Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB? : That is clearly one of the most intellectual utterances of your life.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Here that wozzy!?!  Babe just inferred that you're TWICE as smart as him!  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    You know this question would really depend on several factors.

    For example: I would take Brady with Mike McCarthy as his coach over BB with Curtic Painter as his QB.

    But I would take BB with Phillip Rivers as his QB over Brady with Art Shell as his coach.
     
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    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?:
    [QUOTE]The question posed included "ignoring age/injuries"-- given this, the correct answer is Brady.
    Posted by bellhorn_[/QUOTE]

    Yes it is. But I fear that applying that qualification may be beyond the comprehension capacity of some of our lesser gifted minions.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Who would you keep, Brady or BB? : It certainly is a tough question, I know...  But I ask this after even setting aside the fact of Babe's 3000 posts railing against Bill Belichick:  How can one NOT wanna just jump right in to any babeparilli "Belichick or Brady" thread, when the honest and objective very first sentence that sends you on your initial way, begins as such- "'...I ask this setting aside the fact that players age OR get hurt'?" Pardon me while I don't just jump at the chance to jump right in to a ridiculous altematum, backed by loaded and absurd rhetoric from the get-go...
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

    C'mon lazzie. It's not that hard to decipher. Who has been more important to the team's success? That's the bottom line question.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    BB made Cassel into an all star practically. he can do it with anyone
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    BB Proved he can win w/o Brady with Cassel. He won 11 games that season remember?
     
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    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB? : C'mon lazzie. It's not that hard to decipher. Who has been more important to the team's success? That's the bottom line question.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Babe, ya GOTTA know my shtick by now...  Neither you, whom I might end up agreeing with 10% of your takes (wrong or right on either side), IS free from complimentary acknowledgements upon me believing you hit a home run on a great notion...  Neither zbellino, whom I tend to agree with on just about 100% of the time on the literary, social, and philosophical fronts (but whom I just agree with only about 95% of the time on various takes on NE Patriots Football)- IS himself, likewise free of criticism in the 1 outta 75,000 instances that we're at odds with on our varying dual notions...  Neither myself, whom I tend to recognize that I just may have slightly impartial self-interests upon, IS free of being awarded THE uptmost forms of glowing admiration towards...before wiping that hyperbole clean off the map, and trashing myself ruthlessly down to the lowest of lows (this portion's extremely reciprocal...like an unending & unbroken ellipse in design and scheme, back and forth, back and forth)...

    And, likewise...and ALWAYS (and I try very hard to maintain this) in the very same fabric of absolutely equal treatment, beit the highest pillars of respected & insightful solid thoughts & stances, or the cellars of ruthless criticisms on weak self-interested badly designed platforms, Neither Tom Brady NOR Bill Belichick, ARE either, Free from the most equal form of commondations or criticisms, just the same... 

    I WILL recognize and voice my perceptions on these guys, minus as many false claims, self-interested additions...or subtractions, AS I can...and I try.  Viewing a person's current doings, beliefs, or ideas (and especially results) is far more important to me, than looking at them through the guised veil of things such as: the past, and the entitlements afforded me THROUGH them, somewhere..or sometime.  Promises, Hopes, and Dreams of either Past Glory or Future Success, ARE all 1 in the same in my eyes on this present day:  Thankable and Pointless. 
          I do not ommit my appreciation, and I do not blindly believe that someone else would do better at the onset of some faltered attempt somewhere...YET, I cannot be blindlingly excusatory as a result of someone's current, very largely unconnected, Recognizable shortcomings (Behavior, somewhere else perhaps/ or Action, as it relates to here on The Pats Football Field and FO Decisions).

