Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

         Despite a fabulous, and unexpected, 14-2 regular season, the Patriots fell flat on their faces in the play-offs, suffering an embarrassing 28-21 loss at home to the hated Jets.

         The inability of the Patriots' "D" to pressure QB Mark Sanchez, and cover tall Jets' receiver, Braylon Edwards, were the prime factors in the loss. Yet, the Patriots added no pass-rushing help in the April draft. They instead accepted the reality that JOB ONE is to protect Tom Brady...traded their 2nd first round selection for the 56th overall pick, and a #1 pick in 2012, and used a second selection on a tall, physical CB (Ras-I Dowling)...who, hopefully, can stay with receivers such as Edwards. They then, in essence, spent their multiple second...third, and fourh round picks on two RBs, a QB, and a second rounder in 2012.

         Here are some cold, hard football facts which help to explain why the top teams in both Conferences, the Patriots and Atlanta Falcons, were one and done in the play-offs: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3770_The_numbers_that_defined_2010%3A_5.6.html   

         Thoughts? 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dna53. Show dna53's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    Not sure why they got some really good players
    http://60maxpowero.com/draftermath1.html
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    The Pats have a young and inexperienced D that exceeded expecatations all season. They were clearly vulnerable however, and anyone watching the season could see how they were open to a bad game which unfortunately came in the playoffs. I'm happy with what they did. They showed promise from what should have been a terrible defnense last season. They haven't learned how to win the big game though, and that is mostly due to inexperience in the young players. I top rookie pass rusher is not going to fix that problem. They will need the young players to develop into the veteran leadership, and they might start seeing that next season. We shall see. 

    The Jets did outsmart the Pats not showing them what they really had in mind in their final meeting of the regular season. I think they really surprised the Pats. 

    I think we will have a better team next year so I'm looking forward to that. 
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    As I have stated the only defensive players I wanted the Pats to draft were Dareus, Miller, Watt or Peterson. And they went well before our pick(s). Belichick is trying to overhaul the O line like he did the defense. Neal is gone, Mankins and or Light could be gone so its not really a bad idea to draft Solder and Cannon. As for the RBs Taylor is done, Morris could be gone, Law Firm is a RFA and Faulk is coming off a serious injury. After Solder i really doubt we were gonna get the greatest pass rushing OLB in history. Warren is back and Cunningham has a year under his belt. We could have drafted Smith or Carter or any other OLB who will never be as good as McGinest, but what would be the point if Brady spends all of 2011 on his a--.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    I don't see anybody here with blinders on.  The defense wasn't great and most of us knew that.  It was young and learning.  It did fair better than I thought it would.  So, for a team to lose it's first playoff game during a transition period wasn't surprising.  What hurt was it was against the Jets.  That's the sting right there.

    Things that went wrong are numerous.  The DL was on IR.  Dragging folks off the streets to start spells trouble.  The OL penalties were very uncharacteristic.  Turnovers which had belonged to the Pats all year were suddenly the ownership of the Jets.

    An item nobody has brought up and that's the disappearance of the special teams.  I thought these guys were going to be great.  It seemed to turn very mediocre during the second half of the season.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    This article has some merit, even if it is not breaking any new ground in its analysis.

    It's not rocket science. The one thing our D did pretty well during the season was force turnovers. In the playoffs that didn't happen. So.... if you don't do the one thing you can do well...... you probably lose.

    That's not to say if the O was firing on all cylinders such a lapse by the D could not have been overcome. But when the O-line was doing its best impression of the '07 SB O-line, there wasn't much of a chance of the O making up for the D not doing the only thing they could do well.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    Lies, damn lies, and statistics . . .

    Statistically, the Pats defense wasn't so good and their offense very good last year. But in the Jets playoff game it was the offense's inability to move the ball and get key first downs that sunk the Pats.  The D played well enough to win if the offense could have sustained drives.  Here are the results of each offensive drive in that game:

    1.  8 plays, interception
    2. 11 plays, field goal
    3.  4 plays, punt
    4.  5 plays, punt
    6.  7 plays, fake punt
    7.  3 plays, kneel
    8.  5 plays, punt
    9.  6 plays, punt
    10. 9 plays, TD and 2 pt conversion
    11. 15 plays, turned over on downs
    12. 7 plays, field goal
    13. 7 plays, TD

