Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from raptor64d. Show raptor64d's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    Amen brother, well said!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dafoe. Show dafoe's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    In Response to Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010:
    [QUOTE]Outside of the other topics as to why NE's D may good, mediocre or even bad, with everyone giving reasons as to why they feel a certain way.... I just want to revisit a quote from camp in 2005 from one, Chad Brown: "I have been in the league 13 years and when you add in HS and college I have had too many coaches to list....and let me tell you, with BB it was like I was learning a whole new game - techniques I never knew or even heard off - I wish I played for him much earlier in my career." Bill Belichick is the best coach in the NFL, if not in all of sports. His talents are many, but I don't think anyone is better at harnessing a player's skill set and channeling it into a focused role on a team, simplifying it down for the player. That said, his approach is so unique, creative and always changing. I fully expect an upgrade on defense this year because this team, quite simply, has the best defensive mind running it.              
    Posted by russgriswold[/QUOTE]

    And after making that quote, Chad Brown stunk up the joint until he was cut. The Patriots defense wasn't much better that year either. In fact, it was awful before improving towards the end of the year.

    Bill is not a magician. He's just a very good coach. And he has his strengths and weaknesses. He still needs talent. The secondary is looking pretty solid. But the pass rush department is looking scary. They were 23rd in the league in sacks last year. And I don't know what the stats were, but I don't remember them getting a lot of pressure either. It certainly doesn'tseem like they've gotten any better in the offseason.

    If this is going to be a top ten defense, they are going to do it with smoke and mirrors. My bet is, if they are going to win, they are going to have to ride the offense. Which means the OC is going to have do a much better job than he did last year.

    I feel like this team could go 14-2 or 8-8. And neither would surprise me   
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimNotJimmy. Show JimNotJimmy's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    I agree the D will be alot better this year. They only lost AD, Jarvis Green and Shawn Springs. AD was not much of a factor anyway. Darius Butler showed signs of flash last year and I'm guessing he'll only be better this year so not much of a loss with Springs either. Hopefully Burgess comes back, he looked good towards the end of the year. They finally have good depth at ILB with Mckenzie back and drafting Spikes. I also think the offense is going to help the D this year. Brady will be better now that he's recovered from nagging injuries and I think the O will be close to that of 2007 maybe not as good but you never know. Someone mentioned Vrabel's sacks in 2007. Not to take anything away from Vrabel but the Pats had a big lead by halftime lots of times that year which forced teams to throw more and be more predictable. That is why I feel the O will help the D this year and the D will be a much better unit this year than last year anyway.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    Every season, for 12-14 games, the opposing team takes the field, gains some yards, but only gets into our endzone once or twice.  I don't see any reason why we should expect that to change this year.  And I would take this result over all the "playmaking", "aggressive", "pressure", "physical", "attitude" etc. defensive superlatives that some people on this forum constantly scream for.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

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    In Response to Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010:
    [QUOTE]Dude, Chad Brown was 34 years old trying to convert to MLB in a 3-4 because bruschi had a stroke. And converting to MLB playing full time, was something only Bruschi ever looked good doing after starting a career as an edge rusher. Way to miss the entire point of that quote.  The point is Chad Brown was an OLB Pro Bowler who was blown away by BB's vision and teaching ability after playing 10+ seasons in the NFL. The point is, BB is a master teacher.  BB is only a "very good coach"? Really?  The guy who is second all time in playoff winning% to Lombardi is just "very good"? The Jets had only one more sack than NE and NY was rated #1 as an overall D. Again, it's not all about sacks only with a pass rush. Did you watch this defense in 2008 or 2009?  Wasn't that "smoke and mirrors" then with aging players at LB all over the field? I cannot wait to see people with their jaws open on the floor wondering how BB does it again. Maybe if the "pass rush" was there in SB 42 with Seymour, Vrabel, Colvin, Seau, Bruschi, etc they would have won? NEWSFLASH: This team's rush has been deteriorating for 3 seasons.  Guess what? It bottomed out last year.
    Posted by russgriswold[/QUOTE]
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010 :
    Posted by BADAZZ[/QUOTE]
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    They bottomed out last year? Is that from BB's mouth? This is a young and eager to learn defense. I would hope for NE fans that that is true. I don't think though that any empirical observant scout could make that claim. Too many maybe, if and should thinking going into an untested season.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    What we've been lacking are the big plays on D.

    I'm hopeful that players like Butler, Bodden, Mayo, Spikes, Merriweather, Chung are the beginning of a new generation of D-fence playmakers.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    Good Shite Rusty, What will be interesting is that this is probably the 1st time in BBs career as a head coach that he will have multiple athletic young depth at every position on defense. I know that "Veteran" players were always important to the complexities of the D but if these players can beat the learning curve then the potential is there fot this defense to do things that have rarely been seen before.