    Tom Brady in 2012...was NOT the Tom Brady I saw and came to know every where, and every time in the past...  Tom Brady was STILL a better Quarterback than 95%+ of every OTHER NFL Quarterback...THIS past year.  He just wasn't: The Tom Brady version of exceptionally excellent football abilities...He wasn't.   His pinpoint precise accuracies on the passed ball, were just- NOT what I've come to have actually SEEN for a long time, as being: "Tom Brady Precise."  They weren't.  His decision-making, was NOT in affect, what I've come to have SEEN and witness as being: "Tom Brady-esque decision-making."  They weren't.  And even Tom Brady's pocket-prescence, was NOT- the same "6th-Sense, Eyes-behind-his-head" Tom Brady pocket prescence as old...they weren't.  And it's noticeable...with clear perceptions, It IS noticeable how formerly Brady would just KNOW when and where pressure was coming, and he'd step up just 1 split second faster...  Where Brady's split-second freak-of-HOF-QB-reactions resulted in defenders getting just 1 hand, or just 1 or 2 fingers on him in the past...These same reactions are just 1 split second slower to react, and we see defenders getting maybe 1 full arm instead of 1 hand, or 1 full hand instead of 1 finger...on him (with all the inevitable results which incur, regardless of the utterly simplistic: "Total Sack Line" stat). 
         Would I currently want ANY-one else, other THAN Tom Brady as My NE QB...?  Bet'chre #ss I wouldn't.

    Same with Bill Belichick...  He gets NO pass on his shortcomings- Beit Belichick's Coordinators, which He ALONE, is responsible for...  Beit Belichick's Draft, which I've discussed ad nauseum:  NO-one...not 1 single OTHER NFL Coach starts his time at the drafting gambling table, by beginning the draft day betting, with LESS chips to play with, than Bill Belichick does...  How he saunters up to the draft-day table, with this many chips, time and time again...IS astounding.  Really, it's almost some act of fiction that'cha couldn't believe until it occurs in reality, time and time and time again.  But, He uses his bankroll...Like Sh#t.  My gahd he does...he just does.  Just solely view it in terms of what one SHOULD view it in simplest terms of:  Draft day bank roll (total chips and high chips of selections) verses Winning Results each time he sits down to play that at 1 single tournament (i.e. Excellent players/Winnings accumulated at the end of each tournament/Single NFL Draft)...AWFUL.  2010 Draft Year was the year I believed he had finally figured it out, and thus would use that year as a blueprint for himself on how to draft (I've authored numerous threads detailing this draft, how he excercised it, and how I recognized it as being brilliant THAT very day- "2010 NFL NE Patriots Draft- Easily The best Pats draft in a decade, and possibly longer").  But no...back to wasting chips (and their amounts) needlessly...when a lower bet WILL do- Your guy might be taken off a round or a 1/2 round earlier than his projected drafting selection target area...heck, he might even be a pure STUD that'cha missed out on in the end...But Dear GAHD- This Does NOT excuse you to have anywhere from 3, 4, 5, or even More MULTI-ROUND "Reaches" on Players just SO far away from their latter target positional areas, where way more often than not, You WOULD still be able to select them at a lesser draft selection pick price for NE...

    ~~~

    Babe, I uphold this philosophy in my everyday life, as much as I can, and as consistantly as I can...and I try.  Overbearing police officer archetypal of authority & control, Executive in the tie simply exuding the airs of success and that there's nothing he can't seemingly handle- VERY same treatment...bar none, that I grant in the very same fashion, manner, and amount, at the get-go, TO: The homeless guy living on the side of the outlet store in the next town...nor even the family of feral cats outback of the condo complex's main office area. 
    In fact, Wishin' perhaps that I was a tad bit more role-playing in personality...maybe then, I could actually have 1 or 2 stable portions of my day-to-day mindset as it relates to me (and you guys...witness and oftentimes, subject to my own Cybills).  
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    Well Laz, we all should try to refrain from groping for the empty brass ring of self importance. I agree with you there.

    On BB I also agree in part. He is a shrewd draft trader. Why? Because he knows exactly what he is dealing with. Much as he is expert on knowing which guys he actually has that are worth keeping. Virtually infallible on those counts. When he KNOWS he is the best.

    But yes, he is no better than the next guy at seeing what will come from something he doesn't have assured knowledge of. He is about as intuitive as a stump in that way. This is why he is a great coach and average GM. As a coach he can know. As a GM he has to guess right.

    And on him having the least resource to draft with.... not really. Those top 5-10 draft picks all these cap years were more team cripplers than helpers. The bust rate is so high and the cost of those picks so high that actually using them was a recipe for disaster. Drafting a much more reasonably priced guy in the mid to later portions of the draft actually was an advantage for BB and the other teams that stayed on top for so long. If BB had been rebuilding at that time from a bad team he would have traded those high picks away nearly every time.