    Those stalled out drives in the middle of the game (drives 3 to 9) were what killed the Pats.  Both of the Jets touchdowns in the first half resulted when the Jets started drives with good field position.  The first touchdown was the direct result of a pathetic offensive performance (drive 3) which ended with Brady being sacked at the 16 and the Jets getting the ball at midfield after the punt.  The second touchdown was the result of the fake punt. In both cases, the defense was put in bad positions by the offense.  The Jets third touchdown didn't come until the fourth quarter and that was a true defensive breakdown (the 58-yard completion by Cotchery against an out-of-position secondary), but other than that 58-yard give-up, the defense generally played fairly well (not great, but okay).  Our problem really was that our offense wasn't effective against the Jets' defense.  Yeah, we need a better pass rush and better coverage in the secondary, but mostly we need more diversity on offense so we can respond when an opposing defense is able to shut down our short passing game as the Jets did. If your strength is supposed to be your offense, scoring your first touchdown in the closing seconds of the third quarter just doesn't cut it. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JulesWinfield. Show JulesWinfield's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    I know the Pats were 14-2, but I don't think that they were a dominating 14-2.  I think a lot of chips fell in their favor to get to that record.  Watching 5 or 6 Patriot games last year, I thought the team had more of a 10-6 or 11-5 feel to it.  Then, in the playoffs, you simply got beaten by a pretty good team.  I don't think there was any great lesson to be learned or any great choke job.  The NY Jets were just a better team that day...

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dessalines. Show Dessalines's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]     Despite a fabulous, and unexpected, 14-2 regular season, the Patriots fell flat on their faces in the play-offs, suffering an embarrassing 28-14 loss at home to the hated Jets.      The inability of the Patriots' "D" to pressure QB Mark Sanchez, and cover tall Jets' receiver, Braylon Edwards, were the prime factors in the loss. Yet, the Patriots added no pass-rushing help in the April draft. They instead accepted the reality that JOB ONE is to protect Tom Brady...traded their 2nd first round selection for the 56th overall pick, and a #1 pick in 2012, and used a second selection on a tall, physical CB (Ras-I Dowling)...who, hopefully, can stay with receivers such as Edwards. They then, in essence, spent their multiple second...third, and fourh round picks on two RBs, a QB, and a second rounder in 2012.      Here are some cold, hard football facts which help to explain why the top teams in both Conferences, the Patriots and Atlanta Falcons, were one and done in the play-offs: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3770_The_numbers_that_defined_2010%3A_5.6.html          Thoughts? 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    I believe the YETS won this game on defense.  Simply put, Brady had no one to throw to and that was obvious very early on.  The YETS played coverage all game.  You will recall the sudden spate of throws in the direction of Alge Crumpler, who had been an after thought in the passing game all season long.  You are barking up the wrong tree. 


    However, I wouldn't mind the pick up of a viable pass rusher to beef things up a bit.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    TP... understand your points... but...

    In a May issue of ESPN the Mag, Rex Ryan of the Jets was asked to react to Jets fans equal disappointment in their team's draft.  His response, paraphrasing here:  " Did the fans see all the game tapes of the players we drafted and the scouting reports?  I doubt any of them did."  So, in a nutshell, how can fans make a judgment, in all honesty, without knowing what the team's objectives were in the draft?  Fans are too knee jerk reactors to team moves and seem to think the team should think like a fan.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    Good article, thanks for the link. The point that stuck with me is this; 

    Isn't a team that gives up five yards a play on 60 plays (300 yards) better than the one that allows six yards a play on 50 plays (300 yards)?

