Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    I've been criticized by BassFishing (AKA Rusty) who accuses me of not contributing any substance to the forum. While this is not true, and I am a contributer to the forum, to appease him I will explain my thoughts on the undying question, "why did we lose the Super Bowl"?

    Well, to begin, I don't think the issue is cut and dry, black and white. I don't think it's fair to say outright, "the defense lost the game" or "the offense lost the game". 

    The fact of the matter is that football is a team sport. You have 22 unbelievable athletes warring with each other for 60 minutes. When you win, you win as a team. When you lose, you lose as a team.

    Basically where I'm going with this is that the TEAM lost. 

    If I remember correctly, the Giants fumbled the ball twice. Both times the ball bounced right into Giants' arms. That's just the luck of the draw. Unfortunately lady-luck was in New York's corner on that particular Sunday, and the ball bounced the other way. Nothing you can do about that.

    As for the offense. The offense certainly wasn't a horror show, but they didn't perform as they were expected to, and the offensive playcalling seemed to lack diversity at times. Brady played very well, and I won't hold him accountable for his receivers' drops, or for his INT. To win games, you have to make big plays. Brady gave Gronk a chance to make a play on the ball and unfortunately it didn't work out. I agree that it wasn't the smartest decision in that situation, but it was by no means a 'Favre' throw. Overall the offense was average -- things certainly could have been done better, but they moved the ball decently and scored a number of times.

    As for the defense. The defense played well considering how they had performed earlier in the season. They weren't shutdown, nor did they make any spectacular plays, but they played relatively well. No big plays or blown coverages, so I can't hold them accountable on that front. Would a turnover have been nice, sure -- but all things considered, they did well. Unfortunately this was lacking on the Giants's final drive of the game, but up until that point they hung in there.

    So to bring this all together, I feel as if the TEAM lost the game. The defense had an opportunity to stop the Giants and win the game. They didn't. On the other side of that coin, the offense had a chance to score and put the game out of reach and they didn't. To top it all off, lady-luck wasn't in our corner. Ultimately, when this team had an opportunity to make big plays at crucial points in the game, they didn't. You can blame exclusively the offense or defense. There's plenty of blame to go around, but to single out a single unit, or player for that matter, is ridiculous. The Giants made clutch plays, we didn't, and on that day they were the better TEAM. 

    You win as a team and you lose as a team. On that day, the TEAM lost.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    Who would dare say you don't contribute substance? Let me at 'em. Let me at 'em!

    But you forgot the part where the D lost the game at the end. You should include that.

    Oh, and, there was another fumble. You remember. The one that would have prevented a Giants' score but the D had a bush league too many men on the field penalty called that negated Moore's great strip? You should probably mention that too.

    BTW, watch out for using the luck thing. I'm sure Jints will pounce on that when he arrives. I don't cling to the bad luck excuse. The Giants beat our D for the win fair and square. Now, 2007, that was luck. And Asante dropping the Lombardi trophy of course.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmcintosh. Show andrewmcintosh's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    Pats lost the superbowl because the Giants were a more talented team that made big plays when it mattered.  It wasn't one play, or one player, as much as fans want it to be.  Pretty simple really, not fluke-y the way the 2007 game ended.  Our team got beat straight up, but I'm very excited about the prospects to avenge that loss this upcoming season.....The Pats should be up there with the elite.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    Not this again.