    On Brady... 35 and 25 are like night and day. Your senses and reflexes wane. But your knowledge offsets those physical deteriorations until they physical gets so bad no amount of knowledge can overcome them. So he isn't the same guy he was. He's better... in some ways. He still is clutch, but probably doesn't have that youthful psycho desire to prove himself at all costs. He's a dad. He's a hubby. Things change. But he is still the best damned player we have ever had, by far.

    It will be dreadful when he goes. But I do have a small pleasure to look forward to at that time. I will see the people here who have no idea how much this guy has lifted this franchise finally learn just what they had. At this time many of them just don't know. They will. And the lesson will be harsh.

    It's not BB (with all due respect to him as a great coach), it's Brady. I will endeavor to post some proof of that in the coming days.


    You can't agree with zbellino 95% of the time. I agree with him 95% of the time, and you and I agree with each other 10% of the time. That does not compute.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?:
    [QUOTE]I do not think there is any question here at all. Why? Because there is no really good team without a really good coach. It may be hard to replace a QB like Brady... but it is much harder to replace that level of talent at coach. The history of the NFL is littered with excellent to even great QBs who never won a championship. Jurgensen is a great example. I would say he is up there next to Unitas as a QB. I saw both of them play. And not just on TV. Archie Manning was also exceptional. Then there was Dan Fouts and then Dan Marino. There was Jim Kelly and Warren Moon (the latter Very underrated). More recently Rivers is a fair example. But what great coaches got "nowhere"? You could make a case for Marv Levy and Shottenheimer. While Don Coryell was a great offense mind he was not an exceptional head coach. Maybe more like a Buddy Ryan but likable and on the other side of the ball. QB may be the most important player but the most important person to a team is the head coach. Period. It starts there. Put together your dream teams Babe. They come and go. Every few years thre is another one. Every decade. They always have some great names. Whether it is last year's Eagles or Dallas every other year or the Chargers, or.... whoever. Go back to past decades. There are all kinds of examples of teams that were so good ON PAPER. But coaches are not good on paper. They either get more wins than the other guy or more wins than they "should" (like 2008, like 2010... etc.) or they do not. You want to start a fantasy team... a team that is great as a video game or something to "score" each week and show your great insight into talent while you drink your beer? Then pick a QB. You want a great team, start with the coach. Then build the roster.
    Posted by portfolio1[/QUOTE]

    BB's record without a QB named "Brady?"

    52-62.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    Bill Walsh was 17-23 without Joe Montana.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeffab. Show jeffab's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    I would have to go with BB.  Brady is a great QB, but he's 35 and not getting any younger.  The season Brady was out injured and the Pats went 11-5 does kind of help this argument along.  I think in all actuality though, the Pats will be in a situation where both of these guys decide to hang it up around the same time, so it may be difficult to determine whom helped whose legacy out more.  Bill's record before Brady has been brought up, but I'm not sure how relevant that is.  Most of those games were in the Cleveland Browns days and you can't assume that BB didn't learn anything from past failures. 

    Either way, I'm thankful that the Pats have had both of them.  The need on this board to assess blame to either the coaching or Brady's play when a Superbowl isn't won every year seems a bit ridiculous.  This is a competetive team every year....why not enjoy that instead of being angry that things don't always end with the perfect result?  I would imagine this is in large part tied to people worrying about the future when Brady and BB are both gone.  Just enjoy and appreciate the present.....it sure is better than the Patriot past I remember as a kid.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?:
    [QUOTE]Bill Walsh was 17-23 without Joe Montana.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    lol!!

    That shoud slap the anti-BB trolls down pretty good.  That was in the pre cap era, too.

    Imagine if BB got his way to bench Kosar before he was allowed to start Testaverde?  Imagine if BB could have had GM control in Cleveland to make the cuts he wanted?

    How funny is it that the anti-BB types don't get that he wrote the book on cap era economics.

    Ask Mike Lombardi. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?:
    [QUOTE]The question posed included "ignoring age/injuries"-- given this, the correct answer is Brady.
    Posted by bellhorn_[/QUOTE]

    How does a coach get injured or become affected by injuries?  The question should also include "ignore the salary cap and witch hunts like Spygate".

    lmao
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB? : Here that wozzy !?!  Babe just inferred that you're TWICE as smart as him!  
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

    Most everyone else here (those who don't side with Babe) are twice as smart as our friend, Babie boy.  Trust us.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from DoNotSleepOnThePats. Show DoNotSleepOnThePats's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    Love both of them.  Gotta stick with Bill Belichick.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?:
    [QUOTE] Imagine if BB got his way to bench Kosar before he was allowed to start Testaverde?
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    Yes, just imagine if the 16W - 15L at Cleveland Vinny had been BB's guy all along. Wow, he might have been 42W and 38L or something like that! Great point as usual!