    I know how much flack I will get for that statement but the fact is we have never seen this many high draft picks on BBs roster at the same time.

    Think about it.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dafoe. Show dafoe's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    In Response to Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010:
    [QUOTE]Dude, Chad Brown was 34 years old trying to convert to MLB in a 3-4 because bruschi had a stroke. And converting to MLB playing full time, was something only Bruschi ever looked good doing after starting a career as an edge rusher. Way to miss the entire point of that quote.  The point is Chad Brown was an OLB Pro Bowler who was blown away by BB's vision and teaching ability after playing 10+ seasons in the NFL. The point is, BB is a master teacher.  BB is only a "very good coach"? Really?  The guy who is second all time in playoff winning% to Lombardi is just "very good"? The Jets had only one more sack than NE and NY was rated #1 as an overall D. Again, it's not all about sacks only with a pass rush. Did you watch this defense in 2008 or 2009?  Wasn't that "smoke and mirrors" then with aging players at LB all over the field? I cannot wait to see people with their jaws open on the floor wondering how BB does it again. Maybe if the "pass rush" was there in SB 42 with Seymour, Vrabel, Colvin, Seau, Bruschi, etc they would have won? NEWSFLASH: This team's rush has been deteriorating for 3 seasons.  Guess what? It bottomed out last year.
    Posted by russgriswold[/QUOTE]

    My rather smart azzed point was Belichick's master teaching ability didn't do Chad Brown or the 05 Pats much good. Being able to relay info is great. But the student still has to be able to absorb it. And then, in this case, have the talent to utilize that knowledge.

    We can argue about Belichick's coaching ability all day. Personally I think he's lost a step. The 01 Superbowl was one of the greatest coaching performances in NFL history. He's still a very good coach. But I think he's lost a few mph off his fastball. Sevral times over the last few years, we've seen him get out coached. That NEVER used to happen. He's pushing 60. It happens.

    Like I said, he's still a very good coach. And I can't think of anybody I'd rather have. But the man doesn't walk on water. There's only so much he can do. He still needs talent.

    And no, the Pats have never had big sack totals. But when they where championship caliber they were getting pressure and disrupting the offense, giving the secondary a chance to make plays. You can't be a shutdown defense without getting pressure. How many times last year did we see them not get within 5 yards of the QB? Guys were taking six or seven seconds in the pocket without a Patriots player getting within arm's length.That can't happen regularly.

    Belichick has done some amazing things. They would have won the Superbowl against the Bears with Troy Brown at CB had they not been hosed by the refs in the AFC Championship game that year. Will the Pats defense be better with Belichick than it would be with most anybody else? Yes. But he's also not a magician. Some people go a little over the top when talking about the coaching advantage. That's all I'm saying. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    ProFootballFocus.com's team ratings put New England's 2009 defense at #11, so they don't have far to go. 

    Defensive starters added since last year:  Spikes, Cunningham, McCourty
    Quality backups added since last year:  McKenzie
    Guys that improved plenty after their rookie year:  Butler, Chung.
    Guys that healed up:  Mayo.  Wheatley seems to have gotten better.
    Important guys lost:  none
    Backups lost:  Burgess, Springs

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    The two things the pats (under BB) care about on defense.... is...

    points scored   and

    sacks.....hahaha just kidding...

    getting off the field on third down...

    go back and research it  these are the things BB talked about that needed to be better when the pats were close but not yet good enough

    ..also just think about it from a common sense standpoint...   if your very good in third down efficiency (you must be doing something good on first and second down) your coming off the field   hence less trips to the endzone...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    Top 10?  Try top 3.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    In Response to Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010:
    [QUOTE]Top 10?  Try top 3.
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]

    For real mighty? Or are just cheer-leading?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    This D will be like every other Pats D: give up yards, limit scoring opportunities when opponents cross mid-field.  They don't need to be dominant, and I don't think they will be.  Sacks will be overrated by lots of people.  They need to apply pressure, sacks are icing on the cake.  This defense may not peak this year, but there are lots of pieces in place.     
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    In Response to Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010 : For real mighty? Or are just cheer-leading?
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Awww who am I kidding.  #1 ... in everything.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    In Response to Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010:
    [QUOTE]Agree.  This is why I referenced 2008.  Remember the SF game?  Constant 3rd and longs, where his new CBs and Safety would drop into zone after playing man/press coverage on guessed running downs. JT O'Sullivan converted tons of 3rd downs in that game and that was with Seymour and Vrabel here. The media constantly points to Seymour and Vrabel with the pass rush now an issue, where it was really fading in 2007 and definitley in 2008. But, no one said anything in the media because the media loved how Seymour and Vrabel gave them quotes. Look how awful their CBs were in 2008.  Deltha O'Neal, Lewis Sanders?  Even people like Slater and Wilhite played Safety!  It was AWFUL. The team went 11-5 because they could hide these issues, but no one expected them to be a legit team without Brady and that kind of a personnel issue on D. In 2010, that is sort of reversed. Now, they have some issues at DE/OLB and appeare to be very strong and deep in the secondary. I just think continuity is such a huge factor on the ability of BB or Patricia to have the confidence to call plays and scheme which helps a rush. I think we'll see far more zone and far more 4-3 D this year when the match ups call for it.
    Posted by russgriswold[/QUOTE]