    The reason this sticks with me, is alot of folks (myself included) felt after the draft that the Pats plan is to strengthen the run game with the additions of OL help, Vereen and Ridley, in order to keep the offense on the field and our defense off the field. But as the article points out what good is it if the D does not get it done when its on the field?!
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]Good article, thanks for the link. .... But as the article points out what good is it if the D does not get it done when its on the field?!
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]
    THAT is the key statement in your post.. for all the offensive firepower of the Pats, the Pats D needs to keep the other team to more 3 and outs instead of the all too often giving up 1st down plays on relatively long 3rd down plays.  Just what is it about this D and third downs?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]THAT is the key statement in your post.. for all the offensive firepower of the Pats, the Pats D needs to keep the other team to more 3 and outs instead of the all too often giving up 1st down plays on relatively long 3rd down plays.  Just what is it about this D and third downs?
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]
    One step at a time.
    Two years ago, they couldn't hold 4th quarter leads.
    Last year, they held but had trouble with 3rd downs.
    This year, the defense will be a strength.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rpn123321. Show rpn123321's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    I have no comment for a sport that may not resume in quite awhile. It's pointless to talk about a season that probably isn't going to happen, and if it does it will only be a half assed 6 or 8 games with probably 1 preseason game. That's dumb.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dna53. Show dna53's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    Don'y worry...they are good players...http://60maxpowero.com/draftermath1.html
    http://60maxpowero.com/draftermath2.html
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]I don't think they surprised the Pats at all. Brady's INT and the Crumpler drop had a 14-0 lead disappear. Pats got tight and didn't execute, some of it in part to the Jets smelling a chance to beat them and executing better. Bill O'Brien didn't adjust.   He waited too long.   Chung's fumble was also clearly a gift/mistake. NE played great in December, played the same offense in the playoff game and failed to execute, made mistakes and the Jets took advantage. I don't see it as NY hiding secret plays at all.  You win on the lines.   NE was beaten on the lines. Everything else you said I agree completely.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    i would agree completely... pats score its a different game... and then I think pats thought they would still be able to score at will as game went on but couldnt...  you give a team enough chances and eventually somethings gonna give...  
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]Lies, damn lies, and statistics . . . Statistically, the Pats defense wasn't so good and their offense very good last year. But in the Jets playoff game it was the offense's inability to move the ball and get key first downs that sunk the Pats.  The D played well enough to win if the offense could have sustained drives.  Here are the results of each offensive drive in that game: 1.  8 plays, interception 2. 11 plays, field goal 3.  4 plays, punt 4.  5 plays, punt 6.  7 plays, fake punt 7.  3 plays, kneel 8.  5 plays, punt 9.  6 plays, punt 10. 9 plays, TD and 2 pt conversion 11. 15 plays, turned over on downs 12. 7 plays, field goal 13. 7 plays, TD Those stalled out drives in the middle of the game (drives 3 to 9) were what killed the Pats.  Both of the Jets touchdowns in the first half resulted when the Jets started drives with good field position.  The first touchdown was the direct result of a pathetic offensive performance (drive 3) which ended with Brady being sacked at the 16 and the Jets getting the ball at midfield after the punt.  The second touchdown was the result of the fake punt. In both cases, the defense was put in bad positions by the offense.  The Jets third touchdown didn't come until the fourth quarter and that was a true defensive breakdown (the 58-yard completion by Cotchery against an out-of-position secondary), but other than that 58-yard give-up, the defense generally played fairly well (not great, but okay).  Our problem really was that our offense wasn't effective against the Jets' defense.  Yeah, we need a better pass rush and better coverage in the secondary, but mostly we need more diversity on offense so we can respond when an opposing defense is able to shut down our short passing game as the Jets did. If your strength is supposed to be your offense, scoring your first touchdown in the closing seconds of the third quarter just doesn't cut it. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, but allowing 14 points in the 4th quarter is bad D when the game is on the line. (that's a 56 point a game rate)

    And allowing a 70 passer to throw up a 127 is bad D.

    And allowing 28 points in a playoff game is bad D when you allowed under 20 on the season.

    And a D that did one thing well, turnovers, and got zero in that game, is bad D.

    The O certainly doesn't deserve any medals in that game, especially the O-line, but the D lost that game by wilting before a substandard QB in the 4th quarter. It is the same old story with Pat's D for years now. They just don't get it done in the end game.


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]TP... understand your points... but... In a May issue of ESPN the Mag, Rex Ryan of the Jets was asked to react to Jets fans equal disappointment in their team's draft.  His response, paraphrasing here:  " Did the fans see all the game tapes of the players we drafted and the scouting reports?  I doubt any of them did."  So, in a nutshell, how can fans make a judgment, in all honesty, without knowing what the team's objectives were in the draft?  Fans are too knee jerk reactors to team moves and seem to think the team should think like a fan.
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]

         Actually, I'm not that critical of the Patriots' draft. I agreed with the selection of OT Nate Solder at #17, overall. As I have repeatedly stated, protecting Tom Brady is job one. With aging, fading LT Matt Light an UFA, this selection made a ton of sense.

         I also think that trading the 28th overall pick for the 56th overall pick, plus the Saints' #1 in 2012, represented good value. I wasn't sold on RB Mark Ingram. Evidently, BB wasn't sold enough on DE/DT Muhammad Wilkerson to prevent him from pulling the trigger on the aforementioned Saints' trade. Time will tell whether BB was right.