    That might have changed BB's record of one playoff appearance in the 7 seasons that Brady wasn't his QB. Though it still might not have bested the 9 out of 10 playoff shows with Brady as his QB. LMAO@U!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    BB, for the long-term good of the team.  Tom Brady will be 35 in training camp.  Sometimes coaches can go on forever like Joe Pa.

    Cassell was great when he had to show his worth.  We haven't seen BB's current hole cards, Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallett, but so far BB has played them like they have some value.  Hoyer is the only Patriot to get an RFA tender.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?:
    [QUOTE]BB, for the long-term good of the team.  Tom Brady will be 35 in training camp.  Sometimes coaches can go on forever like Joe Pa. Cassell was great when he had to show his worth.  We haven't seen BB's current hole cards, Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallett, but so far BB has played them like they have some value.  Hoyer is the only Patriot to get an RFA tender.
    Posted by Paul_K[/QUOTE]

    Did you read the part about disregarding age or injury? Unfortunately I suspect more than just yourself missed that qualifier.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    Nah, Paul is just smarter than you, Babe.  I'd take BB in a nursing home over Brady in his prime throwing 40+ times  a game in a finesse offense, obsessively, over and over thinking things will change.

    The only way I'd change my mind is if Brady was the Brady of old and reined in throwing less than 35 times per game and getting/trying to get a run game established, patiently, in the first half.
     
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    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB? : Yes, just imagine if the 16W - 15L at Cleveland Vinny had been BB's guy all along. Wow, he might have been 42W and 38L or something like that! Great point as usual! That might have changed BB's record of one playoff appearance in the 7 seasons that Brady wasn't his QB. Though it still might not have bested the 9 out of 10 playoff shows with Brady as his QB. LMAO@U!
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    The year after he made him a starter Testaverde went to a Pro Bowl. GREAT point as usual by myself when people like you try to gloss over facts and contexts like a $50/hr court appointed attorney. The fact is, others always do more homework than people like yourself.

    You aren't as intelligent as you think you are.  Trust us.

    BB didn't have the control in Cleveland that he does here now, drippy.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?


    Kind of a strange question Babe. You already had your answer and would not be swayed even before you posted the question.

    BB or TB? Which has more value to the Pats organization? I would go with BB all day long. It takes more than an HOF QB to win consistenly and big games. Just ask Peyton Manning in the early 2000's when he was getting his butt handed to him by the Pats every year. And, it wasn't Brady who was doing it. It was a our Defense, with great players and scheme specific to stop / slow down Manning. That is BB and of course Romeo.

    BB coach and GM has a lot more opportunity when compared to Brady a QB,  to architect the outcome of a season. Personnel decisions, scheme, game planning, play calling, etc. I don't know how having a HOF QB is more value to devising and executing team strategy on 3 sides of the ball? Please advise.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    what a tool
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    im suprised bp is not called out more...  it has become very obvious he is the ron borges of this patriots blog....  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    In Response to Who would you keep, Brady or BB?:
    [QUOTE]I know. It is a tough question. But I ask this setting aside the fact players age or get hurt. I would keep Brady and take my chances on finding a good coach. But I suspect most Pats' fans will vote to keep BB. It's just too hard to find that elite QB.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

         This is a silly question. The only way that Brady should be given any consideration over BB is if Brady is entering his prime...ages 25-32. Otherwise, taking BB is a no brainer. He is the greatest coach in NFL history. His 2001 SB winning season, back  to back SB wins in 2003-04, incredible 2006 WR-less season, 2007 18-1 season, 2008 11-5 season with Matt Cassel at QB (despite your weak schedule arguments), and 2010 (14-2) and 2011 (13-3) seasons were unbelievable coaching feats. 

         I don't know of any other coach who could have gotten results similar to what BB did over the past two years, considering the overall talent he had to work with.
          
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Who would you keep, Brady or BB?

    I'd keep belichick.  NOT EVEN CLOSE.  Brady is good, maybe even great, but I can find a few like him or close.  NO ONE close to BB.  
     

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