    Safties play will be key this year but im encouraged and... we have a good proven corner on one side(locked up in his prime for good money) and lets see how the competition plays out on the other...

    people have clamored that we didnt make the big spash in FA to make a differnce..but when we were good in the past we got fa's that werent "stars" but turned out to be very good and filled an important role... people always look at the busts but never bring up the rodneys or the vrables as fa's that were really just considered avergage pickups but became key contributors... so we have gotten some nice draft picks but this year we targeted lewis, warren, and crumpler (and our own key fa's) im curious to see how these two guys really help the D with all the young bodies... none has missed a day of camp... low key pickups but could be big contibutors to this years success...6 days and counting...  i also like burgess and think he will come back but if not and we could get shoebel...teams could be in trouble


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman2. Show Patsman2's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    In Response to Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010:
    [QUOTE]Outside of the other topics as to why NE's D may good, mediocre or even bad, with everyone giving reasons as to why they feel a certain way.... I just want to revisit a quote from camp in 2005 from one, Chad Brown: "I have been in the league 13 years and when you add in HS and college I have had too many coaches to list....and let me tell you, with BB it was like I was learning a whole new game - techniques I never knew or even heard off - I wish I played for him much earlier in my career." Bill Belichick is the best coach in the NFL, if not in all of sports. His talents are many, but I don't think anyone is better at harnessing a player's skill set and channeling it into a focused role on a team, simplifying it down for the player. That said, his approach is so unique, creative and always changing. I fully expect an upgrade on defense this year because this team, quite simply, has the best defensive mind running it.              
    Posted by russgriswold[/QUOTE]

    His approach is unique, creative and always changing?  HUH????  He has been doing pretty much the same thing for 30 years.  What has changed are the PLAYERS and their talent level from year to year and team to team.  He didnt do anything different in NY (giants) then he did in Cleveland.  The difference in NY was he had the talented players to execute his plan.

    Same thing in NE, they had the talent in the SB years, and have fallen off with all the busts they drafted on D.  This defense will improve this year IF the young guys on D play better and improve.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    In Response to Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010 : His approach is unique, creative and always changing?  HUH????  He has been doing pretty much the same thing for 30 years.  What has changed are the PLAYERS and their talent level from year to year and team to team.  He didnt do anything different in NY (giants) then he did in Cleveland.  The difference in NY was he had the talented players to execute his plan. Same thing in NE, they had the talent in the SB years, and have fallen off with all the busts they drafted on D.  This defense will improve this year IF the young guys on D play better and improve.
    Posted by Patsman2[/QUOTE]

    BB is a football historian. He is constantly molding his coaching style and personnel from not only game to game but season to season. If you don't believe me just ask almost any coach in the league.

    "Same thing in NE, they had the talent in the SB years, and have fallen off with all the busts they drafted on D"

    The same talent that was under achieving in the Pete Carrol era? The same talent that was 5-11 with Drew Bledsoe and pretty good offense? The same talent that was widely referred to as "A bunch of no namers"? Good questions huh Budrick?

    Where have the Pats fallen off? They win their division almost every year. Would have won it going 11-5 with Matt Cassel at the helm if not for rare circumstances. I guess BB had nothing to do with that.

    Go Home buddy.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    I think that last years D was somewhat of an aberation and BB was not happy about it. Dan Pees was fading fast and not up to the challange. The new faces on D, Bodden, Butler, McGowan, Springs, Burgess, TBC ( he had been gone a few years and never a starter ), Guyton, Wright in for Seymour, Meri stepping in for a full time run, did I miss anything? AD zoning out the coaches....

    This is an excuse but the reality of that excuse is these guys were to slow to pick up complexity of the schemes BB would have liked to employ. This resulted in us being forced to run a more vanilla defensive system, and caused significant breakdowns mentaly in games that cost us..

    Despite all that we were still an effective top half of the league system overall.

    This year BB has jumped in to take a very active role in teaching these guys so they avoid the mental mistakes of last year. The above mentioned players are at least a second year into the system, and the ones who didnt cut it are gone.
    We have also added some rookie players with hopefull talent...Mayo another year off his injury...