         The selection of DB Ras-I Dowling over DE/OLB Jabal Sheard and/or Brooks Reed bothered me initially. But, Dowling isn't one of those smallish Terrence Wheatley/Ellis Hobbs 5'9", 185 lb CBs. Were it not for injuries sustained in college, the Leigh Bodden-sized Dowling would have been a #1 pick.  

         Where I had a problem was with how the 56th, 60th and 73rd overall picks  were used. I thought that RBs Shane Vereen and Stevan Ridley could have be had later, and that there was better value at the WR position. BUT...upon relection, wasn't Vareen selected primarily to be a receiver, coming out of the backfield? A replacement needed to be found for 34 year old Kevin Faulk, who is coming off a season-ending knee injury. 

         As for Ridley, perhaps BB sees another BJGE? At the very least, Ridley should replace Sammy Morris as a short yardage, goal-line power back. 

         Taking QB Ryan Mallett at #74 appears to be a good gamble. He's got the size you love in a QB, standing at over 6'6", and weighing over 250 lbs....and has a cannon for an arm. This is not another Kevin O'Connell long shot. Mallett starred in the rugged SEC...not at San Diego State. If he works hard and matures, the Pats might have another Tom Brady-type steal. 

         I really liked the selections of OG/RT Marcus Cannon, and TE Lee Smith. Keep an eye on Smith. He has the size and athleticism to eventually be converted to an OT.

         Like most of you here, I'm sick and tired of watching average QBs get all day to throw, and pick the Pats' defense apart. But, as "Quagmire" pointed out, the offense failed against the Jets. Furthermore, the last three playoff losses against the Giants, Ravens, and Jets had much to do with the Pats OL losing the battle at the line of scrimmage.

         Let's see what these kids can do, before we start ripping BB.          
               
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dmcpatsfan. Show dmcpatsfan's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    I believe the D has been getting unfairly ripped on the loss to the Jets....the offense played very poorly causing the D to be on the field much longer than it should have as well as the O not putting up the points it should have....Brady's INT. seemed to derail him & he never recovered...crumplers drop of a sure TD hurt & chungs fumbled direct snap put the jets O deep in our teritory....Pats only lost by 7 but the O was a HUGE factor in that....

    I loved this draft..Pats now have 2 ponding backs & 2 revieving back threats that can create matchup nightmares trying to game plan against, the infusion of youth, speed,power & talent will allow the offense to be much more diverse & creative on play calling....Solder & Cannon are huge lineman & I see Lee Smith as more of a Crumpler replacement than future o-lineman....

    Personally I hope the Pats go offensive line early in the next draft,they need to add youth & power to the line to protect Brady & Mallett when he steps in....
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]Lies, damn lies, and statistics . . . Statistically, the Pats defense wasn't so good and their offense very good last year. But in the Jets playoff game it was the offense's inability to move the ball and get key first downs that sunk the Pats.  The D played well enough to win if the offense could have sustained drives.  Here are the results of each offensive drive in that game: 1.  8 plays, interception 2. 11 plays, field goal 3.  4 plays, punt 4.  5 plays, punt 6.  7 plays, fake punt 7.  3 plays, kneel 8.  5 plays, punt 9.  6 plays, punt 10. 9 plays, TD and 2 pt conversion 11. 15 plays, turned over on downs 12. 7 plays, field goal 13. 7 plays, TD Those stalled out drives in the middle of the game (drives 3 to 9) were what killed the Pats.  Both of the Jets touchdowns in the first half resulted when the Jets started drives with good field position.  The first touchdown was the direct result of a pathetic offensive performance (drive 3) which ended with Brady being sacked at the 16 and the Jets getting the ball at midfield after the punt.  The second touchdown was the result of the fake punt. In both cases, the defense was put in bad positions by the offense.  The Jets third touchdown didn't come until the fourth quarter and that was a true defensive breakdown (the 58-yard completion by Cotchery against an out-of-position secondary), but other than that 58-yard give-up, the defense generally played fairly well (not great, but okay).  Our problem really was that our offense wasn't effective against the Jets' defense.  Yeah, we need a better pass rush and better coverage in the secondary, but mostly we need more diversity on offense so we can respond when an opposing defense is able to shut down our short passing game as the Jets did. If your strength is supposed to be your offense, scoring your first touchdown in the closing seconds of the third quarter just doesn't cut it. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]


    What happened to 5. ?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections : What happened to 5. ?
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]

    Must have been over before it started . . . 


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Why Many Patriots' Fans Were Upset over 2011 Draft Selections

    The draft sucked.
     

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