    Welker dropped a catchable ball - then they lost.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    I've already moved on. The 2011-12 season is in the books, just focused on next season. Like our chances of making it back.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    In Response to Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.:
    [QUOTE]I've been criticized by BassFishing (AKA Rusty) who accuses me of not contributing any substance to the forum. While this is not true, and I am a contributer to the forum, to appease him I will explain my thoughts on the undying question, "why did we lose the Super Bowl"? Well, to begin, I don't think the issue is cut and dry, black and white. I don't think it's fair to say outright, "the defense lost the game" or "the offense lost the game".  The fact of the matter is that football is a team sport. You have 22 unbelievable athletes warring with each other for 60 minutes. When you win, you win as a team. When you lose, you lose as a team. Basically where I'm going with this is that the TEAM lost.  If I remember correctly, the Giants fumbled the ball twice. Both times the ball bounced right into Giants' arms. That's just the luck of the draw. Unfortunately lady-luck was in New York's corner on that particular Sunday, and the ball bounced the other way. Nothing you can do about that. As for the offense. The offense certainly wasn't a horror show, but they didn't perform as they were expected to, and the offensive playcalling seemed to lack diversity at times. Brady played very well, and I won't hold him accountable for his receivers' drops, or for his INT. To win games, you have to make big plays. Brady gave Gronk a chance to make a play on the ball and unfortunately it didn't work out. I agree that it wasn't the smartest decision in that situation, but it was by no means a 'Favre' throw. Overall the offense was average -- things certainly could have been done better, but they moved the ball decently and scored a number of times. As for the defense. The defense played well considering how they had performed earlier in the season. They weren't shutdown, nor did they make any spectacular plays, but they played relatively well. No big plays or blown coverages, so I can't hold them accountable on that front. Would a turnover have been nice, sure -- but all things considered, they did well. Unfortunately this was lacking on the Giants's final drive of the game, but up until that point they hung in there. So to bring this all together, I feel as if the TEAM  lost the game. The defense had an opportunity to stop the Giants and win the game. They didn't. On the other side of that coin, the offense had a chance to score and put the game out of reach and they didn't. To top it all off, lady-luck wasn't in our corner. Ultimately, when this team had an opportunity to make big plays at crucial points in the game, they didn't. You can blame exclusively the offense or defense. There's plenty of blame to go around, but to single out a single unit, or player for that matter, is ridiculous. The Giants made clutch plays, we didn't, and on that day they were the better TEAM.  You win as a team and you lose as a team. On that day, the TEAM lost.
    Posted by vertigho[/QUOTE]


    I agree, they lost in all phases of the game. Turnovers and poor execution on offense leading to the final 25 minutes without scoring a point. The defense played well up until the last Giants drive but gave up some big plays to set up their final score. Special teams was poor on kick returns and the Giants punter did a great job in pinning the offense inside the 10 yard line while Mesko couldn't do the same. The coaching  takes some of the blame as well. The team lost the game, not Brady, not the defense, not the coach, all of them combined lost the game. Every guy in that locker room would say the same.

    The Giants deserve credit, they played better, were the better team, and made the plays when they had to. It sucks losing the super bowl, especially one so close but all you can do is try and improve on next season. It looks like thats what they are going to do too. I've moved on to next season.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    In Response to Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl. : only thing I will continue to disagree with babe is this: even if the the tyree play was lucky, that doesn't take into account two important facts: one, the Giants front line (and lb's and even safety once) terrorized Brady all day, not only the 5 sacks but the 10 other knock downs right after he got rid of the ball. Holding the most prolific O in NFL history to 14 pts is not luck. Two, on that last drive, the Giants went 83 yds in 2:00 and they converted 4 3rd and longs (only one was tyree's catch-the other three were 11, 12, and 15 yds). And Samuel's ball WAS catchable but not "right to him" ie: in his hands, in the numbers...he had to jump and extend and mistimed it. To be fair you have to look at the whole game and other plays before claiming "luck" was the only thing. btw,as I've always said from that night on, the 07 Pats are the best team to not win a SB and better than probably half or more that did
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

    The Giants played very well in both games and deserved to win them both. Manning was clutch in both games as was the Giants defense and special teams. You can call lots of plays lucky on any team  but in the end the Giants made the plays and won the game. In both games the Giants D shut down the Patriots "high powered" passing games and made Brady look very ordinary. 

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    In Response to Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl. : only thing I will continue to disagree with babe is this: even if the the tyree play was lucky, that doesn't take into account two important facts: one, the Giants front line (and lb's and even safety once) terrorized Brady all day, not only the 5 sacks but the 10 other knock downs right after he got rid of the ball. Holding the most prolific O in NFL history to 14 pts is not luck. Two, on that last drive, the Giants went 83 yds in 2:00 and they converted 4 3rd and longs (only one was tyree's catch-the other three were 11, 12, and 15 yds). And Samuel's ball WAS catchable but not "right to him" ie: in his hands, in the numbers...he had to jump and extend and mistimed it. To be fair you have to look at the whole game and other plays before claiming "luck" was the only thing. btw,as I've always said from that night on, the 07 Pats are the best team to not win a SB and better than probably half or more that did
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]


    The Giants D absolutely played great in the '07 SB. If not for that they would have been beaten handily.

    Lots of credit for a gutsy win by them. But the Tyree catch was a fluke. maybe or maybe not that would have decided the game if he didn't get it. I like the Pats' chances if he doesn't.