    I expect the rush defense ( agree with above that sacks do not tell whole story ) will be better this year due to our ability to add complexity in blitz schemes ( from Saftey, ILB, and CB positions ) and also the added ability of the secondary to stay longer in coverage and buy the in the box guys a little bit more time to operate.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman2. Show Patsman2's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    In Response to Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010 : BB is a football historian. He is constantly molding his coaching style and personnel from not only game to game but season to season. If you don't believe me just ask almost any coach in the league. " Same thing in NE, they had the talent in the SB years, and have fallen off with all the busts they drafted on D" The same talent that was under achieving in the Pete Carrol era? The same talent that was 5-11 with Drew Bledsoe and pretty good offense? The same talent that was widely referred to as "A bunch of no namers"? Good questions huh Budrick? Where have the Pats fallen off? They win their division almost every year. Would have won it going 11-5 with Matt Cassel at the helm if not for rare circumstances. I guess BB had nothing to do with that. Go Home buddy.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    He is using the same basic defense and philosphy he has for 30 years. A tweak here or there but nothing radical.  You dont have to ask coaches around the league all you have to do is watch tapes of the games to see what he runs now and what he ran in NY and Cleveland.

    The major differences from year to year are the personal within the defense not the schemes themselves.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    In Response to Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010 : He is using the same basic defense and philosphy he has for 30 years. A tweak here or there but nothing radical.  You dont have to ask coaches around the league all you have to do is watch tapes of the games to see what he runs now and what he ran in NY and Cleveland. The major differences from year to year are the personal within the defense not the schemes themselves.
    Posted by Patsman2[/QUOTE]

    If by the "same basic defense" you mean... 3-4/4-3/nickel/dime/quarter/eight in the box/5-6/ 2 down linemen/zero down linemen/ man to man/zone/tampa/tampa 2/ then I guess your right. He is the best in the league at "changing" his game plan week to week in order to counter his opponents weapons. Not many intelligent football fans would argue this.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from lightningbrain. Show lightningbrain's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    I laughed when I read Mighty Patriotz' first post b/c I was already thinking that I would post that time would prove Rusty's prediction modest.
    Also, I think BB is a genius.  Seriously, I think he could probably walk in and improve just about any business.
    Still, I have to say something about our lack of personal stats from the SB players, just b/c Willie McGinest doesn't get enough credit and the NFL network still plays that top ten pass rushers ever show without him in it.  He is the all-time leading sacker in playoff history.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    In Response to Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010:
    [QUOTE]I laughed when I read Mighty Patriotz' first post b/c I was already thinking that I would post that time would prove Rusty's prediction modest. Also, I think BB is a genius.  Seriously, I think he could probably walk in and improve just about any business. Still, I have to say something about our lack of personal stats from the SB players, just b/c Willie McGinest doesn't get enough credit and the NFL network still plays that top ten pass rushers ever show without him in it.  He is the all-time leading sacker in playoff history.
    Posted by lightningbrain[/QUOTE]

    Yep I talk about that a lot. Willie was a bad man. If he hadn't battled injuries his entire career he would be a lock for the HOF. He should be anyway given his post season statistics and over all big plays.

    Quick story: My brother is a GM of a restaurant in Vegas and Willie Mac was at his bar having lunch. My bro brought his food to him and actually said the following statement, "I'm sorry to bother you sir but I am a die hard NE Patriot fan and I just wanted to thank you for the years of enjoyment and all the superbowls. If I had my way you would be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer!" Willie looked him in the eye and said, "Thanks boss that really means a lot" Willie Mcginest a man among men!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheFantasyBaron. Show TheFantasyBaron's posts

    Re: Why NE's Is a Top 10 D in 2010

    Don't you feel the reason why BB got the defenses he had in 2003 and 2004, etc, was not only because of the talent but because he was able to get them to buy into what his vision was overall, from week to week and during games?
    Posted by russgriswold[/QUOTE]

    No, there was a tremendous amount of talent on those teams. If he had those guys right now in their primes they'd make him and his schemes look good. Even BB can't polish a turd and in this case the guys can't stop teams in the redzone which used to be a hallmark of the Pats. Right now they've got it reversed doing well between the 20's and crapping out in the redzone on both sides of the ball. It used to be bend but don't break and now its bend AND break. Willy Mac, Bruschi, Washington, Law, Harrison and on and on. Yesh, they bought in week to week but BB could have probably asked them to do anything and they'd make it work. I'm starting to see more clearly over time that the championship years had some HOF players that weren't replaced.

    I'd like to agree with you Rusty but unless that front is the stingiest run defense in football this will be another tough year for the Pats with a middle of the pack ranking.
     

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