and not breaking it for any one individual( Lawyer, Ty, Deon, Asante, Willie,) and soon to be ex Patriot Mankins will be no different. Only the Patriots know what Mankins is worth and if he does not agree then simply paying him more money will not be the answer. To be honest I would be nervous if The Patriots changed there philosophy now as it would stand to challenge the integrity of the organization.
    Posted by TrueChamp


    I agree.  The other part of this equation that we don't know the answer to is whether or not the conflict is over the $ amount, or if it's the duration of the deal.  The Evans deal was for 7-years, while Mankins' would have been 5-years.  His agent said the $ amount was 20% less than what Evans got, yet after hearing what the contract offer was - the only way that really would have been the case was if he was talking about the total deal, not the avg per year.

    I don't know too many contracts the Pats are giving out that run longer than 5-years, so it's not like they're doing anything unusual there.  Needless to say only the Patriots and Mankins know what the real problem is.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?

    In Response to Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?:
    In Response to Re: Who Will Replace Mankins? : While I agree that Mankins is a key and valuable player for the Pats. I completely disagree with the notion of "1 mill is chump change" This has been the line of reasoning for bad teams and more importantly bad front office's/owners. Examples being Washington Redskins, Oak Raiders, Detroit Lions. This is a new era and these teams failed to understand the system of placing a value on your players and not breaking it for any one individual( Lawyer, Ty, Deon, Asante, Willie,) and soon to be ex Patriot Mankins will be no different. Only the Patriots know what Mankins is worth and if he does not agree then simply paying him more money will not be the answer. To be honest I would be nervous if The Patriots changed there philosophy now as it would stand to challenge the integrity of the organization.
    Posted by TrueChamp

    You're comparing apples and oranges.
     
    Going the extra mile to make you best OLineman happy is one thing. Especially as the increase he wants is less than 0.75% of our total payroll.

    You're comparing this to the chronic overspenders of the league, who always want to back the truck up to the door of every FA they court and every unproven high draft pick they sign, is something else entirely. That's not what I'm advocating and a truckload of money is not what it would take to being Mankins back into the fold.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?

    In Response to Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?:
    Tex, I have hopes that Kazcur can fill in adequately. RT to LG shouldn't be too big of an adjustment for him. He is somewhat of a swing Tackle to begin with being able to play both RT and LT. So being on the left side shouldn't be an issue. RTs normally play against power ends as opposed to speed ends. He will be playing against slower and maybe not any stronger DTs at LG. The biggest concern I had with him inside was how would he deal not being on the end of the line, but then thought he has been playing with TEs lined up on his strongside of the line his entire career. Overall I think losing Mankins and replacing him with Kazcur is a downgrade at LG. Replacing Kazcur with Vollmer at RT is an upgrade. So I still think we are about even with where we were last year. Let's just go get Kevin Mawae at Center and bump Koppen and we could potentially have a top unit again.
    Posted by MaritimePatsFan


         I've always thought that Kazcur's true position was at guard, rather than at OT. Mankins attitude has really turned me off. Though he's a very good player, he seems to think that he's better than he is...and wants too much money. If he doesn't come around soon, I look for the Pats to trade him for a first round draft choice. 

         For those who you who think that the Pats won't be able to land a #1 pick for him...be patient. Teams suffer injuries on their OL every year. Some team will step up. If not...let him stew. 
     
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    Re: Who Will Replace Mankins?


     

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