    Now, on Asante, no way I agree. I have watched that vid manys the time. He does jump but it hits him squarely in both hands and he just flubs it high. Routine, no. But any pro that can't hold onto that ball for a SB win is a chump. Period. Eli got away with losing a SB right then and there. Don't get me started on Samuel.

    As for Eli, he has been up and down. A lot like BR in that regard. But he has slowly gotten better and better. He's one of those mountain climber types. He just keeps climbing even if he slips back a few notches here and there. Frankly, I like him a lot more than his bro as a person. I would put him now in the second tier of elites. He has earned that. You might put him higher.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    The Patriots were good enough to win but didn't. On to next year.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    In Response to Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl. : only thing I will continue to disagree with babe is this: even if the the tyree play was lucky, that doesn't take into account two important facts: one, the Giants front line (and lb's and even safety once) terrorized Brady all day, not only the 5 sacks but the 10 other knock downs right after he got rid of the ball. Holding the most prolific O in NFL history to 14 pts is not luck. Two, on that last drive, the Giants went 83 yds in 2:00 and they converted 4 3rd and longs (only one was tyree's catch-the other three were 11, 12, and 15 yds). And Samuel's ball WAS catchable but not "right to him" ie: in his hands, in the numbers...he had to jump and extend and mistimed it. To be fair you have to look at the whole game and other plays before claiming "luck" was the only thing. btw,as I've always said from that night on, the 07 Pats are the best team to not win a SB and better than probably half or more that did
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

    Jints.... luck is part of every championship.

    The Giants are a great team. 

    Don't take those comments up there personally. The Giants did get a couple lucky bounces ... but most Champions do ... at least since the mid 1990's when teams (thankfully) stopped having blowout snooze fests. 

    You are right ... the Giants front line on defense is absolutely fearsome. And they earned their Lombardis in two, absolutely CLASSIC, contests. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    In our last 2 SB's we have had 2 of the highest scoring offense's in NFL history. We have scored 15.5 ppg in said SB's.

    We have thrown the ball 90 times and ran the ball 35 times.

    We have had no bAlance and it is the reason we have lost both SB's.

    Our defense has let up 17 and 19 points in the last 2 SB's that we lost, which would be good for a top 10 defense most years in this league.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    In Response to Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.:
    [QUOTE]In our last 2 SB's we have had 2 of the highest scoring offense's in NFL history. We have scored 15.5 ppg in said SB's. We have thrown the ball 90 times and ran the ball 35 times. We have had no bAlance and it is the reason we have lost both SB's. Our defense has let up 17 and 19 points in the last 2 SB's that we lost, which would be good for a top 10 defense most years in this league.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    That's too simplistic of a way to look at the result in my opinion.

    Again, Super Bowls are going to be tough, hard fought games. Offenses tend to struggle more because of nerves and the fact that defenses have a knack for stepping up in the playoffs. 

    Games between two mentally tough opponents, like the Pats and Giants are going to go down to the wire. There are going to be crucial situations in the game and generally the team that capitalizes in these situations and makes clutch plays, is the team that wins.

    You can't blame the offense exclusively, nor can you blame the defense exclusively. 

    The offense had an opportunity to end the game, as did the defense. Neither unit came through when they had to. The TEAM didn't come through when they had to and that's why we lost.

    Gotta give the Giants credit. Their TEAM made phenomenal plays to win the game, and our TEAM didn't.

    Both the offense and defense had the opportunity to win the game and they didn't. You can't blame one or the other, and using the argument, "well, the offense is supposed to be good, so therefore their failure carries more blame" doesn't work. Forget the regular season when you enter the Super Bowl. Forget what unit is supposed to be better/stronger. The TEAM, offense and defense, has to make plays to win the game, and neither unit did. The TEAM lost.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    I respect your opinion Vert, and agree it is tough to blame one side or the other. I just can;t help thinking that a defense that was getting torched in the regular season stepped up very well in the post season, made some incredible plays(ravens game and Giants) we were hitting guys like the dynasty defense used to imo.

    While our bread and butter(the offense) failed yet again. I don't blame Brady like Rusty likes to, I blame the lack of real offensive coaching. we can't coach our way out of tough games so we fall back on our crutch Tom Brady and hope he can carry us. It is a poor offensive philosophy imo.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    That I agree with. Our offensive play-calling lacked any kind of diversity. I understand that a team has some core schemes and tendencies, but the route combinations, and our running plays all looked very similar, and when we'd call a running play or passing play began to become too easy to predict.

    I hope McDaniels will infuse some life into this offense. I'm excited to see what he will do with Gronk, Hernandez, and Ridley. We've already seen what he can do with Tom Teriffic, Welker and Lloyd.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    In Response to Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.:
    [QUOTE]I respect your opinion Vert, and agree it is tough to blame one side or the other. I just can;t help thinking that a defense that was getting torched in the regular season stepped up very well in the post season, made some incredible plays(ravens game and Giants) we were hitting guys like the dynasty defense used to imo. While our bread and butter(the offense) failed yet again. I don't blame Brady like Rusty likes to, I blame the lack of real offensive coaching. we can't coach our way out of tough games so we fall back on our crutch Tom Brady and hope he can carry us. It is a poor offensive philosophy imo.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Now now. Stop bashing the greatest coach in the game, troll.

    The D lost the game at the end or we would have won the Lombardi. Focus on that.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    In Response to Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.:
    [QUOTE]In our last 2 SB's we have had 2 of the highest scoring offense's in NFL history. We have scored 15.5 ppg in said SB's. We have thrown the ball 90 times and ran the ball 35 times. We have had no bAlance and it is the reason we have lost both SB's. Our defense has let up 17 and 19 points in the last 2 SB's that we lost, which would be good for a top 10 defense most years in this league.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    This is shocking. Are you telling us we should run more? Have you ever said this before? Sounds like you question BB's coaching decisions. Rather trollish of you.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    The difference in the super bowl for the proponents of a pass happy offense...

    Brady and Eli had almost the same number of passes, Brady threw one more at 41.

    Both teams had nearly the same amount of penalties, Pats had one more to make it 5.  One offensive penalty gave the Giant's 2 points.

    The Giants ran the ball 9 times more than the Pats did, giving them 8 more possessions because they were converting 5 more first downs.  

    It was a simple time of possession game plan that required a methodical grinding out of first downs, using both the running game and a focus on situational passing; a high third down conversion rate under duress, something this offense doesn't possess.  

    It was originally known as the Erhardt-Perkin's offensive system and it is an insult to the coach who just died to ignore what impact it had on the NFL as a whole and teams like the Giants who still use it to this day with great success.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.


    Well, we've gone over this 8 million times, but the reasons we lost were:

    1. Giants executed well on both offense and defense (let's not forget there was another team involved!)
    2. Our defense was unable to get the Giants off the field--the inability to consistently stop the drives of opposing offenses was a problem all year for the Pats; it continued to be a problem in the Super Bowl.
    3. Our offense stalled on key drives; this is a sporadic problem for the Pats, which stems from the fact that we have too few top-quality offensive skills players around Brady and we rely too heavily on Welker and Gronk. With Gronk injured the problem was exacerbated in the Super Bowl.  There is a debate whether this problem stems from the talent on the team, the coaching and game planning, or Brady's judgment.  I lean toward talent being the problem, but if you want to blame the coaches (not calling enough runs or whatever) or Brady (choosing to throw when he could hand the ball off or making poor decisions when he does throw), that's fine.  Not going to argue because no one is ever going to be convinced--obviously.  I think we all agree that more diversity in the offense would help, however it's accomplished.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from stegall85. Show stegall85's posts

    Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.

    In Response to Re: Why We Lost in the Super Bowl.:
    [QUOTE]Well, we've gone over this 8 million times, but the reasons we lost were: 1. Giants executed well on both offense and defense (let's not forget there was another team involved!) 2. Our defense was unable to get the Giants off the field--the inability to consistently stop the drives of opposing offenses was a problem all year for the Pats; it continued to be a problem in the Super Bowl. 3. Our offense stalled on key drives; this is a sporadic problem for the Pats, which stems from the fact that we have too few top-quality offensive skills players around Brady and we rely too heavily on Welker and Gronk. With Gronk injured the problem was exacerbated in the Super Bowl.  There is a debate whether this problem stems from the talent on the team, the coaching and game planning, or Brady's judgment.  I lean toward talent being the problem, but if you want to blame the coaches (not calling enough runs or whatever) or Brady (choosing to throw when he could hand the ball off or making poor decisions when he does throw), that's fine.  Not going to argue because no one is ever going to be convinced--obviously.  I think we all agree that more diversity in the offense would help, however it's accomplished.
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
    ^ This.

    That's about as good of an objective summary as could be hoped for in a post not rivaling War and Peace. The good news is they already have established better depth at the offensive skill positions and this sets up as an exciting draft for the Pats.

    Off topic are you optimistic for the Double Blue this year? Nice pick-up getting Ricky Ray.
     

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